Targa Tasmania just over

Model 107 Specific Mods -
We seem to have a lot of posts around this particular model, I wonder why?!!???
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TargaSL
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Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Tue 04 May, 2010 4:15 pm

Here are some initial stills from the MercStar Racing Targa 2010 MerChevy Campaign

Day 1 started with a Subaru snapping a power pole half way up, horizontal rain and it was on for young and old from that point

we started out top ten classic but fell back after a minor slip off the road got us bogged. however we took a clean car to Hobart and we were overnight rock stars from our exuberant driving style

much more to come
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by SELfor50 » Tue 04 May, 2010 5:20 pm

Love it! F*#king GREAT Pics!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) / 8) 8) 8) 8)
5 out of 5 cool smileys. :lol: Wait, apparently you're only allowed 9 smileys... so downgraded to 4 out of 4.

No doubt with all that extra LS3 torque and HP you've made the road a whole bunch stickier for the locals.

Very keen to see the incar footage and any external if you have any?! (I know you're probably taking a breather after the event... understandably)

That last pic is an absolute cracker! Did the photographer have to enter the thunderdome and compete for a spot like that.. hahah... nice work mate.

Were there any other benz's competing??

Cam.

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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by AMG » Tue 04 May, 2010 8:15 pm

Love the pics, keep them coming :)
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by benzfan » Tue 04 May, 2010 8:54 pm

One word: PHWOAR!
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Wed 05 May, 2010 10:24 am

here is a spectator view of our over enthusiasm
which i must say the crowd loved

here is a spectator view of our over enthusiasm
which i must say the crowd loved

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QhP6t29vxE

much more entertaining than all the trophy prostitutes boring modern cars

Now that the MerChevy campaign was such a success we are planning our
"Rebel against the Nanny State Tour"

we are going to rip up the streets of Tasmania and make the moderns look like pussies

much more to come
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Wed 05 May, 2010 11:35 am

There was another SLC that was pottering around. it runs all standard trim
http://www.targa.org.au/Competitors/pro ... %20Classic

here is the Longford In Car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdgkm5ReRew

Stay tuned for the Targa MerChevy 2010 video out in a store near you soon
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by Notso Swift » Wed 05 May, 2010 11:55 am

I understand you had a mate of mines son crewing, Charlie Galea (I think his son is Tamis)

It looks like it gets up to the 100 mark in about 4.5 sec, impressive pace, though your 600 odd gg's do that.
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Wed 05 May, 2010 12:02 pm

Notso Swift wrote:I understand you had a mate of mines son crewing, Charlie Galea (I think his son is Tamis)

It looks like it gets up to the 100 mark in about 4.5 sec, impressive pace, though your 600 odd gg's do that.

Sure did here is the team shot

Actually it is the ability of the Merc chassis to cope with the power that is most impressive
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Wed 05 May, 2010 3:37 pm

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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by Giles » Wed 05 May, 2010 9:52 pm

Nice work Paul.

Regards,

Giles
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by Michel » Thu 06 May, 2010 6:45 am

That's an impressive car. Congratulations

Not to mention the rest of the fleet and the dogs... :P
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by SELfor50 » Thu 06 May, 2010 9:18 am

What gearbox are you running Paul?

Have you thought about down-tuning the car for a run... no doubt you'd still get plenty of sideways action at will, but you'd be able to get a little more throttle control to do a few tidyer runs and have a crack at ripper times!

Also, have you thought about heading up for the FOSC bathurst event at all next year? It'd be a great warm-up to the Targa! Mount Panorama and Targa within a month.. I don't think even Keith Richards would ever have gotten that high. :lol: :roll:

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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Thu 06 May, 2010 2:22 pm

Our next projects are to do a Ken Block closed runway day, then Bathurst and then the Nurburg Ring to do a sub 8 min run

See the silver Arrows guys binned thier car last outing
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Thu 06 May, 2010 2:24 pm

SELfor50 wrote:What gearbox are you running Paul?

Have you thought about down-tuning the car for a run... no doubt you'd still get plenty of sideways action at will, but you'd be able to get a little more throttle control to do a few tidyer runs and have a crack at ripper times!
Turbo 700 as it matches the Chevy without too much fuss

yes i am going to invent an anti supercharger, or an induction restrictor, mainly to get some pedal feel for the wet
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by SELfor50 » Thu 06 May, 2010 5:01 pm

TargaSL wrote:Our next projects are to do a Ken Block closed runway day, then Bathurst and then the Nurburg Ring to do a sub 8 min run

See the silver Arrows guys binned thier car last outing

Good stuff. probably need to add a Hydraulic handbrake and a Manual GB before a KB style closed runway day.

