1972 350sl rust repairs

1971-1989: 280SL, 280SLC, 300SL, 350SL, 350SLC, 380SL, 380SLC, 420SL, 450SL, 450SLC, 450SLC 5.0, 500SL, 500SLC, 560SL
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APJAPJ
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1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by APJAPJ » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 9:13 pm

Hi All

My first post under this r107 forum. I recently was encouraged to buy an r107 and decided to have the work done by a shop that does a lot of work on pagoda's and the odd 190sl. The guy has also restored to w114 coupes to a very high standard, so I was taking a leap of faith, but judging by his resume I thought well deserved faith.

This is the first time I have done this type of repair and I wasn't sure how to judge the quality of the work. I thought I would post some pictures and get some feedback. Please be kind.
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w201 D2.5 315k, E2.6 205k
W124 300ce 185k
W124 300D 325k
w126 560sec 200k
w108 3.5 170k miles
r107 350SL

APJAPJ
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by APJAPJ » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 9:18 pm

more pics
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w201 D2.5 315k, E2.6 205k
W124 300ce 185k
W124 300D 325k
w126 560sec 200k
w108 3.5 170k miles
r107 350SL

APJAPJ
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Posts: 29
Joined: Fri 26 May, 2017 10:40 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Clayton, Melbourne, VICTORIA

Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by APJAPJ » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 9:19 pm

more pics 2
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w201 D2.5 315k, E2.6 205k
W124 300ce 185k
W124 300D 325k
w126 560sec 200k
w108 3.5 170k miles
r107 350SL

APJAPJ
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Posts: 29
Joined: Fri 26 May, 2017 10:40 pm
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Location: Clayton, Melbourne, VICTORIA

Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by APJAPJ » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 9:20 pm

more pics 3
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w201 D2.5 315k, E2.6 205k
W124 300ce 185k
W124 300D 325k
w126 560sec 200k
w108 3.5 170k miles
r107 350SL

APJAPJ
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Posts: 29
Joined: Fri 26 May, 2017 10:40 pm
Model you own: w201
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by APJAPJ » Wed 05 Dec, 2018 9:22 pm

final pics

Following on from this I hope to enjoy driving it for the next few years... it isn't in a solid daily driver condition, and I am hoping this work gives it many years more service
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w201 D2.5 315k, E2.6 205k
W124 300ce 185k
W124 300D 325k
w126 560sec 200k
w108 3.5 170k miles
r107 350SL

CraigB
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by CraigB » Thu 06 Dec, 2018 9:30 am

It looks solid and i am sure will do the job if that's what you were looking for. And replying because you asked for comment and also others may read this and consider these comments - so horse has bolted for you but maybe helps in decisions for someone else. If they work on Pagodas etc I assume they gave you options with prices of different levels of repair and it was your choice to not use original pattern patterns for replacing floor and boot panel. I imagine there was a fair amount of hours of work and I have seen those panels available for not huge money, when you compare it to the labour cost. Or there could be locally available wrecked cars..... and thanks because i need to get rid of a 107 shell out of my yard and i will make sure to cut the floor panels from it now i think about it.

I know they produced a lot more of these than the Pagoda but early cars like yours are about as close as you can get to one and logic would say that as Pagoda prices soar, that at some stage nice original cars like this you would expect to get dragged on a bit. But using a pagoda as an example, the price of those panels would be significantly less than the value difference of a nice original car and a clearly patched one in my opinion.

But those panels are only visible if you go looking for it and i am sure that fresh steel will outlive everything else and you can enjoy the car as a safe and usable machine and may have no intention of ever selling the car - yours to do with however you please.

eg. - and this place not generally cheap and may find other cheaper options
https://www.theslshop.com/mercedes-benz ... panel.html
https://www.theslshop.com/mercedes-benz ... right.html

and a google search turned up this place in australia, that while they don't have those panels, obviously bring stuff in and with notice may be able to arrange in a container with other parts and reduce freight cost. All just suggestions for prospective restorers.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-Le ... :rk:1:pf:0
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

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Bartman4800
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by Bartman4800 » Thu 06 Dec, 2018 1:26 pm

I agree with Craig:

-Is it solid and adequate? Sure
-Would I do it like this? Only if it was a cheap car.

If I wanted to keep the car for a long time and sell it onwards or pass it down the family I would have used OEM or at least patterned parts.

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
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AMG
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by AMG » Sun 09 Dec, 2018 9:49 am

yes a 46 year old vehicle will have some rust, somewhere.

For me however, The floorpan is an interesting highlight.
I remember when I stripped the interior out of my SL and removed all the bitumen based floor insulation sheets, there was not a single blemish or spot of rust at all.

