Aus custom order with US Specs Radelaide

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Ok I’m posting details seperately to get photos loaded later. I’ve bought what I’m told was a custom order in in Adelaide for a right hand drive 450sl with US specs. First thing I noticed was a catalytic fuel emissions sticker on the passenger door and took ten minutes and a YouTube video to find the bonnet lever was on the psssanger side . The metal plate in front of the radiator has:
7e 0707063 71
107044 12 02985 7
623h 623 h 6
518 531 587 592 639
416 440 467 494
Metal plate fixed In front of radiator

Make date 4/80
Brown sticker Sticker with 107 584 07 39 on edge

[CraigB]

someone might be able to help with details from your vin number. But any of the cars from this era at least had the bonnet opener on passenger side - something they must have considered not worth shifting. It would seem odd to custom order US that had less performance from heavier emission gear. Does it have bigger (I think uglier but each to their own) bumpers and round headlights? The most noticeable US features. Would make an interesting story but if incorrect the bright side will be a better performing car if local spec.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Yep has big black trim US bumpers and twin headlights . All I can think of is factory got US model and made right hand drive bud if I was ordering I would want the performance kept which makes me think is right hand drive factory standard or post market conversion. I do think it was custom order though as guy I bought from bought directly from original owner who was s doctor her in Adelaide and guy who bought from the doc is a genuine kinda guy.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Vin # wdb10704412063869.

[John Green]

Bad news....

107 its a W107 chassis
044 its a 450SL
1 its was originally a LHD vehicle
2 it is an automatic
02985 the body number
7 not sure
623h 623 h Light Ivory body and hard top, original paint brand was Spices Hecker
6 not sure
518 Becker Mexico radio (hopefully still there)
531 Electric antenna
587 Auto climate control and electric windows (Australian models never had the auto climate control)
592 Heat insulated glass (it has a green tint)
639 an odd code, most likely elimination of first aid kit and warning triangle
416 hard top mounted (as in not supplied in a separate box)
440 tempomat
467 central locking (would be interesting to see which side the master switch is on)
494 Version for California....

I would suggest a serious conversation with whoever told you it was a special order....

[John Green]

Vin # wdb10704412063869.

Post up the picture of where the chassis number is stamped? No 450SL I have ever seen started with "WDB". This did not start until the 380SL in 1981. It is common for people to add the WDB to earlier chassis numbers just because they think it should be there.

Early chassis number up to around 1981 looked like this:



Later looked like this:



Note. it is stamped into the radiator support panel drivers side of the bonnet lock.

[T-Modell]

Bad news.......
494 Version for California.... ....

That means a smashing 180hp ...
Thomas

[CraigB]

So out of your suggestions Hart, and the other info from JG, I reckon it is post market conversion to RHD. Does it have the service book with it? I find that interesting to see where it was serviced in its early life and that can help work out the mystery. Is the doctor still alive? Often they don't mind being contacted and remembering an old car and sometimes can get old photos. Sometimes doctors work in other countries, order there and then could have bought car home. Nice to know if a story behind it. My W113 i have the order papers and was from a Major in Oz army but must have been on some sort of secondment, a hand written receipt also in papers on 'British Army on the Rhine' letterhead paper. The order paper has hand written on it 'for australia'. The receipt was to an Adelaide guy - I spoke to his son (he died shortly before i bought the car) and he said the Major was a friend. Without finding the papers and getting the exact dates, the Adelaide guy must have drove it for some months over there and then shipped it out of Naples to Australia when about a year old - the son said they had family in Italy. Anyway, interesting if the car has a story and no time like the present to try and track it down.

One other suggestion if it has been in Adelaide most of its life is to go to the parts dept of Benz Adelaide and see if Peter (momentarily forgotten his surname) the manager and ask if he remembers anything about the car. He remembered a couple of my more unique local cars.

I've got an originally LHD 107 SLC that was converted and it all looks pretty much 'original' - in other words if you have bought the car to enjoy its not a huge deal I reckon and if your just cruising around in it the drop in HP not a huge deal either - just my thoughts. What reduced the HP? Is it compression, cams, manifolds, exhaust? Compression would probably be pistons and therefore difficult to change, but the rest not so hard to mod. Having had many benzes I found it interesting that even the LHD motor (although identical) has that same LHD code in the engine number. (ie 12 instead of 22)

And despite my negative personal preference mentioned on bumpers, it is fairly unique here but when you see them in film from the US, of course that is what they looked like - as in your Hart to Hart name. Nothing like a bit of variability in our local cars I reckon. Good luck to you and enjoy your car.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

I would say the guy I bought it from was told the story so I’ve asked him for the doctors name and if he bought direct or via a trader . The car looks in good condition the electronics are all out of whack and climate control doesn’t work bit dials are there.