Is the Sub 8min Nurburgring run with Horst behind the wheel???

Was thinking it would be a Turbo.


Anti SC? Couldn't you just have an ECU with 2 different tunes and swap between the 2? That's possible now isn't it?


Cam.

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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by Greg in Oz » Thu 06 May, 2010 10:35 pm

Paul,

Great photos and video! I'm right behind you on the "nanny state" stuff too (as is Mark Webber).

I'm not sure about the need for detuning. Surely more conservative use of the loud pedal can achieve the same result. I'm also not sure that a restrictor on the inlet side will achieve any better throttle feel as a restrictor will really only come into play at wide open throttle. Perhaps the throttle actuation or linkages need looking at. MB went to great lengths with their throttle linkages to provide for a very progressive action with little throttle opening early in the pedal travel followed by significant opening of the butterfly in the last part of the pedal travel. Whilst this gives the often criticised "long pedal travel" impression in MBs, it also means that you don't get that hair trigger early in the pedal travel of many other cars. The hair trigger throttles may give an impression of a powerful and responsive engine, but they can also cause a loss of traction and control, particularly with inexperienced drivers. Obviously I'm not suggesting any lack of power in your Targa SL (quite the opposite) nor any lack of driver experience. I'm just suggesting that with all that power and the suggestion for more throttle "feel", that a very progressive throttle linkage that gives very gentle throttle opening for much of the early part of the pedal travel is even more important. This could improve the driving experience without the need for any reduction in power at wide open throttle.

Now that we know what the transmission is, I'm curious about the diff. Does it still run a 107 MB diff and if so, what gear ratio? My curiousity comes about from the reputation of some MB diffs not being the strongest in the business. My MB enthusiast father-in-law often refers to them as having "glass diffs". I believe his opinion is based on the diff in the 6.3 often not being up to handling the torque of the M100. Further along from the diff, are you still running standard 107 half shafts? I ask all this because I sometimes worry when I give the 500SLC plenty on the loud pedal in 1st gear whether the diff and half shafts can handle the torque. The half shafts don't look that thick to me. In fact, my 190E 2.3 being a manual has thicker half shafts than all our other cars. The thicker (32mm) half shafts were a design change to the "update" models of the 124 and 201 with manual transmission.

Greg
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Fri 07 May, 2010 10:21 am

SELfor50 wrote:

Good stuff. probably need to add a Hydraulic handbrake and a Manual GB before a KB style closed runway day.

Is the Sub 8min Nurburgring run with Horst behind the wheel???

Was thinking it would be a Turbo.


Anti SC? Couldn't you just have an ECU with 2 different tunes and swap between the 2? That's possible now isn't it?


Cam.
If you need a handbrake your going too slow !!
whos Horst, Daniel and i woudl get a local track expert to brief us on the track, maybe do a couple of runs and we will make pace notes

you can only change the GM ECU by hacking in a uploading a different file. this woudl be too much fuss and too risky to do between competitive sections. MOtecs have got more variation in their tuning but cost more than the engine
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Fri 07 May, 2010 11:05 am

Greg in Oz wrote:Paul,

Great photos and video! I'm right behind you on the "nanny state" stuff too (as is Mark Webber).

I'm not sure about the need for detuning. Surely more conservative use of the loud pedal can achieve the same result. I'm also not sure that a restrictor on the inlet side will achieve any better throttle feel as a restrictor will really only come into play at wide open throttle. Perhaps the throttle actuation or linkages need looking at.

Now that we know what the transmission is, I'm curious about the diff. Does it still run a 107 MB diff and if so, what gear ratio? My curiousity comes about from the reputation of some MB diffs not being the strongest in the business.

In fact, my 190E 2.3 being a manual has thicker half shafts than all our other cars. The thicker (32mm) half shafts were a design change to the "update" models of the 124 and 201 with manual transmission.

