Building a pop tester- with pics

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julian
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Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by julian » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 8:30 pm

Hi everyone. I'm putting together a pop tester and want to get some hydraulic fittings.
Finding a 6mm compression fitting to accomodate a steel injector line is proving difficult. Does anyone know the injector line thread size? I am assuming that the pump and injector ends are the same size.

All I've got so far is the pump so any help would be grand.

Julian
Last edited by julian on Mon 13 Aug, 2012 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by MR300TD » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 8:37 pm

Not sure if you have seen this but it may help.

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/DieselInjectorTester
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 9:14 pm

I have seen that one, but thanks.
I'm going about it in a slightly different way. The bottle jack route is a great way of recycling an unused or unloved jack but I have neither of these, it also means pumping something with weld and JBweld up into the thousands of PSI. That sounds like crazy talk for a safety first kind of person like me.

I have a powerteam pump made in the USA, and want an outcome similar to this:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/gen ... ester.html
This guy uses a compression fitting which would work, but I prefer threaded fittings at this pressure.

So I need the part off the injection pump is the bit that the delivery valve sits in.

Anyone got a cactus injector pump they could donate this part for the cause?

All the other bits are pretty standard hydraulic parts.


Would still be keen to know the thread sizes though as it would make it easy to just buy the lot!

Julian
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 9:19 pm

Would it be the same size as the thread on the injector coupling?
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by MR300TD » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 9:26 pm

I am sorry I have no idea.

If it helps there is a 300D that is being parted out, speak to tony on this thread viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15177

Your pressure tester design looks good, please post how it goes. I am looking to either buy or build one myslelf one day.
1980 W123 300TD - Auto - 526000 kms and getting better everyday.. (AUS)
1985 w123 230TE - Auto - 486300 kms, Saved by Me (Aus) (now sold)

1985 W123 300TD - Auto - The one I had to leave behind... (Sold UK)
1983 W123 300TD - 5 Speed Manual + every extra under the sun ... (Sold UK)
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 9:31 pm

Car has been stripped and is gone.
I did get the injectors and lines but they are in rural SA, and I am in Sydney at the present. Heading there soon but my feet are getting itchy.

I'll post a parts list and a writeup once I begin putting the thing together.

In the meantime if anyone has the thread size- SPEAK UP!
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by yellowsub » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 9:48 pm

julian wrote: So I need the part off the injection pump is the bit that the delivery valve sits in.

Anyone got a cactus injector pump they could donate this part for the cause?

Julian
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 9:55 pm

yellowsub wrote:
julian wrote: So I need the part off the injection pump is the bit that the delivery valve sits in.

Anyone got a cactus injector pump they could donate this part for the cause?

Julian
Yes.
To both? :dance:
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by yellowsub » Wed 27 Jun, 2012 10:04 pm

Yep. Sent you a PM.
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An update

Post by julian » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 11:27 am

Okay, some drama.
The fittings are available from my preferred hydraulic supplier but in total they cost more than $140. I paid $100 for the pump and this makes it a very expensive tool when you can buy the testers on ebay for less than $200.
The problem is the threads are so very different.
The pump is 3/8" NPTF, but the fittings required go from NPTF on the pump, BSP for gauge, then metric 8mm via a JIC adaptor... :banghead:

Any hydraulics people would be welcome to weigh in here. If McMaster shipped to Australia I could solve this easily, as their range is amazing.
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Re: 300D thread size query

Post by Mercmad » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 5:44 pm

I have bosch injector tester which I've owned for ever but i like the idea of using a portopower ram.( i have one those laying about too) .What i dont like is the lack of a guage isolating valve. You can smash a guage when pumping injectors to test for pattern. You have to be able to pump up the injector to find the crack off pressure too. You can buy diesel injector test fluid and i would avise testing your injectors with it. It prevents corrosion damage to nozzles when injecotrs are packed away for use later.
Diesel attracts moisture ,especially todays low sulphur concoctions ,and it's this moisture which will destroy a nozzle over time.

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Gauges etc.