[CraigB]

Good rust free car, good trim, good paint and mechanicals and you are crossing big numbers off the costs of ownership if buying one of these, so many cars can be dodgy in these areas and cost heaps to set that straight. Climate control can be a pain and i am not sure in that era what it is like (ie. like a W126 or I have seen W116 set ups on US 6.9s etc), particularly from US, but you can often find lots of info on this stuff from the Benzworld forum too that is largely US based. It can cost a bit but there are companies over there that sell reconditioned electronic units - if you scan through posts over about the last 2 days there is one there giving a link to one such company. The info on sorting it is probably out there on forums if you have time and patience to apply it you will minimise costs over having a $100+ and hour tech going through the system and maybe knowing less than you can teach yourself from forums. Factory CD manual (highly relevant to your US car) I think has lots of troubleshooting for CC on it. These are cheap off ebay from memory.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Vin pic

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

interestingly John,

I was originally going to buy this car last year while i was still living in Canberra and drive it back to ACT, i used to work in Fyshwick.

Would have been better to do my research then just jump the deep end and buy one! but hey ... i could say the same for my first husband too, but got a great son out of it so not all bad.

the car doesn't have the original Becker radio in it and wondered if this one on Ebay would fit my car.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-BECKER-ME ... 3070667746

cheers
Hart,

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Thanks Craig,

have ordered the DVD off Ebay and the tool for opening the roof.... and lets face it that's why i really bought the car 'to go roofless' in summer in a Benz celebrity style...!
and now i know its probably from California there is a real chance a celebrity owned it or at least some USD cash stuffed under the boot linings no one has found yet.

well one can hope cant they..

Cheers
Hart.

[CraigB]

1980 is on the cusp of my knowledge but I would say that mexico is too early for your car. The W126 models starting late 80's would have had a mexico that looked something like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Becker-Mexico- ... SwCxdarJBa
A bit earlier than that in style would be something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Becker-Europa- ... 0005.m1851

I'm not a Becker expert but generally speaking, each era has different level models - Europa base model and early at least just a radio, then upgrade was Mexico with cassette, then Grand Prix a bit flasher - rough guide. So your car you can tell had that Mexico level. All the radios are date stamped but not everyone will indicate that in an advert, but getting pretty pedantic to get exact year when you can't see that date hidden behind the dash when fitted.

Do you have any books with the car? Often the radio is shown in handbook and sometimes has its own handbook for radio in the pouch. If no books, worth asking previous owner if he has them, if he was a long term owner sometimes they get put into a filing cabinet and forgotten....then chucked later in a spring clean..... so worth asking.

[John Green]

Vin pic

well look at that, I just learn't something. I wonder if the USA spec cars had the WDB prefix earlier?

[John Green]

1980 is on the cusp of my knowledge but I would say that mexico is too early for your car. The W126 models starting late 80's would have had a mexico that looked something like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Becker-Mexico- ... SwCxdarJBa
A bit earlier than that in style would be something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Becker-Europa- ... 0005.m1851

I'm not a Becker expert but generally speaking, each era has different level models - Europa base model and early at least just a radio, then upgrade was Mexico with cassette, then Grand Prix a bit flasher - rough guide. So your car you can tell had that Mexico level. All the radios are date stamped but not everyone will indicate that in an advert, but getting pretty pedantic to get exact year when you can't see that date hidden behind the dash when fitted.

Do you have any books with the car? Often the radio is shown in handbook and sometimes has its own handbook for radio in the pouch. If no books, worth asking previous owner if he has them, if he was a long term owner sometimes they get put into a filing cabinet and forgotten....then chucked later in a spring clean..... so worth asking.

A 1979/198 Australian Spec 450SL would have had the Becker with the ugly looking big black knobs like the second one Craig has listed. The earlier radio was a lot more stylish IMHO.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Becker-Europa- ... 0005.m1851

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Ive got the owners manual, but its for the 450SL & 450SLC so the the booklet lists and shows pictures of both radio's a Europa and a Mexico Cassette, but doesn't clarify which one belongs to which model Etc.
I'm guessing but maybe the SLC had the Europa and SL has Mexico??
i've got a MB booklet on how to resuscitate an unconscious person but its all in German, another MB booklet on the facts about FM and FM stereo radio performance in automobiles .
a MB info card on how to use and set the cruise control lever. I found a safety breakdown reflector triangle and a medical kit in the boot.
no service book though.

still looking for that hidden cash under the linings...

