The swoopy coupe!

1961-1968: a.k.a "Finnie" or "Heckflosse" models
190, 190D, 200, 200D, 220b, 220Sb, 220SEb, 230, 230S, 250SE coupe, 280SE coupe, 280SE 3.5 coupe, 220SEb cabrio., 250SE conv., 280SE cabrio., 280SE 3.5 Cabrio., 300SE, 300SE coupe, 300SE conv., 300SEL
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Bartman4800
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Bartman4800 » Fri 02 Jan, 2015 3:05 pm

drew56cus wrote: I still have to find my new plug leads and fit them. I won't be installing the engine for perhaps a month or two as I need to test-fit the A/C in the car so I can finalise what holes are needed in the firewall, then fit the firewall pad and wiring.
Drew, It's great looking at the progress you made! No wonder they made this thread sticky :)

I am looking for a firewall pad for my Finnie Sedan (which I would say is very similar to the Coupe). Where did you get yours?

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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drew56cus
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Mon 05 Jan, 2015 7:01 am

Thanks for that Craig. I don't know what numbers are on the cams - I will have to see if Ron of JG knows (JG built the engine the first time for the PO) or check some time. Funny what you say about the exhaust - I had a guy walk past my house when I was washing Cherry Bomb one day, and he came down the driveway smiling. He said he wanted to know what engine I had as he used to hear my going up and down the hills and he loved the sound! That car had a 113 front half going to a single hot dog muffler at the back.
Bart, I have 2 pads - one I got from MB Spares, which has something like a horsehair backing. Another I got off ebay from an individual but it does not say where it originated from. I know the pagoda people got some sort of diamond material reproduced into pads recently but can't remember who was selling them. I will see if I can take some pics tonight.
Cheers, Drew
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
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'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
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Bartman4800
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 05 Jan, 2015 10:56 am

They got it here maybe?

http://www.vintageeuroparts.com/100409.html

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Mercmad
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Mercmad » Mon 06 Apr, 2015 10:39 am

You get the pad material in OZ from Dalys .There's a branch in every state. I don't have name off hand ,but i buy it in 1m lengths which is plenty for a finny firewall. It's a one stop shop fopr upholstery stuff ,so write up a list of goodies you may need such as glue (3M aerosol stuff) ,sound proofing etc .
http://www.daleys.com.au/

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drew56cus
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Mon 04 May, 2015 9:55 pm

I finally got around to finishing my install of a Mark IV under-dash A/C unit from a 108. I had to make some brackets to suspend the unit from, that allowed for adjustment in all directions. I also cut off the original bracket that the handbrake mounted to and extended it down so that it now comes out under the A/C unit.
20150502_105115.jpg
Now I can get on with figuring out what holes in the firewall are required and what can be covered over with sound insulation, and then cut and install the firewall pad.

I also laid out all the chrome to see its condition and what pieces I need for my other coupe. But silly me did not take a pic of the whole lot at once. Here is a little bit. There is quite a lot! I feel a big bill coming my way soon...
20150502_105115.jpg
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Drew
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Sat 23 May, 2015 9:42 pm

I started preparing to put all my insulation in. So the heater had to come out. So, who has much experience with these? I found it really hard to pull the heater out, so I cannot imagine how hard it is going to be to put it back in. The picture below shows how there does not seem to be enough clearance with the factory insulation in place.
coupe heater wedged.jpg
So was I doing something wrong or is it always a struggle? I am thinking I will have to leave some insulation off to get it back in.

Now whilst on the subject of the heater, has anyone priced up the seals between the heater and the ducts off each side? Yours for a low $320 EACH!!! That is ridiculous. So it looks like I will be going to clark rubber to find an alternative. Has anyone else come up with something?
Cheers, Drew
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Drew
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eddie
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by eddie » Sun 24 May, 2015 8:42 am

From my experience with the heater you are doing everything correct. The heater is the wrong size for the car. you have to pull it like youre about to break it to get it out and the same on the way back in. Nothing about it seems right.

I couldnt find those seals either and ended up making some from clarke rubber off cuts

Good luck its painful!!
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - sold it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Sun 27 Sep, 2015 8:06 am

A problem that all my coupes have is cracking in the front kick panel area. The door check straps are bolted to a bracket spot welded in the kick panel, but there is obviously insufficient bracing to take 50 years of a big long door flexing it, even if they are cast ally frames. So I set out to rectify the damage and prevent it from happening again. Follow the progress...
20150926_173649.jpg
The piece was cut out.
20150830_143428.jpg
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Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Mercmad » Sun 27 Sep, 2015 8:11 am

WHAT!!! you are actually away from the mine work and doing something meaningful????????

