January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

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January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by konrad » Fri 22 Jan, 2016 9:17 pm

No doubt in the next few days we will hear people lamenting the fact that Australia was "invaded" by European settlers and that this is therefore a day, not for celebration, but for mourning.
Those people who, almost without exception, have some Australia Aboriginal ancestry, will show their resentment concerning this so called "invasion". They should, however understand that, those with any
non-Aboriginal ancestors would not have been born were it not for the genetic contribution of these forebears. Due to the dramatic effect that the arrival of Europeans had on the population it is highly improbable that any of today's "full blood" Australian Aboriginals would have been born. Of course, if no one had ever invaded this land then, possibly, full blooded Aboriginal people might still populate the land however these people who currently call themselves "Indigenous" would not exist. They would never have been born. Someone else might have been born but it wouldn't be them.
One day, hopefully we will see a time when our "indigenous" citizens will see that separation from the rest of society is not the way to peace and happiness and that assimilation is the only answer as has been demonstrated by so many people from so many different lands and cultures. This doesn't mean entirely abandoning ones culture but more of a blending of those traditions with the traditions of others.
finally before the abusive calls of "rascist" and "bigot" are hurled, know that I have on more than one occasion be arrested and locked up for standing by my Aboriginal brothers.
Considered and intelligently articulated argument is, on the other hand, invited and welcomed.

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by parker » Fri 22 Jan, 2016 10:44 pm

Don t care about.
But English people invaded or explored or whatever not European, that make the difference. Don t mix the english with the Europeans never ever

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Bartman4800 » Fri 22 Jan, 2016 11:50 pm

Mr. Parker,

The Dutch were here actually before the English, but we thought it not much worth because there were no spice trees and other natural resources (we though valuable at that time). We did leave a few men on the shore as punishment for murdering the rest of the passengers on the Batavia. There is scientific proof of ancient Dutch DNA in WA aborigines.

I am pretty sure there were a few of different nationality on board of the exploration fleet with Capt. Cook, so that would void your argument.
Furthermore almost all European countries have invaded, pillaged and disrupted one country or another (the Germans have Botswana among other countries in North Africa) so all Europeans are guilty in a matter of speaking. Belgium was built on the riches of enslaving the Congolese people to gather natural rubber, killing millions in the process....
The Dutch enslaved part of Indonesia for more than 3 centuries...

Anyhoo, I agree with Phil here up to a certain point.
Yes, some Aboriginal people could stop seeing themselves as different (remember Bob Marley: Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, non but ourselves can free our own mind).
But the non-aboriginal population still has lots of prejudice against indigenous people which makes it very daunting for them to rise above.
I live in a low socio-economic area where domestic violence seems to be common (yes very sad, I know). Some (partly) indigenous, some from convict stock, some were migrant in one era or another (a lot of 10 pound poms around here too).

In some way, we almost have to make a fresh start. But that is easy for me to say. Both parties will have to come together.
Despite the low socio-economic status, my club (Medina Resident Group) organizes a community festival where people from all backgrounds are invited.
Indigenous elder women cook up a kangaroo stew among other dishes, there is a smoke ceremony, there is aboriginal dancing by the local noongar group, and then there is tribal drumming by a "western" group, line dancing, a singing contest and lots of other things.
And it really brings people together. So it's a start....

Happy Australia and Invasion day.

Bart
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by T-Modell » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 12:55 am

Well,

congrats to you guys down under. I cannot and will not enter the discussion about Oz' history, but one thing that baffled me, when I visited the immigration museum in Melbourne, was that until 1914 (when we Germans weren't liked any more), the Germans was the second-biggest immigration group after the English. Quite surprising.

