Classic EV?

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300TDT
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Classic EV?

Post by 300TDT » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 12:57 pm

I know there was a guy on here that was putting an electric motor into a C123 in Perth a few years ago.
Does anyone know what happened to that?

There are a few companies in UK, USA etc that are putting electric motors into classic cars (VW Kombi, Range Rover, Fiat bambino, BMW 2002, etc).
Is there anything similar here in Aus?
it might be time to consider how to keep our old cars when the world has gone electric...
Last edited by 300TDT on Wed 24 Jan, 2018 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'82 300TD Turbo : '83 model, LHD, auto, anthracite grey, cream cloth, chassis: 380,000km, engine: 195,000km.

Ivanerrol
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Re: EV?

Post by Ivanerrol » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 1:07 pm

Don't hold your breath.
By the time of electric vehicles we will be long gone.

F.W.I.W. I met a battery company guy a few weeks ago. He was driving a Mercedes Benz C300e - e for electric.
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Bartman4800
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Re: EV?

Post by Bartman4800 » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 1:37 pm

There is are a few companies in Perth that sell all the parts to convert just about any vehicle into an EV.

A mate of mine converted a Hilux ute into an EV.
The guy from the shop convinced him to remove his gearbox.
I argued that having a gearbox has so many advantages, mostly the ability to cope with reaction forces and being able to change the speed range.

He went without the gearbox, and it resulted in an extremely fast acceleration and not much of top speed or action radius....

It's fairly easy to power the car with an electric motor, however getting the auxiliaries to work is far harder.
You now have to find an electric driven power steering pump, aircon, vacuum pump and a few more...

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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70499
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by 70499 » Wed 24 Jan, 2018 7:25 pm

I noticed on the road today a van with EV car 24/7 Roadside Assist.

So it looks like old and "new" technology all have some similar problems.
Brad.

unheardofinstruments
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by unheardofinstruments » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 2:52 am

I have a carry van ev and am working on a 91 rx7 savanah (not quite vintage rego ready yet) both with lithium packs 18000 and 38000Ah respectively. The rx7 has advanced magnetics 9.1" dc motor (2k) 1000A controller (1.6k) at 144V it has about 410Nm of torque from standstill so should be good range and very fast whereas the carry is light so decent range too if I go slow (best to do so anyhow given the handling and the drag coefficient is bricklike) and it's a bit more useful for missions. I have a friend who wants me to do her Austin A40 1950 ute so I have a Nissan Leaf battery pack re-purposed for that brewing up too. None of the donor vehicles ran and were very cheap. Looking forward to no hoses, plugs, filter, oil, coolant, exhaust, heat, sound, fuel and having one moving part in the motor. Seems like a no braner to me now we have the batteries we always dreamed of and stuff like graphene supercaps in the wings. the EV age is here already, in 20 years no more production of i.c.e and 20 years after that no registering them either, that is the plan. I want to do a porsche 924 martini that has been on the backburner for a few years next because it is the most fun to drive of any car ever in my experience and with gobs of silent power it will be awesome. My mercs I love but they are a bit heavy (therefore high rolling resistance) for good range as an EV but aero mods are incredibly effective. I paid 10k (now it's get-able for 6-ish like the 120V of leaf cells the carry got) for the big battery pack but that should do at least 20 years and pay for itself in two. (I burn a bit of fuel out here in the country.)

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Re: Classic EV?

Post by unheardofinstruments » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 3:40 am

To the advantage of old classics as nicer looking donors is power steering and heaps of wiring is not necessarily as much of a feature as with modern cars so a simple glorified golf cart is adequate simplicity. What you need other than the (2-3k) motor and controller is a 12V vacuum pump and reservoir and vac switch to make a light come on to tell you the brake booster is not working for a lack of nothingness, an emergency cutoff big red button nearby for freaky stuff, 12V hairdryer for demisting, g-force activated cutoff switch like for airbags for the chunky relay you need to shut off in case of an accident, big orange coloured cabling so if you crash the rescue guys know what not to cut, a few simple interlocks so you don't turn on the key with the accelerator down or drive off with it plugged into the wall, a pack voltage to 14.2V DC to DC converter to be your alternator impersonator, otherwise watch you don't go too heavy or shift the weight too far, make sturdy battery boxes and do good electric wiring and install a battery managment system to balance the cells and you have the current national code of practice for alternatively powered vehicles (NCOP14) covered in a nutshell, about 800 bucks to engineer it and you are away. Vintage modified club rego on the log books 46 buck including insurance. about 3 bucks to fill up for your 250k range or less off peak or free if you have waste composting preheater woodchip and lawn clipping powered solar parabolic rankine cycle sterling engined compound steam engine heat pump peltier diode, syngas biochar generator setup like I use in my dreams you could distill ethanol for fun and profit with the waste heat from the shower and use your urine to power a tesla wall and save the earth at the same time. In america the government gives you an 8000 dollar rebate when you register an electric car but now I am dreaming... Thanks to EV works in WA their side has charge points up and down for years already we in the east are far along now too.

