W116 Crayfords around the world

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 9:19 am

Received in the post the latest Crayview magazine (issue #81, Nov '07)) - published by the Crayford Convertible Car Club in the UK.

Of its 30 pages (including covers), seven are dedicated to the M-B 116 estates. Now that's serious coverage!

There are, unfortunately, quite a few errors of fact, including John Green's location being stated as Perth (!), but great to have the coverage regardless.

Here is a scan of one page giving a table of all known 116 Crayford estates. As it was published prior to JG's acquisition of the 450SEL recently from the Mornington Peninsular, that vehicle is not listed; and Kermit is still listed as owned by "Crayford" of former Illawarra (in)fame.

Look at the prices at the bottom of the table; a mere 280SE such as mine cost more than 2.5 convertible Cortinas, and a 450SEL 6.9 wagon cost 5.5 CCs (or somewhat more than two 280SEs). Sheesh!

(Source: Crayview, issue #81, Nov 2007, p. 26, published by Crayford Convertible Car Club)

PS: Apologies if you have to pan across to see the whole table. Its original - and scanned - size is A5, and in an identical thread on the W116.org forum http://forum.w116.org/test-drive/w116-c ... e-world/0/ it appears as it should at a sensible size.

Post by **arkenstone** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 1:53 pm

Rolf Harris's car?

Eeew!

I saw Kennett's 6.9 at the MBCV meeting on Monday though...

Pure awesome.

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 2:37 pm

arkenstone wrote:Rolf Harris's car?
Eeew!

Careful now, Ark - that my car you're "Eeew-ing" at! :lol:

Right now I'm in the middle of scanning a pile of Crayford stuff. Stand by for a flurry of further posts.

Post by **arkenstone** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 3:41 pm

Did it come with a wobble board?

:shock: :P

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 4:13 pm

arkenstone wrote:Did it come with a wobble board?

:shock: :P

Sure did! ("Sure can"?) :D

The piece of hardboard that covers the spare tyre in the sedan boot covered the petrol tank in der Rolfwagen and is just the right size for a wobble board - although perhaps a tad thicker than it ought to be for getting the right pitch. :lol:

Post by **arkenstone** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 4:20 pm

Hahaha :)

First tiem I've laughed out loud all day :)

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:05 pm

arkenstone wrote:Hahaha :)

First tiem I've laughed out loud all day :)

Glad to have been of service! :lol:

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:22 pm

Okay, folks - as promised, a swag of Crayford material.

Most of these materials are from Crayview magazine, the official organ of the Crayford Convertible Car Club based in the UK. Unless otherwise acknowledged, all scanned text and photos by Barry Priestman, Chairman and magazine Editor.

(from Motor magazine)

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:23 pm

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:23 pm

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:24 pm

Here are some non-W116 Crayford estates - including one gorgeous (to my eye, at least) W109 and one aesthetically challenged "Dachshund" - the naming of which offended the parent company (DB) as they didn't like one of their vehicles - no matter how modified - referred to as a dog!

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:25 pm

Mostly, Crayford were famous for beheading cars - such as the Cortina - and turning them into ragtops.

Here is a rather neat looking W123 "St Tropez" by them.

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:26 pm

And Crayford also had an armouring division. Here is their brochure.

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Wed 06 Feb, 2008 5:26 pm

Now where did my afternoon disappear to? :? :lol:

Post by **kaiser** » Thu 07 Feb, 2008 1:07 pm

Nice info Gordon, (Dad even gets a mention!)

(The red 6.3 is a photoshop job though)

That is the original AMG 6.3, which is most definitely a sedan

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Thu 07 Feb, 2008 1:25 pm

kaiser wrote: [...] (The red 6.3 is a photoshop job though)
That is the original AMG 6.3, which is most definitely a sedan

I suspected as much and pulled if from my existing resources (it's not in Crayview), but it nicely illustrates - from a better angle - the real one that's only in greyscale.

Yup - your dad gets a mention. His original letter to Barry Priestmann (to whom he was referred by "Mr Crayford" himself - David McMullan) from a few years ago is also reproduced on a page of the Crayview.

