Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

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RavzSa
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Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by RavzSa » Sun 12 May, 2019 6:04 am

Hi,

So today I finally got down to replacing my front shocks and mountings.

After all was installed I headed out for a test drive and about 10 minutes into the drive I started to hear a loud scraping noise front from the front right. Upon inspection I noticed a scour line on the inside of the front right wheel.

It appears that the wheel was rubbing against the brake caliper as I found scratch marks on the caliper with what looks like alloy grinds.

I placed the rim back onto the hub and there's at least a 20mm clearance between the caliper and wheel:dontknow:

When I spin the rim on the hub it spins freely and smooth until its at nearly stopping and then you hear a distinct grinding noise. Is this normal?

BTW I checked the wheel for movement by moving the wheel back and forth at the 12 and 6 and 3 and 9 position, and all felt firm with no play.

What could be the cause rim grinding against the caliper?
w124 1993 220E - ADB1240226B970861

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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by Ivanerrol » Sun 12 May, 2019 9:31 am

Did you remove the spring doing the job?
If you did, was the spring rubber replaced?
Did you get the spring aligned in place?
How are the control arm bushings?

Strut replacement requires wheel alignment.
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AMG
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by AMG » Sun 12 May, 2019 9:43 am

Possibilities are endless...
You haven't given enough detail for us to know what you've done or what steps you took.
check:
are your wheels factory MB or aftermarket?
check your bolts are tight, check the correct bolts have been used in the correct locations.
then check if the following issues exist:
1. incorrect diameter wheel is fitted.
2. incorrect offset wheels fitted
3. brake calliper bolts loose/missing
4. balljoint broken / LCA bent / swaybar bushes not correctly fitted and tightened
5. damper strut installed incorrectly.
6. service procedure in factory workshop manual not correctly followed.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Bartman4800
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by Bartman4800 » Sun 12 May, 2019 10:43 am

Is it possible the grinding marks were already there from someone else’s mishap, and you have a noisy wheel bearing now that you hear?
Spin the wheel, if you can feel it when touching the spring or other suspension component, your wheel bearings need replacement.

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by John Green » Sun 12 May, 2019 1:42 pm

RavzSa wrote:
Sun 12 May, 2019 6:04 am
Hi,

So today I finally got down to replacing my front shocks and mountings.

After all was installed I headed out for a test drive and about 10 minutes into the drive I started to hear a loud scraping noise front from the front right. Upon inspection I noticed a scour line on the inside of the front right wheel.

It appears that the wheel was rubbing against the brake caliper as I found scratch marks on the caliper with what looks like alloy grinds.

I placed the rim back onto the hub and there's at least a 20mm clearance between the caliper and wheel:dontknow:
What JoeB and othjer siad, 20mm gap to no gap and possibly back again is very odd. The scratch marks on the calliper, they look super fresh or maybe from another disaster?
M.B Spares & Service 14-16 Lyell St, Fyshwick ACT. Ph 02 6239 1099

http://mbspares.com.au - Supporting Australia's Mercedes-Benz Enthusiasts.

RavzSa
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by RavzSa » Mon 13 May, 2019 4:04 am

Hi,

Sorry for the lack of info!

I installed the shocks as per the MB manual however I did not remove the springs. I just kept the LCA supported with a floor jack.
Did you remove the spring doing the job?
- No
How are the control arm bushings?
- Appeared to be in fair condition. No visible cracks. They bushes were replaces a few years ago.
are your wheels factory MB or aftermarket?
- Original MB 8 hole
check your bolts are tight, check the correct bolts have been used in the correct locations
. - New bolts used as supplied with new shocks (Bilstein) and installed in the correct location

then check if the following issues exist:
3. brake calliper bolts loose/missing
- checked, appear to be firmly installed
4. balljoint broken / LCA bent / swaybar bushes not correctly fitted and tightened
- Moved the wheel around didnt get any play on wheel. I suspect the sway bar bushes require replacement as they squeak quite a bit, could this be part of the problem?
5. damper strut installed incorrectly.
I did re-check all the mounting points of the shock and they are firmly fixed against the mounting holes and the top fixing on the mounting is firmly in place.
The scratch marks on the calliper, they look super fresh or maybe from another disaster?
They do appear fresh unfortunately
Spin the wheel, if you can feel it when touching the spring or other suspension component, your wheel bearings need replacement.
Need to check this out. I spun the wheel and it spins free until it loses momentun and then you clearly hear a scraping noise and the wheel is definitely clear from the caliper.
w124 1993 220E - ADB1240226B970861

