Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Model 107 Specific Mods -
We seem to have a lot of posts around this particular model, I wonder why?!!???
Post Reply

How broke do you think i will be at the end of this project?

Completely.
5
50%
Almost.
3
30%
Surprisingly not..
1
10%
You wont be broke, because if you succeed we will buy your kit!
1
10%
 
Total votes: 10

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Fri 25 Nov, 2016 4:48 am

This is my first post, so please allow me to break down the door with my crazy habits, and strange builds. Im used to people getting mad at me for "breaking the stock" and "thats impossible" type things, but considering this forum has a mod section, i assume i will find open minds here.

Again pardon my texas mannerisms and mechanic grammar, but i would be grateful if i could withdraw any advice from others here.
Dont be surprised when i actually do the things im talking about, as i am not a talker, im a do'er.

To start off,
Yes i will be making blower cams (no overlap)
Yes i will be re-doing the entire fuel system
Yes i will be cutting holes and welding supports
Yes i plan on my multifuel crazy stuff but i would like this thread to focus on the application of a turbocharger, adjustable fuel system, and the modification of the exhaust/intake manifold.

(we dont always want to spray globs of fuel in and make globs of power. so a REAL sport mode, and an eco mode would be great.)
My wife Codes programs, and builds computers, while i fabricate, and work in an alternative energy lab, so our skills bond together marvelously, and the more help and info we get from you all, the better we can produce a product, and make a kit for people to do similar projects.
(because holy cow Mega Squirt is EXPENSIVE yet limited, and we are hoping to put out a cheaper alternative product with more options.)

So yeah. 1986 560SL I will update with the VIN when i get back home, and post pictures of the car now, with issues, and drawn plans. For now, here is some pictures of the car, and other projects i have finished:
IMG_3608.jpg
IMG_3116.JPG
And This Is The Beast-To-Be
560slstock.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5019
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 1:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by CraigB » Fri 25 Nov, 2016 11:25 am

Welome - Cool - how much is a hydrogen W123 kit!

You are absolutely right, mods section is here to go for it, have open discussion and hold back the remarks like "gee 560sl in standard trim are getting to be worth lots standard" etc.

Have you heard of Mike Poll Jonker and his business Dkubus. I instantly thought of him while reading your post as another progressive mind playing with Benz's. Google him and you will find his site/facebook. Mike was looking at making longer throw crankshafts for the M117 I think at one stage and has good knowledge of the motor. He has developed the FrankenCIS gear.

I am interested in a mega squirt alternative. My longer term plan is to build a spare 350slc i have by putting a spare euro spec 560 M117 i have. I will be happy with programmable injection and don't want to go down the road of any blown options. I will need to work out manifolds too. You probably know that early M116 motors had d-jet EFI and therefore a manifold with injectors, fuel rail etc. I think it might also need some sort of spacers to fill out the wider vee, but is a good start for me. Not sure if that works for turbo and getting all that air through it. Exhaust of course we are looking at different things and LHD/RHD are different. I did note on viewing an AMG build in Wheeler dealer season 13 episode 11 (google it) that Magnaflow mufflers (at least on the same continent if not same state!) 3D scanned an original AMG tubular manifold and then remade from there. Of course your manifold will be different but if you look at the episode on youtube you can work out if these guys can be useful to you. It is a bit squeazy in there.

Also you might want to sniff around AMG classic forum and benzworld - somewhere there somebody did a run of W107 lhd try-y manifolds - wishing someone would do rhd! Unlike W126, there were never any W107 rhd try-ys produced.

Anyway, good luck and i am interested if any of this works towards my project.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

User avatar
T-Modell
SLS AMG
Posts: 2825
Joined: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 12:47 am
Model you own: w107
Location: Weinheim / Germany
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by T-Modell » Fri 25 Nov, 2016 4:58 pm

HI,
good luck with your project, I do not doubt, that you can make it. AFAIK, Koenigs in Munich did turbo-charging in the 80s, also Mosselmann. So it should be genuily possible. Also with a lot of fine-tuning, around 330hp should be possible with the 5.6 litre as I recently saw in a W111 Coupe conversion.