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drew56cus
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Sun 27 Sep, 2015 8:23 am

The second time around, I remembered something to do - before cutting out the piece, and whilst it was still held in place, I drilled out the ends of all the cracks so that they would have less tendency to re-start. Though my solution should not really need it...
I sandblasted the piece to remove rust and widened the cracks where they would not allow the original shape to be easily attained - all that flexing had distorted the metal.
I then welded up the cracks. I did one side with the mig, and lots of grinding. Then I used my Henrob oxy torch on the other side. I really prefer oxy welding as long as you can get access to the back side to control the distortion. Mig is best for replicating the spot welds by plug welding too - oxy is not so good for that as you need a lot of heat to do twice the thickness, so it has a tendency to melt places where only 1 thickness of steel is present. I do have a TIG now but cannot justify having 4 bottles of gas on hire when I am not spending much time in the shed these days...

Once the cracks were welded up, I made an extension to the bracket that the check strap bolts to. I forgot to take a pic with it out of the car, but here is the whole lot tacked in place.
20150926_120011.jpg
20150926_120117.jpg
20150926_150315.jpg
Again, I did some of the welding with mig and some with oxy. Distortion is not a big deal in this area as it is all covered by leather down the track.
20150926_172009.jpg
So there it is - the door should now function for 50 years without cracking, and once the bolt head is painted, I doubt anyone without a keen eye would notice.
Cheers,
Drew
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Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Mercmad » Sun 27 Sep, 2015 10:43 am

Nice one!. The Gas is a better way to weld as long as you remeber one basic rule,look at the weld puddle and note which way the slag is moving. If you are burning through, poke more filler wire into the puddle to keep it's temperature under control. This prevents the constant popping you can have the Henrob too.

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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by CraigB » Sun 27 Sep, 2015 2:01 pm

Well done Drew - the main advantage I reckon of the oxy is the weld is the same metal/hardness as the surrounding steel, so if in a panel you can easily smooth back the weld and even hammer and dolly it. MIG is much harder. When i bought my amilcar the body section had this panels that had been beautifully rolled to perfection but the guy i bought it from had miged them together with buckles all along each side of the weld. Took me forever to dent knock and heat shrink each side of this hard bead of mig. If it had been oxy i could have ground it back and worked it all as one piece. Looks good now but if ever i get bored would be nicer to have a nice light alloy body and this body would make the perfect buck to bend it over...... but can't see that ever getting to a level of importance that it would happen. But I do use the MIG a lot just because it is quick and easy and cheap to have hanging around. If your not too worried about how pretty it is or grind and a bit of fill then it certainly does the job but you are spoiled for choice and a good situation to be in.
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drew56cus
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Sun 27 Sep, 2015 8:40 pm

Here is the drivers side bit with the "L" shown.
20150927_114051.jpg
It was quite an enjoyable weekend making some progress - though lying in footwells with angle grinders, welders and wearing a heavy welding helmet does not do much for the neck!
Craig, this can be an interesting experiment in weld brittleness - the drivers side had the cracks repaired with oxy, whilst the passenger side was done with mig. Now I just need to make a counter to register the number of door openings per side to be able to compare the duty...
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Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by eddie » Mon 28 Sep, 2015 9:30 am

Tidy work Drew

could you send down a couple of your newly patented door strap fixing brackets, mine are knackered too and the drivers side has some serious butchery done to it in the past. should have got you to weld some in on your visit

I would post some images of my first welding patches, but I'm too embarrassed after looking at yours. big learning curve coming right up.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn, but like a tank
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - sold it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 W111 coupe 220seb
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot - SOLD, cant help but think I'm going to regret selling that one :think:
2003 Porsche 911 - had to see what all the fuss was about

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drew56cus
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 8:24 am

I got the firewall pad in. Each of my coupes had a slightly different area covered so I did what I wanted and covered more area near the fuse box and under the drains. It will be a shame to drape ugly wiring across it now.
20151003_104004.jpg
I also modified the trans tunnel to accept the floor shift manual I am converting to.
20151002_160614.jpg
20151003_102854.jpg
I started installing Resomat insulation/sound deadening so that I can then start on installing the wiring harness - though it will need a few mods (manual trans, power windows).
Cheers, Drew
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Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Mercmad » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 8:55 am

There's only one loom running across the firewall ,so it's not too bad :-)

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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by CraigB » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:29 pm

Firewall looks good - did you use a heat gun to get it to bend in some areas more than others etc? And just contact adhesive? That looks the same material as what i have here and a task for Eddie a some stage.
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drew56cus
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Mon 05 Oct, 2015 10:11 pm

Hi Craig, I didn't have to use a heat gun as it was easy enough to bend. I used clamps to make the contact adhesive stick. I also used a roller to get it in all the corners. It is not perfect though, but pretty good.
20151002_151740.jpg
The template I made is already in the mail to Justin! I scribbled on some notes for offsets from my template where it did not line up perfectly. So that should give Justin a head start.
Cheers, Drew
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by simonsend » Thu 31 Dec, 2015 2:17 pm