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Bartman4800
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 13 May, 2019 5:12 pm

I was not entirely clear on the last point.

When you spin the wheel, and you can feel vibrations in suspension components, that means your bearings are cactus. It can still spin freely, but your bearings have developed "brinelling"

Regards, Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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AMG
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by AMG » Mon 13 May, 2019 7:03 pm

This is why internet diagnosis is never a good idea.

We're talking about a serious and potentially life-threatening problem if the vehicle is being driven,
there has been no mention of wheel bearing play, but play in horizontal and vertical plane was checked.
Was there any removal or adjustment?. It is stated this issue did not exist before the struts were replaced...

SO...

back to square #1.

go back over exactly everything that was done.in reverse order.
then start @ step 1. go over everything you did step by step
Follow the factory service manual procedure in parallel and compare the result.

If something was neglected to be mentioned, it's obviously going to alter any suggestions offered.

The brake calliper was removed?. Was the brake hose connection changed? Is it in the same position?

are the brake pads still in the calliper, or were the retaining pins removed and they've slipped out?

Is the brake calliper actually on the stub axle in the correct position?

is the rotor warped?

are the wheel beaings tight? were they adjusted at all?

are you sure the strut is correctly in position on the stub axle

way too many possibilities to offer any further suggestions.

Pics might help, but I doubt it. There is simply no way of telling what's been done unless we can see and follow ALL the steps taken.

:dontknow:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by CraigB » Mon 13 May, 2019 11:03 pm

I haven't responded because I couldn't get my head around how a rim can hit a caliper without something pretty serious and major wrong. From what i can see the caliper and stub axle being fixed and no play as first mentioned and 20 mm clear but then movement to hit - all seems impossible for anything I could picture. Joe hit on something that is the only thing that fits in my head now - that pins not in the calipers and the pads are rattling out enough to hit the rim. I would be looking at where on the rim the mark is relative to everything else. Still pretty serious and major. Joe also raises a good point, and while we are not legally liable, morally I feel its an important point that if a rim is marked up and from what you have said, I certainly wouldn't drive it and maybe you have to consult an expert at this stage - I'd hate you to keep trying from our 'blind' guesses and then something terrible happen.
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by RavzSa » Tue 14 May, 2019 4:23 am

Bartman4800 wrote:
Mon 13 May, 2019 5:12 pm
I was not entirely clear on the last point.

When you spin the wheel, and you can feel vibrations in suspension components, that means your bearings are cactus. It can still spin freely, but your bearings have developed "brinelling"

Regards, Bart
I have not yet checked to see if you can feel vibrations when spinning the wheel but when I spin the wheel there is definitely a grazing noise when the wheel is coming to a stop.
w124 1993 220E - ADB1240226B970861

RavzSa
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by RavzSa » Tue 14 May, 2019 4:44 am

So the car is parked off and hasn't been driven since

2 things I should have also mentioned....

