Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

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mathuisella
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Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sat 09 Sep, 2017 12:57 am

So, i have a 1980 240D as well as a 1982 300d.

240D = interior and body need work, manual transmission ( older style motor )
300D = interior and body much better, automatic transmission


want to put the 240D's manual into the 300D.

Q1. Some people say it's a coin toss as to whether the flywheel is neutral balanced, or balanced to the crank.
Q2. Are the bolts to the flywheel the stretch kind, or just standard ?
Q3. With the manual in, can i just block off the Vacuum lines for everything except the doors ?
Q4. Do I need to get a brand new pilot bearing ?
Q5. Do I need to find a new gearbox seal ?
Q6. what oil to use in the manual ? 75W-80W mineral ?
Q7. where can i pickup a clutch allignment tool ? or borrow one ?
Q8. I suspect with the 300D being a bigger block, the 240'd existing driveline from the gearbox to the differential won't be a perfect swap in, so i'm likely to need a new driveline made up ?


I'm located in Brisbane if anyone's local to me and has any tips or perhaps a clutch allignment tool, pilot bearing or anything i may have forgotten :D :happy3:

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Tony From West Oz » Sat 09 Sep, 2017 1:48 am

My comments on the Vacuum lines and using the Auto trans on the 240D.
mathuisella wrote:
Sat 09 Sep, 2017 12:57 am
SNIP
Q1. Some people say it's a coin toss as to whether the flywheel is neutral balanced, or balanced to the crank.
Q2. Are the bolts to the flywheel the stretch kind, or just standard ?
Q3. With the manual in, can i just block off the Vacuum lines for everything except the doors ?
You only need to block off the vacuum line going to the vacuum modulator on the Auto Trans. The Vacuum control valve on the side of the IP will not fit the earlier IP though and you may need to solve some shifting issues with using the '80 tranny on the pre '80 engine. The vacuum shut off line from the key is still needed, as are the HVAC vacuum controls.
Q4. Do I need to get a brand new pilot bearing ?
Q5. Do I need to find a new gearbox seal ?
Q6. what oil to use in the manual ? 75W-80W mineral ?
I believe that the MB Manual transmissions use ATF as their lubricant.
Q7. where can i pickup a clutch alignment tool ? or borrow one ?
Q8. I suspect with the 300D being a bigger block, the 240'd existing driveline from the gearbox to the differential won't be a perfect swap in, so i'm likely to need a new driveline made up ?


I'm located in Brisbane if anyone's local to me and has any tips or perhaps a clutch alignment tool, pilot bearing or anything i may have forgotten :D :happy3:
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Lance » Sat 09 Sep, 2017 6:48 pm

mathuisella wrote:
Sat 09 Sep, 2017 12:57 am
Q1. Some people say it's a coin toss as to whether the flywheel is neutral balanced, or balanced to the crank.
This question comes up repeatedly, maybe the answer should be kept where everyone can find it.
Refer to instruction 03-440 in the W123 manual. The manual for the W123 is on the Star TekInfo website. Yes you can do it, Mercedes says you can. Just do it according to the manual.
mathuisella wrote:
Sat 09 Sep, 2017 12:57 am
Q2. Are the bolts to the flywheel the stretch kind, or just standard ?
Stretch kind, but refer to instruction 03-410 to learn how to check if they can be re-used or not. Though after this amount of time probably better to use new.
Regards,
Lance Smart

W114 280E 5 speed manual
W123 280E

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 10 Sep, 2017 2:23 am

Hi again, thank you for the replies.

I can't seem for the life of me work out how to find gearbox or flywheel stuff in that online manual thing..... It seems pretty umm how should i say, useless for me i can't seem to search via key words. I've looked in every section in both 240D and 300D and cannot find gearbox stuff anywhere.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Sun 10 Sep, 2017 12:29 pm

See the reference library section.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:10 pm

today i started the swap.

