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C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:31 am
by piperjon
Hi Guy's.

Some time the engine runs a bit rough. Also will back fire. Then run well until the next time which can be 2 days. The car is driven to work 5 days a week and about 90K's each day. As I said some time it will do it and the time no.

I was thinking it maybe a fuel pump problem.

If any of you guy's have had the problem with a C180 W202 1997 please let me know.

Cheers
John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:52 am
by Ivanerrol
Check your cat with a laser style temp gauge.
Don't use ethanol.

Is the engine running rough just at idle or while driving?

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:15 am
by piperjon
Hi,

We only use 98 fuel and it runs rough while driving. But not all the time can be 2 or 3 days before we have this problem. The wife tells me when going up a hill and some times when cold. But again not all the time!!
Cheers
John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sat 11 Nov, 2017 7:57 pm
by Ivanerrol
Time to have the coils and coil leads checked out. Probably plugs.
You probably need new ones
Get ready for the dollar pain.

Only use OEM or original MB stuff.

Don't buy that erzatz ebay crap.

There are codes that can be read on your car to diagnose issues. The scanner required for this will only be available at a stealership or recommended independent MB specialist who will have the appropriate expensive unit.

Fuel issues "generally" don't cause your problems - potentially more ignition related.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 12 Nov, 2017 9:30 am
by piperjon
Hi,

I don't think it is the coils or spark plugs The plugs had been changed late last year. My wife told me that it started after she got $20 of fuel for enough servo That is why I am thinking it is a fuel problem. So I will change the fuel filter and let some fuel run into a container and see if it picked up any water in the fuel.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 15 Nov, 2017 11:13 pm
by Ivanerrol
A combination of a low voltage older battery and an old fuel pump will cause starting and running difficulties - particularly in cold weather.

My C200 fuel pump eventually failed - caused by lacquer in the pump.
I couldn't believe the difference in the car after replacing the pump. The pump was iffey from the day I bought it - I just didn't realise it.

The pump and filter are important links in the overall performance of the car. A poor battery struggles with poor pumps and filters.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Thu 16 Nov, 2017 12:08 pm
by piperjon
Hello Again Ivanerrol,

I was going to contact M B spares and buy a pump and fuel filter. But decided to try 4 new spark plug first. About 6pm I added then in and My wife rang me to say so far the Mercedes ran ok. Reason for changing the plugs was a fare while ago I did have trouble with a Ford and added new plugs and about 1 and a half months later I had to change them again. That is after checking this and that. So after your info I decided to try the plugs first. That doesn't mean it was the plugs until I'de say 1 or 2 more days. If it is running ok then it was the plugs. But they were put in November last year. The old plugs I took out did all look ok. But you never know. So I will come back and let you know the out come.
A new battery was added to this Mercedes in March this year. But I think a fuel filter should be changed and that will come from M B spares.
Cheers
john

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 2:51 pm
by Jeremy
Reiterating what Ivanerrol said before, I'd be looking at the coils. My dads c240 got to the point it was undriveable it ran so rough. Chased our tails over fuel pump, filter, injectors, MAF sensor, plugs, none of it helped. The coils go bad and they're not cheap so if you can work out which one by removing plug leads until one doesn't affect the rough running that should give you an indicator, or replace them all if you can afford it. Good luck

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 3:18 pm
by piperjon
Hi,

Because I have 2 1997 C180's. one is built Fed 1997 and is a auto. Mine was built in New 1997 and 5 speed manual and the inside has been changed. So with the two I have changed parts over like coils, air meter. I cleaned the throttle housing which I didn't have to do but I did that on mine. Mine has a problem that doesn't show what the problem is even at Mercedes. All I did was pay a lot of money for nothing.