Great looking result! Let me know if you need a hand
Dean

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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Sun 27 Mar, 2016 10:16 am

A little update. I still haven't finished all the engine bay as I have been painting various bits and pieces.
I took the opportunity of a bung sandblaster at home to meet 'ben108' who runs VapourBlast but also does some sandblasting. After going through the bits we had a look at his nice 108 amongst other old cars - thanks Ben!
The parts came back beautiful - especially the vapour lasted allow bit (which I did not take a pic of!). So Friday was painting the bits and setting them aside to bolt onto the car.
20160325_115247.jpg
20160325_173356.jpg
My next challenge is to make some new dash fascia. I have the dash timber from the 250, but someone had cut out a bigger radio hole, it has a slot for the auto trans indicator, and it is delaminating in places. Combine this with the fact that Mercmad has no dash timber for his coupe and I actually don't like timber, I am going to make a fibreglass fascia. Mercmad and I know an old surfboard maker with a 3.5 coupe and he lent us a mould he had made of his dash timber. So after a morning of you-tube viewing and getting some ingredients, I have done a bit of tidying up of the mould (blank off the square ignition switch area and fill in some dodgy parts) and am now ready to get all karate kid - 'wax on, wax off'!
20160326_172527.jpg
20160326_172842.jpg
I will see how it turns out. I am either going to paint it body colour or wrap it so it looks like brushed stainless steel. I still have to pick the interior leather colour - either black or a dark grey. But then harry's sedan in a similar paint colour looks awesome with the cream trim. But I am a grubby person and think I would stain them too easily. Thoughts? I am leaning towards a black interior with grey body coloured painted dash.
Cheers, Drew
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by harryskater_220 » Sun 27 Mar, 2016 6:01 pm

Are you going leather or vinyl Drew? The cream looks cool in mine from a distance but man it gets dirty quick and i havnt found anything that will clean it without damaging the vinyl ( thinners is no good) wonder wipes kinda work but with the leather texturing in the vinyl i almost need something a bit rougher to work into the grooves.
Ive also noticed it gives me a really sweaty back driving anywhere in it, its like the vinyl cant breath, i reckon light grey would look cool. And maybe some perforations to avoid that perspiration problem.
The wrap worked out well drew, it gets tricky around the glove box as theres not really anywhere to hide the joins but that 3M stuff is really forgiving and stretches like crazy.
Loving the pics! look forward to more!!

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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Mercmad » Mon 28 Mar, 2016 8:04 am

now you know why kiwis invented the sheepskin seat covers... :dance:

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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Mercmad » Mon 28 Mar, 2016 8:12 am

Check the dates on this thread......ha ha ha .. :computer: if it takes any longer you will be funding it out of your pension and working in the drive of the retirement village.

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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Mon 28 Mar, 2016 11:30 am

Do I need to start pointing you in the direction of a certain black ponton or a LHD coupe stashed in the dark corners of a shed Ron??!!! :naughty:
Yeah, it is pretty sad though isn't it. I haven't been very much fun since the dog died - it would appear that he was the only thing that stopped me working like a crazy man. Oh well, I am almost there though, when I get the new shed set up then the days of working like a dog will come to an end. It will be like an awakening. :smilebox:
Until then - WOOF!
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
'66 250SE/C (#3 project)

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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Mon 28 Mar, 2016 8:40 pm

Well I have laid out the fibreglass today, but have to wait for it to set before I see if it was successful or not. Man working with fibreglass is messy. I knocked over 2 cups of acetone as well so there is crap everywhere. The process was:
- Sprayed on the PVA using my little touch up gun. I did this as well as the wax as the mould had a pretty rough finish
- I tried spraying on the gel coat with a spare body deadener gun I had but it did not work, so I used a foam brush. It was hard to get an even film thickness as it was quite sticky.
- I then made up some normal resin and applied a layer of thinner (perhaps 4 oz) chopstrand mat, poking it into all of the corners. I was worried that I had not used enough catalyst as I only went for about 1.5% but after an hour it did go off.
- I added a second layer of heavier 6 oz chopstrand mat
20160328_154952.jpg
So fingers crossed I can get the bastard apart in a day or two. The mould had holes cut in it for the dash features, though I don't know why as it just made it hard to get a nice flat finish, and resin also ran through the holes and under the other side. Combining that with the little lip on the outside where the mould is a bit larger than the original timber it was made from makes me worry that it is going to be hard to separate the part and the mould. Time will tell. So yeah, if I made a mould I would not cut holes out and would try to make say 2 reference points that match up to a paper template that let you mark up holes on the finished piece.
I got another tip from an cluey fellow who lurks on here that there is a resin that is cured by UV light instead of that MEKP stuff - it is called 'Sun cure'. So you work in the shed and take your time, then just take it outside in the sun when you are ready to set it. Sounds a lot less troublesome than trying to get the right catalyst amount and hen waiting and waiting, or having it go off too early. Thanks for the tip!
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'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 29 Mar, 2016 12:12 am

You probably already know this Drew, but please wear a good face mask. One with active carbon in it.
If you inhale the fibres they will stay in your lungs forever as they do not decay, and the fumes will pass straight into your bloodstream.