took 2.5 hours to get it all out. Just the pedals and shifter to go.
21584098_10212095811363346_443188831_o.jpg
21584423_10212095810603327_817348986_o.jpg
21616814_10212095802883134_1452744047_o.jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Mercmad » Mon 11 Sep, 2017 12:19 pm

if you are in Brisbane, take your diesel drive plate and the 240's flywheel to Chiltons engineering in Deshon St ,Woolloongabba . David Chilton will Match balance the flywheel to suit the 300D . Do not try and get away with simply bolting the two together because you WILL destroy the engine .
Yes you need a spigot bearing.
All mercedes manual trans use ATF Dexron III.
The back of the engine is in the same place , just use the 240's drive shaft etc. Take the front seat out , it's easier to get under the dash to fit the 240's pedal box . You need the master cylinder reservoir off the 240 because it has the nipple for the clutch master cylinder feed pipe. As for vacuum lines, you do not need the tranny line just the yellow line for the door locks and the other for the engine shut off .Welcome to the world of mercedes manual trans joy. Cheaper running, less worries about flaring gear shift, and longer brake pad life.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 11 Sep, 2017 4:21 pm

Mercmad wrote:
Mon 11 Sep, 2017 12:19 pm
if you are in Brisbane, take your diesel drive plate and the 240's flywheel to Chiltons engineering in Deshon St ,Woolloongabba . David Chilton will Match balance the flywheel to suit the 300D . Do not try and get away with simply bolting the two together because you WILL destroy the engine .
Yes you need a spigot bearing.
All mercedes manual trans use ATF Dexron III.
The back of the engine is in the same place , just use the 240's drive shaft etc. Take the front seat out , it's easier to get under the dash to fit the 240's pedal box . You need the master cylinder reservoir off the 240 because it has the nipple for the clutch master cylinder feed pipe. As for vacuum lines, you do not need the tranny line just the yellow line for the door locks and the other for the engine shut off .Welcome to the world of mercedes manual trans joy. Cheaper running, less worries about flaring gear shift, and longer brake pad life.
thank you :)

I was curious about balancing the flywheel and where to get it done. Hopefully not too much $$$ :)

I forgot to mark the driveshaft of the 240 as it came off the rubber flex discs. I was curious if i should replace the discs and the rear gearbox rubber mount ? they look all in good shape, no crack/splits or fragmenting, but i worry that they're too "stiff"

Also, the 12 flywheel bolts, are they alright to reuse ? they all have 0 corrosion and they don't look stretched.

I called Mercedes stealership and what they want for the flex discs and flywheel bolts i almost had a heart attack....

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Tue 12 Sep, 2017 2:29 pm

spoke to David at Chiltons engineering :)

Had a good conversation about what i need to do and we go from there once i get the automatic's transmission and it's "flywheel" out.

( i borrowed a friend of a friends jack that could raise the car up high enough, probably can't borrow it again for a couple of weeks )

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:34 pm

Flywheel bolts I would not reuse, they generally cannot take the torquing to the same figures after 30+ years. You may also find that they are different to the flexplate bolts. check the part numbers to be sure.

I would replace the rear main seal - it makes sense to do this when the flywheel is off the crank - you do not want to have to attend to a leaky rear main seal after you do the swap...

tailshaft couplings should be replaced. Otherwise you might end up with this:
DSC_3755.jpg
New transmission rear mount to gearbox crossmember (always).
New Pilot bearing for crankshaft (always - it's a common as muck $6 bearing...)
New throwout bearing for input shaft (always)
New clutch fork and pivot if there are any signs of wear on the slave cylinder rod contact area.
New front input shaft seal if there are any signs of leak or if the seal is hard.
new input shaft collar for the pivot fork if there is excessive wear.

new clutch slave (optional, but essentially wirth it, or get yours recon'd)
new clutch master (optional, same as above)

Optional new clutch disk and pressure plate (direct clutch in bowen hills can reline, with "proper" material.
Take your PP and clutch to them and seek their expert advice.

If you separated the propeller shaft at the middle, make sure the single dash mark near the nut on the front section intersects the twin mark on the rear section, on the splineyoke just behind the bearing hanger (see pic below double line marking on the shoulder of the yoke)
DSC_3772.jpg
replace the centre bearing and the hanger, as well as the boot on the front section. (new ones are corrugated) It comes as a kit - has the bearing, spacer and boot. the centre bearing hanger is separate part.
DSC_3779.jpg
Check the differential mounts to the subframe. good time to replace them, especially the rear one, but the fronts are harder to do, and you want your tailshaft angles to be spot-on or you'll get vibrations and you won't be able to tell if it's engine rpm or tailshaft phasing or angle / alignment.

