Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

1993-Present: C200 CDI, C220 CDI, C270 CDI, C180, C200 Kompressor, C230 Kompressor, C220, C230, C280, C300 C350, CGI & CDI BlueEfficiency variants
Post Reply
User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 02 Sep, 2017 11:44 pm

A story that will grow in the telling.
The W204 C280 has front end noises. Clunking and grinding
41,000 kilometers. 2009 build date.

The 204 front suspensions have two lower control arms, Macpherson struts and a sway bar with link ends.
My car being a six cylinder comes with 17 inch staggered sports wheels with low profile tyres.

When buying this car the P.O. was at pains during the test drive to show off the Harmon Kardon audio system. probably to distract me from the noise that the front suspension was making - more fool me. :whistle:

Isolation so far.
Suspecting tyre noise I swapped the 17 inch wheels and tyres for the Continentals Contact 2's I have on the W210 - the W210 tyres being very quiet.
The W204 tyres went onto the W210 - they're Continental Sports contact 5's very good tyres and very quiet.
So - not the tyres and wheels.

Sway bar links and sway bar bushings. Overseas experience has shown that the links are a source of noise.
I have removed the links and bought new OEM ones.
Driving around without the swaybar being connected at all.
The clunking sound seems to have diminished but not entirely gone away.

Tomorrow I will inspect and if necessary replace the wheel bearings. Overseas experience has shown that there is a slight design flaw in the ABS sensor seal that lets moisture into the rear bearing and resultant rust is an issue.
We will see.
There's a TSB for this but no recall - in Australia.

While at the stealership this morning, the parts guy informed me that the McPherson strut top mounts have been redesigned.
I suspect that this maybe an issue in my car. The original design failing prematurely.
There's also a TSB for this issue - no recall in Australia. Replaced if car under warranty. Car out of warranty - owners pay.

To be continued.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Bartman4800
300 SLR
Posts: 1875
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2008 12:10 am
Model you own: w111
Location: Perth WA

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Bartman4800 » Wed 06 Sep, 2017 1:00 pm

I am not familiar with this model. But I had a 99 Camry V6 before. I replaced the front MC pherson struts and then got a groaning noise going over speed humps. My local auto-one employs real mechanics, and one of them suggested soaking the top mount with inox.
It worked for 2 years until my girlfriend totalled the car...

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

User avatar
dturner44
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue 28 Jul, 2015 4:37 pm
Model you own: w203

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by dturner44 » Fri 15 Sep, 2017 5:08 pm

My 2010 C250 CGI had front suspension knocks at approx. 35,000 Ks. It was caused by faulty valves in the front struts. This model has Agility Control suspension which senses different road conditions and adjusts the suspension damping accordingly. The valves were known to be faulty but MB didn't do a recall, however I believe that if you complained whilst under warranty they did replace the front struts. I had my struts (with redesigned valving) replaced under a used car warranty when I bought the vehicle, problem fixed. You should check if the 2009 model has the same suspension.

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Fri 15 Sep, 2017 9:55 pm

dturner44 wrote:
Fri 15 Sep, 2017 5:08 pm
My 2010 C250 CGI had front suspension knocks at approx. 35,000 Ks. It was caused by faulty valves in the front struts. This model has Agility Control suspension which senses different road conditions and adjusts the suspension damping accordingly. The valves were known to be faulty but MB didn't do a recall, however I believe that if you complained whilst under warranty they did replace the front struts. I had my struts (with redesigned valving) replaced under a used car warranty when I bought the vehicle, problem fixed. You should check if the 2009 model has the same suspension.
My car does have Agility Control with a switch setting :whistle:
Probably just another under engineered addition. :Doh:

I'll check this out. Thanks for the tip DTurner.

Meanwhile.
I changed the drivers side front wheel bearing. Not only were the bearings scored but the hub also. New Hub required $$$$$$
And then there's the axle spindle.
bearing 02.JPG
Note that metal failure. It's not just rust.
I showed this to the guys down the local stealership. This spindle should have never made it onto the car - which begs the question - quality control :wave:

I'm up for a new axle/spindle stub - Stealership cost $1000.00 incl GST.

Another under engineered issue. MB changed the position of the ABS sensor. original W204's came with ABS sensors with faulty sealing.
The faulty sealing let water ingress to the rear bearing on the front wheels causing them to rust out.
There's a TSB on this. New type seal should be changed at service time.

The stealership guys gave me a new seal for the ABS sensor - before I put the new bearing hub on.

