The Green Beast - or what's left of it

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 2:19 pm

Just looking for some opinions from you guys. On the drivers side I made the inner sill repair piece myself from 2.5mm steel and it was a struggle to bend it on my little bender (a lot of swearing and gnashing of teeth), so for the passenger side I decided to order a pre-made one online. It's located about where your feet are on the inside, the floor pan attaches to it along with the jacking point and the firewall

see the photo. It looked the part in the photos, should save me a heap of time trying to make my own again.

But its made from thin sheet metal, 0.8 or 1mm at the most, quite well made, but lightweight. I was thinking that by the time I put in the jacking point this will be a fairly rigid structure but then got all concerned about the different thicknesses and if that might lead to other failures down the track??

Can anyone offer an opinion on whether to use it or not??? :think: :think: :think:
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1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by CraigB » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 4:06 pm

Technically, doing the South African rally etc then it should be same but my gut feeling is it should be ok....... it was surviving with basically nothing in lots of places wasn't it!
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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 5:06 pm

Ha!, this would be significantly more steel than was holding it together previously!!!

Fair enough, I'll chuck it in and see what happens
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 6:04 pm

I think that is close to the original thickness.

Remember that modern cars are made of 0.6 or less....


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 7:04 pm

The outer portion of the sill is closer to that but the inside portion is super thick 2.5mm or so. Probably way over the top especially compared to the rest of the car and the size of the box sections that are formed. But I will be fitting a small section of 0.8mm steel against 2.5mm steel. Just concerned that it would create some kind of failure point, although I am starting to think that's highly unlikely


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 7:39 pm

You are probably correct, although I could not see that in my humble Sedan.

But I would not worry too much about it.

My outer sills were made of stick-on alu foil and painted over with the schutzgun. I only found out when I tried to stab them with the screwdriver....

I drove it along the great ocean rd from Adelaide to Melbourne and it did not break in 2 :laughing6:

When they designed the first car in the world with a passive safety cell I think they went a bit over the top...


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 06 Feb, 2017 8:50 pm

Actually I have to retract that previous statement, k just went to the shed to check. It's the outer one that's 2.5mm. The inner one is about 1.2mm from the little bits I could measure. So this one at 1.0mm should be fine. Forget I mentioned it, move along, move along, nothing to see here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Mercmad » Sun 12 Feb, 2017 8:19 am

i make my own but my folder can handle up to 4 mm thick sheet. Those ones are perfectly OK to use on coupe as you can see the outer sills are 2.5 mm. even thicker on a cab . !.
Use the body work manual to measure the width at the front so you get the measurement right BEFORE you weld it in and plug weld it,don't be tempted to edge weld it, it wont be strong enough . Measure while you are welding because you will find the welds pull as they cool down. You want the guards etc to fit properly afterwards.I also weld the jack points in before installing that part, it makes it more secure. Get some high zinc paint (doesn't matter what brand ) and paint everything inside the sill area Before you do the outside, it will stop rust coming back later.

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 13 Feb, 2017 10:21 am

Thanks mercmad, when you say measure the width at the front do you mean the width of the sill or the width across the car from sill to sill???
Still working on it, managed to cut out the bad bit of the sill over the weekend, but rusty inside but still solid. The repair piece isn't a bad fit.ImageImage


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 13 Feb, 2017 2:24 pm

Meant to add these photos too, check out the old jacking point. The tubey bit was welded to the outer sill to hold it in place, wouldn't have been any good if I attempted to jack up the car!!
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1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 13 Feb, 2017 2:52 pm

Eddie,

I believe there is actually an extra vertical plate between inner and outer sill, right where the jacking points are.
This is to take up any vertical stresses and will keep the sill assembly in shape.

Can you confirm that Ron?

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by 230ew123 » Tue 28 Feb, 2017 10:56 am

What welder are you using, and in hindsight what would you use?

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Wed 01 Mar, 2017 8:26 am

Hi,

I only have a basic welder,

http://www.cigweld.com.au/product/welds ... g-machine/

It's quite a good machine, my only gripe is tat you only get 4 power graduations and there seems to be a big difference between each one, so there's not really such a thing as tuning in the welder to suit the material, although with thin sheet metal you're always playing a balancing game.

Can weld up to 5mm which is fine for the car. 0.8mm max wire, but I use 0.6mm

Would recommend it, but would have a look for a bit more power control on other models first.