If you pay attention to the details, you won't need to get under there again for a very very long time. That's what the end-game should be. Not having to get back under there for a very very very long time.
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Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Wed 13 Sep, 2017 12:05 am

Thank you :)

my searching skills i guess aren't as good, been looking online for parts and coming up empty handed and confused if things will fit, any chance you have a link to them ( please :) )

1982 300D Auto ( manual is going into this one )
1980 240D Manual ( doner car which has pre-1980 motor, one of the last in the stockpile i guess )

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Wed 13 Sep, 2017 1:22 pm

Centre bearing i found this kit, USA though https://mercedessource.com/store/123-ch ... erhaul-kit

Pilot/spigot bearing i found this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mercedes-w10 ... Swwn9ZeZdo

the flex discs for the tail/drive shaft are eluding me for Australian stock other than over $500 from the mercedes stealership :(

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Wed 13 Sep, 2017 3:59 pm

MB Spares/Forum sponser for your parts ...have you got a price from them yet ?

The USA prices are plus 20% exchange rate approx ..plus Shipping .
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Wed 13 Sep, 2017 4:31 pm

Gave MBspares a call not long after i made the last post. Asked about the Flex Discs and the Spigot/pilot bearing.

He can get the discs for me, just have to wait a little longer for funds as they're more expensive than the last time i got flex discs for my old 300d i had a while ago.


I ordered the Centre bearing kit from mercedes source as it has the complete kit there ready to go and with instructions so no fussing about :)

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Mercmad » Fri 15 Sep, 2017 10:21 am

I usually buy the parts direct from Mercedes, where I get a reasonable discount .I have never bought parts from mercedes source as he tends to be dearer than MB spares, autohaus arizona and so on. As for the bearing, I just go to the nearest bearing shop and buy one , it's a common part and not mercedes specific . The rubber parts are usually all i need to buy. The lex discs should be getting cheaper as a lot of GM products use exactly the same parts , corvettes,camaro, monaro etc etc. and all made by guibo . :laughing6:

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Fri 15 Sep, 2017 1:46 pm

That pilot bearing [SKF] you could probably buy in Aust for around $25 or less.
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Fri 15 Sep, 2017 2:38 pm

Mercmad wrote:
Fri 15 Sep, 2017 10:21 am
I usually buy the parts direct from Mercedes, where I get a reasonable discount .I have never bought parts from mercedes source as he tends to be dearer than MB spares, autohaus arizona and so on. As for the bearing, I just go to the nearest bearing shop and buy one , it's a common part and not mercedes specific . The rubber parts are usually all i need to buy. The lex discs should be getting cheaper as a lot of GM products use exactly the same parts , corvettes,camaro, monaro etc etc. and all made by guibo . :laughing6:
I wish, I found flex discs on ebay a set for $95 a year ago, today they're about $80 each from pretty much everywhere. Except the stealership who want a touch under $300 per flex disc :dontknow:

the bearing, Mercmad, you're in Brissy as well, may i ask which bearing place you've gone to before that has it ? I'm on the north side of brissy :)

I'm hopeful this weekend i get a chance to borrow the jack again and get the Auto transmisson out. :)

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Fri 15 Sep, 2017 4:51 pm

Qld Bearings Zillmere - will have it for sure
or any bearing place ...
Ph them with the part number.
A set of Flex dics at that price are likely to be poor quality...what brand were they ? Only buy Quality Flex discs - longevity and safety !
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Fri 15 Sep, 2017 5:19 pm

merc-304 wrote:
Fri 15 Sep, 2017 4:51 pm
Qld Bearings Zillmere - will have it for sure
or any bearing place ...
Ph them with the part number.
A set of Flex dics at that price are likely to be poor quality...what brand were they ? Only buy Quality Flex discs - longevity and safety !
Thank you.