Enjoy and celebrate your Australia Day!
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by parker » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 9:19 am

Hi Bartmann

It is irelevant to the question, if the the Dutch or any other country invaded other countries.
The whole world was invaded, the english have all german genetic running in there blood.
Did you ever had a look into the list of passenger of the the proud first and second fleet.
I assume not or you can t read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... irst_Fleet


Of course Australya was invaded or is there any evidence that the English have asked the aboriginal people at this time and got permission,
No there legal talk was about terra nulius, blah blah
What your fellow Australians have to learn that they invaded this country and good is. You can t turn the time around that is reality and everybody has to live with it the aboriginal included.
But as long people like Conny spread the poison Australia is known as a nazi country in the world and will be

Heil Australia

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Djenka018 » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 11:18 am

Konrad,

...
Someone else might have been born but it wouldn't be them.
...
Mick and Mike would not exist if some events took a different path but Jack and John would. Maybe just Jack, maybe Jack and Jill, but potentially it could be all three of them too.
Also, Perhaps Jack's offsprings could have survived unlike MIke's so another army of Skipp, Tom and Pauline's would have been walking the earth (or other way round)

Perhaps you want to redact your original post to exclude logical fallacies?
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 11:41 am

Please don't try to rewrite history.

What happened in previous eras is not relevant to today's "Political Correct" environment.

The earliest European explorers deemed Australia to be of little economic value. On return to Europe (and China) they reported back that they deemd the coastal areas they landed at seemed worthless to try and cultivate, had little economically viable produce to harvest and there were hostile primitive "indigenous tribes" to contend with.

The British planned very small self sustaining penal settlements for Australia. The invasion if you like that term came when gold was discovered in the 1850's.

The first fleet convict ships were not proud pioneers. They were hard labour prisoner vessels. The ships were squalid and many passengers died on the journey out from Europe.

The Dutch East Indies wasn't enslaved - it was colonised. The local people had a long a proud civilization. The Dutch and British weren't even the first colonizers - The Sri-Wijaya Kingdom stretched from Thailand to Flores. The Dutch didn't bother utilising the indigenous population in the East Indies - they imported indentured workers from China and India to work in the plantations and help with the administrations.

Chinese Pirates effectively controlled many of the coastal towns around South East Asia for years prior to the Europeans arrived
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Bartman4800 » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 4:51 pm

Thanks Ivanerrol to set the history book straight for Australia.

Mr. Parker: I don't like the vitriolic tone in your message. It does not encourage a sensible discussion.

Yes the colonization of Oz has brought good things to the country, but you cannot easily step over the fact that up till the 70's aboriginal children of mixed race were still taken away by the government for "their own good". Australia did not treat indigenous people well at all. And I can understand the deep seated grief, mistrust and anger that the older generation of indigenous people has.

However, I also must acknowledge that "the system" is being rorted and too many people (among which indigenous) milk the system for their own use.

Konrad has tried to start a discussion here, and I am adding my bit as a "new Australian". I do not feel responsible for what my forefathers did, but I am not insensitive to the hurt that was caused by their actions.

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by otr002 » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 6:46 pm

konrad wrote:No doubt in the next few days we will hear people lamenting the fact that Australia was "invaded" by European settlers and that this is therefore a day, not for celebration, but for mourning.
Those people who, almost without exception, have some Australia Aboriginal ancestry, will show their resentment concerning this so called "invasion". They should, however understand that, those with any
non-Aboriginal ancestors would not have been born were it not for the genetic contribution of these forebears. Due to the dramatic effect that the arrival of Europeans had on the population it is highly improbable that any of today's "full blood" Australian Aboriginals would have been born. Of course, if no one had ever invaded this land then, possibly, full blooded Aboriginal people might still populate the land however these people who currently call themselves "Indigenous" would not exist. They would never have been born. Someone else might have been born but it wouldn't be them.
One day, hopefully we will see a time when our "indigenous" citizens will see that separation from the rest of society is not the way to peace and happiness and that assimilation is the only answer as has been demonstrated by so many people from so many different lands and cultures. This doesn't mean entirely abandoning ones culture but more of a blending of those traditions with the traditions of others.
finally before the abusive calls of "rascist" and "bigot" are hurled, know that I have on more than one occasion be arrested and locked up for standing by my Aboriginal brothers.
Considered and intelligently articulated argument is, on the other hand, invited and welcomed.

Congratulations :dance: not only are you a bigot but also a divisive, ignorant bigot.