merc-304
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by merc-304 » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 9:06 am

Mighty Boy EV.com - a conversion from few years ago but a good read.
380 SEC

Rizz280s
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by Rizz280s » Fri 07 Sep, 2018 12:28 am

I've gotten excited about EV conversions many times and stayed up late through the night trying to convince myself it would be worth it, but every time I come to the same conclusion - all the gear is too expensive at this stage for a car I dont drive often enough. Thanks for the comprehensive checklist though!

$10k for a minimum-requirement battery.
$3k for a decent motor (in Aus)
Another $2k for vacuum pumps, wiring, plugs, misc..
A lot of fiddling around (the fun, but time consuming part)

As much as it is the dream to leave the traffic in the dust, with only the sound of the wind and the squeak of the suspension, its still too expensive to justify. Until we get some electric cars being sold in good numbers, going cheap second hand or written off by insurance companies, I dont think we'll have cheap parts for a long time yet. I like the way you think though!

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Re: Classic EV?

Post by Fozza » Sat 02 Feb, 2019 5:33 pm

I appreciate this thread - thanks to all who have contributed.

Here is a curly MOD Squad request - all and any replies welcome.

As someone who is NOT particularly mechanically minded but LOVES my Mercedes.....I'm trying to balance a "LET US NOT":

1. Knowingly contribute further to global warming if we can avoid it' (it being a clear existential reality unless you've got your head in a vat of sump oil or think Tony Abbot or Donald Trump are rational human beings)
2. Allow beautiful classic Mercedes to leave the road simply because they were built in the era of "What is a greenhouse gas? Is that when my indoor plants breaks wind?" I'm a huge fan of Merc design/aesthetics and engineering quality - let us not allow them to diminish their presence on the road!
3.Contribute to the multitude of non recyclable 'plastic rice bubbles' that pass for a 'motor vehicle' on the road today by buying one for a 'daily driver'.
4. Spend an inordinate amount of my weekly wage on motor vehicle fuel costs.

The above are aspirational principles. It's a tight spot I find myself in I know. To make in tighter I only want to drive old Mercs. And I only want a Merc as a daily driver without a significant carbon footprint ("You may call me a dreamer")!

Dreams:
1. I've investigated the OM617 in a W123 as biodiesel option - but haven't been convinced this is a good way to go given the availability of biodiesel and the potential impacts on the vehicle.
2. I've fantasised about an EV conversation to a W108. This is my favourite Merc chassis!! If it could work it would be ideal and a car 'for life'. But the cost!!

Reality:
1. I've a W123 230E on dual fuel as my daily driver - ticks the economy, carbon footprint, and style categories. Good for now.
2. I've also a W123 diesel (300D) I'm about to put back on the road. Could go on biodiesel - but I don't know enough to know if this a a good idea/really possible.
2. I've a W108 shell that could take any power plant that will fit. EV is the fantasy.

In summary - I'd prefer to spend $30K + on a classic modified Merc as a daily driver that I can pass on to my kids rather than buy a plastic rice bubble as a daily and have a 'purist' classic Merc I only take out on weekends or occasionally to club meets.

All and any advice welcome. Anything from outrageously divergent eco-views to outraged petrolhead fundamentalism is welcome.

Any takers?!
Best
Fozza
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 (Betty)
1978 W123 230 (Under reconstruction as a 300D!)
1980 W123 300D (Simply Red - Gone to a young enthusiast)
1989 W126 300SEL (Zsa Zsa - daily driver)
1989 W126 300SE (The Yakuza Staff Car - gone to a good home)

tsharkey
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by tsharkey » Mon 04 Feb, 2019 10:20 pm

Fozza wrote:
Sat 02 Feb, 2019 5:33 pm
2. I've also a W123 diesel (300D) I'm about to put back on the road. Could go on biodiesel - but I don't know enough to know if this a a good idea/really possible.
Making BioDiesel is a very straight forward process and made to a high standard by filtering and washing, the OM617 will operate with little impact. I have been doing it for 10+ years now.