Greg
if you look closely you will see i had a sticker "Escape the Nanny State - Race a Classic" on the boot. My message to the poor miserable wretched kiddies that did not grow up in 70's when life was free

The restrictor thing is an idea i developed during the race. the first day was horizontal rain and we got water in the induction. this led the MAF sensor to make the car splutter so we put a couple of layers of cloth across to keep it out. It magically reduced the torque by half and made the noise pedal much more usable in the dicey wet stuff. This got me thinking that i could put a variable restrictor plate in and have it movable from the dash. this would allow me to dynamically vary the engine performance. i was going to have 3 basic settings Wet/Dry/Dear God. just something i am experimenting with as i have about only 5mm noise pedal tolerance in the wet

the diff is bullet proof. we have used a 3.46 and changed the locker mechanism from the useless factory stuff (wouldn't even lat a single Targa) into t a V8 supercar ramp and plate, but all Merc gears. we may need to go full Detroit locker though

in keeping with our "don't butcher the car" philosophy we modified the front half of the shaft but the rear is standard. we changed the rubber couping to a proper uni joint at the front though as it was not going to cop the torque. and the centre rubber will need to be filled as it was whacking against the tunnel under full noise in low gears

I gotta say this is a sensational car to drive now for a 30 year old bus

and these pics show why it needs to be tough
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Fri 07 May, 2010 12:47 pm

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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by Greg in Oz » Fri 07 May, 2010 10:58 pm

TargaSL wrote:in keeping with our "don't butcher the car" philosophy we modified the front half of the shaft but the rear is standard. we changed the rubber couping to a proper uni joint at the front though as it was not going to cop the torque. and the centre rubber will need to be filled as it was whacking against the tunnel under full noise in low gears
Paul,

I hadn't thought to ask about the tailshaft and its flex couplings. What I was curious about though when I asked about the half shafts was the rear axle shafts and their CV joints. Are these still standard 107 items? Traction allowing (which it clearly wouldn't in this instance), these items theoretically have to be able to to withstand the maximum engine torque multiplied by the 1st gear ratio multiplied by the diff ratio :shock:

Greg
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Mon 10 May, 2010 10:14 am

Greg in Oz wrote:
I hadn't thought to ask about the tailshaft and its flex couplings. What I was curious about though when I asked about the half shafts was the rear axle shafts and their CV joints. Are these still standard 107 items? Traction allowing (which it clearly wouldn't in this instance), these items theoretically have to be able to to withstand the maximum engine torque multiplied by the 1st gear ratio multiplied by the diff ratio :shock:

Greg
The GM ones are thicker but we put a proper uni joint up front given the slight off angle the engine ended up. you can also fill them with stiff goo

yes the drive shafts seem fine with 900Nm of torque
one of them had just shown the first sign of wear towards the end. they are the original shafts now 30 years old
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by SELfor50 » Tue 11 May, 2010 5:17 pm

TargaSL wrote: If you need a handbrake your going too slow !!
whos Horst, Daniel and i woudl get a local track expert to brief us on the track, maybe do a couple of runs and we will make pace notes

you can only change the GM ECU by hacking in a uploading a different file. this woudl be too much fuss and too risky to do between competitive sections. MOtecs have got more variation in their tuning but cost more than the engine

A good hydraulic handbrake is almost a necessity for Gymkhana.
Been in a car with Rick Bates, and I can tell you he uses the handbrake a decent amount when precision driving.

Horst von something... test driver of a million different cars at the ring.

Are you going to actually take the Merchevy to the Nurburgring?? Is that the aim? If so, that would bloody great!!!! 8) 8)

Motecs do cost a decent amount of $$ but if you spend the money and get the right tune / maps etc... then it's the matter of pretty much trucking a switch for different sectors. Would be worth it 100% for mine.


Alot of people seem to worry about the half-shafts, but 900nm of torque is testament that they can hold up. So the tailshaft now has a uni joint on the front and beyond that is 1 piece solid tailshaft?
When I complete the EFI and Blower upgrade on the 6.9SE I'll be going to a 1 Piece Tailshaft and probably switch to the flange half-shaft option. Where the flange inserts into the diff housing / diff and then bolts onto the half shaft... I think that's right?!

