A few issues with coolant / heater valve, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

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A few issues with coolant / heater valve, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Sun 17 Sep, 2017 5:08 pm

Afternoon all,

Since my major brake rebuild, I've been enjoying relatively trouble-free motoring, but have had some minor issues that I probably should address in the short to medium term:

Coolant Leak

I've had a slow weep from the hose indicated by arrow 1 in the attached photo. This hose looks a bit strange, so just wondering if it is standard or looks modified to those who know the OM617 well.

Just today I noticed a pinhole leak in the little hard line indicated by arrow 2. I wonder if I can just braise this? Maybe I should just get a new one? (I'm hoping get little pool of coolant on top of the water pump is just from the pinhole leak, but this remains to be seen).
water pump 2.JPG
Crankcase Vent

I cannot for the life of me stop this thing leaking oil between the vent nipple and valve cover. I've taken it apart several times and sealed with high-temp RTV silicone, but it always ends up leaking again and making a mess. Any thoughts on how to better seal it?
valve cover.JPG
Fuel tank overflow

No major drama on this one. This drips reasonably regularly, yet I don't think I've ever filled the tank completely. I usually throw 20L of biodiesel in at a time and add another when the fuel light comes on. Why would it drip like this?
fuel overflow.JPG
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Last edited by 3DB on Fri 17 Nov, 2017 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
3DB
1976 W123 300D (weekend warrior on biodiesel)
1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by tsharkey » Sun 17 Sep, 2017 9:04 pm

Hi Ethan,
Happy to hear you are getting some good use out of the car. You had a tough patch a while back.

The hose in #1 is normal. As the weather warms, I imagine the pressure on system will increase so I would look to replace. Make sure it isn't corrosion on either side allowing coolant to weep past. Do you see coolant spraying out of the pinhole leak in #2 ? Would try a braze repair #2 while I was at it.

For the vent leak, when you find out how to fix, let me know as all mine get grotty around that area. They don't actually leak oil on the road but are never clean.

That hose is for the fuel spill at the filler. When you wash the car, water will flow through that as well. Is it partially blocked and dripping BioD-oily water ?

Cheers,
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD 5 Speed Manual, to teach the kids how to drive
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by Tony From West Oz » Sun 17 Sep, 2017 10:18 pm

Coolant issues: 1. Replace aged radiator hose. 2. Braze up the leaky coolant pipe.
Crankcase ventilation elbow on cam cover - replace the old elbow which has hardened from the years in that hot environment.
Filler drain pipe. It may be blocked, allowing spilt fuel in the filler area to stay there and slowly drip out. Test by putting hose in area to see if the water runs out fast.
Have fun and report back on the outcomes of our suggestions.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Mon 18 Sep, 2017 7:36 pm

Thanks, gents.

I will order a new coolant hose and vent elbow and give the filler overflow a clean out.

I'm keen to have a crack at the brazing myself. Do you think I need an oxy to get it hot enough? I suspect my little butane-powered solering iron won't produce enough heat, but maybe one of those Bernzomatic pencil torches like this?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bernzomatic- ... SwNsdXTjFh
3DB
1976 W123 300D (weekend warrior on biodiesel)
1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by Tony From West Oz » Mon 18 Sep, 2017 9:08 pm

3DB, I have a MAPP Gas torch (from the big green shed) which easily gets hot enough for silver soldering and most likely for brazing too. I use it for plumbing jobs. Their latest offering is a Trade Flame Ultra Gas (TF/ULTRA GAS) but it has a disposable gas canister.
Remove the pipe from the engine before doing the job.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by merc-304 » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 8:51 am

If your going to remove the pipe from the engine just to braze it and repair a hole........ Make make a new section up with some new pipe and reuse the original fittings.
380 SEC

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 2:22 pm

I had a go at soldering the coolant line with silver solder. As I removed the top banjo bolt the line cracked at the point it joins to the bottom bolt creating another similar leak. I was able to get a good seal on the top one, but struggled to get the solder to stick to the bottom part. I thought I'd got it, but as this video shows, I didn't. I think I will have to order a new line and banjo bolts as they are also corroded pretty badly and could break off inside the block. Merc-304: I don't think I could make a new line as it seems to be pressed or otherwise sealed into the banjo ends.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZ5mCa7hHzU/

IMG_6316.JPG
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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by mathuisella » Wed 11 Oct, 2017 6:42 pm

Hi 3db

how'd you go with the issues? all sorted ?

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Mon 16 Oct, 2017 7:28 pm

Not quite yet, Mathuisella.

I got a new meal pipe and banjo bolts from MB Spares ($25 for pipe + $8 for 2 bolts), but they didn't have the piece of radiator hose in stock, so I will have to find a piece at Repco the same diameter and cut to length.