But my wife car I will change the spark plugs on Tuesday making sure they are the right ones as they should be in by that time (I hope). If it doesn't fix then it's a fuel pump and filter from M B.
Cheers
John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 3:23 pm
by piperjon
I forgot to say the plugs I changed over only had 1 electrode and the ones I removed has 3. So I had to reorder the right ones.
John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 6:22 pm
by Ivanerrol
The m112 C240's are different beasties to the 4 cylinder M111.
For a start the m112's have 12 spark plugs - iridiums $$$$$$$$
M112 6 cylinder engines run one coil pack per cylinder firing two spark plugs.
You need a special tool to get the plugs out.
Diagnosis by OBD port. Coils can fail individually. It's no sense replacing all coils when only one is faulty that's why a OBD diagnosis is essential.

The M111's must have the correct plugs to run right. Throw those three prongs things away.
Resistive platinum's are good for the second series HFM M111's between 1996 and 2000. If they are too expensive for you then plain old NGK BPR6EFS.
The coils do play up. The rubbers at the end of the plug ends must be sound. Oil in the bottom of the plug holes should be cleaned out.
The M111 has two coils - each coil fires two cylinders. If a coil is Kaput then the engine will really run like Shite
Check the leads before you reinstall the plugs. There is a resistance value on the leads - check this with a multimeter to make sure no leads have gone bad.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 6:50 pm
by piperjon
Hi,
The spark plugs I have ordered are BKURSET-10 (7553) are these the wrong plug?????????
John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 9:46 pm
by Ivanerrol
piperjon wrote:
Sun 19 Nov, 2017 6:50 pm
Hi,
The spark plugs I have ordered are BKURSET-10 (7553) are these the wrong plug?????????
John
They are the technically incorrect plugs. They are for Kompressor engines
However having said that they will probably work. The question is for how long efficiently.
Experience has shown that fancy plugs in non designed for engines have a habit of working fine for 10 - 20,000K's and then rough idle or some other issue crops up.
The original plugs are all of $5.00 each at StooperCheep. On line there even less.
There's the BCP's or NGK BKR6E's or Champion C11YCC-17's or Bosch FR8DC

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 11:10 pm
by piperjon
Hi,
You seam to know a far bit about these C180's. I just checked the the boxes the new plugs came in and they are the NGK BKR6E. So that is why the car is running ok. But I wasn't going to sat any thing until I got the other plugs I ordered. They cost me $22 from SCA's.
I'll ring them to morrow and cancel that order.
thanks
john

PS.
My C180. here is what it is doing. I took it down to Wollongong to the Mercedes repair Star motors I think it was. Anyway They put the Diagnosis by OBD port but never told me what was wrong. But he said they changed the cam sensor and said it was fixed. Now what it was doing was driving up a hill where you held the revs at say 3,000 you could feel the car go a little faster and then slow down and up again and down again. So I asked him that is what it was. They had put in a second hand unit not a new one which cost me $40. When I drove back home I did feel it had improved a lot but still there. Mercedes here wanted over $600 for the cam sensor. So seeing me brother in-law was going to Germany he got a new sensor for me\. but it is still the same. Diagnosis was checked again but found nothing. So what do you think it is.
John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 11:15 am
by piperjon
ok looks like I am stuck with this problem. Going up a hill and fathering the throttle it seam to power up slitty and them back to drag which it feels like up and down the revs go and you find the car has picked up speed as this is going on.

No one seams to know what it is. They have said it's in the throttle body and needs a clean. That has been done now cam sensor from Germany added. Still the same.
it was tested and coils are ok and the leads checked are also ok. I can tell you that going up a hill and put your fool down you can feel the drag. Just like the gear is to high. It will pull away after a while or back down to a lower gear which is to low but that's were you got to kept the throttle in the best place not to let it rev to high.
:banghead:

John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 11:42 am
by Ivanerrol
Had your Cat checked yet?

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 11:56 am
by piperjon
sorry but what is a CAT??