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by parker » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 6:48 pm

Hi Bartmann,
vitriolic tone is part if you are not political correct.
You told me that among the first people arrived in terra australis were Europeans, that is not the truth as shown in the document.
All the other talk about Indonesia and other colonies or rort of the system is only a deflection from the core question

Australia Day or Invasion Day?

England s invasion is based on the idea of uninhabited land, Terra Nullius
But there were people living, the english called them Aboriginal
So the land was not uninhabited and people living there haven t given any permission to the English to settle.
The only conclusion can be that it was in invasion.
Everything else is brainless talk.
I don t6 understand that there is still a discussion about, change it to another date, perhaps the invention day of thongs or VB.
VB would be good that will include a lot of Aboriginal, too :laughing5:

On one of my push bike trips through Terra Nullius I have met a guy who lived in green can valley near Alice Springs, after he arrived from Katherine with his camel.

Peter

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by otr002 » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 6:56 pm

parker wrote:Hi Bartmann,
vitriolic tone is part if you are not political correct.
You told me that among the first people arrived in terra australis were Europeans, that is not the truth as shown in the document.
All the other talk about Indonesia and other colonies or rort of the system is only a deflection from the core question

Australia Day or Invasion Day?

England s invasion is based on the idea of uninhabited land, Terra Nullius
But there were people living, the english called them Aboriginal
So the land was not uninhabited and people living there haven t given any permission to the English to settle.
The only conclusion can be that it was in invasion.
Everything else is brainless talk.
I don t6 understand that there is still a discussion about, change it to another date, perhaps the invention day of thongs or VB.
VB would be good that will include a lot of Aboriginal, too :laughing5:

On one of my push bike trips through Terra Nullius I have met a guy who lived in green can valley near Alice Springs, after he arrived from Katherine with his camel.

Peter
Sorry Peter, but Terra Nullius is latin for unturned soil. The British law allowed the British at the time to "colonise" unturned soil. This by their law meant that they did not have to accept the current "law of the land" of that country.

New Zealand on the other hand was "settled" as the land was being used (tilled, cropped) and as such "Terra Nullius" did not apply, this forced the British (after a lengthy war in which they tried to subdue the People, to impose British law) to accept the law of the land and integrate some of their own laws, hence the "treaty of waitangi".

Hope this helps your argument :laughing6:

otr002

Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by otr002 » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 7:49 pm

Bartman4800 wrote:
Despite the low socio-economic status, my club (Medina Resident Group) organizes a community festival where people from all backgrounds are invited.
Indigenous elder women cook up a kangaroo stew among other dishes, there is a smoke ceremony, there is aboriginal dancing by the local noongar group, and then there is tribal drumming by a "western" group, line dancing, a singing contest and lots of other things.
And it really brings people together. So it's a start....

Happy Australia
You had me there until the….line dancing

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by konrad » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 9:07 pm

Dear, dear. How terribly sad the some people just can't hep themselves. They just have to revert to personal abuse.
Of course this is effectively an acknowledgement that they cannot sustain their argument. Pity.
I saw a segment on ABC news about some young indigenous girls graduating from year 12.
How wonderful it will be when such events are no longer newsworthy.
Congratulation Bartman. We all need to get together and celebrate this wonderful country. All strength to you arm and keep up the good work.
Hey Thomas. We love Germans. In fact, I'm starting German language classes in two weeks time.

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by parker » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 9:42 pm

More australian ambassadors in Germany
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaoSw4kj-uU

:laughing6:

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by cuisses » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 10:33 pm

konrad wrote: Hey Thomas. We love Germans. In fact, I'm starting German language classes in two weeks time.
Yes, just because we sometimes shoot at you doesn't mean we don't like you. :blackeye:
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 10:41 pm

Just to set the record straight.

Australia is the term for Terra Australis - Great Southern land.

Named before it was discovered.

Aboriginal is a generic term for indigenous person inhabiting a land before European settlement.
Thus Inuit and North American Indians are Aborigines.

The correct colloquial term is Australian Aborigine. - In reality Indigenous Australians.