If you or your dad would like copies of this 7-page special (at print resolution rather than screen as linked here), send me a PM and I'll get them to you / him.

Gordon

PS: I never received all the paperwork from that "certain person" whose name we shan't mention; it appears they have cut all ties with this forum and W116.org and done a bunk. Pity, but them's the breaks. :roll:

Post by **Des** » Sun 17 Feb, 2008 5:22 pm

Post by **John Green** » Sun 17 Feb, 2008 8:14 pm

Pictures 1,3,4,7,8,9,11 and 12 are not crayfords, have a look at the tailgate, totally differant, all but 11 are most likly from the Norddeutsche Karosseriefabrik. Picture 11 is a bit of a mystery? There are a few there that are not on the oficial register, for example the lt blue 450SEL and the red whatever it is in US spec trim. There did the pictures of the red and blue cars come from?

Post by **Des** » Sun 17 Feb, 2008 8:25 pm

John Green wrote:There did the pictures of the red and blue cars come from?

Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread with non-crayfords,

came from here:

http://nast-sonderfahrzeuge.de/MB-Exote ... order=time

my German is fairly poor so maybe the text reveals more about the cars

Post by **John Green** » Thu 20 Mar, 2008 8:07 pm

Have met with the king of Caryford a Mr Barry Priestman who is the President of the Crayford car club. He is mainly into Crayfords other products and amongst his colection are the last car that Crayford ever made which is a Two door Cortina, a V4 Ford Corsair Convertable and one of the Heinz 57 convertables. He also has a very sad looking W116 Crayford wagon, that he says one car will be restored.

IMG_8056.JPG

IMG_8062.JPG

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Thu 20 Mar, 2008 8:42 pm

John: Many thanks for that pic of Barry P's Crayford. I makes me feel so much better about my Rolfwagen! :D

BTW: Last weekend I unexpectedly scored four perfect doors for der Rolfwagen - free of charge; all they need is a colour change. They even have manual window cranks - as did my Crayford before someone did a godawful botch-up of trying to electrify the front-door windows.

Don't suppose Barry had any spare rear-side window glasses lying around looking for a new home, did he? :roll:

Post by **John Green** » Fri 21 Mar, 2008 3:38 am

Don't suppose Barry had any spare rear-side window glasses lying around looking for a new home, did he?

No sorry, he did suggest that from time to time a Granada come up on UK ebay. Maybe you should have a look on there to see if one comes up as parts car and then try and convince whoever buys it to part with the rear windows.....

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Fri 21 Mar, 2008 8:33 am

John Green wrote: No sorry, he did suggest that from time to time a Granada come up on UK ebay. Maybe you should have a look on there to see if one comes up as parts car and then try and convince whoever buys it to part with the rear windows.....

Been doing that for months (it's one of my automatic searches). No luck yet, but patience, I'm told, is a virtue. :D

Post by **Des** » Mon 24 Mar, 2008 8:39 pm

This one looks nice

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Mon 24 Mar, 2008 10:04 pm

Ooh, Des - is that the Crayford formerly known as Kermit (resident of the NSW southern highlands)? Surely there couldn't be two in that colour - though it does appear in rather better bodily condition than other photos of Kermit would indicate.

Post by **Des** » Mon 24 Mar, 2008 10:05 pm

OzBenzHead wrote:Ooh, Des - is that the Crayford formerly known as Kermit (resident of the NSW southern highlands)? Surely there couldn't be two in that colour - though it does appear in rather better bodily condition than other photos of Kermit would indicate.

I'm unsure sorry, I do remember Caroline? on the w116 website but unsure if it is the same car

Post by **116Benz** » Tue 25 Mar, 2008 12:14 am

There coudnt be 2? Could there? As much as the Kermit (or Kermit 2) wagen looks great in that pic, OBH, Der Rolfwagen will look awesome when he's finished too!