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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by Greg in Oz » Tue 11 May, 2010 11:38 pm

SELfor50 wrote:Alot of people seem to worry about the half-shafts, but 900nm of torque is testament that they can hold up.
It's just that the half shafts have to withstand the greatest amount of torque of any part of the drivetrain. If there's 900Nm at the engine and 1st gear has a ratio of say 2.5:1, then there's 900 x 2.5 or 2250Nm in the tailshaft. If the rear axle (diff) ratio is say 3.5:1, then each half shaft has to deal with half of 2250 x 3.5 or over 3900Nm of torque! Obviously tyre adhesion would never be sufficient to allow sustained torque numbers this high however instantaneous or shock loads could easily be this great. I'm making a few assumptions with these calculations such as ignoring any losses although I'm also ignoring any torque multiplication within the torque converter.

I am still curious as to why MB engineers felt it necessary to give the update versions of the 124 and 201 with manual transmissions thicker half shafts than those with auto transmissions. I can only assume it was to deal with the possible greater shock loads in the manual transmission cars. The half shafts in my 190E look very thick compared to those in all our other MBs including my 500SLC, even though the 2.3 in the 190E is only good for 200Nm compared to 410Nm from the 5 litre in the 500SLC. Also in the back of my mind is the time I bumped into the buyer of our 123 300TD some time after we sold it. On asking him how the old wagon was going, he replied that it had been good apart from the misfortune of breaking a CV joint soon after he purchased it from us. I can remember being surprised that the minimal output of the old diesel would be capable of breaking a CV joint.

Sorry to get a bit off-topic from the original discussion, but it is interesting to learn from Paul's experiences with his very high performance 107 as to which standard components can withstand this treatment and which cannot.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Fri 21 May, 2010 3:10 pm

SELfor50 wrote:
Are you going to actually take the Merchevy to the Nurburgring?? Is that the aim? If so, that would bloody great!!!! 8) 8)

Motecs do cost a decent amount of $$ but if you spend the money and get the right tune / maps etc... then it's the matter of pretty much trucking a switch for different sectors. Would be worth it 100% for mine.

Alot of people seem to worry about the half-shafts, but 900nm of torque is testament that they can hold up. So the tailshaft now has a uni joint on the front and beyond that is 1 piece solid tailshaft?
When I complete the EFI and Blower upgrade on the 6.9SE I'll be going to a 1 Piece Tailshaft and probably switch to the flange half-shaft option. Where the flange inserts into the diff housing / diff and then bolts onto the half shaft... I think that's right?!
thats the goal eventually - sub 8 mins too
it is the only way to control a supercharged M117
the uni joints will take a bigger battering than rubber things
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Fri 21 May, 2010 3:21 pm

Greg in Oz wrote:
SELfor50 wrote:Alot of people seem to worry about the half-shafts, but 900nm of torque is testament that they can hold up.
It's just that the half shafts have to withstand the greatest amount of torque of any part of the drivetrain. If there's 900Nm at the engine and 1st gear has a ratio of say 2.5:1, then there's 900 x 2.5 or 2250Nm in the tailshaft. If the rear axle (diff) ratio is say 3.5:1, then each half shaft has to deal with half of 2250 x 3.5 or over 3900Nm of torque! Obviously tyre adhesion would never be sufficient to allow sustained torque numbers this high however instantaneous or shock loads could easily be this great. I'm making a few assumptions with these calculations such as ignoring any losses although I'm also ignoring any torque multiplication within the torque converter.

Sorry to get a bit off-topic from the original discussion, but it is interesting to learn from Paul's experiences with his very high performance 107 as to which standard components can withstand this treatment and which cannot.
The torque was chassis dynoed at 904nm in third gear power run
here is the chart
SL dyno run.jpg
It was the tailshaft that was flimsy. it was going out of-round off the mark and thumping the tunnel!! we put a uni joint in the front and filled the center bearing housing with goop to reduce the flex.

Autos definitely have less shock to the drivetrain given their fluid coupling, manuals are much harsher, especially when you drop it off the line. the original drive shafts have coped all the abuse thus far though we will check them over as with the diff

So far the machinery is coping with the abuse far better than many other classics at Targa
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Re: Targa Tasmania just over

Post by TargaSL » Fri 21 May, 2010 3:30 pm

we have started doing some of the mix down from the various sources of media

you can see the collection of in car stuff as well as the infamous Longford street section madness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw4g1ivxYgY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL04txMSVPU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eot58wMr_-o


we will make it a bit more professional as the weeks go by

enjoy
PR
1980 W107 - Der Panzervagen
2003 R230 - Glamour
2011 W164 - AMG Diesel

Escape the Nanny State
Race a Classic

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