And I use the gas function, not the gasless, seems the better way to me

Eddie
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Wed 15 Mar, 2017 9:37 am

I've got a small update, managed a bit of time in the shed over the long weekend to install the new bit of inner sill I got from eBay, also fabricated up the little piece from under the seat box frame area. With the new jacking point in place this bit is as good as I can get it. Lots of KBS paint involved too, so fingers crossed this bit lasts a while.

I'm moving onto the transmission tunnel area next, this is a bit of a mess with old patch panels getting in the way of things, I'm going to be employing some of my best hack work to recreate the floor in this area.

Actually that's a call for help, can anyone with a Finnis please photograph the floor in the area ( underneath the passenger seat, against the transmission tunnel) as mine no longer exisits and I need a few reference points.

ImageImageImageImageImageImage


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by 220SEB » Wed 15 Mar, 2017 2:45 pm

If you were doing that at my place there would be a Possum living in that sill by dawn, great work and a pleasure to see.

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Bartman4800
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Wed 15 Mar, 2017 3:59 pm

Eddie,

I can take some pictures of my Sedan's floor if that is helpful? Send me a PM if required.

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by T-Modell » Wed 15 Mar, 2017 6:03 pm

eddie wrote:...
Actually that's a call for help, can anyone with a Finnis please photograph the floor in the area ( underneath the passenger seat, against the transmission tunnel) as mine no longer exisits and I need a few reference points.
...
Hi,

does that help?
IMG_0681.jpg
2014-11-11 - 4253 - W111 Ruecksitzbank - Fussraum hinter Fahrer_1024x681.JPG
The "green" one is from a friend of mine after replacing the floors.
Regards
Thomas
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---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Wed 15 Mar, 2017 7:16 pm

Hey Thomas, thanks for the photos, but I think your cabriolet floors are slightly different to coupe ones, u have extra reinforcing in there notably that flat 'bulge' but right next to the transmission tunnel.


Hey Bart, the sedan could be similar to coupe but not 100% sure, will send u a PM from work in the morning
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:12 pm

So, I've been offline for a little while and haven't done much to the car.

Last few months I have been progressing the passenger side floor, but have also been trying to buy a boot floor as they are still available from Mercedes. Trouble is they are bigger than standard DHL parcel sizes and shipping was not really possible (albeit anything's possible with enough time, money and effort). CraigB offered and old floor from a w108, which are the same but I was keen to get hold of a new one if possible. After a couple of failed attempts to have one shipped, I had to go with the next best thing.....

Fly to Germany, meet up with Thomas, go for a drive in his w111 cabriolet, look around his part of the world, pick up a boot floor from Mercedes, visit the Mercedes factory, carry said boot floor from Stuttgart to Paris and then bring it home as luggage. Not too shabby!!!!

This is not strictly true, but makes for a much better story!!!! :laughing6: :laughing6: :laughing6:
Germany 3.jpg
Germany 4.jpg
Aldelaide 2.jpg
Adelaide 1.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Bartman4800
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:59 pm

Carry on luggage? :laughing6:
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by T-Modell » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:17 pm

Bartman4800 wrote:Carry on luggage? :laughing6:
No Bart,
he had to set priorities ... his wife is still with us :laughing6:
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by John Green » Mon 22 May, 2017 6:21 pm

T-Modell wrote:
Bartman4800 wrote:Carry on luggage? :laughing6:
No Bart,
he had to set priorities ... his wife is still with us :laughing6:
Thomas
Two points to Thomas...
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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 22 May, 2017 6:24 pm

It's a win win for me
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by sebada » Wed 11 Oct, 2017 12:38 am

Hi Eddie,

have you made more progress on the car?.

Do you remember that I told you that I have a coupe too in similar condition?. Well, my right rear sill and frame are gone, so I will have to tackle that job. Maybe I ask you for some advice since you have already done it and I am also a newbie in body work.

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by drew56cus » Wed 11 Oct, 2017 10:14 pm

Geez, can't believe I have missed a whole lot of posts from back in May! What an ignorant bugger I am... Do you still need pics of the floor/tunnel for a coupe?
Another year has almost flown by - at least you made some progress!
Drew
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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 2:10 pm

Hey sebada, and the ozbenz crew generally.

Sorry it’s taken so long to reply. There has been only a little update of late. It’s winter etc and work has been busy, so time in the shed has been limited.

I’m trying to get the rear passenger jack lifting point and nearby chassis legs sorted before putting the passenger floor back in. I have a bit of an issue in that the rear chassis leg and inner wheel arch are no longer in existence and I don’t have a pattern to work with to remake the shape, I need to guess or measure off a w111 or w108 which I think is the same. I might have to get in touch with Craig b or Dave and see if I can trace the shape of that area, see the photos below, tricky area This with many curves and boxes all going on in the same small area, would love to buy remanufactured sheet metal rather than make up or hack off a decent existing body, but that might be difficult to come by. Let me know if you want any specific tips for this area if the car. U can still buy the jacking points, and the sills etc are available but postage out of Germany is tricky.