I'll say hi to the bearing place on monday and grab the flex discs from our sponsor here as i'm sure he wouldn't sell something unsafe :)

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 7:34 pm

Okay update.

transmission bracket in the way
22050773_10212214600533001_1959262581_o.jpg
"

there we go
22015294_10212214601213018_1584175384_o.jpg
getting it off ( same again with the rear )
22016967_10212214600332996_691753158_o.jpg
got it off in 1 piece, red marks are mine.
22015420_10212214599812983_1093316595_o.jpg
vibration under accelleration, would it be caused by this ?
22016675_10212214598612953_2043561312_o.jpg
full view
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front flex disc left, rear flex disc right.
front is new. rear, not so much...
22068723_10212214598252944_51363375_o.jpg
Sockets to heaven... ( stairway to heaven ;) )
22015544_10212214598292945_299310989_o.jpg
and SNAP!!! :angryfire:
22015611_10212214596292895_614147993_o.jpg
oh, and the rear diff mount arrived today :D
22015434_10212214596332896_2086452511_o.jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 5:39 pm

Your centre bearing mount is shagged. - that means pulling the propshaft to pieces - so might be a good time to clean the whole shaft down, relube splines etc etc and new uni joint if you have the means, otherwise, use a greasegun and a needle fitting under the cup dust seals and get some EP in there, then tap each cap to re-align the cups and reseat the crosspin. Looks like your centre bearing is due for replacement too - especially if the hanger is as rooted as that pic shows.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 5:47 pm

Saw a wasp-like bug attacking a bee. Took a picture, the flash scared them and the bee escaped, YAY!

Also look at that awesome red colour :D
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Needed to take out glow plugs so i could crank the engine over by hand
22050385_10212221780592498_536926940_o.jpg
look at how useful these rathet swivel handed spanners are, invaluable, i would've had to take off the fuel lines otherwise.
22068626_10212221780672500_100012706_o.jpg
27mm socket needed for this bad boy. cranking over the engine by hand
22047497_10212221779152462_1775171466_o.jpg
Swivel headed ratched, also proved to be a great save today :)
22047368_10212221779072460_1435296379_o.jpg
The reason i needed to turn the engine over was to rotate the flex disc, 6 bolts to undo before i could take the gearbox out.
22016922_10212221778272440_1983498533_o.jpg
YAY! gearbox out
22050599_10212221774272340_1599261450_o.jpg

not even 5 minutes late, the new low provile high reaching jack i ordered came in :( Life right ?
22092729_10212221773072310_1927253265_o.jpg

Flexdisc and it's 12 bolts
22016894_10212221774232339_268138377_o.jpg

noting a factory marking... Think there may be another mark underneath the "washer/flange" part of the bolt for it to line up against ?
22070154_10212221776592398_831725640_o.jpg

Manual gearbox... How filthy is it...
22070528_10212221773032309_1209779972_o.jpg

After a wipe down and brush with the brass brush from bunnings to get all the loose stuff off i started with the 240V drill and 2 brass wheel attachments.
22016865_10212221770552247_921910075_o.jpg
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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 5:51 pm

After a complete brush down to get rid of the loose stuff and then starting the 240V wire wheel
22050629_10212221769152212_780183533_o.jpg
finished product
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22068628_10212221768592198_457822561_o.jpg
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cleaning the manual gearbox's rust off
22068776_10212221768192188_149671493_o.jpg
Coated in some clearcoat. i didn't have any black on hand.
22050511_10212221767632174_1590797041_o.jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 5:54 pm

AMG wrote:
Tue 26 Sep, 2017 5:39 pm
Your centre bearing mount is shagged. - that means pulling the propshaft to pieces - so might be a good time to clean the whole shaft down, relube splines etc etc and new uni joint if you have the means, otherwise, use a greasegun and a needle fitting under the cup dust seals and get some EP in there, then tap each cap to re-align the cups and reseat the crosspin. Looks like your centre bearing is due for replacement too - especially if the hanger is as rooted as that pic shows.
Thank you AMG. I called our forum Sponsor MBspares and ordered a flex disc to replace the bad one and a centre bearing + hanger + dust seal

unsure how to take the centre bearing apart and put the new one on just yet. I have a few days i guess before the new one arrives to do some reading.