Keep us updated!
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5019
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 1:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by CraigB » Fri 25 Nov, 2016 5:25 pm

Thomas, do you know what they did to get the 330hp? The standard motor gets 300hp with the 10:1 compression and i think porting and bigger inlet valves, tri-ys - not sure but i think cams different but still hydraulics and assume not as aggressive as the amg grind where they went to solid lifters and lightened arms etc. I was thinking about putting a set of AMG cams i have into the 300hp motor with the lightened valve gear etc but not sure what that would be worth. Also the 300hp is with standard type exaust with the off to the side boxes etc and i am sure the straight through amg type system would be worth a bit too. But was just wondering if you knew what they did to get that extra 30 horses
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

User avatar
T-Modell
SLS AMG
Posts: 2825
Joined: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 12:47 am
Model you own: w107
Location: Weinheim / Germany
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by T-Modell » Fri 25 Nov, 2016 5:29 pm

Craig,
I have to find out in detail; they changed the ignition system to the more simpler one (KE->KA??), more fine tuning and definitely a 6.000 Euro hand-made manifolds ...
2016-02-22 13.35.25-1.jpg
Thomas

P. S.: However, after trying to find the split manifolds for my 500SL (and failed), I talked to a R107 expert here - also tuning expert - ... he told me, that there's no power difference between the single and double-manifold version. So I will change from 2x2 pipes down to 2x1 pipe again, so it fits.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

User avatar
kimrh
300 SLR
Posts: 1504
Joined: Tue 05 Jan, 2010 3:18 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: Perth WA

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by kimrh » Fri 25 Nov, 2016 11:54 pm

Hi David,
Email Hendrik the owner of Elbe Engineering over in Estonia.
He is a serious M117 engine performance supplier of either a Supercharger Kit or a twin turbo kit that he has been developing in his workshop.
Hendrik supplies all sorts of performance parts but he does sell his EFI Kit and his supercharger Kit complete with a brand new designed inlet manifold which has air to water cooling and his twin turbo kit that he has also developed.
He also provides all the components including the ECU etc and wiring already based tuned from dyno work as he likes to be able to provided a complete bolt on kit or components - whichever you choose
http://elbe.ee
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

gazman
Pagoda
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun 10 Apr, 2016 1:16 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: Nth Dandalup WA

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by gazman » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 1:19 pm

those pic's are MERC PORN :dance: :happy3: :dance: :happy3:
1989 560 SEL King of the road

Djenka018
Ponton
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun 06 Aug, 2006 12:50 am
Model you own: w107
Location: Syd Vicious

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Djenka018 » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 1:40 pm

not trying to be the devil's advocate,
curious how do you intend to transform 200-250 or more kW into acceleration without any of the 3 letter fancy acronyms like ESR, ESC, TC, LSD etc on the car?
'80 450SLC 3-continental

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 4:49 pm

WOW Ive never received such a positive response so immediately! Thank you guys for all the info! I will be contacting all of the above mentioned people, if for nothing more than their knowledge. Those last kits look AMAZING and its crazy that he got all that to fit under the hood. I was actually looking to go up and out with the insanity, but now, i'm reconsidering this whole sleeper thing... You guys are dangerous for me. ;)
I am about to post a video of the tapping beast (The ever present rocker arm issue...)

On that topic, a bit of background on the engine:
I bought this beauty for $1050 USD
Previous owner had replaced two of the rocker arms, and said it solved the tapping for a while, but it came back. (sounds to me like the pressure sender lines are clogged or the oil pump itself is wimpy) he swore his shop always put the correct oil in it but i never trust that anyways.
aside from that was the typical passenger side oil leak, and from sitting, the power steering line dry rotted.
I have kept in contact with him for the last 3 years trying to get him to sell the car to me, but just this year, junkies broke in and RIPPED OUT the radio (but not the HUGE alpine Amp or the SUBs... idiot thieves) so he felt dumb that he didnt sell it to me sooner, and i just happened to run into him while i had the cash in my pocket (rare)
He was so sure that it would fire it right up, he bet me $50 haha... i won.. :\

The Green Wire.
AKA the crank position sensor was busted, and when that busted it blew the coil (or they somehow both broke while sitting) and the coil blew the EZE
After i got all the parts, it fired right up!! tickticktickticktickticktick & smoke from left manifold...
I called and asked him if he drove it while ticking, and apparently he put another 1k on it with the kicking. While on the phone i realized the power steering was just leaking on the exhaust, so i ordered that line, easy peasy.
Thats when i decided i wanted to avoid the whole "chase the ticking rabbit" game, and i decided i would just take the engine out and do a rebuild...
shortly after i decided that, my lab got a LT1 lambo (trans AM engine swapped into a lamborghini) running on vaporized fuel, getting 50MPG...
Couldn't let him have the only fast sexy high mpg car...
So here we are.

