M117.968 output

1979-1991 280SE, 300SE, 300SEL, 380SE, 380SEL, 380SEC, 420SE, 420SEL, 420SEC, 500SE, 500SEL, 500SEC, 560SEL, 560SEC
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Greg in Oz
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Greg in Oz » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:44 pm

Panzerkampfwagen CXXVI wrote:...videos or it didnt happen :dance:
...
There may (or may not) be another OBENZer who, along with his SWMBO (both reputedly inclined to make enthusiastic use of the loud pedal themselves), may (or may not) have encouraged an owner of a 500SLC to accidentally make brief but moderately enthusiastic use of the loud pedal, which may (or may not) have resulted in a "number 11" being imprinted on the road in front of said OZBENZer's place of residence. :whistle:
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Greg in Oz
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Greg in Oz » Mon 19 Dec, 2011 10:49 pm

Dr Diesel wrote:
Greg in Oz wrote:The 560SEL and 560SEC were rated at 182kW DIN at 4800rpm
In original microfiche i find 178 kW. :dontknow:
I :dontknow: either. The specs I have are from a 1987 MB Australia sales document.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Panzerkampfwagen CXXVI
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Panzerkampfwagen CXXVI » Tue 20 Dec, 2011 2:46 pm

Dr Diesel wrote:
Panzerkampfwagen CXXVI wrote:WDB1260442A413788
The car has no KAT (according to data-card).
Your car has no EZL correcting tip behind the firewall, because it has EZL/AKR ignition system and correcting tip is located on EZL/AKR ignition control box.

(how I haven't guessed it earlier :king: )

See here (round trimmer plug with green font):
Image
, but on your 500 SEC it must be with white font. Check it.

Try to install KE- trimmer plug in position "1".
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7959/dsc2672c.jpg
:read2:
I think it will help to solve a problem :laughing5: :
500 SEC
7.2 sec from 0 to 100 km/h.
500SLC
8.5 sec from 0 to 100 km/h.
Awesome, thanks so much! Strangely enough, there is definately a catalyst under the car, with an oxygen sensor in it, and my KE trimmer plug does say "KAT" on it.

Nevertheless I will pop it on position "1" and go from there!

My EZL plug is black, with the font uncoloured- it's black moulded plastic like the whole cap...
Greg in Oz wrote:
Panzerkampfwagen CXXVI wrote:...videos or it didnt happen :dance:
...
There may (or may not) be another OBENZer who, along with his SWMBO (both reputedly inclined to make enthusiastic use of the loud pedal themselves), may (or may not) have encouraged an owner of a 500SLC to accidentally make brief but moderately enthusiastic use of the loud pedal, which may (or may not) have resulted in a "number 11" being imprinted on the road in front of said OZBENZer's place of residence. :whistle:
Hahahah, excellent... I have 'heard of' similar experiences with suprise kickdown into first gear in a certain mercedes, albeit with less dramatic, but still pleasantly suprising, results.

Thanks all for the help, I owe you all a beer/wine/scotch when i eventually meet up with you all!
Last edited by Panzerkampfwagen CXXVI on Tue 20 Dec, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'88 W126 500SEC HV - Rauchsilber - 17" AMGs, H&R Springs, St/St exhaust, LSD - 200kW
'99 Toyota JZA80 Supra Twin Turbo VVTi - Stock ish
'84 Toyota MA61 Supra - 3 litre turbo - ~300kW, ~590Nm - Too much torque for the driveline :'(

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Greg in Oz
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Greg in Oz » Tue 20 Dec, 2011 4:38 pm

Dr Diesel wrote:... I think it will help to solve a problem :laughing5: :
500 SEC
7.2 sec from 0 to 100 km/h.
500SLC
8.5 sec from 0 to 100 km/h.
I missed this earlier and I'm not sure how the physics of that works. Remember that both cars have essentially the same engine and 4 speed auto transmission. How can the heavier car (15% heavier?) with the taller (numerically lower) final drive ratio accelerate 1.3 seconds faster, even if it is the high output version with 5% to 7% more engine power?

0 to 100km/h acceleration times I have seen cover a range of values. For the 500SLC (4 speed auto) it is most commonly stated at 7.8 seconds and I recall reading a test claiming 7.3 sec. For the earlier 450SLC 5.0 (3 speed auto) it is commonly stated at 8.5 seconds, although again I recall seeing better results, understandable considering the heavier 450SLC could achieve well under 9 seconds (165kW versions without emission controls) and even the 350SLC could manage 9 seconds.