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Thu 27 Mar, 2008 8:05 pm

Des wrote:This one looks nice

Must be my former 'Kermit' - now renamed Wasabi - but where did you get that photo? The paint on that side in that view would look ok, it is the other side that has several different shades of green.
Anyway, progress so far; when bought it had, of course, only enough petrol to get to the nearest servo, and after being told tales of woe regarding the previous owner's efforts with petrol tank out/ pump replaced/ filter etc, and still being reluctant to start, (a competent body man but not much of a mechanic?) I was not surprised to hear a big suck as I undid the petrol cap. Hello, a partial vacuum in the tank? That would make starting a problem, and eventually stuff the pump.
Anyway, it had a locking cap, presumably not original, possibly fitted at whatever time the central locking packed up?
So I drilled a 1mm hole in said cap, and have had no problems since, but here is my first question; how do the fuel tanks breathe on these, through the cap, or should there be another breather pipe fitted somewhere?
While I am on a roll with W116 questions, where are the drains located? I am familiar with the persistant (weekly, if not daily) need to clear drains on W123s, but the arrangement of the inner front wings is not the same on these. Also any at the rear?
Also, can anyone confirm which parts from a W123 self-levelling rear suspension ( I have a donor 1980 280E sedan ) will fit a 1975 W116 280SE sedan (it was a sedan before Crayford got it...). This one has had the system disconnected and replaced by standard dampers and coil springs. I believe the springs for the self-levelling system were different too?
Anyone know? Or specs required? Or if they are available from Pedders or KingSprings. If not, anyone know of any wreckers who may have them?
And original - or as close as I can get - headlining material? I will try to take a photo at the weekend, as I do not even know if it was original M-B fabric, or an alternate sourced by Crayford in the UK.
On another subject, I will try to get to the M-B club show & shine at Five Dock NSW on the 6th, but will probably be in my 450SLC, (hope the Crayford is finished and ready for show next year) so if anyone wants to say 'Hi', let me know.
Lastly, as a result of a computer crash last week, and no, I did not have everything backed up on disc, I have lost all previous correspondence, so anyone who had been in touch please email me again so I have addresses, particularly OzBenzHead (Doug?) , John Green , Barry Priestman and anyone else interested.
I will try to - weather permitting - take, and upload some more photos at the weekend.
Chris Martin

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Thu 27 Mar, 2008 8:17 pm

116Benz wrote:There coudnt be 2? Could there? As much as the Kermit (or Kermit 2) wagen looks great in that pic, OBH, Der Rolfwagen will look awesome when he's finished too!

Certainly the same car, anyone recognise the trade plates? John Green did advise me of some known history, but the plates could date the photo. Apart from lack of rear wiper it looks exactly the same as when I bought it. The lack of passenger side door mirror has since been rectified with a spare, and note also, those alloy wheels are not the same as on my other cars, and I believe, not original, they have the name INTRA cast in the centre.
Any other known history always eagerly sought.........
GreaseMonkey
aka
Chris Martin

c362_1.jpg

Post by **Des** » Thu 27 Mar, 2008 8:55 pm

Picture came from a german forum in a thread with other wagon pictures,

Re the drain holes, you may find the workshop information on this site useful

http://www.w116.org/library

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Sat 29 Mar, 2008 8:07 pm

Thanks for the link Des, useful to know, but no info on drain holes though. Never mind, I can get it on a hoist at my local M-B specialist and he can show me. Still need info on correct spec for rear coil springs for W116 280SE with SLS, or where I can get a pair if anyone knows.
Thanks,
Chris M.

25e7_1.jpg

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Sat 05 Apr, 2008 10:20 am

arkenstone wrote:Did it come with a wobble board?

:shock: :P

Coincidentally, Rolf wobble boards were sold commercially in the '60s or '70s and my wife picked one up on ebay when we were in U.K. a few years back as she is a big fan of Rolf's art.
It's still around here somewhere, I'll post a jpeg if and when I find it, maybe you can get it printed and pasted onto a piece of hardboard as the ultimate accessory for your wagon?
Talking of which, maybe you should rename your Crayford "Can you tell what it is yet?"
I suppose the show & shine at Five Dock tomorrow is too far for you, but maybe we should try to get the Crayfords together if they do it again next year?

Chris M.