Next step is to take the auto-tranmissions flex plate as well as the manual transmissions flywheel off the Chilton's engineering and get them matched and start the reassembly.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 6:18 pm

Did you end up getting a price on the new spigot bearing from a bearing place ?
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 6:34 pm

merc-304 wrote:
Tue 26 Sep, 2017 6:18 pm
Did you end up getting a price on the new spigot bearing from a bearing place ?
Ah yes, i did call them last week, just been really busy. I'll take a ride up there tomorrow, i think it was under $10 for it.

When i called i quoted parts from pelican parts that had the part number for bearings that fitted the 240D :) as it should be the same for the 300 ? but it's the 240D's flywheel and clutch that will go into the 300D.
pilot bearing for 240d.JPG
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 6:56 pm

Thats gd ..nice and cheap
The 4 bolt cover over the gearbox input shaft....take that off and give the shaft / splines a clean and a wipe down.
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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 7:21 pm

merc-304 wrote:
Tue 26 Sep, 2017 6:56 pm
Thats gd ..nice and cheap
The 4 bolt cover over the gearbox input shaft....take that off and give the shaft / splines a clean and a wipe down.
before i open the wrong ones, which set of 4 bolts did you mean ? :)

red, green or blue set ?

I'm leaning towards the green ? :)
colours.jpg
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merc-304
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Tue 26 Sep, 2017 7:35 pm

Green.
May be a paper gasket between case and shaft cover.
380 SEC

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Thu 28 Sep, 2017 7:09 pm

got the bearing, tomorrow is drop off time for the flywheel and flex plate to the machine shop for balancing

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AMG
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Thu 28 Sep, 2017 9:18 pm

:occasion5: :clock: :coffee2:

It'll be finished soon, and you'll be happy :happy3:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Fri 29 Sep, 2017 3:37 pm

AMG wrote:
Thu 28 Sep, 2017 9:18 pm
:occasion5: :clock: :coffee2:

It'll be finished soon, and you'll be happy :happy3:
:) thank you.

Hopefully it's all smoothe sailing. Didn't get to Chiltons today because it was just too damn hot to put the bike leathers on, monday :)

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 02 Oct, 2017 5:18 pm

well, today being a public holiday, didn't get to drop them off to the workshop, however i took the flex disc out :)


notice how the factory crank marking isn't lining up with the bolt hole or the flex disc mounting ?

I believe it was done with a chisel and the workman on the day had the chisel the wrong way around. Or the flex disc was 1/12th out of position...
22171836_10212266201542994_1583091657_o.jpg
22171886_10212266201422991_265134437_o.jpg
22171743_10212266201382990_1700543524_o.jpg
22217960_10212266201823001_1891213789_o.jpg
22217954_10212266201582995_2116615690_o.jpg
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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 4:24 pm

YAY!!!!!

I got the flywheel + flexplate back from Chiltons Enginering in 1 day :D

So, it turns out that t he flywheel as well as the flex plate are both neutrally balanced from factory

W123 240D - 1980 Manual - neutrally balanced
W123 300D - 1982 Automatic - neutrally balanced

today i also got the new flywheel bolts from mercedes :) 12 of them at $10 a pop.

Now it's time to start the reassembly process. Just need to read up on how much torque for the flywheel bolts.

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 08 Oct, 2017 8:02 pm

weekend update...

I'm missing a pedal

22368727_10212312842668993_1404797532_o.jpg
so i drain the brake fluid
22343781_10212312842788996_1928465023_o.jpg
Pull the pin
22343674_10212312843949025_207483520_o.jpg
that went into here
22345108_10212312844349035_1413960781_o.jpg
undo the 4 bolts
22343794_10212312842989001_591861043_o.jpg
manouvre and remove

22343648_10212312844669043_1279098163_o.jpg
drain the brake fluid in the doner car and start on the pedals

a little more difficule due to clutch and master cylinder and lines...
22345181_10212312843309009_494045442_o.jpg
success did not come easy...
22323699_10212312844789046_1343622028_o.jpg
quick mock up
22343735_10212312845709069_1625428332_o.jpg
however, to fit them i need to remove or manouvre half the innards of the dash...

22345184_10212312845269058_834647090_o.jpg
in w123's the clutch shares the same source of fluid, however at different levels so you'll lose clutch fluid before you lose brakes.