Consistent acceleration times for the 500SEC are more difficult to find, possibly due to the various engine outputs, although 8.1 seconds is often stated. Of course, if you want the best performing 126 (other than AMG and other modified versions), you would probably do well to go for the high output (220kW) version of the 560, even with its very tall final drive ratio.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Dr Diesel
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Dr Diesel » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 4:36 am

Code 822 - ECE-version, 220 kW [in comparison with KAT (178 kW) and RÜF (200 kW)], up to 08/1987:
  • different camshafts - 16/17 designation,
  • different KE- control unit - 004 545 25 32 (in modern parts catalog it is replaced with ECU for KAT/RÜF)
  • EZL control box - 004 545 34 32,
  • EZL correcting trimmer plug - 013 545 78 28 "EZL",
  • different exhaust tri-y manifolds (in comp. with KAT),
  • different pistons (e=10.0:1),
  • different vacuum modulator - black, 126 270 43 79 (in comp. with KAT), 4.0 bar modulating pressure (RÜF - 4.2, KAT - 3.8).
Mercedes-Benz. Ihr guter Stern auf allen Straßen.

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Greg in Oz
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Greg in Oz » Sat 24 Dec, 2011 4:06 pm

Dr Diesel wrote:Code 822 - ECE-version, 220 kW [in comparison with KAT (178 kW) and RÜF (200 kW)], up to 08/1987:
  • different camshafts - 16/17 designation,
  • different KE- control unit - 004 545 25 32 (in modern parts catalog it is replaced with ECU for KAT/RÜF)
  • EZL control box - 004 545 34 32,
  • EZL correcting trimmer plug - 013 545 78 28 "EZL",
  • different exhaust tri-y manifolds (in comp. with KAT),
  • different pistons (e=10.0:1),
  • different vacuum modulator - black, 126 270 43 79 (in comp. with KAT), 4.0 bar modulating pressure (RÜF - 4.2, KAT - 3.8).
So, for anyone with an Aussie delivered 560 with 178kW (or is that 182kW?), you now know what you need to up it to 220kW. That shopping list will probably only cost you about $500 - 1000 per kilowatt! :think: :wall:

For me, I'm curious what changes were made to the 117.960 used in the factory entered rally 500SLCs that in their final year of competition (1980) were good for around 255kW (340hp), and in the 500SL that was built for (but never competed in) the 1981 world rally championship was claimed to deliver 275kW (370hp). Considering the cars sold to the public to homologate the 107.026 for competition use were supposedly only good for 177kW, it would be interesting to know what modifications were made that were within the rules to increase the engine output by as much as 55%.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Dr Diesel
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Dr Diesel » Sun 01 Jan, 2012 6:28 pm

Dr Diesel wrote:Code 822 - ECE-version, 220 kW [in comparison with KAT (178 kW) and RÜF (200 kW)], up to 08/1987:
  • different camshafts - 16/17 designation,
  • different KE- control unit - 004 545 25 32 (in modern parts catalog it is replaced with ECU for KAT/RÜF)
  • EZL control box - 004 545 34 32,
  • EZL correcting trimmer plug - 013 545 78 28 "EZL",
  • different exhaust tri-y manifolds (in comp. with KAT),
  • different pistons (e=10.0:1),
  • different vacuum modulator - black, 126 270 43 79 (in comp. with KAT), 4.0 bar modulating pressure (RÜF - 4.2, KAT - 3.8).
+
  • different fuel distributor (with 822 like on engines after 09/1987, CR 10:1)
    air flow sensor
    washer (part of the air flow sensor)
    KE- trimming plug
Mercedes-Benz. Ihr guter Stern auf allen Straßen.

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Dr Diesel
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Dr Diesel » Thu 10 May, 2012 10:54 pm

Dr Diesel wrote:All 117 and 116 engines has had EZL/AKR and 10:1 comp. ratio after 09/1987. And ignition system correcting tip not need to adjusting.
I'm sorry, I was mistaken a little. :banghead:
:violent1:
AUS- and US-version M116/117 from 1986 has only EZL ignition system.
Mercedes-Benz. Ihr guter Stern auf allen Straßen.

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kimrh
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by kimrh » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 8:06 pm

Reviving and old but very informative thread as getting questions on the various engine outputs for the W126 and good time to dig this up for our newer members to read
Cheers
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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Re: M117.968 output

Post by AMG » Sat 22 Feb, 2014 8:22 pm

Or you could teach them to use the SEARCH function in the top right corner .... :whistle:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: M117.968 output

Post by joskami » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 6:03 am

Hi
I have sec 560 my 4/1987 117.968
Can someone tell my engine type, -> Kat ECE RUF
I think that is 178kw
Car vin is WDB1260451A331316
Engine 117968 12 029960
EZL A0045453432

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Re: M117.968 output

Post by joskami » Mon 25 Dec, 2017 6:14 am

....