When I pulled the blower motor - no rust in the cowl either.

What I did find, was the boot seal lip and tailight surrounds, and a couple of stain patches in the soft top cowl. Nothing in the jacking points or sills or doors.

I think a thorough examination of the chassis rails forward of the subframe is always a mandatory point, as well as under the brake booster, the firewall behind the front wheels and the cross bracing also seems to be a common spot. the upper section of the front floorpan where it meets the firewall and the front chassis rails is also an area which can be a common rust point.

While I have never personally experienced any severe rust in a 107, it's not to say that you can't be caught out. Even with a second pair of eyes, it's still possible to miss something and that 'something' can turn into a big $$$$ repair.

Having said that, it would also now be a time to assess the value of a repaired and refinished vehicle versus a vehicle with 'issues' Certainly the value is there, but only when a proper repair has been effected. So the route you have taken to ensure the vehcile is repaired is a significant step in the right direction.

Others will argue over 'must use this exact piece' etc, but not everyone's budget extends to a six figure restoration, so do what you can when you can and enjoy the vehicle. Later on, if you still have it, and you have squirreled away heaps of genuine rust-free panels, then maybe you'll have a different take on it.

The only areas where I would have a hesitation on not using genuine parts are the chassis rails, sill panels and jacking points the inner guards (front) and the front firewall and cowl section. Those are areas which simply cannot be easily replicated and the genuine parts are cheap enough to ensure that any repair work undertaken in those areas is original spec and a consistently high standard.

Great to have someone document the process so others can see and benefit from your experience.

Any chance of a follow-up and if you are willing, to share some information about costs in general, so others can understand how much work is actually involved?
:occasion5:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by CraigB » Sun 09 Dec, 2018 11:02 am

Agree with all those comments Joe - the only point though i wanted to condense from what i said is that unless you do it yourself, usually labour is at a very high cost and is unlikely to get cheaper. Its the same money to weld in a flat bit of steel or the right pressing. So important to look at the balance of how much more money is the right pressing and proportion of the total bill and then consider the final value of the project. And the trigger for my comments was a recent quote to a mate for bodywork and paint of $30k with him supplying the correct panels. Its the hours of work at 100 to 150/hr (what it costs to run a business these days). But if your having a go yourself or a mate who is really cheap labour it changes that balance and then i totally agree with exactly what is said. If that was say a $5k labour job to weld that steel in and for another $1k in parts the right steel could go in, then i would go that way. But absolutely not having a go at APJAPJ and that is not the right solution for him - just something for others to ponder if embarking on the same thing.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
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280SL
350SL
500SEC's
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AMG
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by AMG » Sun 09 Dec, 2018 12:27 pm

CraigB wrote:
Sun 09 Dec, 2018 11:02 am
the only point though i wanted to condense from what i said is that unless you do it yourself, usually labour is at a very high cost and is unlikely to get cheaper. Its the same money to weld in a flat bit of steel or the right pressing. So important to look at the balance of how much more money is the right pressing and proportion of the total bill and then consider the final value of the project.
Agree 100% - That's why I asked if the OP wouldn't mind sharing a rough costs guide.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

APJAPJ
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by APJAPJ » Tue 11 Dec, 2018 8:48 am

The short answer:

This work cost $ 6,000.


The long answer:

I had no idea what it would cost me to fix the rust. My mechanic had bought the car as a long term project, but he needed the money for a house so i told him i was interested in talking it on as a project.

The panel beater was someone who both of us have used on other cars, and he had already looked at the car and quoted 4 to 5k to fix the rust.

Paintwork is a solid C+... decent respray at some point, but you can tell it was resprayed, but it is decent to look at but the fact that it isnt a factory finish with patina annoys me.
Mechanically it is a B+... my mechanic had purchased from someone who had cared for it, and then continued to fix small parts on it over the two years he had it, but it hadn't been registered, only in his workshop. i did take a short test drive and was very impressed by how light, smooth and responsive the car was. New tailshaft coupling and new ball joints were amongst some of the recent work.
Interior - clean but not original trim - probably re-trimmed in cloth at the same time as the respray.
Body - rust in floorpan

Being an early model, even though the market ignored / ignores 350sl in favor of the 560sl model, they arent that highly valued, so I didnt want to over capitalise on a car which might end up having (or rather surely will) even more unplanned expenses in the future.

So this was a project car, and a good one which I thought needed saving, and my intention was to get it to a state where I could drive it for 5 maybe 10 years before figuring out what to do with it.

Because the panel beater who I trust had seen the work, and I had seen his previous work including a perfect w114 coupe which he had just finished restoring, i was sold on his integrity and the work he was capable of doing. He told me what his plan was, and my only request was that make sure it comes back with zero rust and do it properly.