I went to take that hose off on Friday, but it looks like I'll need to remove the thermostat assembly to get the hose out without cutting it.

Does that sound right to those who've done it before? As with anything, I'd rather leave well enough alone if I don't have to remove the thermostat assembly. But no worries if it has to come off.

I also bought a SLS hydraulic pump rebuild kit so will finally get onto that next as well.
3DB
1976 W123 300D (weekend warrior on biodiesel)
1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
(@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by mathuisella » Tue 17 Oct, 2017 2:45 am

I have an SLS pump here if you'd like it. I bought it from a wrecker on the gold coast for my 280ce i had.

I've not taken it apart, but it turns very nicely by hand, gives confidence that it's A-ok.

With the hose, I'd take the thermostat housing completely apart, taking the opportunity to get you some piece of mind in that you'll have cleaned off all the corrosion and give it a polish as well while you're there :D

Also, gives you a chance to clean up the 'lip' that the hose seals around, which is likely the cause of the leak.

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by tsharkey » Tue 17 Oct, 2017 9:37 am

Off with thermo housing. 3 bolts plus upper radiator hose. I have plenty of early style o-ring seals as the later use a thick rubber plate where as the new termostats often come with the early o-ring. I'll stick it in an envelope and send up if you want it.

Just note which way the thermostat sits when you pull apart !
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD 5 Speed Manual, to teach the kids how to drive
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Tue 17 Oct, 2017 2:28 pm

Thanks for the offers, gents.

Mathuisella - I'll keep the SLS pump in mind. I've already spent the $ on the rebuild kit, so will use it and see how I go.

Tim - I got the thermo housing off without actually removing the thermostat and hoses as shown in the photo. Looks like I will need a new gasket there though as the old one was hard and broke in two.

(note - if you click on the photos they will re-orientate to the right direction)
IMG_6399.JPG
IMG_6400.JPG
Also, the new steel line doesn't have the same bend in it so it was very tough to actually get a couple of threads in on each end. I haven't tightened it yet until I get some ruling from the brains trust on whether it is safe to torque it up. It almost looks as if there is a spacer missing in the top hole.
IMG_6401.JPG
IMG_6402.JPG
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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by Tony From West Oz » Tue 17 Oct, 2017 8:14 pm

The banjo bolts need new copper washers on both sides of the banjo to get a good seal.
The gap will easily be pulled in by the bolts once the thread has started properly.
You could put the top bolt in first and, with the pipe standing, give the pipe a slight bend towards the head. Re-orient the pipe to its final location and re-check the clearance.
Using a "centre punch" in the threaded hole and levering the banjo in the desired direction may also give the desired outcome.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:58 pm

Ok, the new coolant hard line is in. I got 2 new aluminium washers with the new part and had to use two old ones from the old part, but it appears to seal fine. I guess I should find a local supplier of those washers for the future.

I got a radiator hose from an ED Falcon V8 for about $7 that appeared to be the same diameter as the old one, which I now realise was a similar off-cut from something else. The fit wasn't what you'd call tight on the metal bits, but seems to be sealing ok now with clamps suitably tightened. The odd shape of the cast aluminium thermostat housing doesn't help the seal and I had one old hose clamp that was't up to the job. I'm guessing that was the problem in the past. We'll see how that goes.
IMG_6423.JPG
Anyway, it is overheating now. After several goes of filling the radiator to what I thought was full, bleeding air out of the top of the thermostat, starting the engine and watching the temperature climb to 100C at idle, I'm pretty confident that the cooling system is full....but I could be wrong. As it is parked, the fill point of the radiator is up quite high, but the thermo housing is still higher. I've made sure these are as full of coolant as possible and have now run the engine twice to 100C before shutting down. Prior to this work, temp never went above about 82C. The cabin heater is also stuck permanently on too by the way (makes driving ins summer a treat).
IMG_6424.JPG
Strange, seemingly unrelated, coincidental failures seem to abound for me lately and even though I can't think of a reason why the thermostat should have suddenly failed, is there anything else I should check before pulling that out and checking / replacing?

I think I inherited a spare somewhere. Is immersion in a pot of heating water to check opening temp a good measure?

If I have to replace, is it a Mercedes-only part, or will I be able to pick one up at Repco?
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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 2:11 pm

Is there a bleed hole in the outer ring of the thermostat?

There should be one, sometimes they have a little valve (a little rattly thing that looks like a navel piercing)

See here: http://asecertificationtraining.com/wp- ... -Level.jpg

If it has none, then drill a little hole yourself, 2 mm should do the trick.
It will bypass a little flow when engine is cold, but makes sure there is no airlock when the thermostat is closed.


Regards, Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by mathuisella » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:07 pm

thermostats at super cheap were ordered in at $85 :( much more expensive than the $20 counterparts for other cars...



