Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

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astroe
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Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 12:44 am

Hi all,

This is related to my whole "fan blower won't work" saga - it's practically all I post ever about!

So I had a look at my fuse box today and was pretty perplexed.
IMG_9839.JPG
There's no #12 fuse for the fan blower, and it says "outside", handwritten on the fuse key.
IMG_9840.JPG
Lo and behold there's a small little offshoot to the side, with a part number starting 123...
IMG_9841.JPG
And inside it?
IMG_9842.JPG

I'm really confused - is this normal?
What is going on?!
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T-Modell
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by T-Modell » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 12:59 am

Hi,
on No 12 there's two stars, which says on the bottom that with automatic aircon the fuse's outside ...
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
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astroe
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 9:49 am

T-Modell wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 12:59 am
Hi,
on No 12 there's two stars, which says on the bottom that with automatic aircon the fuse's outside ...
Thomas
I thought I had Tempmatik and not the automatic air conditioning anyway? (The dual zone one rather than the single temperature control one).

Even if that’s the case, the wiring job on the outside looks pretty... haphazard.
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Henry Schuman
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by Henry Schuman » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 12:19 pm

Back in the day a lot of those period autos had overload with the Blower Motors and a Service Bulletin was issued to Relocate the Blower Motor Fuse to the outside and a Higher Amp Fuse however I never saw ( Noticed) the indications listed in this post on the Fuse Box Description.
Good Eye T-Model .
If you look closely at that fuse area #12 you can see it looks like melted plastic thus indicating an over heating problem >
Don't Squat With Your Spurs On !!!!

astroe
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 2:46 pm

Henry Schuman wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 12:19 pm
Back in the day a lot of those period autos had overload with the Blower Motors and a Service Bulletin was issued to Relocate the Blower Motor Fuse to the outside and a Higher Amp Fuse however I never saw ( Noticed) the indications listed in this post on the Fuse Box Description.
Good Eye T-Model .
If you look closely at that fuse area #12 you can see it looks like melted plastic thus indicating an over heating problem >
Noted - but does the outside fuse box look weird at all? It’s held together with electrical tape and inside the fuse box there’s just a screwed in metal plate?
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by T-Modell » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 5:30 pm

Hi this seems to be ok, might be a 50A fuse ... have a look here: https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/Mercede ... ment/20410

The number is mainly referred to as a glow plug fuse ...
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by John Green » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 6:42 pm

T-Modell wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 5:30 pm
Hi this seems to be ok, might be a 50A fuse ... have a look here: https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/Mercede ... ment/20410

The number is mainly referred to as a glow plug fuse ...
Thomas
Melted fuse holders in the W124 fuse box are common, Henry is right there was even a MB tech bulletin about it. However I would be concerned with the size of that fuse they have put in. As you can see the original fuse is 24 amps. It does look like you now have a 50 amp fuse....
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astroe
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:44 pm

John Green wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 6:42 pm
T-Modell wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 5:30 pm
Hi this seems to be ok, might be a 50A fuse ... have a look here: https://de.ifixit.com/Anleitung/Mercede ... ment/20410

The number is mainly referred to as a glow plug fuse ...
Thomas
Melted fuse holders in the W124 fuse box are common, Henry is right there was even a MB tech bulletin about it. However I would be concerned with the size of that fuse they have put in. As you can see the original fuse is 24 amps. It does look like you now have a 50 amp fuse....
Sorry for the dumb question but what would the implication of having a 50 amp fuse instead of a 24 amp fuse be?
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by T-Modell » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:54 pm

astroe wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:44 pm
...Sorry for the dumb question but what would the implication of having a 50 amp fuse instead of a 24 amp fuse be?
The current is what kills, not the voltage. If you have some electrical equipment that can handle e. g. 30 Ampere and you have a fuse of 25A, it is safe, as the fuse blows up, before the current gets too high (e. g. short cut). If you put a 50A fuse in it, it will allow currents up to 50A, so it could kill whatever's connected.