Post by julian » Sun 15 Jul, 2012 10:03 pm

Interesting point regarding the fluid, is diesel really that hygroscopic?
Regarding gauges:
All commmercial injector testors will have dry gauges, though I am suprised that yours cannot be isolated. These gauges are more precise than the glycerin filled gauges, as the best test is not simply to see what pressure the injector opens at. To test spray pattern you isolate the gauge as it is not necesary at this point and pump hard and quickly to observe the spray patterns. To observe pressure values the handle is pumped slowly with the valve open to gently increase pressure to the injector and observe the break/pop and a sudden and rapid fall in pressure. This rapid fall tells you a lot about the behaviour of the pintle in the nozzle as a sticking pintle may not sharply drop off to the same repeatable pressure with every break, and the break pressure may not be even for each test. A glycerin gauge will tell you the break pressure albeit not as precisely but tells you nothing about the behaviour of the pintle.
Glycerin gauges are much harder to damage as they don't fluctuate as wildly due to the resistance of the glycerin internally and do not generally require a valve to isolate them.
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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by Mercmad » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 8:01 am

Hi, I was actually meaning the portopower tester . I dont know why he doesn't install a tap in the line .
I lost count of the number of injectors Idid as an apprentice but by that time the hand operated testers were a thing of the past . We used a pressure operated machine which aimed the spray into a chamber which was back lit and this made it 100 times easier to check injectors. We would test each one then write them up , overhaul them in batches and then retest with further write ups. They would be packed for storage or returned to which ever workshop dropped them in.
I note it's normal now for folks to simply dump their nozzles and replace them. We would spend houres checking pintles for wear and it would be rare for nozzles to be dumped. It was often just a matter of repolishing them.
my tester is a Bosch unit which will also do petrol injectors for MFi and Cis.

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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 5:23 pm

You are dealing with a much more refined bit of equipment than my mish mash. I will try a few other hydraulic parts suppliers and post up when I have something new to tell.
Cheers!
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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by yellowsub » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 8:24 pm

This ( :wall: ) is why I ended up just buying one from Mercedessource :happy3:
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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 9:16 pm

I haven't given up yet. Hold tight everyone, I don't think it should take too long to find the right bits.
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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by Mercmad » Mon 16 Jul, 2012 10:00 pm

poking around in the crap pile here i found (remembered) something. MFi petrol injection systems on 220SE,W112 300SE,2.5 and 2.8 MFI all have the same size injection fittings as the injecotrs on OM625 and OM 617 engines .
which bits do you need?
Some of the injectionm pipes i have here are blocked (effing mud wasps!!) but shorter sections to make a pop tester could be retrieved from one .
here is a good link with all various sizes of injection lines.
http://www.turbodiesel.com.sg/UploadedI ... EPS100.pdf

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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Tue 17 Jul, 2012 9:36 am

It is more a case of using the fittings to turn a 3/8" outlet in NPTF thread into a BSPP tee to accommodate a gauge and then convert the third outlet of the tee into a metric M18x1.5 to connect to the delivery valve holder pictured in an earlier post. This then allows connection of the standard Mercedes injection lines and from there it is only a matter of screwing on the injecttor.

I need:
3/8 NPT male to 3/8 BSPP male
3/8 BSPP FxFxF Tee
3/8 BSPP male to M18x1.5 female

They are available from a few suppliers but the adaptors that convert between systems seem to be the most expensive. Once I find a supplier that can do all the parts for a reasonable price then everyone here will know.
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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by Mercmad » Wed 18 Jul, 2012 12:49 pm

i use these guys for everything i need.
http://www.ifsaus.com.au/
They make the fittings on site and can supply practially anything to fit anything.

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Re: Building a pop tester- 300D thread size query

Post by julian » Wed 18 Jul, 2012 9:40 pm

Haven't seen them. I'll try if the current supply options fall through. Cheers!
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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by julian » Mon 13 Aug, 2012 4:45 pm

Thanks for all who have provided advice and for yellowsub for his delivery valve holder.
Adaptors for various threads arrived today, and the big 100mm gauge arrived last week.

Loose fit shown below to ensure threads are all good, and they are. I'll be 'wet' testing it soon once I start rebuilding my injectors!
I haven't found a good (value) valve that can deal with the pressures yet, until then it is going to be gently used... If you have one (3/8bspp) speak up!
If anyone wants information about sourcing bits for such a project then just ask!
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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by Mercmad » Mon 13 Aug, 2012 7:16 pm

A little off topic, i found a guage in my stuff which is 100 OD and reads to 10,000 PSI and 25 tons pressure ....New and used . made in the USA, god only knows what for though. :laughing6: :laughing6:

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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by julian » Sun 09 Sep, 2012 6:20 pm

What is the most efficient test oil?
-Diesel at $1.50/L
-Veg oil at $2/L
-Specified test oil at ?$/L

Veg oil might not give a great indication of spray patterns unless it was a bit warm, diesel would be okay but I am not sure about the seals in the pump.
The pump moves 2.6mL per stroke.