Changing the wheel bearing made a big difference to the rumbling noise situation.

Tip from old mechanic.

To find suspension noises.

Grab hold of the spring.

Rotate the wheel - if you can feel the rumbling sensation through the spring you know your bearings are suspect.

Get a mate to use a pry bar and test each LCA and ball joint. You will feel faulty issues through the spring.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

stefcep
B Class
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun 16 Dec, 2012 11:24 am
Model you own: w202

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by stefcep » Sun 10 Dec, 2017 2:08 pm

Have you fixed all of this Errol?

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Sun 10 Dec, 2017 3:24 pm

stefcep wrote:
Sun 10 Dec, 2017 2:08 pm
Have you fixed all of this Errol?
Not yet.
I'm contemplating the W204's future.

(a) Needs new front knuckles and axle spindles - both sides.
(b) Needs new wheel bearing hub and bearings one side front.
(c) Needs new strut mounts - they're roller type plus the fixings to hold everything together.
(d) Needs front torque bars both sides
(e) Needs new front brake shield back mounts which contain revised water seals
(f) Engine has a misfire when cold
(g) Rear lights require new circuit boards and rewiring - a very labor intensive job
(h) Transmission clunks at highway speed when lifting off the accelerator and then putting your foot down again (suspect software issue)
(j) Alarm has come up indicating Service C required.

Car has 42,000 kms on it.

The stealership costs to fix all of the above is more than the price I just paid for a 2004 W211 with 84,000ks on it.
If I do all that work myself using a combination of imported and local sourced parts this will still be 60% of the stealers cost.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Tony From West Oz
OZBENZ moderator
Posts: 3203
Joined: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 9:04 pm
Model you own: w202
Location: Bedfordale WA

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Tony From West Oz » Sun 10 Dec, 2017 6:32 pm

The "modern" Mercedes Benz are just like the rest of the car world - Throw away cars.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

stefcep
B Class
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun 16 Dec, 2012 11:24 am
Model you own: w202

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by stefcep » Mon 11 Dec, 2017 6:24 pm

that's really disappointing that a car with so few Km's can have those sorts of issues.

Last month cousin just dropped over $100k on a new 2017 AMG C43. He had an older CLK, and said the new ones aren't made the same. He wondered if the buyer of the CLK would sell it back to him....

newMercowner69
S Class
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue 24 Feb, 2015 5:00 pm
Model you own: w202
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by newMercowner69 » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 7:19 pm

If you need new bearings let me know,
I can supply cheaper than "stealership",
Also can possibly supply the strut mount bearings.BTW/fyi BEWARE of cheap inferior Chinese made copies of the GENUINE, O.E.M. MB wheel bearings which are FAG brand,
Have been since the very 1st model.EXCEPT for needle roller & idler/tensioner bearings &clutch &auto electrical bearings they're INA & NSK respectively,
Because the starter motor&alternator&A/C are Bosch & jap compressors ,
Bosch use jap bearings in there auto electrical components.

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Mon 22 Jan, 2018 8:25 pm

After having someone who came around to check out the W204 for sale and who quickly sussed out the noisy front end, I decided it was time to really find out where the noise was coming from.

It's the brake pads vibrating. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
You can turn the rotor back and forward and rock the rotor side to side and hear a distinct clunk as well as feel the clunking on the coil over spring.

Now to figure out how to stop the noise. Brake squeal paste doesn't do the job.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Tue 23 Jan, 2018 8:20 pm

Went down to the local stealers to get some brake pad hardware - springs.
Had to buy the whole kit - pads and springs. Was only $20.00 more than the Zimmerman's I had in.

Spent 6 hours changing the Pads. - Carefully. Adjusted the wheel bearings while I was there.

The Mercedes Pads come with special MB grease to lubricate all mating metal parts. Used sparingly.

After completion - went for a test drive. 80% of the noise is gone. :bounce:
There is still some issue with the struts or control arm rubbers - clunks over bumps.

Road noise is much reduced. Which goes to show. There must be some lacking design here. road and tyre noise transmitted through the brake and wheel bearing hardware into the suspension. There's obviously not enough noise insulation from the struts and control arm rubbers.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Wed 28 Feb, 2018 8:10 pm

Clunking is still apparent.
Checked the upper and lower control arm ball joints - all noisy. Problem with cars sitting around for years not being driven :whistle:
Went down to the local stealers to check prices - $2,500 for the four arms plus bolts. :bs:

On line local Lemforders (OEM) - $830 delivered.

Something to do over the weekend :whistle:
I need to take this car to Qld next week.

