Advice on looking for an 16v?

190E 2.3-16, 190E 2.5-16, 190E Evolution 1 & 2 models
16v specific information.
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althon65fx
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Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by althon65fx » Fri 22 Jun, 2012 1:55 pm

Hi all,
I'm in the market for a 190E 2.3/2.5-16. Saw a couple on the web and might go and pay a visit soon. Since they are all imported I wonder what special areas do I need to look out for? Cheers

One I saw on the web , a re-bodied one but don't know if the internals are as good as outside (Seller claims he didn't do the valve chain and tappets)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MERCEDES-190 ... 500wt_1105

The other one I'm interested is this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI ... 111wt_1090

It should be a Hong Kong import but seems mechanical wise it sounds. Clear indicators in the front, maybe a frontal accident before?

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Greg in Oz
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by Greg in Oz » Fri 22 Jun, 2012 11:24 pm

The simplest advice I can offer is to tread very carefully. The right car will be very rewarding to own. The wrong car will be a money pit nightmare. The genuinely good examples are few and far between. You need to buy the best example you can afford but also need to be sure it really is a genuinely good example.

I'm a fan of the W201 and have owned several, but as yet, not a 16 valve. I'm sure one of our OZBENZ 16V owners (oz coz or JoeB are just a couple who spring to mind) will chime in with some good advice.

Are you looking for a manual or auto? There are autos around that are good examples but haven't sold because many potential buyers of the 16V are looking for a manual.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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althon65fx
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by althon65fx » Fri 22 Jun, 2012 11:37 pm

Hi Greg,
Thanks for your advice, I previously had a 1993 320E but turned out as a lemon so I know how that money pit feeling is :banghead: .
Preferably a manual but don't mind if it is an automatic. I wonder if there is any 2.5 in the market since I think they are more refined than a 2.3. Also the double row chain

Cheers,
Ben

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oz coz
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by oz coz » Sat 23 Jun, 2012 5:57 pm

Greg hit the nail on the head--buy the best that you can afford and still be prepared for some shocks as you go down the road.

The" 2.3-16" for sale in Melbourne has a gigantic stigma in that the body bears the VIN of a SOHC sedan--probably a locally delivered 2 litre 190E. As such it will never be viewed by a genuine 16V seeker or buyer as authentic. It has a few obvious errors---centre instruments wrong way around and something with the rear wing. There may well be other mistakes but I stopped looking and lost interest when I got the details of the VIN. It then became of interest to me only as a parts car. It appears as though the successful bidder is trying for a quick few dollars profit following a quick wash. I have not viewed this car personally but have some great reservations given its history .

The 2.3-16 in Brisbane or was it the Sunshine Coast has been for sale a few times over the past 12 months. If the contents of the advertisement can be authenticated it has had a bit spent on it and could be a reasonable starting point. Again my opinion is based only on what I can see in the EBay advertisement but it is a bit more appealing at first glance than the one in Victoria. It has a few obvious cosmetic differences from standard but nothing that can't be readily fixed. It is an automatic and they are usually a little cheaper than a manual( auto box is however much cheaper to repair than a manual box). This car may well be worth an inspection.

Do not under any circumstances ever buy a 190E 16v car without a thorough inspection by someone who especially knows a lot about 16V's---not just someone who knows a lot about MBs. There are some features/parts of the engine that are unique to this model which are extremely expensive to replace and unfortunately one part is no longer available from MB, even MB Classic -- nor will they be making it again! The Getrag manual box is shared with verious BMW's but again is in scarce supply. The diff is a 124 part but again expensive. The 16v's an be purchased cheaply mainly because after being thrashed the repair costs are disproportionally high compared to their market value. They get unloaded and the next buyer cops the money sponge.

I really am not trying to turn you off these cars but am supporting Greg's advice to proceed with caution and great patience. The 2.5-16 is more of a Mercedes in that it has had some of the 2.3-16 blemishes smoothed over but few are available locally. Given that in round numbers only 5000 2.5-16's were made versus 20,000 2.3-16's, and that all are personal imports in Australia, 2.5-16's are pretty scarce on the ground but if a good one is available locally I hope that I get to it before you do! A 2.5-16 carries the auto box far better than the 2.3-16 so don't get put off too much by an auto box in a 2.5-16.