Then lastly, acetone goes straight through your skin into your bloodstream as well, doing damage to your brain and kidneys.

My dad is a retired shipwright and built several yachts of which only one with a fibreglass hull (his last, a 34 footer). He hated the stuff profoundly.
It is extremely versatile and very strong, but a menace to work with. He hand laid up a complete hull, 16mm thick.

Modern yacht builders use a spray gun that cuts the fibres and sprays on the resin, quite a bit easier but not as strong.

Am interested what the result will be!

By the way, if you have a mould, you could also laminate a new dashboard out of layers of veneer, using water resistant glue in between. Once the glue is hard, it will stay in shape. A lot nicer process. My dad made helm sticks like that, bent in a beautiful S-shape...

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Fri 01 Apr, 2016 7:47 am

I snuck out to the shed last night armed with a paint scraper and had a crack at popping the fascia away from the mould. Easy! The wax and PVA and fairly flat shape meant they came out with no problems.
The gel coat has some imperfections in the face, so spraying it on would have been much better, but it is fine for my purposes. But it is only about 1.5mm thick compared to the timber being about 3m thick, so now I have to check the switches etc and see if that will be an issue or not. I suppose primer and paint may add another 0.7mm or so? I will have a go at trimming it over the weekend and see how it fits.
20160331_204442.jpg
20160331_204423.jpg
I did notice that the 3.5 obviously has slightly different hole locations and extras compared to the earlier cars - lucky it is fibreglass so it is easy to rectify!
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by merc-304 » Mon 11 Jul, 2016 3:36 pm

drew56cus wrote:Well I have laid out the fibreglass today, but have to wait for it to set before I see if it was successful or not. Man working with fibreglass is messy. I knocked over 2 cups of acetone as well so there is crap everywhere. The process was:
- Sprayed on the PVA using my little touch up gun. I did this as well as the wax as the mould had a pretty rough finish
- I tried spraying on the gel coat with a spare body deadener gun I had but it did not work, so I used a foam brush. It was hard to get an even film thickness as it was quite sticky.
- I then made up some normal resin and applied a layer of thinner (perhaps 4 oz) chopstrand mat, poking it into all of the corners. I was worried that I had not used enough catalyst as I only went for about 1.5% but after an hour it did go off.
- I added a second layer of heavier 6 oz chopstrand mat
20160328_154952.jpg
So fingers crossed I can get the bastard apart in a day or two. The mould had holes cut in it for the dash features, though I don't know why as it just made it hard to get a nice flat finish, and resin also ran through the holes and under the other side. Combining that with the little lip on the outside where the mould is a bit larger than the original timber it was made from makes me worry that it is going to be hard to separate the part and the mould. Time will tell. So yeah, if I made a mould I would not cut holes out and would try to make say 2 reference points that match up to a paper template that let you mark up holes on the finished piece.
I got another tip from an cluey fellow who lurks on here that there is a resin that is cured by UV light instead of that MEKP stuff - it is called 'Sun cure'. So you work in the shed and take your time, then just take it outside in the sun when you are ready to set it. Sounds a lot less troublesome than trying to get the right catalyst amount and hen waiting and waiting, or having it go off too early. Thanks for the tip!
Cluey Fellow..thanks Drew
The suncure or sunbake additive U.V. hardner is mixed at 1% and is great stuff to work with and gives off very little odour compared to that evil MEK,just a tip if you are adding a colour pigment to the resin they recommend you still add 1% MEK with your suncure additive ...seems the UV rays find it hard to penetrate into dark [er] colours ..although this can be overcome by using a mirror reflection from full sun for a few minutes on your work ...so toss the MEK. Any pics of the finished bits fitted Drew ?
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drew56cus
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by drew56cus » Fri 22 Jul, 2016 7:15 am

I am getting closer to finishing it - time in the shed has been sparse of late due to work + starting a new house and shed build (jumping through hoops with the council). Hopefully I get some time off in August...
I did trim a couple of switch holes too big though so hopefully I don't have to start from scratch again.
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
'66 250SE/C (#3 project)

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Mercmad
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Re: The swoopy coupe!

Post by Mercmad » Sat 23 Jul, 2016 11:39 pm

I'll have to do that too, unless you feel like doing a set for me too. :laughing6:

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