I have some calls to make, and some emails to send. Thank you guys for the quick responses, and help!
560sldrawingsmall.jpg
Dinky video: https://youtu.be/9gLk62WVtIQ
Hope i dont loose you guys on the alternative smokey unick style carbureting i do. ;)
No im not crazy. i do this regularly... okay.. a little crazy. but thats just cuz i wing it. how am i going to make this actually go forwards without ripping the wheels off? hehe Hope i figure that one out..
diablovaporbox.jpg
IMG_5445 3.JPG
lambovapor.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 4:59 pm

Djenka018 wrote:not trying to be the devil's advocate,
curious how do you intend to transform 200-250 or more kW into acceleration without any of the 3 letter fancy acronyms like ESR, ESC, TC, LSD etc on the car?
less throttle ;)

I only really want this hp for dump burnouts, and more response at already fast speeds.
Its more of a: Ive proven my hydrogen and vapor concepts on many motors, but they all got criticism, and disbelief, until i did my friends lambo, and NOBODY questioned that. they just figured "oh that car is fancy. all words must be true" so before we sell anything, or put up our kits to people i dont meet in person, i want my army of proof autos. Ive got my turbo kawasaki bike, my 45mpg 300td, my landscaping service of multifuel motors, but i apparently NEED a Muscle car, and a classy car, so why not have both in one?

BUT who knows how far i will mod this. i might add the extra sensors for the ESC stuff...... but i really like drifting around town when nobody is out..
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5019
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 1:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by CraigB » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 5:18 pm

nah, that stuffs for nancy boys! Seriously though, being a 560 it will have lsd and might even have some traction control stuff. Same with ABS too, if you know what you are doing a human can still do those things sometimes better than a computer. I think it is fairly well prove that a car with ABS relay out 'can' be pulled up quicker. If you feel the rear end is not getting power down you back off a bit and feed the power in - TC just keeps pulsing the brakes on to limit the power going to the rear until it gets traction and gets going. Might want to be thinking about tyre size and stickiness though.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5019
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 1:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by CraigB » Sat 26 Nov, 2016 5:39 pm

and then saw and approved your posts David - only 2 more and they will go straight through. That would be lifters and not rocker arms wouldn't it?
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 7:53 am

CraigB wrote:and then saw and approved your posts David - only 2 more and they will go straight through. That would be lifters and not rocker arms wouldn't it?
Yes sorry. He replaced both. each time.
And that scared me into thinking the cam might be worn where i cant see it.
I literally just havent had the time to start pulling at this. But that time is quickly approaching. ;)
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 7:59 am

Havent gotten through to any of those guy yet btw, but i will need advice on keeping or changing the lifter situation. I already plan of replacing them all to alleviate the ticking hunt, but im not sure it would work the same with a blower cam, and stronger oil pump...

..I know its gonna be out of the car for a good long while.. :boohoo:
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5019
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 1:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by CraigB » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 8:52 am

There can be issues with the oil bar that sits above the cam and the little plastic mounts that it has - very cheap to replace and always a good idea to routinely do. I don't know the characteristics of a blower cam, but when AMG used their higher lift cam they used solid lifters - but if you don't like ticking that is not a solution! Maybe it is just the persistent odd one that is annoying. I watched that wheeler dealer clip i referred to and couldn't tell if they changed out to solid lifters or just lightened the valve train. They are using proper stamped AMG cams so would have thought they would go solids and talked about it.