However, am interested in the W108 going electric. That would be classy.
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD English 5 Speed Manual
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1982 300D - OM617 NA (Hektor) - Son's
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

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300TDT
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by 300TDT » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 2:52 pm

Lots of comments about the cost being prohibitive.
The way I see it, the 20K or so for a suitable EV conversion is still much cheaper than buying a new EV (whenever they might become available here).
And probably significantly less for many years to come.
And get to keep the car we love (without all those little NLA parts we love so much - VCV LOL)
But obviously I'm not a purist collector. Sale of good working engine etc might reduce costs further.

I was talking with a company that does truck EV conversions. They said come back at the end of the year when they expect it to be far more affordable.
'82 300TD Turbo : '83 model, LHD, auto, anthracite grey, cream cloth, chassis: 380,000km, engine: 195,000km.

Djenka018
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by Djenka018 » Wed 06 Feb, 2019 9:23 pm

The way I see it, the 20K or so for a suitable EV conversion is still much cheaper than buying a new EV (whenever they might become available here).
Indeed.
But faulty prius or any factory made and certified road legal EV will have some resale value. Reasonable expectation by all buyers of new EV's
Homemade EV 10x better made than any Tesla or Prius will have limited resale market, close to 'several' people whom understand/understood the conversion.
Until mods become PnP kit that any Billy Bob can work on... all the money placed in the EV classic will be stuck close to indefinitely.
But the fun would be immense and no one with available resources and willpower should be discouraged from these conversions, as long as expectations are set to be realistic.
just my tupence
'80 450SLC 3-continental

Fozza
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by Fozza » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 12:21 pm

tsharkey wrote:
Mon 04 Feb, 2019 10:20 pm
Fozza wrote:
Sat 02 Feb, 2019 5:33 pm
2. I've also a W123 diesel (300D) I'm about to put back on the road. Could go on biodiesel - but I don't know enough to know if this a a good idea/really possible.
Making BioDiesel is a very straight forward process and made to a high standard by filtering and washing, the OM617 will operate with little impact. I have been doing it for 10+ years now.

However, am interested in the W108 going electric. That would be classy.
Nice - thanks - pm'd you for a quick chat - could use some education!
Best
Fozza
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 (Betty)
1978 W123 230 (Under reconstruction as a 300D!)
1980 W123 300D (Simply Red - Gone to a young enthusiast)
1989 W126 300SEL (Zsa Zsa - daily driver)
1989 W126 300SE (The Yakuza Staff Car - gone to a good home)

Fozza
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Posts: 49
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Model you own: I own multiple different models
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by Fozza » Sun 17 Feb, 2019 12:32 pm

Djenka018 wrote:
Wed 06 Feb, 2019 9:23 pm
The way I see it, the 20K or so for a suitable EV conversion is still much cheaper than buying a new EV (whenever they might become available here).
Indeed.
But faulty prius or any factory made and certified road legal EV will have some resale value. Reasonable expectation by all buyers of new EV's
Homemade EV 10x better made than any Tesla or Prius will have limited resale market, close to 'several' people whom understand/understood the conversion.
Until mods become PnP kit that any Billy Bob can work on... all the money placed in the EV classic will be stuck close to indefinitely.
But the fun would be immense and no one with available resources and willpower should be discouraged from these conversions, as long as expectations are set to be realistic.
just my tupence
Agreed. Realistic expectations are needed. The little research I've done indicates a W108 EV classic conversion is possible - but there are conflicting views. One issue seems to be the weight of the vehicle vs power/distance of current EV setups. Balance this against EV tech developments and there could be a bright future. I personally don't care about resale value. If I did this, I'm driving it until I'm doing a "Prince Phillip". Must say I'd prefer to be driving a 108 EV than any Tesla or even a modern EV Merc! No comparison - style is style - and its peak was back in the 60's-80's (call me old fashioned...).
Best
Fozza
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 (Betty)
1978 W123 230 (Under reconstruction as a 300D!)
1980 W123 300D (Simply Red - Gone to a young enthusiast)
1989 W126 300SEL (Zsa Zsa - daily driver)
1989 W126 300SE (The Yakuza Staff Car - gone to a good home)

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3DB
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by 3DB » Tue 21 May, 2019 9:50 pm

Fozza - Tony from West Oz has been running straight veggie oil in various W123 & W124s for possibly decades. The OM617 is possibly the most renowned engine for biofuels. I have run nothing but 100% home-made biodiesel in mine for the the last 3 years and my Rodeo ute for 6 years. It is a good option if you can either make it yourself or find someone locally who will sell you some. Being in the Lismore area I reckon you will find someone. Check out the Biofuels Forum https://www.biofuelsforum.com

I also love the idea of an EV conversion and it has been on my mind a lot lately too.