Opinion?
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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by tsharkey » Sun 09 Sep, 2012 7:26 pm

julian wrote:What is the most efficient test oil?
-Diesel at $1.50/L
-Veg oil at $2/L
-Specified test oil at ?$/L

Veg oil might not give a great indication of spray patterns unless it was a bit warm, diesel would be okay but I am not sure about the seals in the pump.
The pump moves 2.6mL per stroke.

Opinion?
Won't the seals in the pump be an issue regardless or Test Oil or Diesel ?

I use Diesel rather than my BioD as I can't vouch for there not being impurities in the home brew and want to get a good view of the spray.
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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by Mercmad » Sun 09 Sep, 2012 7:39 pm

We always used test oil because diesel will atract moisture which will destroy pumps and injecotrs waiting for use on the shelf.
If you are just doing up injectors to use straight away,then use diesel. Also the bet testers always had a Filter mounted on them to keep things as clean as possible. i was at my local Bosch specilaist last week with a client who couldn't get over the hospital like workshops. When dealing with Diesel gear,cleanliness is next to happiness in operation.
Pop tester.jpg
C.A.V tester with built in filter..sold at Greys online for $69 ..... :cussing:
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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by julian » Sun 09 Sep, 2012 8:22 pm

Injectors will be going straight on to the engine so as far the hygroscopic nature of the test fluid goes the only worry is the pump- and that is sealed so I should be okay.

Ron- $69! I hope you were the one who bought it because mine is easily worth double that to me.

Damn.
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Got guilty about the gauge

Post by julian » Wed 03 Oct, 2012 2:36 pm

Feeling a little bit like i don't want to smash an expensive gauge, I bought a little brass valve.
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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by Mercmad » Wed 03 Oct, 2012 8:40 pm

re the Greys on line sale. No i missed out completely and only spotted it after the sale :cussing: . It was a complete Fuel room at Ultimo TaFE that was closed down . Damned shame they shut these places down as they are never going to be replaced. A mate was after the bosch test bench but it went to some bloke who is setting up a diesel museum somewhere.

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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by twinspinna » Thu 04 Oct, 2012 3:08 pm

3500psi gauge with brass tap? now thats sketchy.as for the adaptors i work for a hydraulic hose company and there is a mob called "fluid connectors" in perth. they have the best range of adaptors (for future reference). thats where we go anyways.

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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by julian » Mon 29 Oct, 2012 9:38 am

Hey twinspnna, are you worried about the pressure through the brass tap being too high?
I enjoy the integrity of my eyes and skin so speak more if you will.
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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 12 Mar, 2013 7:15 pm

As an engineer who works with hydraulics on a regular basis, I will have to put a word of caution in:

Although you are "only" using 150 bar (modern hydraulics goes to 700 bar/10.000 psi or even to 50.000 if you have specific stuff) you should only use pressure rated fittings!!!!

If you have a case of fluid injection through the skin (which is not unlikely, and very very scary) you will probably not make it to the hospital on time. Look here: http://www.fluidpowersafety.com/fpsi_dirnotes4.html
Image

As twinspanna posted here before: go to a reputable hydraulics components company (HSS in Henderson, Trident in Malaga, etc.) and get the pressure rated lines and fittings and stop mucking about with brass and other dodgy connectors.
And teflon tape is also not the right stuff you want to use for your connectors, it could end up in your injector...

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Re: Building a pop tester- with pics

Post by 300Dman » Sat 23 Mar, 2013 5:35 pm

Concerning the Teflon Pipe Tape.
They had to ban the use of it in the Diesel Shop I worked in in a Naval Ship Yard because they could not get People to use it properly.

If you wrap the Teflon Pipe Tape so that it us back away from and leaving the first 2 threads on the Male end of the Fitting bare when you install the fitting there will be no little pieces of the Teflon Tape to break off.

They switched to using a liquid rubbery type product called Vibra-tite which works great but is expensive and can also dry up in the bottle after a few years.

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