Also i don't know if a stronger oil pump could affect those plastic cam oil bar mounts - blow them off maybe? Don't know how much stronger etc. I don't recall standard pumps ever being mentioned as a problem. Did you say the guage shows good pressure? Might just be oil bar issues at source of all this. Could put another remote oil pressure gauge on it to check what it is really doing. But before replacing lifters i would be looking into the solid vs hydraulic question. Solid lifter parts you source from early 3.5/4.5 V8 parts from W108 etc. For lightening them, I don't know how much you can pick up off the wheeler dealer clip. I got a demo one from different Hendrik on the AMG classic forum that came with some AMG grind cams i got from him.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

merc-304
Finnie
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 2:55 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: North Coast NSW

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by merc-304 » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 10:03 am

Thomas do you know what was the cost of the custom manifold in the pic ?
Some unattractive Tig welds when zoomed .
380 SEC

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 10:52 am

CraigB wrote: I don't know the characteristics of a blower cam...
blower cam just means there will be no valve overlap. (normally used to scavange fuel, and to help move the intake charge faster, but when under boost you end up just blowing fuel out of the tail pipes)
CraigB wrote:but if you don't like ticking that is not a solution! Maybe it is just the persistent odd one that is annoying.
exactly. If it was engeneered ticking i would be fine, but the whole part of it being a broken thing slapping metal flattening the rocker out.. it sketched me out..
CraigB wrote:Also i don't know if a stronger oil pump could affect those plastic cam oil bar mounts - blow them off maybe?
thats my fear, and also seems like they would lift more?? but i need to look at the design more..
but yeah, here is another video of the car.
oh and vin is wdbba48dxga049553
https://youtu.be/fN97rULP1Ws
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sun 27 Nov, 2016 4:41 pm

Oh god I'm going to miss driving this thing.
Even with the ticking (i stopped giving a :pottytrain4: since im about to rebuild it.) This car pulls like no other.
"Oh look a parking lot!! SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECHSHSHSSSSSHSHHHHHHHVVVVRRROOOOOOOOOMMMM"
Guy from turbo bandit is supposed to call back tomorrow at 10am cst so i will have a better plan then.

Also since i havent mentioned it, the turbos i planned on using come off a 6L Diesel cummins. So i figure if one is good enough for a 350HP truck, that two should be good enough for a 400HP roadster. Might not be how that works out, but I have two of them. Large T3's if i remember. so they should spool pretty low, and if thats an issue with top end restriction, i MIGHT go insane and put a third T4 in series/parallel and have complex valving... I would like to avoid this though, so hopefully i can stick with what i've got.

Also after seeing that sexy engine bay, i reeeeeaaaalllllyy like the idea of a sleeper, but i would have to make a taller hood to do my vaporbox stuff..
I spent a lot of time on photoshop today drawing out versions of the car-to-be.

Thanks again guys, i look forwards to this journey.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 11:46 am

Okay guys, going to take it out to the track for one last run, and throw her on the dyno on monday.
just got asked to present at a big conference in july, so now thats my completely ridiculous deadline. Good news for you guys though.

I just hope I can get the numbers done on monday, so I can start tearing here down. :pray:
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
AMG
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5788
Joined: Thu 01 Jan, 1970 10:00 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Region: New South Wales
Location: Dark side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by AMG » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 7:55 pm

I'll watch this thread with interest.

Hendrik's inlet manifold is developed already and runs 4 laminova high efficiency water to air intercoolers. The current pattern is for a magnusson supercharger, but others could be fitted to the top plate.

Personally, given the $ investment It's a far more straightforward, already-developed solution which is able to be bolted on.

Insofar as changing cams, I'd leave that until the motor is running.

the ticking is likely to be the shims. buy a go-no-go gauge from sir tools. Use it to check the adjusters. It will determine if your hydraulic adjusters are shagged or not. if they are OK, then the rocker needs to be checked for wear. adjust the clearance with the appropriate thickness valve shim.

If you change cams, you're going to need new sprockets, guides, chain, tensioner, rockers, adjusters, and shims, oil gallery clips and gaskets.

from a cost perspective, a go-no-go gauge and some patience will more than likely see your tick sorted. It's very common. especially on the right rear cylinders.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 3:31 pm

AMG wrote:from a cost perspective, a go-no-go gauge and some patience will more than likely see your tick sorted. It's very common. especially on the right rear cylinders.
Oh of course, and I appreciate the advice DEARLY, but I already am commited to a rebuild, as the multifuel manifolds will be specifically designed. Im mostly looking for others on the forum who have done adjustments to their 107s so i can know what mistakes to avoid.