I can also see in the photos that I haven’t been as careful/patient on this side of the car as I was on the other. I struggled to get everything to fit nicely and in the end the jack point was a bit of a botch. Strong enough, but not much to look at.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 2:18 pm

Couple of additional shots
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1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 16 Oct, 2017 2:51 pm

Hey Ozbenzers

After writing that reply yesterday I went to the shed and just guessed the shape, I figure it can't be that far off - famous last words!!!

so I still have to replicate the inner and outer wheel houses, but they are a bit more straight forward. watch this space, hopefully a few more updates soon.
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1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by sebada » Wed 18 Oct, 2017 6:47 am

Hi Eddie.

I know that story of not having time to spent on the car....

Anyway, as someone said on a previous post, you are moving on the right direction, that is always good.
I will ask you some tips for sure when I was to attack that rust problem, as I said, mine is as bad as yours hahaha.

My main concern is which part of the sills, leg, floor, fender, etc. should I attack first and in waht order to make things right and also to be able to weld it. I also don't know where should I do spot weld and where I should do a butweld.

Regards.

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by AMG » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 8:55 pm

Eddie,
Never lose sight of the end goal :occasion5:

You're making good progress. Keep up the good work.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 2:51 pm

Hey Ozbenz

Haven't updated body work for a while, instead I have a newly refreshed rear axle to show off.

This has been completed refurbished with new seals, rubbers, bearings, brakes and hand brake items. Just like one bought from a shop. The paintwork was by me, so ok to look at from this distance. I'm fairly pleased with this, given the state it was in when started. I will do the same for the front axle, but it will have to wait now as once I finish the rust repairs on the rear left hand corner I can slot this back in and the car can be mobile again to go off to a body shop. (after I put the passenger side floor back in too!)

eddie
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1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by 230ew123 » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 4:04 pm

What are you going to use to dress (neaten up) your weld joints?

I am in the process of doing a couple of doors where I used the klokkerholm rust repair panels, they are a tad thinner than the original steel but the correct shape and fairly easy to cut out and line up. I have found after tacking in and then fully welding together I cannot grind too much or I would make the new panels to thin. One door I have used epoxy resin and fibre glass matting as I have used it extensively for other non auto repairs and have never seen it fail even after years in the weather (top coated of course). The other I am planning to use the standard polyster filler bog.

My big preference of epoxy is that it does not stink like fibre glass resin (although the epoxy amines are actually meant to be worse for your health) it has more flex and does not go brittle like fibre glass resin does (although the polyester fibres in the fibre glass bog would help a little). I always question all manufactures choice of materials supplied to the consumer. As far as I can tell epoxy is a superior resin to fibreglass resin but epoxy is simply more expensive. A basic bog recipe would be 'q cells, polyester fibres and just enough resin to hold it together, q cells being light weight and easy to sand. Of course I also realise that much research goes into the manufacturing of the products, they would need to perform well for at least awhile..but I know if I made bog, fibre glass resin would be much cheaper to manufacture en masse..
A canoe made from epoxy would outlast a fibreglass one.
(just some thoughts..)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 4:51 pm

My idea is (not that you are asking for it :laughing6: ) that if you ever use fibreglass on a vintage car of some value, you will depreciate it enormously.

The car was made of steel when it rolled out of the factory, not bog or fibreglass (with whatever resin).

The finnies are made of quite thick steel (at least 1mm)
If you position your panels properly, weld them with the multiple tack method to introduce very little heat, and use a flappy disc to grind the welds flush you hardly have to put bog on it to smoothen out.

If you just want to repair your daily driver, then that's a whole different matter.

Just my 1.5 cents.

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by 230ew123 » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 5:22 pm

always fully open to your opinions Bart mate!

I agree, the less bog the better for sure. The fact that bog holds water unless sealed is a major put off just for starters.

But, probably due to my lack of experience with welding and not wishing to over grind the panels. The difference in welds from a professional welder to an amateur's welding is considerable. My second door is much better. The thickness of the panels makes a huge difference too. The original w123 steel seems to be about 1mm but the rust panels are about .8mm or a bit less (would hate to work on a newer car). How much grinding involved has been my biggest lesson, a good angle grinder has made my life more pleasant with less vibrations, then you want a die grinder... However, even if your welds are pretty good, there would be some pinholes in there.