Here's the outlet is untapped from factory in the automatics.. I need to tap that.. I must have it mmm, Furry fool you are mine.... NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1VnfPhIa0
22323953_10212312845949075_1942976186_o.jpg
about to clean up the mess...
22403993_10212312846069078_946042507_o.jpg
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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 08 Oct, 2017 8:04 pm

under the brake booster/res there's always paint damage due to spills and seepage.

so i cleaned it up with a brush in prep for paint
22343571_10212312846149080_716272342_o.jpg
a bit of careful brush work
22343627_10212312846189081_1855569872_o.jpg
underside of brake booster
22343546_10212312881389961_846826115_o.jpg

and might as well do the drains whilst i'm there....
22343594_10212312846229082_1493802773_o.jpg
need to wait for it to dry before buttoning things up, however i'll spray over in the proper colour coded paint.

the black paint is anti corrosion stuff it settles like tar and dries by moisture, so any raid, water ect: will only make it more impervious.

Now it's time for a shower to get all this flaked out insulation, dirt and grit out from my hair
22343627_10212312846189081_1855569872_o.jpg
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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 6:11 pm

today's update.

Got a lot done...

Started off where i was waiting for paint to dry from last night...

22396529_10212321214438282_958530728_o.jpg
turned out pretty well
22375156_10212321213358255_768510333_o.jpg
even the drains, which didn't need to be done, but prevention is betetr than cure...
22375267_10212321213598261_620213685_o.jpg
22425719_10212321213718264_490001359_o.jpg
next was to get the brake booster installed again ( after painting it as well )

and then the pedals and connect the clutch master cylinder.
22345365_10212321210118174_1181455913_o.jpg
getting the pilot bearing in
make sure to always use the correct tool for the job. rubber mallet and appropriate sized socket, always hit the outer ring of the bearing, never the centre part or the plastic covers

27mm socket in this case.
22368723_10212321211038197_1780526501_o.jpg
for my gearbox, mercedes doesn't have available through their standard parts the rubber linkage dampeners...

so i made some of my own.
22375254_10212321212118224_223626360_o.jpg
22368990_10212321211998221_657060544_o.jpg
22345290_10212321211358205_1935866849_o.jpg
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Lance
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Lance » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:14 pm

How did you make them?
Regards,
Lance Smart

W114 280E 5 speed manual
W123 280E

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by brothermaynard » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 8:07 pm

Good read so far - love the amount of pictures.

Assuming the trans is a four speed manual? Is there a suitable five speed for the w123 300d out there?

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:51 pm

Lance wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:14 pm
How did you make them?
took measurements, used Adobe inventor to 3d design a part and printed them on my 3d printer :)

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:55 pm

So they are a solid/rigid piece ?
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 10:47 pm

merc-304 wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:55 pm
So they are a solid/rigid piece ?
there's 3d printer filament PETG which is a little squishy like rubber and you also have ninjaflex which is very flexible

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Tony From West Oz » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 10:53 pm

brothermaynard wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 8:07 pm
Good read so far - love the amount of pictures.

Assuming the trans is a four speed manual? Is there a suitable five speed for the w123 300d out there?
Yes, a 5 speed is the preferred conversion for a 300D, but a bit harder to come by.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 11:56 pm

brothermaynard wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 8:07 pm
Good read so far - love the amount of pictures.

Assuming the trans is a four speed manual? Is there a suitable five speed for the w123 300d out there?
Thank you. I try to take pictures of every step, however sometimes i'm in the midst of it and forget, or just don't have a third hand to take one.

with the W123 diesels, the gearbox you want is 717.400 , which is a 5 speed manual with the 5th being overdrive. However, it rediculously difficult to find and when you do, quite expensive and it may not even be in the best of conditions.

What i ave is a 4 speed. But it's better than nothing and will be a lot more fuel efficient without the "slushbox" efficiency loss. Not to mention more enjoyable to drive. and with a manual, as long as i keep the rust at bay, it'll do nothing but appreciate in value :) and when the time comes, i'll rebuild the engine and be good for another 30+ years, when everyone is driving around in their 200km range electric cars and some econobox's left, I'll keep on passing 25 years younger, however broken down cars nicely @ 110km/h as i do now.