The point of the "No overlap" cam is to prevent fuel waste, and flashback detonation, OR pre-detonation. This system will have a hydrogen oxygen idle and the chance of explosions is something I overcompensate for. Ive had it happen, though i never have enough hydrogen to be anything but loud and scary, LOUD AND SCARY IS TERRIFYING when you are riding a motorcycle down the street.
I know this multifuel stuff sounds complicated, but really its just math and chemistry.
I.E. For my system to be the most efficient, I can't allow any valve overlap.
I do however wonder if I will be able to afford the SS sleeves i want for the engine.. It will operate fine with the stock (I assume) but i would like the chemistry of something a little less reactive than aluminum.
David's 560SL Smoothing 0.pdf
Also, after talking to the Previous Owner, I dread the jiffy lube (horrible mechanics) engine maintnence he apparently had done, so i plan on getting in there and replacing all the guide rails, chain, gaskets, and pretty much a whole dang engine overhaul. I mean look at that graph. OUTCH
I know from previous jobs that Febi rocker arms and engine parts tend to wear EXTREMEMLY fast, ***so If any of you have a list of good brands, or a place to purchace what i need, it will be greatly appreciated. *** Ive talked to the guys at turbo bandit and they said all the r107s they boosted never even needed the valve system changed or modified... again I ASSUME that to be true, but If any of you have cautionary tales, i will not throw them to the wind.
We recently got asked to show our car at a Large science and technology conference, and give a 2hour lecture on the processes used. Last year we had a small speaking time, off record, and displayed our Turbocharged KZLTD750 starting up and running on Diesel+ethanol, then on transmission fluid+water+hydrogen. It was an amazing display, and now they want us to have a full timeslot... Naturally I desire to drive the newest baby up there to prove the trust i have in my systems...
So I am suddenly putting together a request for funding or even project sponsorship because this went
from: a project I planned on spending a year or two on,
to: YIKES i have 6 months!
I can do it, but I'll be eating rice and beans the whole time. :tongue8:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 4:02 pm

Not sure why those didnt generate a preview. sorry I thought PDF worked like JPG
Here is the above file, along with some pictures from today:
560sldyno.png
DSC_7701small.jpg
DSC_7759small.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 4:05 pm

Last update for the night.
Its happened.
Ive been talked into the sleeper.

We are just going to make a slightly taller hood, to fit everything.

... engine maintenance is gonna be rough once this is bolted together... better engineer this faeces with wrenches in mind.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Fri 30 Dec, 2016 8:29 pm

https://youtu.be/yTGJv2nWbYU
Another video is up now, engine is out, and a more detailed "plan explination" will be written out and also filmed tomorrow.
Just keeping the thread alive.

ALSO, ill be selling a lot for parts off this car. All fuel system parts are working perfect, so PM me if you are interested, otherwise they are getting cleaned up, and sold on ebay.
engineoutsmall.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 4:04 pm

Im extremely surprised that nobody had note this sooner, but: The cams HAVE NO OVERLAP! what a relief! But im amazed nobody on here knew this already!

Everything elso on the inside looks pretty good... those cam towers were literally the devil to take off... I had to end up welding the allen to the bolt... THEN THE ALLEN SHATTERED, so i ended up welding Vice-grips and a meterlong breaker bar.
smallbolt.jpg
here is what that was like: ***Image*** click for video

also, its looking pretty good in here... except for the guide rails...in the oil pan.. but hey, i think that happened after it was removed..
smallenginenaked.jpg
Anyways, just giving a quick ping. :cya:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5019
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 1:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by CraigB » Sun 29 Jan, 2017 5:05 pm

Thanks for that. I don't think i have my head around all that you are planning, but interesting to follow.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 8055
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 8:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Mercmad » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 7:33 pm

Hi, Do you have a largish Merc shop near you ? Ask them if you can borrow there head stud jig and install helicoils in the block . if not you WILL strip the threads out of the block. it's the only bad part of those engines. Some of the head bolts go in at angle so you cant simply drill and helicoil the holes. Also the tapping is caused by dirt in the lifter galleries blocking the feed holes in the ball studs. Also, lack of oil changes can wear thecam bearings so lower oil pressure means noisy tappets which wears cams ...a viscious circle. if your cam bearings indicate any wear, throw them and fit new ones.
Did the American 560's come with an oil cooler? If not ,fit one . They connect to the filter housing .Here is a bit of info on turbos for M117's.
"Hi,
I still had a very last V8 biturbo kit for sale. These were then developed among others for King in Munich Tüv appraisals etc.
Perhaps there is indeed interest in buying ... Price 4000 Euro complete with fuel injection (Bosch original, new, especially for Turbo).
Sincerely
turbo engine
Tom Frischkorn
Puderbacherstr. 8
56317 Urbach
Phone: 02684-4248
Fax: 02684-4625
http://www.Turbo-Motors.de "
m117 turbo.jpg
m117 turbo2.jpg
turbo m117 3.jpg
turbo m1174.jpg
m117 turbo 5.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 8055
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 8:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Mercmad » Thu 02 Feb, 2017 8:12 pm