To make matters more controversial, the Judges in the Mabo High Court decision politically decided that the Australian Aborigines as we currently know them are the original inhabitants and "owners" of Australia.
This went against the overwhelming scientific anthropological evidence that this wasn't the case.
There is ample evidence of humans inhabiting Northern Australia pre Toba. Mungo Man and the current indigenous races are post Toba

Terra Nullis was reserved for lands where no structured human society existed. e.g only hunter gatherers
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Bartman4800 » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 10:45 pm

parker wrote:Hi Bartmann,
vitriolic tone is part if you are not political correct.
You told me that among the first people arrived in terra australis were Europeans, that is not the truth as shown in the document.

So the land was not uninhabited and people living there haven t given any permission to the English to settle.
The only conclusion can be that it was in invasion.

Peter
So we agree that it was an invasion, just as I stated before :laughing6:

No need to sling mud, since we were not in disagreement, and neither you were with Konrad. He was not disputing there was an invasion.
He merely stated to get over it and move forward together as one nation with all colours.

As often, this discussion got somehow misinterpreted, and went pear-shaped from there...

Bart
Last edited by Bartman4800 on Sat 23 Jan, 2016 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by 70499 » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 10:59 pm

otr002 wrote: Congratulations :dance: not only are you a bigot but also a divisive, ignorant bigot.
Lame comment. You sir are #butthurt
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by parker » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 11:59 pm

Hello everybody

terra nullius means no(ones) land that is the only translation, everything else is interpretation, so far to get the record straight.
As a legal interpretation everybody can look it up in the net

@ Ivan
There is ample evidence of humans inhabiting Northern Australia pre Toba. Mungo Man and the current indigenous races are post Toba.

Do you know if the Munga Man and his wife and the other pre Toba people were part of the case or perhaps they weren t present at the court hearing :book:
What I find funny, that lawyers have such a bad and cheaty reputation, but in this case every nasty interpretation is welcomed.
Like the german song
Wie das Faehnchen auf dem Turme sich kann drehen bei Wind und Sturme, so sollen sich Konrads Haendchen drehen dass es eine Freude es anzusehen

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Bartman4800 » Sun 24 Jan, 2016 7:43 pm

Thanks for your enlightening contribution
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by konrad » Sun 24 Jan, 2016 9:46 pm

parker wrote:Hello everybody

Wie das Faehnchen auf dem Turme sich kann drehen bei Wind und Sturme, so sollen sich Konrads Haendchen drehen dass es eine Freude es anzusehen
Hey Parker (or other),
May we please have a translation.

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by konrad » Sun 24 Jan, 2016 9:49 pm

parker wrote:Hello everybody

Wie das Faehnchen auf dem Turme sich kann drehen bei Wind und Sturme, so sollen sich Konrads Haendchen drehen dass es eine Freude es anzusehen
may we please have a translation.
(anyone)

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Bartman4800 » Sun 24 Jan, 2016 10:14 pm

Wie das Faehnchen auf dem Turme sich kann drehen bei Wind und Sturme, so sollen sich Konrads Haendchen drehen dass es eine Freude es anzusehen

Being a non native German speaker, I will have a go (at the chance of ridicule)

Like the windvane/little flag on the tower will turn at wind or storm, so will Konrad's little hands turn so that its joyful to watch.

It is a children's song, Mr. Parker has added the Konrad to his own liberty.

http://www.babyforum.de/threads/11050-s ... kinderlied


It is probably a lame attempt at trying to be funny. But that might be German humor for you, too hard to grasp for other mortals.


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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by konrad » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 12:11 pm

Whatever the message, it is too subtle/obscure/cryptic/ for me. ????
I was just trying to point out that for most indigenous people to regret the "invasion" of Australia is to regret their own existence.
Such regret creates the situation whereby hate of whites (quite prevalent with the young dis-advantaged) effectively means hate of self.
"I hate those white B....s. But I have white forebears. So ??????"
This creates a situation where young people with no love/respect for the white community nor any for their elders and even less for themselves.
The result of this is high crime/incarceration rates for indigenous youth and generational transmission of this hate.
Did you see that little kid on TV swearing and spitting at the police? That's what I mean.
The solution ???
Acceptance and Love.
Next time you pass a "blackfellow" on the street say "gidday". Don't be put off if you get no response just keep it up.
Don't know if it will work but hey....we've got to try something.