I hadn't considered pattern parts and that is something I would look very closely at in the future - so keep that slshop link in mind - I would like to know of anyone who went down that route so i could understand what is involved?

Ultimately because he did a lot more rust removal than he expected he ended up at charging me $6000, but I felt that was fair price as I know that he didnt cover anything up and was very open with me as he went through the process.

He mentioned that a full bare metal body respray would cost close to 15,000.

As a side note, my panel beater has since been inspired to buy an r107 450sl and is about to start on a bare metal respray and he tells me that car will be for sale when completed... had I known I might have preferred to wait and choose my color...That particular car has a very solid floor pan.
w201 D2.5 315k, E2.6 205k
W124 300ce 185k
W124 300D 325k
w126 560sec 200k
w108 3.5 170k miles
r107 350SL

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AMG
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by AMG » Tue 11 Dec, 2018 9:48 am

If in future you want to look for aftermarket suppliers to the industry, you could do worse than start here:

K&K Manufacturing - 107 catalogue

It always pays to check the price of genuine parts against aftermarket - because in many cases the difference is not massive. In some cases, yes it is, but also bear in mind, that the original parts pressings are obviously guaranteed accurate.

Unless of course you buy say, a 560SL radiator support, and it's picked out of the parts bin, but when it arrives, you can see it is obviously not the correct part, but another part with the 107 part number and barcode.
Happened to me once.
Nobody is immune to mistakes, even the people who stick labels on metal bars with tags welded on.
Still, it was a high quality part. It prevented me from completing an engine conversion though. I was pretty miffed at the time, because I had set aside time to do the job, and because of that one part, I ended up losing 2 weeks of planned work and wasted annual leave.

I'd suggest a detailed photograph of the existing part be provided prior to ordering some of the more model-specific variant parts, to ensure it is a correct match. For example, early radiator support versus later, or whether the model contains a separate oil cooler and radiator, versus a radiator with an integrated oil cooler. Just random examples. So many variants in the mechanical dept over the model's production span, have led to minor alterations or changes to panels, trim, brackets and bushes.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by CraigB » Tue 11 Dec, 2018 10:01 am

That all makes sense to me and thanks for sharing that. I guess the only point is if the panel beater is aware of the availability of those parts. I think i can picture his position though where you are trying to work to a price and his time is money. Doing it myself i could scratch around and look for a wrecked SLC that maybe has the same panel i could cut out of ( I have an SLC i have wrecked and cutting panels from for another car) but even the phone calls and travel take time that the panel beater could be doing other work - so its still a cost to his bottom line of making his business work. He has flat steel there, meets your requirement of no rust, isn't visible unless you look under it etc and that extra 1 to 2k he is not accounting for in the final bill for those patterned parts. On the other side of the coin though, despite lower values of 350, I still think you would account for the extra cost in the value of the car - but you didn't know. All hindsight stuff and its not like it seriously impacts your car and enjoyment of it. And $6k these days is not like old days, most people blow that money in depreciation of their daily all the time or some glitch in a nearly new car costs that sort of money to fix. I think these forums are good for raising these ideas though that people can tap into.

And the value thing is interesting. I like the early 350, esp with the fluid coupling for its character and not saying I wouldn't like the punch of the 560 better but I like old cars and that era - i was born in 1963. I have a '69 pagoda and a '72 350 and while they are distinctly different cars there are the threads of similarity and that story of evolution I find interesting. I think there are still enough cheap ratty 350's out there and while people think they can buy one cheap and fix it, that will still impact that notion they are not worth much. And its all supply and demand..... gets harder to get a good 'nothing to do' car, labour keeps going up on those with even small things to do and then as long as more than one person wants to grab that car and prices go up. I follow W108 prices a bit - 250s just recently advertised but looked nice for $22k - went to have a look at the advert and wondering if it really was good or a dreamer.... but already sold. Doesn't mean it sold for $22k but someone has been sitting there waiting for the right car after looking at heaps of crap and I bet it went close to that..... and if the guy doesn't have to touch it he is miles in front of the guy who bought the $3k car and thinks he got a bargain.

But you have a good solid and sorted car that you can enjoy and i am sure if it comes time to sell that will be recognised as a car that doesn't need hours of labour spent on it.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

matthewz108
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Re: 1972 350sl rust repairs

Post by matthewz108 » Tue 11 Dec, 2018 8:10 pm

Just another perspective, i would imagine the willingness to spend $$ on stamped replica panels vs sheet metal would depend on the original purchase price, the final estimated value of the car, and of course the owners pocket depth...
1971 W108 280SE 3.5
1982 R107 500SL

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