M117 turbo piston, note the deep pocket.
m117 turbo pistons.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Tue 14 Feb, 2017 10:28 am

Mercmad wrote:...borrow there head stud jig and install helicoils in the block . if not you WILL strip the threads out of the block. it's the only bad part of those engines. Some of the head bolts go in at angle so you cant simply drill and helicoil the holes.Yeah, thats what its looking like.. thanks for the tip!

..the tapping is caused by dirt in the lifter galleries blocking the feed holes in the ball studs. Also, lack of oil changes can wear thecam bearings so lower oil pressure means noisy tappets which wears cams ...a viscious circle.Lol Confirmed. I pulled plastic sand out of that rail and out of the lifters. I forgot to mention that at the dyno run i put some tranny fluid in the oil to clear it out before the pull, and the ticking went away during the dyno test LOL

if your cam bearings indicate any wear, throw them and fit new ones. DING

Did the American 560's come with an oil cooler?Nope. Already in the plan though! Thanks for confirming those filter fittings.
I've never seen those pistons before. now ive got a hunt for them! This isnt getting cheaper hehehe. Anything else you recommend upgrading for the boost?
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Sun 28 May, 2017 12:00 pm

So round one. all together. NOBODY would let me borrow the tool to helicoil.... soooooooo I GOT LUCKY AS HECK. Nothing stripped!!!!??!??!!?
Of course there is time.... lol

anywho. i havent posted in a long while, so here is what i got so far so the cool price of $2500
samllparts.jpg
and then here is it put together.
smallblueengineside.jpg
smallblue560.jpg
smallblueaccessories.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

User avatar
AMG
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 5788
Joined: Thu 01 Jan, 1970 10:00 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Region: New South Wales
Location: Dark side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by AMG » Mon 29 May, 2017 11:36 am

Not sure I would have bolted it back together without heli-coiling the block. I think that is a mistake. Especially if planning on forced induction - You're going to blow gaskets and strip threads. If I recall correctly, this happened to Stefan about 8-9 years ago when he did his supercharged 5.6
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

User avatar
Davidvonohlerking
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri 25 Nov, 2016 2:33 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Turbocharging a 1986 560SL

Post by Davidvonohlerking » Mon 29 May, 2017 1:58 pm

AMG wrote:Not sure I would have bolted it back together without heli-coiling the block. I think that is a mistake. Especially if planning on forced induction - You're going to blow gaskets and strip threads. If I recall correctly, this happened to Stefan about 8-9 years ago when he did his supercharged 5.6
D: Yyyyeeeeaahhhh. im pretty much expecting it. I gotta have the demo version ready for july, and (crazy i know) i kinda plan on redoing the head bolts after that, while the engine is in the car. I've got a lot of tuning to do, and the "sport mode" will not be happening until after that... but i hear you loud and clear: "david. you are being dumb!" :book: :pray:
but you have now confirmed that i am not allowed to drive it hard until rectified... mmmmmmmm
The more i type... the more i feel like im just gonna buy the tool...
GAH im just already broke and out of timeeee XD

Oh and update on the ECU
Looks like im gonna mess with the speeduino to control the spark timing, since i will be running alternative fuels. i already have a few programs in the works for heat control and disassociation crud.. so i figured i might just ditch the EZE alltogether and make a standalone form the start... that being said, i have 2, so now one is for sale XD

Ugggg i really should re-do the bolts..
David vonOhlerking
1979 beige 300TD (all american rare manual ***LOANED OUT)
1980 white 240D (under 100k)
1983 dirty 300TD (organ donor/electric hybrid)
1984 tan 300D turbo (+600k ***SOLD)
1985 red 300TD (red rocket Hydrogen assist)
1986 grey 560SL (Vapor Hydrogen Turbo project)

Post Reply

Return to “107 Mods”