"Tomorrow's World" yesterday

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OzBenzHead
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"Tomorrow's World" yesterday

Post by OzBenzHead » Thu 06 Dec, 2018 10:53 pm

Tomorrow’s World: Cassette-based navigation, 1971 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KliWHCzE16c
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose: the risk of driving into the lake was still there, even back then.
OzBenzHead
Currently owned:
1965 W112 300 SE/C
1983 C126 380 SEC

and formerly:
1955 W180 220a
1965 W111 220 S
1970 W108 280 SE (my first Benz)
1973 W116 280 SE Crayford Estate (previously owned by Rolf Harris)
1980 W116 280 SE
1989 W124 300 E
1992 W201 180 E
1992 W201 190 E 2.0
+ numerous W108 and W116 rolling spares

and prior to my M-B enlightenment:
53 other cars of many nations, but mostly British oil-leakers (including 14 Rovers of the 50s and 60s) cursed by Lucas the Prince of Darkness. First car owned (at age 13): 1953 Fiat. Learned to drive in: 1927 Nash utility paddock-basher & Grey Fergie tractor. Driven distance (logged as at 30 June 2016): 4.6 million km.

CraigB
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Re: "Tomorrow's World" yesterday

Post by CraigB » Fri 07 Dec, 2018 7:44 pm

Thanks for sharing that. I think its the human nature side of things - there is a problem and the lengths they have gone to, to try and find a solution. I mean how many hours to map out all those options, timing it, setting it all up, testing etc and they are realistic enough to realise its just hire companies etc gonna buy it - never gonna make them rich. I don't know when GPS became a 'thought' - I know i did surveying in the early 80's and the Uni had a unit that had something like a 30m mast that you had to tie down and then wait something like 24 to 48 hours to get enough passes to get a location, but it was this quantum leap where you work out where you are from basically nothing....not doing closures and tieing into other known points. We would joke that one day we would have watches on our arms that would do it and i remember thinking if you could time travel and meet up with Goyder in some remote location and show him your watch.
And i know there are people on here who won't agree with this, and i don't say it to inflame or annoy or disrespect, - so just my personal thoughts but I do worry about all that extra carbon in our atmosphere (argue whatever but there are a lot of old dinosaurs that were tied up in the earth that we have released) or even just measured changes (i'm an ecologist so those sort of complex impacts concern me ) and i think our consumption is a big contributor but if we don't consume then economies can collapse..... so I don't know the answers and i prefer to not argue about such things or think ill of others..... but getting to the point - I wish we had minds that were as motivated as these guys were to find solutions - it had to be the challenge that kept them going. Most people are motivated by money, I waste most of my life running around in circles trying to save threatened species but deep down I know the reality is i am shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic but the guys that did that cassette seem like they were just motivated by the problem, not like they were going to sell it to heaps of people etc. ...... we need more of that I reckon..... anyway, enough rambling - hope i didn't upset anyone!
Craig Baulderstone
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T-Modell
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Re: "Tomorrow's World" yesterday

Post by T-Modell » Fri 07 Dec, 2018 9:02 pm

Great, thanks! As I was always sort of a tech nerd, I followed that GPS development for cars in the 90s. In January 1999 my S210 E320 was delivered and I spent around 3,000 Deutschmarks for 2nd generation GPS; radio format and arrows, not all roads on the CD. But it was breathtaking!

In those days, when there was a traffic jam, I was one of the few to find an easy way around. These days, everyone having the same system, all others follow the same way and it's stuffed in no time.

So actually we revert back to human brain orientation and experience skills. If you know the area and the tricks, you're better than the GPS rest. Especially the younger generation, who cannot even read a map and need the GPS to find out of the garage :laughing6:

Thomas
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1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

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Re: "Tomorrow's World" yesterday

Post by AMG » Sun 09 Dec, 2018 9:28 am

T-Modell wrote:
Fri 07 Dec, 2018 9:02 pm
...So actually we revert back to human brain orientation and experience skills. If you know the area and the tricks, you're better than the GPS rest. Especially the younger generation, who cannot even read a map and need the GPS to find out of the garage :laughing6:

Thomas
126-2700_IMG_1024x768.JPG
Oh So true!
There is an absolute truth to being familiar with your surroundings, in this example / instance it provides you not necessarily with 'more' options, but it provides you with the clear differentiator to be able to interpret which of those options is 'the best' based on the factors you can see.... traffic flow, speed, other vehicles deviation etc.
You make the calculation in your head without giving it any serious mental computation, because you already know all of the routing options and have the advantage of familiarity and possibly decades of trending, stored away in your brain matter, which you can access quicker than a GPS.
No GPS can defeat human instinct - yet. (you wait though... 'they' will try to 'control' it with GPS - this is literally an AI conditioning stage in the evolution of mankind, only a fool would refuse to acknowledge how the human race willingly submits themselves to rely on AI tech. 'without thinking' or 'convenient' are the superlatives used. )

I'm unsure why, but I learned to read and understand topo maps when I was about 8 or 9 and enjoyed the curiosity of a map. It followed that I had some decent success in orienteering when I was young, winning multiple state championships etc.
Naturally it follows that it totally puzzles me how / why someone could not understand or possess the skillset of map-reading in this day and age, when we have google maps on our phones and satellite overlays / multiple GIS data overlays in our vehicles- essentially what the cartographers produced on paper in "the colouring-in pencil set" days.
Literally, it's digital convenience spoon feeding you every last detail, right down to the distance to the next fuel station and how to get there on foot , as well as the time it will take to walk if you happen to run out of fuel while trying to drive there!...

It's funny that in early adulthood I too ended up in surveying for some years, spending many a day under the blazing qld sun without sunscreen (because back in the day you didn't have OH&S) and traversing the countryside, and the next week, setting out footings for a highrise.
But the advancements in technology, were pretty amazing in my time.... from a Wild t1A inverted image theodolite only accurate to 20", and an AGA distance measurement device strapped to the top of it on a chassis, to the earliest of 1-man totalstations (geodimeter) which followed you around and could measure to 5ppm in 2 seconds, to the Trimble GPS units which became 'mandatory' for those super-accurate long rural datums. Eventually those GPS based units were used to improve and build the rural / outback 'development' roads, and the national highway routes, as well as the large rural parcel LONG fencelines.

These days, rural fencelines can literally be built at some ridiculous speed, up to 7km per day, from bare soil to fully fenced - based on GPS technology, affixed to modern fully automated fencing machinery. No more splitting posts with axes, drilling holes with an auger or digging. It's all mechanised.

Clearly the philosophy of 'Tomorrows world' still applies in certain applications, but it is also equally visible that we have regressed in other areas... Aeronautical engineering is a great example, where politics prevents science propelling mankind forward.

As it has also been in the petroleum industry, with corporate greed overtaking fuel evolution (synthesis and alternatives) and overpowering science (again) which has subsequently stymied the evolution of internal combustion engines and efficiency. While there are fringe-engineering projects always making advancements based on existing fuel tech, or as a side-example, the R&D for alternative fuels (mazda's hydrogen vehicle research from 3 decades ago immediately comes to mind) The vehicle manufacturers all have 'science' to advance, but the fuel companies bring them to heel with the products being supplied.

The sooner people actually wake up to the fact that big coporations prevent advancement in technology the better off we all will be.

No, Tesla is not your answer here. It's far broader than that - but hopefully the next 3 or 4 generations of young minds will be independent thinking enough to collapse big corporate regression and get us back on the path of technical evolution.
</rant>
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: "Tomorrow's World" yesterday

Post by CraigB » Sun 09 Dec, 2018 10:49 am

I know this will sound like slipping into a conspiracy theorism rant... But I really agree with these points. I actually enjoy thinking but I feel like the trend is to enjoy letting anything else think for you - a trend that you can imagine elected people like and if we believe at least some of our elected people are motivated money and big business you can see the link - but i balance that by saying that big business employ people and on the whole people like to have jobs and be able to pay for things.... like food! But i do feel like the balance of control has swung heavily and if you look through history I think there is danger when widespread control of thinking occurs. And there is a balance on the thinking thing - I remember doing contour plans and I enjoyed learning to chain with a weight scale and adjusting for slope and sag and temperature and all that and all the calcs, but then there was a special feeling of wonder in my final year and just getting a total stations unit - just run around making enough recordings and out of the printer comes a complex contour plan. I remember when my very young son had something that we thought could have had been his first asthma attack and having to wait an especially long time for an ambulance. When the young crew got here they had been lost. There is an unmade road that GPS units don't realise isn't there and they had to try and figure it out - one of them said 'in the end we had to get the street directory out'. Not having a go at them and i don't know exactly how much time was tied up, but more the point that if I had that happen, in a situation of that urgency, my first instinct would be to grab a map and orient myself... what hills can i see, shapes of roads that might suggest where bends are following a climb etc - looking for all those things that the 'computer' in my head can anlyse in an instant, but felt like they were stuck on the 'computer says no' bit for a while and after that they were not well practised using maps.