1. While installing the strut the steering knuckle moved out of position so I had to maneuver it back into place by hand
2. The car drove well for about 10km until I took it onto quite a bumpy road surface and then the noise began

I suspect the caliper might have moved

I havent had a proper chance to look at the car since the weekend so this weekend I plan to recheck the wheel caliper fixing bolts etc
w124 1993 220E - ADB1240226B970861

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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by John Green » Tue 14 May, 2019 7:48 am

CraigB wrote:
Mon 13 May, 2019 11:03 pm
I haven't responded because I couldn't get my head around how a rim can hit a caliper without something pretty serious and major wrong. From what i can see the caliper and stub axle being fixed and no play as first mentioned and 20 mm clear but then movement to hit - all seems impossible for anything I could picture. Joe hit on something that is the only thing that fits in my head now - that pins not in the calipers and the pads are rattling out enough to hit the rim.
At this stage there are a number of us keen to hear the end diagnosis. My next observations are:

- Cant be loose/missing pins to secure the brake pads, as is a single piston calliper with slides.The pads can't escape.
- It could at an outside chance be that a caliper bolt is missing and the caliper swings up (or down) pivoting on the remaining bolt and hits the disc?
M.B Spares & Service 14-16 Lyell St, Fyshwick ACT. Ph 02 6239 1099

http://mbspares.com.au - Supporting Australia's Mercedes-Benz Enthusiasts.

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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by CraigB » Tue 14 May, 2019 5:08 pm

I haven't played with my brakes before but guessing they are like gen 1 W126 SEC where there is one bolt from memory and then the top part swings out of the way to get to pads - something like that.

I'm trying to picture how the knuckle moved out of place. So knuckle you mean the bit that the ball joints etc. attaches to? I'm probably best leaving comments to those that have had these things apart before - but if nothing in the steering assembly was detached and everything feels solid, then it does tend to sound like the top of the caliper is moving and changing that distance you refer to and that one bolt may have fallen out, but strange that coincided to when you were working on strut etc. that has nothing to do with brakes and just a coincidence.
Craig Baulderstone
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280SL Ruby
300TE Otto
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by Ivanerrol » Wed 15 May, 2019 3:44 pm

There are two bolts that hold the calipers on. 16 or 17mm?
They are thread locked normally.
A long, long time ago one came out on a W126 I had.

I usually do up those bolts with a breaker bar help.

Is the low brake pad warning wire a bit askew?

Ball joint?

The strut bolts to the control arm and axle assembly.
The spring contacts to the control arm.
The spring actually sets the height of the vehicle
The brake caliper is bolted to the axle assembly.
The only flexible part of the axle assembly is the ball joint.

Either the brake caliper seems to be floating because it isint bolted up.
The brake pads are floating??
The ball joint is loose or floating or faulty.

I would have thought that wheel bearings would need to be way worn to have wheel scraping - so worn as to be entirely noticeable - but you never know.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by RavzSa » Sun 19 May, 2019 4:09 am

Solved!

The problem was the brake caliper. The lower fixing bolt adjacent to the shock mount was loose. I suspect I must have mistakenly loosened it when taking the shock absorber out :pale:

So when the brake was pressed the caliper swung out at the bottom and hit against the wheel.

Thanks to everyone for the help and concern!
w124 1993 220E - ADB1240226B970861

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John Green
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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by John Green » Sun 19 May, 2019 8:42 am

RavzSa wrote:
Sun 19 May, 2019 4:09 am
Solved!
The problem was the brake caliper. The lower fixing bolt adjacent to the shock mount was loose. I suspect I must have mistakenly loosened it when taking the shock absorber out :pale:
At this stage there are a number of us keen to hear the end diagnosis. My next observations are:

- Cant be loose/missing pins to secure the brake pads, as is a single piston calliper with slides.The pads can't escape.
- It could at an outside chance be that a caliper bolt is missing and the caliper swings up (or down) pivoting on the remaining bolt and hits the disc?
I must be psychic..... :dontknow:
M.B Spares & Service 14-16 Lyell St, Fyshwick ACT. Ph 02 6239 1099

http://mbspares.com.au - Supporting Australia's Mercedes-Benz Enthusiasts.

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Re: Brake Caliper Scraping Inside of Wheel

Post by CraigB » Sun 19 May, 2019 11:53 am

good outcome and lots of useful discussion for future reference
Craig Baulderstone
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL Ruby
300TE Otto
350SL Gloria
350SLC Lurch
450SEL Boris
500SEC's...including Syd
560SEL's Foufou and Zac

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