As far as I can see, some sort of bog is necessary to fill in slight imperfections in the welds after grinding as best as possible. High build filler, primer filler (but perfect for setting up a nice finish), blade putty are also types of bog. I figure that epoxy primer, which seems to have the best reputation, is made from epoxy resin. Sorry about the rant about epoxy, I habitually question manufacturers motives.
I expect both types of repairs to last some time, hopefully in 10-20 years, maybe even longer, I can report which process was superior.

Whilst we are here, as far as I can see, the only paint recommended for internals is the eastwood internal frame coating. Dom and por chassis paints are not recommended for internals. I know the wax is highly recommended, but kind of feel a bit more reassured with some paint then wax..

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by sebada » Wed 06 Dec, 2017 12:19 am

eddie wrote:
Tue 05 Dec, 2017 2:51 pm
Hey Ozbenz

Haven't updated body work for a while, instead I have a newly refreshed rear axle to show off.

This has been completed refurbished with new seals, rubbers, bearings, brakes and hand brake items. Just like one bought from a shop. The paintwork was by me, so ok to look at from this distance. I'm fairly pleased with this, given the state it was in when started. I will do the same for the front axle, but it will have to wait now as once I finish the rust repairs on the rear left hand corner I can slot this back in and the car can be mobile again to go off to a body shop. (after I put the passenger side floor back in too!)

eddie
Niiiiice. Good work !!!.

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Thu 18 Jan, 2018 4:16 pm

Hi Ozenzers

I actually have updates. managed to get the welder back out and do some work on the passenger B-post as well as the passenger rear sill/wheel arch area. Finally I can move on to the passenger side floor!!

I had some help from Drewcus who made up a pattern for me to recreate the rear wheel house area, so thanks Drew, it all work out ok.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Thu 18 Jan, 2018 4:21 pm

Good work! Nice to see your progress.


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by sebada » Sat 27 Jan, 2018 5:33 am

Good work Eddie.

How bad is your tail light panel?. Mine is pretty bad, I think I should replaced the whole panel but I don't know if it is still available somewhere. Otherwise, a lot of cutting and welding will be needed to fix it.

Regards,

Sebastian

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Sun 28 Jan, 2018 8:38 pm

Hey Sebastian,

My tail panel has been repaired in the past - looks like accident damage. It’s not in great condition. I have seen them for sale at about 1800 euros, plus shipping, I can find the website if you’re interested. Shipping out of Germany for such a large piece is also difficult.


I have managed to get the passenger side floor in, just working on repairing the cross support boxes at the moment. Hoping to have them completed next weekend
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by drew56cus » Sun 28 Jan, 2018 9:18 pm

Good one! You are getting there, keep plodding along!
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
'66 250SE/C (#3 project)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Tue 13 Feb, 2018 8:40 am

Hey Guys

Managed a second weekend in a row working on the coupe. Managed to button up the floor completely, finishing all the little details that seem to take forever compared to putting the large floor pan in. All the big box sections that run across the car are finished and the really fiddly details where the floor fits to the firewall are all done. It looks a bit crap in the photos but that's mostly due to the 10 different paint colours in this area, in the flesh it looks like new bits of metal.

Also fixed up the section under the back seat that had a fair amount of rust in it. Can someone please confirm the location of the seat belt mount in the photo of the floor area (yellow circle). The top mount and the mount where the seat belt lock fits are also factory installed captive nuts, but this yellow circle area is just a hole drilled into the floor with a dirty great big washer on the underside. It's not factory which suggests to me that the factory mount has been lost in all of these rust repairs. In this location the seat belt is well under your bottom rather than beside your hip (if that makes sense) so you tend to sit in the centre of the seat which doesn't seem right to me.

It feels like the location for this mount should be in the wheel arch area???
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Wed 21 Feb, 2018 9:25 pm

Hey guys,

I've decided to take a little break from welding for a little while and start stripping down the bodywork to see what evils lie beneath.

Decided to start with the drivers side and work my way along each side before tackling the roof and engine bay etc

There's all sorts of previous repairs buried under loads of bog and filler products. What I'm finding is that the paint just peels straight off, no need for paint stripper generally. It seems like the old contact you used to put on your school books. Underthat is a layer of yellow 'filler' not sure what it is but its realitvely thick and paint stripper wont touch it. Then a layer of what looks like a grey primer and then bog as appropriate, and generally the bog is hiding welded in patches or shoved straight into dents or rust - no great surprises there. The rear wheel arch has seen some special attention as well as the rear of the boot lid and the front wing. I might weld up some patches in the easier panels but the rest (front wing in particular) might need some specialist attention with better skills than me.