597d_1.jpg

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Sat 05 Apr, 2008 11:08 pm

GreaseMonkey wrote:
arkenstone wrote:Did it come with a wobble board?
:shock: :P
Coincidentally, Rolf wobble boards were sold commercially in the '60s or '70s and my wife picked one up on ebay [...] I'll post a jpeg if and when I find it, maybe you can get it printed and pasted onto a piece of hardboard as the ultimate accessory for your wagon? [...]

Oh yes, please. :lol: I've often joked with people that it came with a w/b, which is the piece of hardboard that covers the floor (not dissimilar to that which covers the spare wheel in a 116 sedan).

I also have friends keeping eyes peeled at markets and junk shops for Rolf Harris memorabilia - such as record jackets (for 33.3 rpm vinyls and 45 rpm singles).

Post by **John Green** » Sun 06 Apr, 2008 8:28 am

The picture with the mystery trade plate was taken by Richard Simons from the now closed down "Oldtimer Center". The story of his ownership is a bit sad. He traded it and then for some reason just left it out in the open for a long time. The condition dropped off and then in the end I brought it off him.

Will contact you separately about the rear springs, are back at work tomorrow.

Post by **Des** » Mon 07 Apr, 2008 8:22 pm

A few more pictures, I think this blue car is the same as the one I posted a picture of earlier:

Unknown car, from ebay

A non crayford estate,

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Mon 07 Apr, 2008 8:54 pm

Des wrote: A non crayford estate,

I believe that one belongs to John Olsen of SL Market (http://www.slmarket.com) and is reputedly the only W116 wagon built to order of the M-B factory. The conversion was done by Pollmann Karosserie who used to do specials for M-B Germany. It is a 450SEL 6.9, and was built for the then top dog of MBUSA (I'm not sure if that was John O or someone else).

Of all the dozen or so variants on a W116 wagon, I think that Pollmann jobbie is the neatest adaptation. There is at least one other Pollmann W116, in white or a light colour, but I've lost the photo.

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:09 pm

Yet more goodies!
The blue one is a LHD 450SEL Crayford, and I guess from the text in the photo was one of two known to be at Meilenwerk in Berlin for restoration. Looks nice, we need to get some links with the German M=B clubs to keep track of these.
The brown one at the bottom looks like another Pollmann conversion, but the small picture of an ebay find with US spec bumpers is a mystery...
anyone know?

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:17 pm

Having enlarged the photo of the 'ebay' find and had a better look, it is very similar to a Crayford, certainly the tailgate and the roofline, but the side window trim is slightly different. May I hazard a guess it could be one of the so-called Crayfords built under licence in the USA? By whom, or where? Any more evidence, photos or ideas?

Post by **Des** » Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:23 pm

Another little snippet:

From the Aug. 1978 Road & Track Classifieds...

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:35 pm

GreaseMonkey wrote:Having enlarged the photo of the 'ebay' find and had a better look, it is very similar to a Crayford, certainly the tailgate and the roofline, but the side window trim is slightly different. May I hazard a guess it could be one of the so-called Crayfords built under licence in the USA? By whom, or where? Any more evidence, photos or ideas?

I believe that Sean McMullan, son of "Mr Crayford", had a pale metallic blue one; it was built under licence by either Harpers of Detroit or Hooper & Hooper of Californicatia. Perhaps it was his?

I think Sean's was eventually sold to someone in Germany, who took it back there for restoration.

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Mon 07 Apr, 2008 9:43 pm

And having another look at the two blue ones apparently in Germany, which you suggest may be the same car, they do have some differences; the earlier photo has something covering the roof which may have been protection for a leaking sunroof? ( a guess ) but the car in the other photo has no sunroof, the tyres change from white stripe to all black, and in the earlier photo the rear side windows are missing too. This is getting complicated........my brain hurts..........can't we stick to simple things like beer and footy?

But..
the same building in the same street, so maybe the one became the other, windows out for a repaint, and a new set of tyres to finish the resto.

That's it. I'm off, G'night!

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Mon 29 Jun, 2009 3:31 pm

Crayford-Benz updates:

For those interested in these strange, customised Benzes, I'm in the middle of uploading the latest updates to http://www.crayford-benz.org. The upload process is deadly slow, so you might find the site unavailable for a short while. It should be up and running again no later than Tuesday the 30th.