I better head to the shed... but the point about control over development - i have a microbiologist mate in the university system for a long time and important cancer research overseas - and within the drug industry that sort of control where money once would go more to the independent thinking for developments in the university system drying up and then held tightly by the drug companies - competing not collaborating - controlling advancement etc. So does our advancement lie with focus on independent thinking and research - how can we support that rather than letting big business control us? How do we support independence? I know with environment funding its our taxes that go to Canberra and pay large numbers in the environment department that try and set one set of rules for the whole country and then all these volunteers across the country put huge resources into trying to apply for grants, using words to make it sound like what the feds want, then all the financial processes and reporting and finally out the other end a small percentage of what could be done gets done...... and is often just a one year grant and without follow up is a complete waste of time. Before i had my stroke (and when i get my head straighter might get back there) I was in the process of seeking long term private funding to set up a team (of 3.5) that would work a large area defined by known threatened species populations, known outcomes (ie. investment returns) based on experience, collaboration with private and public land etc., follow up efficiency based on familiarity of land and landholders etc..... I am convinced based on a number of past project that there are multiples of efficiency over the current system by cutting out that govt cycle. So in a way thinking of govt like a big business - make a choice to promote the independent thinking.... enough rambling... go do something useful! Its just you read words that you connect with and its a trigger.
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: "Tomorrow's World" yesterday

Post by T-Modell » Sun 09 Dec, 2018 7:22 pm

AMG wrote:
Sun 09 Dec, 2018 9:28 am
...
Naturally it follows that it totally puzzles me how / why someone could not understand or possess the skillset of map-reading in this day and age...
But Joe,
you also have to think about the other 50-52% of human mankind :laughing6: ... In my family of 5 adults, 80% fit that stereotype and I'm the only male ... so it must be true :occasion5:

As we're doing lot's of tours with the SL and W111, I have a 10+ year experience of trying to explain to my wife, how to read a map and get us where we want to. I do have achieved something. However, still a huge Michelin map has to be turned into the right direction (car direction matches map direction), but we're getting there. :laughing6:

That's one reason, why there's a setting in GPS units, where the North is not fixed to the top of the screen, but the map rotates like the car :laughing6: ... I call it the woman's setting.

Not politically correct, I know ... but women can have their fun too with us ...
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

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OzBenzHead
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Re: "Tomorrow's World" yesterday

Post by OzBenzHead » Mon 10 Dec, 2018 11:44 am

Well, that set off an interesting discussion, eh! LOL

On the topic of letting machines "think" for us, I've always thought that traffic lights (you know, red / amber / green) turn drivers into mindless morons; the truth to that is amply demonstrated by city drivers when the electricity for the lights fails – they can't figure out who goes next. Similarly, when lights-dependent city drivers come to towns that have no traffic lights they tend to sit at intersections trying to figure out their next move. D'oh!

Yes, I use satnav when in an unknown place, but most times I don't light it up. In the 70s I used to be a Melbourne cabby (SilverTop, radio call-sign of Gay-6-9 – I kid you not!) and could find my way around quite readily with my Melways book of maps combined with intuition and an inborn sense of north / up.
OzBenzHead
Currently owned:
1965 W112 300 SE/C
1983 C126 380 SEC

and formerly:
1955 W180 220a
1965 W111 220 S
1970 W108 280 SE (my first Benz)
1973 W116 280 SE Crayford Estate (previously owned by Rolf Harris)
1980 W116 280 SE
1989 W124 300 E
1992 W201 180 E
1992 W201 190 E 2.0
+ numerous W108 and W116 rolling spares

and prior to my M-B enlightenment:
53 other cars of many nations, but mostly British oil-leakers (including 14 Rovers of the 50s and 60s) cursed by Lucas the Prince of Darkness. First car owned (at age 13): 1953 Fiat. Learned to drive in: 1927 Nash utility paddock-basher & Grey Fergie tractor. Driven distance (logged as at 30 June 2016): 4.6 million km.

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