Similar to the old "Elektrotechnik" say: the transistor protects the fuse by blowing up first :laughing6: ... happened to me once at university ... luckily, this transistor really protected the whole rest of the circuit board :whistle:

Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

astroe
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 8:33 pm

T-Modell wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:54 pm
astroe wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:44 pm
...Sorry for the dumb question but what would the implication of having a 50 amp fuse instead of a 24 amp fuse be?
The current is what kills, not the voltage. If you have some electrical equipment that can handle e. g. 30 Ampere and you have a fuse of 25A, it is safe, as the fuse blows up, before the current gets too high (e. g. short cut). If you put a 50A fuse in it, it will allow currents up to 50A, so it could kill whatever's connected.

Similar to the old "Elektrotechnik" say: the transistor protects the fuse by blowing up first :laughing6: ... happened to me once at university ... luckily, this transistor really protected the whole rest of the circuit board :whistle:

Regards
Thomas
Thanks Thomas!

So essentially I need to find an auto electrician to swap out the fuse for a lower one!
Unless anyone here knows what the amp limit for the fan blower motor is? :)
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by T-Modell » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 8:35 pm

Well the fuse box says 25A ... sounds right to me ...
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

Henry Schuman
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by Henry Schuman » Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:41 pm

astroe wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 8:33 pm
T-Modell wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:54 pm
astroe wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:44 pm
...Sorry for the dumb question but what would the implication of having a 50 amp fuse instead of a 24 amp fuse be?
The current is what kills, not the voltage. If you have some electrical equipment that can handle e. g. 30 Ampere and you have a fuse of 25A, it is safe, as the fuse blows up, before the current gets too high (e. g. short cut). If you put a 50A fuse in it, it will allow currents up to 50A, so it could kill whatever's connected.

Similar to the old "Elektrotechnik" say: the transistor protects the fuse by blowing up first :laughing6: ... happened to me once at university ... luckily, this transistor really protected the whole rest of the circuit board :whistle:

Regards
Thomas
Thanks Thomas!

So essentially I need to find an auto electrician to swap out the fuse for a lower one!
Unless anyone here knows what the amp limit for the fan blower motor is? :)

What was happening is that the Original fitment in the Big Plastic Fuse box the wire ends got hot enough to Melt the plastic that held the brass retainers so they would move away from the Fuse causing arcing thus killing the otherwise Good circuit but rarely blowed the fuse but rather not allow a good connection so the motor would quit until you wiggled the fuse or bent the prong in on the fuse holder to make a better connection and eventually it just would not hold enough Tension so the Wise Old Cobblers decided to post a Bulletin to remotely mount a sturdier holder which was already being done by Ingenious MECHANICS :wave: :occasion5: ahead of the Engineers to remedy this oversight of plastic thickness/ heat non tolerant crap they originally put in.

I agree that a 50 Amp fuse is too much and the wire thickness was not Engineered for such a load and the mounting/ Electrical Taping Jury Rig is not of the Quality I would do . I would Recommend at least a Smaller fuse plate of 25 amps (and I think they are Available) and it is easy to replace by just loosening the two phillips screw had and removing the 50 AMP strip then slide in the 25 and retighten the screws and you are good to go.
Now SHOULD this 25 Amp Fuse Blow I would look into a NEW Blower Motor cause yours is on on the way out!
Don't Squat With Your Spurs On !!!!

astroe
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Mon 13 Aug, 2018 12:00 am

Henry Schuman wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 11:41 pm
astroe wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 8:33 pm
T-Modell wrote:
Sun 12 Aug, 2018 7:54 pm


The current is what kills, not the voltage. If you have some electrical equipment that can handle e. g. 30 Ampere and you have a fuse of 25A, it is safe, as the fuse blows up, before the current gets too high (e. g. short cut). If you put a 50A fuse in it, it will allow currents up to 50A, so it could kill whatever's connected.

Similar to the old "Elektrotechnik" say: the transistor protects the fuse by blowing up first :laughing6: ... happened to me once at university ... luckily, this transistor really protected the whole rest of the circuit board :whistle:

Regards
Thomas
Thanks Thomas!