I recall years ago in ReNew magazine where someone converted a Diahatsu Charade for $8,000 including purchase of the car. There was a company converting Hyundai i30s a few years ago, but I don't think they could make it work financially. I think there would be a good business opportunity for someone to do this on classic cars in Australia like these guys in the US who have done a mid 60's Mustang, Ferrari 308 and now working on a 40-series LandCruiser short wheelbase https://www.electricgt.com
3DB
1976 W123 300D (weekend warrior on biodiesel)
1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
(@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

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pastelgrey300D
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by pastelgrey300D » Wed 22 May, 2019 11:40 am

I have been toying with the idea of a 'retro' EV for years now.

My daily commute to the city is less than 8km and it's all flat terrain, 50km/h speed limits or less, usually in fairly heavy stop-start traffic, so an EV would be ideal. It would also be perfect for the short trips on weekends etc to local shops that are only a few kms - the sort of trips that would be bad for an ICE car anyway because they're not long enough for the engine to fully warm up.

Because of the short distances, I wouldn’t need to worry too much about range, so I wouldn’t have to spend massive $$ on lithium batteries, 3 phase motors and whiz bang controllers, you could build a reasonably affordable EV using a series DC motor and basic Lead Acid or AGM deep cycle batteries (which people have been doing since the 70s).

Being a mini enthusiast, I was thinking of a classic mini ev conversion due to the obvious weight advantage but it’s a bit tricky to try and adapt an electric motor to the transverse drivetrain of a mini, plus classic mini prices are through the roof.

I think the best candidate for a classic EV conversion right now is a VW beetle – the main reason being that the beetle engine is not mounted directly to the body – the gearbox and bellhousing are mounted to the frame and the engine is bolted to the bellhousing. So all you need to do is have an adaptor plate made to bolt the motor to the existing bellhousing. Beetles have no power brakes or power steering so no need for auxiliary vacuum/servo pumps. You could easily fit enough batteries behind the rear seat to give you a decent range. If you do a google search for ‘EV beetle’ there are loads of them out there. Plus, you can still pick up a 70’s beetle or super bug for very little $$, I see loads of them for sale on gumtree and facebook marketplace, often without motors anyway.

BUT… being a Benz lover I’d prefer to make a MB EV… I can just picture it now… a roundie or a Finnie are actually fairly lightweight, you’d save a fair amount of weight after taking out the iron block motor, imagine an electric classic benz painted in ‘mother of pearl’ or another shade of green…
Image
Image
Image

Also, no shortage of suitable motors on gumtree:
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wingfie ... 1213552264
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wingfie ... 1213845008

If anyone comes across a cheap roundie or Finnie sans motor, maybe send me a PM… :think:
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
+ other classics

tsharkey
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Re: Classic EV?

Post by tsharkey » Sun 16 Jun, 2019 11:47 am

The old benzes are too heavy IMHO, although the W123 book does show an EV Wagon, the rear is all batteries ....

I nearly bought a 74 Citroen DS23 advertised on AussieFrogs a few days ago specifically for an EV conversion. It was in Sydney and wasn't prepared to buy it sight unseen (someone else snapped it up, cause it was a very good price). If you recall Gattica (the film), they were driving around in an EV DS Cabriolet as the futuristic vehicle. The hydraulic system which supplies brakes, steering and the pneumatic suspension would be driven by a separate motor with a pressure cutoff. The conversion has been done - if you can putup with the screeching narrator, this video makes good watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYpWHMBswUs
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD English 5 Speed Manual
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1982 300D - OM617 NA (Hektor) - Son's
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

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Bartman4800
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Location: Perth WA

Re: Classic EV?

Post by Bartman4800 » Fri 21 Jun, 2019 11:36 am

You are correct, an interesting build and well performed. But that narrator with his continuous WOW!! :puke:

The original hydraulic pump is now electric powered. I always found them very rattly, which is now emphasized because there is no other noise.

Being familiar with hydraulic systems large and small, I always wondered how citroen managed to use such shitty pumps.
Its actually a complex variable piston pump. The system pressure is only 2500 psi, which is pretty average when it comes to hydraulics.

Anyway, I would have made it differently, but who am i...


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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