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 12:11 pm
by merc-304
Catalyctic convertor

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 1:16 pm
by piperjon
Hi,

Yes when it was down in Wollongong at the Mercedes repair place.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 1:17 pm
by piperjon
I can check if they did or not.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 9:31 pm
by stefcep
So you've changed plugs, changed catalytic converted, changed CPS. Its a 1997 so the wiring harness should not be an issue.

I doubt its the leads- bad leads in my experience give a tough idle.

My money ie your money is on the MAF sensor. These last 80-100k kms

Shop around for the MAF sensor- and get the Bosch. I get new one for the C200 now sold for about $165 off an ebay seller in the US. Alternatively wreckers did have them for about $70 if you want to see that it fixes the problem before spending more money.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Wed 22 Nov, 2017 9:34 pm
by stefcep
oh and the coils.

In my case it was all of coils, leads, plugs, and MAF sensor.

And changed the oxygen sensor because I thought it needed it at 160k kms

Re: C180 November 1997 engine problems?

Posted: Thu 23 Nov, 2017 5:59 pm
by piperjon
You see I am lucky as I have 2 Mercedes 1997 C180 W202 and have changed over coils, leads. I also changed over the air mass meter. once tried I pot them back on to the earlier model that is the wires Mercedes Feb 1997.
I did add the 3 prong spark plugs to my November 1997 C180. Could it be that after you say these plugs are not supposed to be fitted to theses Mercedes. Maybe it will be best just to try a new set of plugs in mine just to see if that maybe causing this problems???????????????????????????

The wife's Mercedes now runs well no more problems at all with the right spark plugs.

a Big thank you "Ivanerrol"

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Fri 24 Nov, 2017 10:14 pm
by Ivanerrol
Here's a story for you.
I have a friend with a C220. It hasn't run properly for months. It's a pre '96 model with the suss wiring.
I have suspected the wiring all along. He needs the car every day - he is a pilot a needs to get between Essendon and Moorabin airports on a daily basis.
So He's reluctant to get it off the road for a few days while I check out the wiring.
He has changed.
(a) MAF
(b) Throttle body
(c) Plugs and leads
(d) coils
(e) Fuel Pump
(f) There was an elcheapo PRC Cat on the car - he changed it for a genuine we had in the garage.
(g) Crank sensor and cam senor
(h) Cold air sensor near throttle body.

Yesterday the car broke down on the Citylink toll road. They towed it off. Took it to an ultra tune.

They checked the wiring - looked like O.K.

My friend had a spare fuel rail and injectors. He gave it too the Ultra Tune mechanics. Before thy installed it they cleaned the injectors and fitted new seals and filters.

Car now runs like a gem

Blocked injectors :bs:

Hers's the second story.
My '94 C180 has a serious airleak somewhere in the manifold. I suspected the seals.
today I removed the fuel rail and found
IMG_3557.jpg
two inner injectors missing the seals :dontknow:
Had a look in the head. One was inside the valve chamber :banghead:
The other was in the injector airway.

Installed new seals and filters on the injectors and installed them. Hopefully has fixed my issue.

Re: C180 1997 engine problems?

Posted: Sat 25 Nov, 2017 2:17 pm
by piperjon
Hi,

I was even thinking about changing the injectors before. I added the "Wins" injector cleaner to see if that would fix the problem after a while, just in case the injectors needed cleaning. When I bought this C180. It only had 178,000K's on the clock. It was a Kirrawee car and the lady that owned it had it serviced by Mercedes and the last 2 recites show it was serviced by AutoHaus One in Alexandria NSW. Now 210,000K's as we just got back from seeing family in Gladstone QLD. Plus more family in Brisbane. The Mercedes went well and after changing the cam sensor it was still the same but not as bad.
Anyway I may look into getting the injectors done.
John

Re: C180 1997 engine problems. Is it a fuel pump ?

Posted: Sat 25 Nov, 2017 2:51 pm
by Ivanerrol
Cleaning the injectors is a Diy thing.
There are clear instructions on YouTube.
The seal kits are available at Repco - $36.00 for 4 injectors