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

actually now i'm having a closer look at the book, that Becker Mexico i found on Ebay looks exactly like the one printed in the booklet.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-BECKER-ME ... 3070667746. ok so i've worked out the radio. now to sort the climate control..!

geez I'm slipping down the gotta be an original MB rabbit hole so quickly...!

[CraigB]

OK, i think that is bad advice from me on referring to the handbook. It is possible that they have carried on using an old handbook or maybe lost the original and replaced with an older book. I would trust more what John said. What i noticed with these cars is that I think Becker were churning out these radios which have dates on them with month and year, which then go to the Benz factory and BMW etc and then get put in cars. I don't think they held them over in store to put into different cars with different styles - point being is that i think all the models from a certain date had the same radios and therefore yours would have had the one with knobs. But of course you can put in whatever you like but wanted to say that before you invest given I now think my earlier suggestion to look in handbook was wrong. As for 'ugly' - I reckon it is like my retracted comment about the bumpers - it was of the time and place with these cars. But you could have put an older one back then too, you should do what you think.

Also the comment of europa mexico and which one where - these were special cars and you got what you ordered (or what the dealer ordered to put on his floor I guess) and you know your original order form had Mexico because that is in your data that John translated. Also the slc was a considerably more expensive car than the SL and why less of them around, despite the fact that later used market and demand has put the higher value on the SL. A lot more flash materials in an slc i guess. I have seen some of the books that the dealers had back then when you wanted to order and it is fascinating the variety of options, fabrics etc etc available, but at cost, not like with lesser cars where you pretty much just had a few options.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Oh I agree the bumpers and knobs are ugly as but was thinking I should make it original. But after doing a lot of late night googling I’ve discovered the yanks love to fake it and I’ve found original copy fronted modern radios with USB and Bluetooth as soon as I saw all this stuff I was like ok I’m back out of the must be original rabbit hole. I won’t be buying any original bits with out checking part numbers etc and I’ve found a Wann motors sticker on the car that is really old so gonna booking for inspection and see what the issues are and any history etc.
and so the journey begins ....

[CraigB]

I agree with that, if you are using it the modern units work better. If you do track down an original it can sit on your shelf and be slid in there easily at any point if you want to make it look original.

Unless things have changed, Wanns have service records of what they have done going way back. There was a great mechanic that worked there for a long time, I think his name was Dave Williams and he may have opened another business or work for someone - if another Adelaide person reads this they may be able to fill in detail. These mechanics often remember, particularly something a bit different like yours. The other long term 'dealer' mechanic with a good memory I can think of is Eric Scheucher who was with BEA back in the 80's when my AMG car went there and he remembers it well. Eric has a business 'silver star service and resto' now at 953b Marion Road Mitchell Park and could be worth popping by there and asking if he recalls your car and can fill in any history. Just some thoughts.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Thanks Craig !
might drop in and see that guy you mentioned. Will be nice to get the history.

[TheMadRacoon]

i've got a MB booklet on how to resuscitate an unconscious person but its all in German

Trust the Swabians to think of everything, down to handling the dealer's post-service invoice

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Ok so the plot thickens.... I think I’ve tracked down the doctor that originally bought the car so have sent him an email and I’m waiting to see if he responds.
I’ve spoke to the seller and he’s gonna look for some old paperwork he was given with the car that’s been in storage and might have more of he cars history.

Interestingly I’m wondering the following ...
The car does have the standard compliance plate for California market with LHD but car is right hand drive.
I cant find any compliance plate showing it’s an AU certified approved after market conversion to RHD. From what I can tell, I can’t see that any backyard dodgy chain drive conversion has been done either. So could MB have got a standard US spec car and put right hand drive in factory with a US standard compliance plate and shipped to AU ?

It doesn’t really matter at the end of the day but now I’m curious to know the history of this car

[John Green]

So could MB have got a standard US spec car and put right hand drive in factory with a US standard compliance plate and shipped to AU ?

In a word NO, MB have been known to do some special one off cars over the years especially for people who are prepared to pay for them. If it was built RHD it would have a RHD chassis number.

I used to own a W123 series 240D that was delivered new into the USA, it was RHD and Australian Spec.