There are numerous updates, including:

* another (vague) St Tropez -- making two known (sort-of)

* another W116 wagon -- allegedly in St Croix, US Virgin Islands (but it's an ex-UK, RHD example)

* two changes of ownership -- a W114 wagon (moved from the UK to DE) and a W116 wagon

* about 20 new photos

* some new ownership and restoration stories, including one owner's blog (external to site), and correspondence from the Rolf Harris camp (thanks, Chris)

* updated registry and world map

* new links.

I've had numerous contacts from interested parties all over: France, Belgium, Germany, Finland, UK, US, Oz ... . For a very small speciality range of vehicles, these conversions seem to attract a lot of interest (and the market values aren't doing too poorly, either).

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Mon 29 Jun, 2009 5:55 pm

Well, the complete re-upload of the site went faster than expected: it's up! 8)

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Tue 30 Jun, 2009 11:34 am

Warning: if you do not see "new!" stickers on some pages of my updated site (try, e.g., the History page), empty your browser's cache, delete its history, and reload the site. I've found that Firefox's cache is particularly tenacious, and I had to repeat the exercise twice to successfully clear old stuff and get the new material to appear.

Post by **m48pro69** » Sat 05 Sep, 2009 12:20 am

If anybody is interested there is a crayford for sale on ebay as of the 3rd of September

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Sat 05 Sep, 2009 9:31 am

m48pro69 wrote:If anybody is interested there is a crayford for sale on ebay as of the 3rd of September

The kermit-green one?

That belongs to Grease Monkey a.k.a. Chris M who posts here frequently. See this post: http://www.ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8717.

Post by **GreaseMonkey** » Sun 27 Sep, 2009 7:39 am

Yep,
and I didn't get a serious offer, so I still have it, very glad too!
I still need to sell one car, as I need the space, and it may yet be the SLC as it gets used least,
but I suspect in the current market I will not get the price that one of the best deserves, so it is most likely the W123 280E that goes, I will post details here soon, and maybe list it on ebay, but if anyone wants a dark blue '84 for offers around $2k let me know.
Meanwhile, I had to move a lot of old junk from a storage unit recently and made a few trips in the Crayford.
The first time I really loaded it since refitting the self-levelling and I was impressed, it drove the same loaded or unloaded.
Next job is to wire in the trailer plug so I can use it to tow my Model T.
The ongoing restoration continues, as now it is all good mechanically and I will tackle the minor problems like central locking, clock not working etc in the coming weeks, I only need to source the side window rubbers and I can go ahead with the strip down for a respray, but I am leaning toward Icon Gold with the parchment seats, new brown carpets right through and tinted glass.
More news as it happens etc,
Chris M.

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Sun 27 Sep, 2009 10:31 am

Chris: I'm pleased to learn that the Crayford might yet remain in your hands.

I had an email t'other day from a chap in WA whose dad used to own a blue -- later silver -- Crayford 116. Sounds like it might be the one rotting away at Mt Barker. My correspondent has offered to chase up the car's records from his dad (a former M-B dealer, now an independent). Stay tuned!

Post by **Mercmad** » Sun 27 Sep, 2009 10:49 am

OzBenzHead wrote:Chris: I'm pleased to learn that the Crayford might yet remain in your hands.

I had an email t'other day from a chap in WA whose dad used to own a blue -- later silver -- Crayford 116. Sounds like it might be the one rotting away at Mt Barker. My correspondent has offered to chase up the car's records from his dad (a former M-B dealer, now an independent). Stay tuned!

That was on ebay about 5 or 6 years ago. I thought about buying it but the the freight to Brisbane put me off.

Post by **OzBenzHead** » Sun 27 Sep, 2009 11:04 am

Mercmad wrote:[...] That was on ebay about 5 or 6 years ago. I thought about buying it but the the freight to Brisbane put me off.

Yep -- that's the one I'm thinking of. I thought I'd kept a screen shot of the ad, but can't find it (probably lost in a major storage crash a couple of years ago).