So essentially I need to find an auto electrician to swap out the fuse for a lower one!
Unless anyone here knows what the amp limit for the fan blower motor is? :)

What was happening is that the Original fitment in the Big Plastic Fuse box the wire ends got hot enough to Melt the plastic that held the brass retainers so they would move away from the Fuse causing arcing thus killing the otherwise Good circuit but rarely blowed the fuse but rather not allow a good connection so the motor would quit until you wiggled the fuse or bent the prong in on the fuse holder to make a better connection and eventually it just would not hold enough Tension so the Wise Old Cobblers decided to post a Bulletin to remotely mount a sturdier holder which was already being done by Ingenious MECHANICS :wave: :occasion5: ahead of the Engineers to remedy this oversight of plastic thickness/ heat non tolerant crap they originally put in.

I agree that a 50 Amp fuse is too much and the wire thickness was not Engineered for such a load and the mounting/ Electrical Taping Jury Rig is not of the Quality I would do . I would Recommend at least a Smaller fuse plate of 25 amps (and I think they are Available) and it is easy to replace by just loosening the two phillips screw had and removing the 50 AMP strip then slide in the 25 and retighten the screws and you are good to go.
Now SHOULD this 25 Amp Fuse Blow I would look into a NEW Blower Motor cause yours is on on the way out!
Thank you Henry - as it turns out, the car was purchased with a non-working fan blower motor and John the admin has been able to sell me one and it should be with me in the next few days.

Will definitely sort out the wiring issue so I don't have to get another motor...
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astroe
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Mon 13 Aug, 2018 12:34 am

Looks like the lowest I can find is 30 amps. Too high?
Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 12.31.53 am.png
Alternatively I could replace the whole box thing that accepts a style of fuse that is available in 24 amps.
Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 12.32.33 am.png
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by Henry Schuman » Mon 13 Aug, 2018 6:44 am

astroe wrote:
Mon 13 Aug, 2018 12:34 am
Looks like the lowest I can find is 30 amps. Too high?
Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 12.31.53 am.png

Alternatively I could replace the whole box thing that accepts a style of fuse that is available in 24 amps.
Screen Shot 2018-08-13 at 12.32.33 am.png
I think you should be ok with a new motor and the \fuse .
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by John Green » Mon 13 Aug, 2018 12:59 pm

The fuse in the outside holder, should have its amperage stamped into it, remove it and have a look.
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by benzy53 » Sun 19 Aug, 2018 9:45 am

Hi astroe

If you look at the wiring diagram it shows that the blower motor is protected via a 25 amps fuse in the fuse box.
The two stars refer to the option for heated seats. ( I believe not available in OZ ). As the seat heating was connected
to fuse 12 as well it was placed outside. Over the years I had 14 W124 ( currently down to 3 ) and never seen an outside fuse and never any
issue with the blower motor. If you live in Melbourne you are more than welcome to PM me.

Regards benzy53

astroe
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by astroe » Mon 20 Aug, 2018 10:30 am

benzy53 wrote:
Sun 19 Aug, 2018 9:45 am
Hi astroe

If you look at the wiring diagram it shows that the blower motor is protected via a 25 amps fuse in the fuse box.
The two stars refer to the option for heated seats. ( I believe not available in OZ ). As the seat heating was connected
to fuse 12 as well it was placed outside. Over the years I had 14 W124 ( currently down to 3 ) and never seen an outside fuse and never any
issue with the blower motor. If you live in Melbourne you are more than welcome to PM me.

Regards benzy53
Hmm... that is concerning to say the least.
Will send you a PM.
Current car: 1994 W124 E280 in Brilliant Silver

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T-Modell
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Re: Funny Business with the Fuse Box...

Post by T-Modell » Mon 20 Aug, 2018 5:31 pm

benzy53 wrote:
Sun 19 Aug, 2018 9:45 am
...The two stars refer to the option for heated seats. ( I believe not available in OZ ). As the seat heating was connected
to fuse 12 as well it was placed outside. ...
Hi,
I disagree with that conclusion. Imho, there's two foot notes. One refers to an outside fusebox in case of seat heating and trailer coupling. This has no stars, separated by a line.

The two stars only refer to fuse 12 (blower motor) AND in case of automatic climate control this fuse is outside the box. Imho it could be another separate out-of-the-fuse-box fuse.

So what I would do: Follow the cable from the blower motor and see where it ends. Put a 25A fuse in and all is good. If you want to know it 110%, then you have to get a wiring diagram of your car with those specs ...

Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

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