[CraigB]

Its a fairly straight forward conversion and I believe steering box etc is the same as locally common W114. On the converted car i have, when you remove trim under dash you can see neat welds where they have flipped over the lower under dash brace. Main part would be the crash pad. In other words not difficult to do a good quality conversion.

[John Green]

Its a fairly straight forward conversion and I believe steering box etc is the same as locally common W114.

Not quite. It visually is the same, but the ratio is differant. many years ago we were accused of getting the wheel alignment wrong on a W107 when the owner compared his turning circle with another W107 whilst they were both doing a U turn on a club run. Short version of a longer story is that we established that the W107 with the bigger turning circle had a W114 steering box in it. Both the ratio (turns lock to lock) and the sweep of the sector shaft were differant.

It makes sense when you think about it, as the wheel base is differant.

[brycedunn]

Vin pic

well look at that, I just learn't something. I wonder if the USA spec cars had the WDB prefix earlier?

17 digit VIN was required in the USA earlier. Later (mid 80s) the USA cars got a different VIN system which is different from the chassis number.,

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Ok, so i've booked it in with Eric and from what we can work out this car looks like its lived its first life on the west coast of USA, and then shipped out to Australia, The Dr hasn't responded to the emails, and it does look like a post market drive conversion of sorts has happened. so the story of a special order with MB is all fairy dust, i'm guessing but most likely sprinkled by sales man at the car yard that sold it to the previous owner.

I've got a bit of work that needs doing and its going to cost a bit, which was disappointing to discover but i think it def needs to be done. so the car isn't quite what i was told it was, but its not in bad condition either and no rust issues on the car so that a relief, just a bit on the hard top which i can get fixed or a replacement top, so not all doom and gloom.
when the car was up on the hoist there was a plastic zip tie securing what i think was the sway-bar on the back right side of the car. Eric had a god laugh when he saw it , when i saw the zip tie i was like ok..what else will we discover and what the hell was i thinking to go buy a car without getting an independent inspection done.

The real issue is sorting out the loose steering and spongy brakes. hopefully when the steering box is checked there are no nasty surprises to be found . once i get the brakes, discs, new tyres and a wheel alignment all done i should be able to relax a bit and enjoy the car before doing up the cosmetic stuff.

so that's my tale of woe, but now the journey begins.... how much will i spend pimping up my dream car and why didn't i just go for a 560SL now I'm discovering them.... oh that's right they cost even more $$$ than a 450SL.

Hart

[John Green]

Did Eric check the front subframe?

https://www.mbspares.com.au/Service/W10 ... uilds.aspx

[CraigB]

It doesn't sound like a horror story and i've definitely heard much worse. It does support getting an expert like Eric to check things out first and blowing away myths that sellers come out with. If it was a dealer coming out with those comments I wonder how they would respond if you said "so you know this stuff for sure - you don't mind me recording you on my phone". But did Eric recognise the car? Not many US trim cars in Adelaide and the amount of time he worked for the main dealer, stranger things would happen than for him to have seen it before. As for the 560, if you have heaps of spare cash and looking for potential capital gain (based on being the 'best' model and relative rarity) then sure, but if you like the style and want to use it - plus insurance etc and having cash tied up then there are a lot of good arguments for the 450. Will you use that extra power, in normal driving how much difference to handling of the lighter engine .......for a sizeable premium for something that looks basically the same. But just based on the number of 450's available, you would think the demand for the 560 and therefore driving up of price is always likely to be the biggest difference. Buying one 10 or so years ago would make more sense.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Eric didn’t seem to recall the car at all. It’s been in the Hills for 18 years and who knows before then.
As for the 560’s well I’m just dreaming I don’t have the $$$$ for that. Besides I’ve gotta start saving up for a second hand G wagon. Should be able to get one in 10 years.
I won’t even mention I saw a Bentley continental convertible parked at burnside shops the other day and googled it, that thing is 4x4 6ltr V12 ..WTF is that all about.
And yep John the sub frame has been fixed, Eric and I spotted the 2 triangle brackets welded to the sub frame with what appeared to be factory made brackets and not some cheap fix. Was all in place with no rust or cracks etc. Eric said the sub frame fix had been done properly and nothing to worry about there. I should have taken some pics but I was so nervous about what we might find I forgot to get the phone out.
I should have the car back ready to drive in a couple of weeks, after Eric does the brakes and sorts out the steering and a few other bits.