I've started to use a heat gun rather than paint stripper as the stripper will only go through a layer at a time and it struggles to do anything with that yellow filler other than create a yellow gooey mess that's hard to get off anyway. Heat gun works really well, but is very slow by comparison.

Few photos of progress, figure I'll have it stripped in a few weeks with some after work perseverance
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

230ew123
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by 230ew123 » Wed 21 Feb, 2018 9:45 pm

Ouch! Grind and cut is the only way I know of unfortunately..probably the most unpleasant part of the journey. If there is any chance of getting panels of steel, even cutting from a donor (check with a magnet), I would choose that rather than the grind. Cutting out the bog and replacing with steel ends up being quicker and more satisfying. Old bog is just evil to work with, dusty, dirty, stinky, can't burn it off, weld near it, would take some full on acid to dissolve it, absorbs water like a sponge.. . The yellow stuff is more than likely high build primer filler from my little experience. Pink is plain old bog, sometimes blade putty.

Fight on brother, no going back now, she is going to be a keeper.

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Mercmad » Thu 22 Feb, 2018 9:15 am

A donor coupe? good luck finding one in OZ today.

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by Bartman4800 » Thu 22 Feb, 2018 11:09 am

Hi Eddie,

I know it can be disheartening to find all kinds of evil under the bog.
But at least you are working on a car that is valuable enough to do all this.

One option (although dusty) to remove bog and rust from smaller areas, is the use of 3M stripping wheels

https://www.bunnings.com.au/scotchbrite ... m_p6314198

They come either as a brush for a corded drill (you need the speed) or an angle grinder.

They eat paint, bog and rust very fast but do not touch the steel. I bought a set of 10 (125 angle grinder discs) from Fleabay for about 60 bucks


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by T-Modell » Thu 22 Feb, 2018 5:46 pm

Hi Eddie,

hats off again for your efforts ... I might have give up! Good to see, that the floors are in. There's always an alternative to have the paint job incl. preparations somewhere else ...

All the best
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by AMG » Fri 23 Feb, 2018 10:13 am

Eddie,
Have a chat with CraigB about paint & panel. He might have some recommendations for people locally, but he's also pretty cluey when it comes to this stuff.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by CraigB » Fri 23 Feb, 2018 10:56 am

We have chatted at various stages and various options. Given all the good work I'm pleased to see you stripping it right back, as mentioned here i do think it is worth it and your value add from the work you are doing and then steering some to professional will get a top job with great savings over what it might cost. I do have a contact i have discussed with Eddie. I think as much as you can do though as discussed and then Rom will be good for pulling it all together and getting it nice and straight. The rear guard lip on my 560 was pushed in from a scrape - he had this wiggly bit of wire he spot welded to it and with slide hammer pulled a bit here and there just by eye - was spot on - no filler required - he has that sort of eye for things. Getting a time slot to book is the hard part.
Craig Baulderstone
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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Fri 23 Feb, 2018 7:17 pm

Hey Craig, u should come up for a look some time. And I’ve a new toy to show off!! One that starts and drives!!
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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eddie
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Re: The Green Beast - or what's left of it

Post by eddie » Mon 26 Feb, 2018 11:19 am

Thanks for all the encouragement guys, I'll get there one day!!

Bart, I've got some of those discs for the angle grinder and they're really good - expensive though, but work well. I've been trying to avoid creating so much dust. There are multiple layers of bog and filler and I'm working in a garage connected to the house rather than a detached shed, so I'm trying to avoid dust as much as possible. It creates more elbow work, but I'm happy to use stripper and heat gun until I can see the metal and then go at it with the stripper disc thing.

I did the rear panel over the weekend, complex shape!! I had to use every stripping tool at my disposal to get it to this state. As expected this panel has seen a lot of treatment, there relatively minor rust, but there's been accident damage that has been roughly pulled back into shaped and then body filler applied liberally. I didn't get a photo but the entire panel had some form of filler applied and no less than 4 different paint coats and associated primers in the lower parts. This was by far the most laborious to date.

Will keep going down the passenger side now. I'm not coming across any major accident damage(some in the rear panel and some in the drivers door to date) which is a good thing - hope I haven't spoken too soon. Plenty of rust repair (some good, some rubbish) but that's to be expected.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank - SOLD, what a great car we'd had it 12 years and was still going strong
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - SOLD it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb - project car, going to take forever!
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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