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kimrh
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by kimrh » Tue 26 Dec, 2017 12:59 pm

I believe your engine is a code 822 300hp /220kw "ECE"
Have a look at the white sticker on the radiator top cross-bracket right side above the headlight - it should state "ECE"
(ECE mean't it met the "Economic Commission for Europe" air pollution emissions standard set at that point in time.
It should have no Catalytic converter underneath (unless one has been fitted later by a previous owner)

Here is a good reference thread
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s- ... -part.html
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

joskami
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by joskami » Wed 27 Dec, 2017 1:38 am

Thanx , i read that topic still I don´t know my engine type...
motor 117968 12 029960
EPc give code 620 19951215 - AIR POLLUTION CONTROL

No code 882

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kimrh
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by kimrh » Wed 27 Dec, 2017 11:46 am

Your EZL indicates code 822 ECE engine (your manufacture date is also correct time for that spec engine)
However who knows what parts in the car have been swapped in the past 30 years of maintenance.

Post up some clear pics of -
The white sticker above your left side headlight on the cross bar
The actual engine # stamped on the rear of your block just behind the left head - looking down from above (clean it first with de-greaser)
It should show - 117968 12 029960 HV
Pic of the engine bay and the right side exhaust headers and also in the false firewall left side there should be an ignition timing trimmer knob (see pic of mine below)
Pic underneath of the exhaust downpipes where they come down underneath and back past the transmission and under the front floorpan
Pic- Is there a an engine oil cooler feeding via oil lines off the oil filter case on the right front of the engine (oil cooler in front of right wheel)
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87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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Re: M117.968 output

Post by joskami » Fri 29 Dec, 2017 5:47 am

Thankk you Mr. kimrh
Next weekend I have to look what I can found my car..

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Re: M117.968 output

Post by Mercmad » Thu 04 Jan, 2018 6:45 pm

i'm working on a 300PS 560 at the moment and have been going some of my old manuals to see what is what exactly. Strangely, the Idle and 3500 RPM timing specs for all of the Alloy M116-M117 V8's are almost the same regardless of which EZL is fitted. I have a blown EZL and the customer wants his car going so the only option I have is to fit one from a 420 , which means making a loom to connect the KEjet controller into the loom. The 10-1 560's in the Euro version have a lot of differences to the US and Australia versions , in that the EL is designed to prevent knocking from poor fuel and retard the spark when this occurs. The US versions are so low in compression you could run them on kerosene and the resulting Horsepower reflects this. One other thing the Euro 560 has is a transmission overload switch which cuts out when the trans is being overloaded (burnouts etc 0 no US version of Mercedes ever had this which is one reason you should listen to Dr Diesel and not the Americans :laughing6: .Japanese versions are the right hand drive versions of the German cars and the one I ma working on has the 155 MPH cut out built in to the speedo which kills the fuel pump relay at high speed. I doubt the US or OZ versions were ever that fast.

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kimrh
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Re: M117.968 output

Post by kimrh » Sat 06 Jan, 2018 7:24 pm

Yes i pulled one of my spare 300hp 560 engines out of storage this weekend and this one is the ECE 822 version run by the 4 pin EZL with manual timing trimmer as per my 500 ECE white coupe.

To better explain the engine # stamping at the rear of the left head on the block and also the 822 code stamped onto the back of the heads here are some pics-

I cleaned the engine down on Saturday and am going to remove the intake manifold and the heads as doing some secret squirrel mods to bump the power up

Gee what is it with this forum since the upgrade - every time i upload a pic now it always flips it sideways - never used to do that at all but now it is all the time - very annoying guys - the pics size are only small like around 100 to 140kb range
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87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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Re: M117.968 output

Post by hents99 » Sat 06 Jan, 2018 8:58 pm

Kim, please check camshaft numbers what you got there.

Btw. Sercret of power:
Image
560SEC, C55, W201 (2.3-16T + 2.5-16)

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Re: M117.968 output

Post by kimrh » Sun 07 Jan, 2018 1:48 am

Hi Hendrik - yes forced induction makes power easily but after coming from a prior life with superchargers i am keen now with the M117 to just stay Naturally aspirated and play with that - haha - sort of gone the full circle and like n/a now and all its challenges.

Pity you hadn't designed a better intake for n/a that still keeps the factory air cleaner and its twin intake snorkels as i like that factory look.
I am going to have a look into the plenum chamber - its capacity is only 2litres and the floor to ceiling only 50mm which is tight!!
Everything is tight in that valley.

Gee the floor of the plenum sits within mm of the valley (upper side of the cylinder walls) and boy it must get hot in there in summer conditions especially in slow moving traffic/stop start conditions - I suppose ok in cold climate countries but not conducive to hot conditions - no wonder those doughnut joiner rings (and the rubber air duct diaphragm to the throttle body go brittle after while with extreme heat cycling and cause vacuum leaks.

Anyway i pulled the intake manifold - that back left long bolt snapped on me as the thread is seized in the head and a small one up front left also snapped on me with a seized thread (will get my engine machine shop to sort that out)
And yes the cams were the later RUF ones 24/25 and not the earlier 16/17 (same cam profile anyway) so the engine must have been built after they