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 12:47 pm

+1

It might sound a bit airy fairy but I believe things along the same lines.

Whenever I meet someone in the street in my local area, I say "Hi" with a smile. If I know the person and I have time, I stop for a chat.
If I encounter someone while in the car, I raise my hand and wave at him/her.

Maybe 99 out of a 100 times it has no effect. But maybe 1 person in those 100 thinks "hmm how nice to wave, maybe he likes me"

If I can make 1 person feel better just by a smile or a wave, I believe that will rub off to the rest of the community.


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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by parker » Mon 25 Jan, 2016 6:48 pm

Bartmann
perhaps you are living in the wrong country, 1 out of 100 is pretty weak. I ve got a improved greating rate of 3%, the rest is running away
Ze germans are more polite to dutch people.
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by CraigB » Tue 26 Jan, 2016 12:10 am

Just for fun i should post the three replies i have in my drafts folder written over the last few days and then decided to shelve! I don't want to respond to most of what is written here and thanks for your last post Konrad that builds on the points you were making in the first place to try and bring back on track. With genuine respect I disagree, but you might be right and i see your point. My experience is that no matter how they look or what % of genetics, people either identify with being
Aboriginal or not, and it they do it is with the more likely they will think of it as invasion day. ( I don't really like saying 'Aboriginal people' anymore than German, Dutch etc as if to imply they are all the same) As an ecologist I can't help respecting a highly developed sustainable community that had developed with low inputs over 40+k yrs, so instead of invasion day i could think of it as destruction day, but equally it doesn't solve anything or help us move forward.

I totally agree with love and acceptance and add in respect, tolerance, understanding and try and put yourself in the other persons shoes. If everyone did that eg "i wonder how it would feel if all those years ago your ancestors did some bad stuff and now you do your best but no matter what you do you get hammered for what happened in the past... how would that feel" And i am right with you on the wave/gidday/ how hard is it to smile - I don't walk past anyone without at least a smile. If you get a response it is like you become a community rather than a whole lot of self interested individuals wandering around. I get a pretty good response rate.

The bit i don't like are the statistics on health etc for Aboriginal people. If we could take every bit of energy that goes into all the sort of negative antagonistic stuff, and put that towards how to have a real effect.... I think together we need to find a solution but thats never gonna happen while we are divided. There is all this fuss tonight about this 'magnificent' speech of Stan Grant - media across the globe likening him to Martin Luther King - but without searching out that speech didn't Martys speech start with "I have a dream" - wasn't he looking forward? I just read the Grant speech and it is just seem to bang on about the past again, and thats ok but where is his answer? Apart from acknowledgment that some white people actually do care how does it help in anyway, how does it help his point that racism is destroying the Australian dream other than to drive that wedge in there a little deeper. How does it propose to have any real effect on health statistics, how many lives does it save. Do that and i will applaud the guy. Tell us about your dream and how we get to this better place. Tell me how i can help personally and not just that it is all my fault because of the colour of my skin. My personal experience is to feel excluded by Aboriginal people, to feel the effect of racism from them, but i say that without judgement because it is hard for me to put myself in their shoes. It would be hard to forget that past but things wont get better without looking forward. But if we can move past that, let me know if i can help out and/or explain the issues from your angle so i can spend more time coming up with suggestions for solutions - lets all look forward. (I have actually done some of this - take too long to explain but it has always come to nothing so far)

But to end more positively, over the dinner table we were talking about what Australia Day means - a 'celebration' - and what i celebrate and am proud of is 'when' we get that mix thing working so well of races, religion, socioeconomic difference. Plenty of examples where we don't but we can get it right - just look at Bartmans community group - respect, understanding, inclusiveness, acceptance that you can have a mix and it can work. Sometimes everyone can be happy and we don't have to tread on others and put them down so that we can be happy. Our kids can sing a couple of Aboriginal songs and when i hear them all singing at school assemblies i can't help but get a lump in my throat - wouldn't it be great if we could integrate more of traditional Aboriginal culture and be proud of it and 'own' some of it as part of the mix, and not us and them.
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Tony From West Oz » Tue 26 Jan, 2016 3:52 am

Craig,
Thank you, that was well written.
I also would like a 'way forward' to help all groups who have historical issues overcome the roadblocks that unjust actions of the past have created, so we can work towards a positive outcome for all.