I took out the soft top and it’s dark brown canvas and it’s in really good condition but the plastic is stained so I’ve gotta find some plastic cleaner and hope I don’t ruin it. And I’m looking for 14 inc rims as I’ve got either 15’s or 16’s (I forget) on atm.
I found 3 original Wheel covers in my car colour on eBay so got 1 more cover to find.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

And now some pics . That chunk of bloody metal that looks like foil should have told me it wasn’t a factory conversion but I really wanted to believe the story. But I still love this car and can’t wait for summer driving with the roof off.

[CraigB]

There was a conversation on here not that long ago about how you can still find original tops on cars. If you can't clean up the windows, you may be able to get new ones bonded into it. Maybe ask Eric if he can recommend anyone - just thinking how he used to work for Mercedes all those years and I am sure they may have directed that sort of job to local experts over the years. I think there is a range of quality in those windows so if going to the effort of having new ones put in you would want the best materials you can. Whole replacement tops aren't crazy money but great to utilise what you have if you can.

With wheels, most common on your 'late' model car would be bundt wheels (google bundt wheel images and lots of examples will come up). It would have been a 14 x 6.5 wheel. If you prefer the hubcaps though, you would be looking for the same size.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Eric mentioned the bunt wheels. Ok will google them. My pics won’t load for some reason. Will try again later .

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Oh the bundt’s look awesome. Ok bundt’s it’s gonna be. the coloured hubs can be wall decorations to pimp my garage walls with. lucky they were cheap.

[CraigB]

There was a time when bundts were very easy to find but I am sure it won't be that hard. Just be aware that they came in a number of widths and with your V8 car you really want to get the correct 6.5 width (the same looking wheel can be 5.5 and 6 inch. I am pretty sure the part number will start with 108 and you would find them from anything from a V8 W108, V8 W116 (350/450 SE/SEL or any 107 ) - I have seen them turn up in upullit too but you need to keep going there and paying your $2 to be able to look. If you want them in a hurry I am sure there would be a set at euro carparts or city dismantlers but you would be paying a premium there.

With photos, after uploading you have to put your cursor in the message and then click 'place inline' to make it work - just in case that is the problem

[CraigB]

also not sure if it is same offset and i have a feeling it is cast and not forged, but wheels from the pre 85 W126 look basically the same and might all be 6.5 - these have a part number starting with 126 but chances are will do the job. To see the part number you have to look from the back and cast into the back of the 'spokes' - might need to clean it up a bit. Not 'correct' for your car but if offset was the same, I don't think anyone would notice.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

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[Hart to Hart 450SL]

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[Hart to Hart 450SL]

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[Hart to Hart 450SL]

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[Hart to Hart 450SL]

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[Hart to Hart 450SL]

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[edenning]

Hart your car looks like it is in great condition, congratulations on your purchase.

I will post a photo of my car as purchased with 15" rims and then the 14" bundts where I hand polished the lips on the rims.

IMG_1623.JPG

cheers Evan

ps Craig B is a great source of information and help.

[edenning]

[attachment=0]IMG_1619.JPG[/attachment

14" Bundts look better in my opinion.

[CraigB]

Agreed, it does look like a really clean car and that's not easy to find. You can understand people fitting 'updated' wheels, especially back in the day but agree the bundts look great and a better fit to the period of the car in my opinion.

Side topic - the US spec does give it a unique look, especially here, and it does look like all those cars we knew in American movies and TV but just thought I would mention/ask - I wrecked a burnt out 380sl - an oz delivered car but it had a US bumper on the rear - maybe swapped on there to put it somewhere after it became a wreck. From what i could see it is the same body and just a matter of getting an Oz bumper and brackets and a few bolts later and it would bolt straight up. I can't vouch for the front but would imagine it was much the same. Only other thing i think is the headlights and if you look at the avatar in the signature of 'AMG', it shows a pic of the US lights on the front of an Oz car and its not a bad look. Just thought i would mention.

[Hart to Hart 450SL]

Hi Even, and thanks for the congrats as I was so excited to buy it and was worried I had made a mistake. And yes very appreciative of Craig’s advice. So right about the bundt’s . Evan your silver SL looks awesome. I think all those US movies n TV shows from the 80’s got me suckered in. The penny didn’t drop till after I bought the car that it looked liked the one Stephanie Powers character Jennifer drove, and let’s not mention Bobby Ewing.

[TheMadRacoon]

Ah, the 1980s....


https://youtu.be/HFekKTU6iN8

[edenning]

Hi Hart,
Have a look under General MB related spotted and you will see the American model I saw yesterday, except yours isn't missing one of the overriders. The American headlights look real nice in my opinion.
Hope you get it back real soon to enjoy.