Did you open the heatercores when refilling the cooling system ? also did you park on a hill so the car faces upwards enough so that the radiator cap is the highest point in the system ? even higher than the heatercores ?

Did you put the thermostat in the correct way ?

There should be a little arrow mark on the thermostat and a corresponding mark on the outer aluminium part where it sits, they need to be facing outwards and matched :) ( allignment and facing marks )

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Re: A few minor issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by tsharkey » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 10:37 pm

3DB wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:58 pm
Anyway, it is overheating now. After several goes of filling the radiator to what I thought was full, bleeding air out of the top of the thermostat, starting the engine and watching the temperature climb to 100C at idle, I'm pretty confident that the cooling system is full....but I could be wrong. As it is parked, the fill point of the radiator is up quite high, but the thermo housing is still higher. I've made sure these are as full of coolant as possible and have now run the engine twice to 100C before shutting down. Prior to this work, temp never went above about 82C. The cabin heater is also stuck permanently on too by the way (makes driving ins summer a treat).
Those thermostats can be fickle when drained sometimes they will fail. The one on the 230TE t'was working fine till we let it sit for a while, drained it and refilled ! Grrrhhhhh.
Bartman4800 wrote:
Mon 23 Oct, 2017 2:11 pm
If it has none, then drill a little hole yourself, 2 mm should do the trick.
Be careful of the hole technique - I drilled one and then the engine never really got above 60° in winter. Not good on a number of fronts.

Is the heater stuck on cause the cables are broke or the heater valves are shot.
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD 5 Speed Manual, to teach the kids how to drive
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

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Re: A few issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Thu 26 Oct, 2017 1:17 pm

Thanks, Bart - well diagnosed. There was air trapped under the thermostat. When I opened it up there was a big air space.

I took the thermostat out, filled it up and re-sealed it and it seems to be cooling fine now. I decided against drilling the hole to see if I could get it to work without and fingers crossed I've got it.

Tim - thanks for directing me to the heater valve - without that I might not have realised that it is leaking too. I have an old spare so will try that and see how it goes. It doesn't look in great shape and I guess there is no way to know whether it is any good without putting it in? I have filled it with water and left it sitting on the bench to see if if there are any obvious leaks from atmospheric pressure with cold water.
3DB
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Re: A few issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Thu 16 Nov, 2017 2:50 pm

Does anyone have any tips for safely removing the wire control cables from the actuators on heater valves?

I have 2 spares (one dud, one good) and both have had the cables cut with side cutters or similar.

The plastic looks brittle and I would hate to damage my one remaining part.
heater valve.jpg
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1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
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Re: A few issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by Bartman4800 » Thu 16 Nov, 2017 3:59 pm

a Dremel with a cutting blade...
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
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Re: A few issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by tsharkey » Thu 16 Nov, 2017 8:05 pm

3DB wrote:
Thu 16 Nov, 2017 2:50 pm
I have 2 spares (one dud, one good) and both have had the cables cut with side cutters or similar.

The plastic looks brittle and I would hate to damage my one remaining part.
I would love to know the answer myself (and thanks for not revealing that a certain member from down south left you with the challenge !)
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD 5 Speed Manual, to teach the kids how to drive
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

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Re: A few issues with coolant, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Fri 17 Nov, 2017 9:54 am

I don't currently own a Dremel but have been looking for an excuse to get one, so I will give it a go on the dud first.

And since the old one in the car is buggered, I can just cut the plastic.

Here goes....
3DB
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1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
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Re: A few issues with coolant / heater valve, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Fri 17 Nov, 2017 7:23 pm

The Dremel worked.

No significant damage to new heater valve. The old metal rod got a bit hot cutting and melted the plastic a bit, but nothing major.

I think the Dremel will be one of those tools you get and wonder how you did with out for so long!
3DB
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1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
(@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

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Re: A few issues with coolant / heater valve, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by Bartman4800 » Fri 17 Nov, 2017 9:01 pm

Glad it worked out great for you :laughing6:

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: A few issues with coolant / heater valve, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by tsharkey » Sat 18 Nov, 2017 8:39 am

And the next question ...... How do you press on the wire loops to the replacement .....
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD 5 Speed Manual, to teach the kids how to drive
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

User avatar
3DB
Maybach
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu 15 Oct, 2015 2:46 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: Sydney

Re: A few issues with coolant / heater valve, fuel tank & crankcase vent OM617

Post by 3DB » Sat 18 Nov, 2017 7:23 pm

It was surprisingly easy. Because the wire ends are a spring loop and the plastic is tapered, they just popped on with needle-nose pliers.
3DB
1976 W123 300D (weekend warrior on biodiesel)
1995 Holden Rodeo 2.8 factory turbo diesel ute (daily driver...also on biodiesel)
(@thirddegreeburns on Instagram)

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