Regards,
Tony
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by CraigB » Tue 26 Jan, 2016 9:32 am

I decided to read Marty's speech after all and it doesn't start I have a dream, but a great speech: http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeche ... adream.htm and for comparison here is Stan's: http://speakola.com/ideas/stan-grant-iq ... ebate-2015

One of them spends a whole lot more time looking forward, making clear demands to help people follow a path, and guidance of black and white and about working together - I like this bit and I think it sends a different message to what we usually hear:

"But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.

The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.

We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force.

The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to a distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom.

We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall always march ahead.

We cannot turn back."

I could go on pasting in bits of inspirational lines - let us not wallow in the valley of despair etc etc - but it is a different situation. My reading of it is that he is addressing a major rally of black and white and being quite specific about the blockages to this path eg. signs that so only whites, states where blacks don't have the vote etc. but his rally is to the blacks to do something and for them to do this from the 'high ground' and to use the help of the 'white brothers' to help on that path. I reckon it is worth a read and i was inspired and i think maybe this is the angle for Aboriginal people. They need a Marty, and then pick a day that unites us all, maybe the day of the referendum when the vote was given and i think the only or one of the few times in Australia when a referendum got an overwhelming positive response - i recall an old Aboriginal woman tear ing up talking about that saying she couldn't believe the response and that the whites cared that much. Then have this gathering to try and focus the basics of the what and how to both Aboriginal and non-aboriginal to move forward together. But it has to be the coming together thing or we just stay where we are. I just think there are hoards of non-aboriginals out there just waiting for the chance to do something but we have to be let in and not pushed away. And Aboriginals need to work out how to become one for these purposes, while still retaining their diversity and individual identity, along the lines of the 500 or so identifiable pre-european groups - sounds a bit like what i was referring to when Australia gets it right and we all combine as this mix that works while being proud of the diversity.
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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by konrad » Tue 26 Jan, 2016 10:12 am

Thanks Craig. Your response, along with others is the reason that I launched this subject. It informs us, makes us think and shows different perspectives.
Another great leader worth listening to is the late Nelson Mandela who also urged his countrymen to acknowledge the past and the wrongdoings of many and then to move forward together.
To Mr Grant I say "We are sorry for those Aboriginal Australians who have suffered as we are for the Vietnamese, Cambodians, Bosnians and those from almost every part of the world who have suffered oppression. Now what would you like us to do".

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by konrad » Tue 26 Jan, 2016 1:22 pm

I TOO HAVE a DREAM
In my dream the words "are you of Aboriginal or Torres Straight Islander descent" has been removed from all documents under pressure from the general population of indigenous Australians who have said "Take it away. We don't need that any more . We can stand on our own. We don't need to be treated differently. Treat us just the same as all Australians because that's what we are." At the same time as this was done all racially restrictive organisation were closed down and all Australians were now to be treated equally, according to need. Of course Government departments continued to accommodate cultural differences and languages.
An amazing change came over the whole Australian population as all people embraced this new epoch. Where, in the past there had been discrimination against and resentment of, indigenous Australians, now there was a out-flow of warmth towards them, friendships were formed and distrust and bitterness evaporated. At last all Australians were one people. Of course those of Italian descent still had their annual "tomato bottling day" , the Scots still drank Whiskey on New Years eve and the Chinese celebrated Chinese New Year in the traditional way. People from all cultures held onto their customs and shared these events with their neighbours.
as a very wise person once said "dreams are free so have big ones"

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Re: January 26th Australia Day or Invasion Day

Post by Bartman4800 » Wed 27 Jan, 2016 7:16 pm

Amen!

The Belgians still cultivate their "sansevieria's". The Bavarian's have their backslapping lederhosen dance. The French cook some frogs with pinot noir.
And the Pinoy eat their chicken adobo. The Dutch?...well they keep a little windmill in the front yard :drunken:

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