I am also based in Sydney so send me a PM if you need any info on these cars.
oz coz

1986 190E 2.3-16 Blue-Black
1990 300TE Diamond Blue
1987 190E 2.6 Signal Red

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McBenz
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by McBenz » Sun 24 Jun, 2012 11:27 pm

Gday. Ive also been on the search for a nice 16v for the last year or so. Seen a fair few 2.3s pop up but not many 2.5s.
This one is still for sale down here in Canberra. I took it for a test drive and had an inspection done on it and wasnt particularly impressed. PM me if you want some more info on it but im in the middle of exams at the moment so might take a little while to get back to you.
http://www.gulson.com.au/VehiclesListin ... k_No=U2424

Theres also this one in Adelaide. The car looks awesome from the pictures Ive seen and the guy selling it seems like a nice bloke who knows his stuff but I was turned off by the fact that the old self levelling suspension system has been taken out of it.
http://www.stuttgartclassics.com/FOR-SALE.php

I got a bit sick of driving around in my MG in the Canberra winter so I picked up a cheap 380se but im still looking for the Cossie of my dreams!

Good luck with your search

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aquaihoi
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by aquaihoi » Thu 15 Nov, 2012 3:38 pm

Hey guys I just bought the 190e Cossie from Stuttgartclassics . . . got what I paid for, but there is a long list of some minor and some semi major stuff to do to it before its perfect which was expected and told to me by one very honest seller, I don't plan to make it concours perfect, but perfect how I think perfect is - it howls . . . you should see Mike's other race cars, this thing turns on car alarms on parked cars if you blip the throttle a little as you drive by, I will be giving it a bit more hp's I think I will be satisfied at about 240 hp, even in its current form it's a bit of a monster at only 2.3 litres - engineered right. Very good buy.
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AndrewsSL/SEL
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by AndrewsSL/SEL » Thu 15 Nov, 2012 9:50 pm

Pics please!
Andrew

86 Diamond Blue 420SEL [That is being parted out and stripped for spares]
87 Red 190E 2.6 [Cossie Bodykit, R129SL 4pots/rotors, Bilstein/H&R suspension=GOKART]
87 White 300SL R107 Roadster [Which has sadly become a bit of a garage queen]
89 Nautical Blue 420SEL [The new Limo thats now the wife and sons daily driver with hot old Lorinser LO rims]
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AMG
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by AMG » Tue 04 Dec, 2012 12:12 pm

There is a 16v Secret Society you know :laughing6: It's called the Luftwaffe.

Specializing in low flying objects.

Membership is exclusive and invite only. :king: :glasses2:

With some carefully applied knowledge, These cars will snort, growl, scream and explode like no other car.

The trick is to get the snort, growl and scream, without the explosion.

explosions are expensive. VERY expensive. And you thought AMG parts were pricey.. :laughing5: :laughing5:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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SuprHasan
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by SuprHasan » Wed 05 Dec, 2012 11:02 am

JoeB wrote:explosions are expensive. VERY expensive. And you thought AMG parts were pricey.. :laughing5: :laughing5:
And since the 16v wasn't sold here, the parts are also uber rare and must all be imported.
Yes, I knew that before I bought mine, but I cringe at the thought of diagnosing and fixing a mystery problem.
SuprHasan
2012 C250 CDI Wagon(Sebastian)
2006 Peugot 307 XSR HDI (Sophie)
1988 190E 2.5-16 (George)
1996 Jaguar XJ6 X300 (Kitty)


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oz coz
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Re: Advice on looking for an 16v?

Post by oz coz » Wed 05 Dec, 2012 5:02 pm

Hi Hasan,

These cars are tough and reliable. They are as simple as other cars made at the same time and do not require a degree in rocket science to work on them.

Many parts are shared with other MB models. Where they are different is the cost of parts peculiar to the 16v and that many MB specialists have minimal experience in working on them--not surprising given that they were not released here and so few were made anyway.

Find someone who knows the 16v if you do not work on your 16v, and keep on top of the maintenance schedule.

They are relatively inexpensive to buy but can be expensive to maintain if you get a few bad breaks.

Regards
oz coz

1986 190E 2.3-16 Blue-Black
1990 300TE Diamond Blue
1987 190E 2.6 Signal Red

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