I did some polishing today as well. So for you as you're enjoying the pictures :)




original sticker for valve adjustments
22368656_10212321209518159_7541400_o.jpg
valve cover "before"
22369068_10212321209358155_2004842381_o.jpg

first pass on half the oil cap
22345489_10212321209798166_1341027686_o.jpg

starting the 2nd pass on the inlet manifold
22375333_10212321209838167_1144834541_o.jpg


together....Oil cap polished
22375345_10212321209198151_453570706_o.jpg
and together
22396401_10212321208758140_169639232_o.jpg
and just buttoned it all up as the rain started....
22375642_10212321208518134_427327628_o.jpg
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merc-304
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Tue 10 Oct, 2017 7:53 am

mathuisella wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 10:47 pm
merc-304 wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:55 pm
So they are a solid/rigid piece ?
there's 3d printer filament PETG which is a little squishy like rubber and you also have ninjaflex which is very flexible
Just had a read up on the Ninjaflex.....thats cool stuff
380 SEC

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Tue 10 Oct, 2017 12:53 pm

merc-304 wrote:
Tue 10 Oct, 2017 7:53 am
mathuisella wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 10:47 pm
merc-304 wrote:
Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:55 pm
So they are a solid/rigid piece ?
there's 3d printer filament PETG which is a little squishy like rubber and you also have ninjaflex which is very flexible
Just had a read up on the Ninjaflex.....thats cool stuff
The ones i made yesturday are solid. More of a "test". The concept works, they will never slide out, but i do worry if the ninjaflex is too squishy and will work itself out of place during a spirited drive.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Fri 13 Oct, 2017 10:43 pm

OKay, a silly question... as i should've marked as i was taking apart...

on the gearbox which levers are 1st/2nd 3rd and 4th and reverse :( Does anyone know which is which ?


distant view
22070448_10212221768232189_1436194213_o.jpg

medium + dirty view as it dropped out of the car.
21557286_10212095807243243_17623423_o.jpg

close up
22345290_10212321211358205_1935866849_o.jpg
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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sat 14 Oct, 2017 10:06 pm

a small update....

Looking at the drivelines...

the 300D on the bottomn, 240D on the top

See the difference in lengths, where the 300D's engine has 1 extra cylinder and the gearbox is longer.

a strange thing though is the difference in the thickness. they seem to be a mix.

240D = thicker front half thinner back half
300D = thicker rear half thinner front half
22473670_10212358759296880_789050880_o.jpg

taking measurements = 27.5cm difference in drive shaft lengths

longer 240D
22522372_10212358759336881_2005350876_o.jpg
22494456_10212358759416883_1693721990_o.jpg
68cm front half

300D
22497048_10212358759616888_1680055443_o.jpg
40.5cm front half

gearbox

4 speed = 42.5cm length

22550926_10212358759776892_1197049701_o.jpg
automatic = 58cm
22497231_10212358759696890_81724494_o.jpg
approximately 16 cm difference between the gearbox lengths

now the 300D had a bigger engine with 1 extra cylinder... hmm... Seems that the 300D sits back approximately 11CM further than the 240D did, when considering 27cm difference in driveline length and 16cm difference in gearbox length.



speaking of the 240d's driveshaft... the centrebearing isn't massively split like the 300D's was...


240D
22546765_10212358655134276_899416130_o.jpg
will likely need a new dust seal cover though
22497184_10212358654454259_1702294199_o.jpg


300D

22494897_10212358654814268_590444683_o.jpg
the 300D was getting driveline vibration, i believe this is the cause, the split centre bearing rubber...
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Lance
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Lance » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 10:40 am

3-4 at front of gearbox, reverse in middle, 1-2 at rear. Though there are exceptions, but I think this applies to your gearbox. Need to know which box to be sure.
Regards,
Lance Smart

W114 280E 5 speed manual
W123 280E

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 12:26 pm

these are the numbers on it :)
22550690_10212364801447930_1205966928_o.jpg
22522224_10212364801607934_931264874_o.jpg
Reverse is the middle one, and i think 3/4 are towards the front and 1/2 is towards the rear, i was doing some testing and it seems that way :)

i got myself some flexible Filament for my 3d printer and made some Linkage rubber inserts.

same stuff as used in this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugPpqggay-w

Why does it have to rain, my friend was coming over today to help install the flywheel, clutch and gearbox
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