Ran the scanner over the engine. Left bank of cylinders running slightly rich. Pulled the left bank spark plugs - gummed up. Spark plugs are double platinum - supposed to last 100.000ks.
Hopefully it needs a good run with some injector cleaner through it.
I’ve only done 4K in this car in the past 8 months - mostly city stop start. Economy is worse than my E classes.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
DBW124
Finnie
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun 26 Apr, 2009 3:07 pm
Model you own: w124
Location: Melbourne Inner East

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by DBW124 » Fri 02 Mar, 2018 9:06 pm

I was going to ask what the accumulated fuel consumption figure on your C280 was.

Going by official consumption figures, the W-211 with the M-272 uses more fuel than with the M-112 even when comparing the E280 (3.0) with the earlier E320.

Your C280 (officially) also uses more fuel than the updated C300 with the 3.5 litre (which seems to have lost 15 Kw from when installed in the E-Class).

PS. Still waiting for pics of the latest addition to the fleet.
W124 E 280

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:31 am

Have just changed both set of control arms on both sides.
Back and forth to Total tools to buy
(A) breaker bar that fits the Torx bits
(B) proper ball joint separator.
(C) 21mm spanner (who has one of them in their kit?)

Both front control arms were not original?? Production stamp on them is later than my car. Don’t know who changed them before but genuine MB parts albeit W203 arms.
Whoever changed these arms did a lousy job. The ball joint bolt nut on one side was cross threaded. Not done up tightly - ball joint was loose in position - ergo causing the clunking.
I did the nut and ball joint just fell out of its position - didn’t need separator. :whistle:

This is a straight forward job. However needs the appropriate tools. And is time consuming.

This morning off to have the car aligned on the Hunter machine. $45.00 at Continental tyre agent.


Petrol consumption on this M272 280 engine. Took it from Melbourne to Corowa return - computer indicated around 9 litres per 100. Too much.
My W210 M112 E240 averaged between 7 & 8 litres per 100 on a Melbourne - Noosa return trip.

The W211 M112 E240 computer indicates better fuel economy than the M272 C280 around town.

I’m just about to take the C280 to Noosa. I’ll report back on the indicated computer consumption.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
T-Modell
SLS AMG
Posts: 2768
Joined: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 12:47 am
Model you own: w107
Location: Weinheim / Germany
Contact:

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by T-Modell » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 6:06 pm

Ivanerrol wrote:
Sat 03 Mar, 2018 9:31 am
... I’ll report back on the indicated computer consumption.
Hi,
don't rely on those computers, write down the amount of fuel you fill up. In my W211 the computer resets at every 100,000kms. I write down ALL fuel bills and in the first and second 100,000 kms, the deviation was more than 0.5 litres/100km, actually the car took more. I guess that's important for marketing reasons to show less on the computer.

Of course you have to do this on more than one refill as this is not accurate.
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Mon 05 Mar, 2018 8:37 pm

Now on the road to Noosa. Suspension seems to be sorted - quite quiet on NSW part of Hume.

Noting the rainstorms in NSW and QLD, I decided to Change the wipers. Being fearful of the price a the stealership I went off to the local stooper cheap - $40.00 each side for generic brand. Bought them and took them home to fit - they didn’t even though the SCA computer said they did.Refund revived. Went over to Repco - they had some Bosch type for $42.00 each - didn’t fit even though their computer said they were the right ones for a W204. :Doh:

With apprehension I went down to the stealers. $77.00 for a pair of OEM ones with. Mercedes stamp on it.

Wise to check first - next time. :whistle:
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Thu 08 Mar, 2018 11:58 pm

So.
I've driven the W204 from Melbourne to Noosa.
1934km's @ 7.5 litres per 100km according to computer.

Need to tighten up the ball joints.

Worse. Engine was acting up - a bit rough under acceleration. Today it failed to start under crank. :bs: - Bollocks. third go and engine started.

Lucky I bought the handy iCarsoft MBII scanner with me. Hooked it up. Failing Crank Hall sensor fault code :wall:

I'll need to source one and install it before returning to Melbourne - don't want to be stuck by the road with a failed CPS. :whistle:

This car has now just 46,000km's on the clock. Failed ball joints and now failed CPS. :Doh:

VIP passengers report. We should have come up in the W210 or W211. It's impossible to sleep in the W204 :dontknow:

Road report.
It's now dual highway from Melbourne to Grafton except for that little bit of Pennant Hills road in the Thornleigh area and a few K's between Port McQuarrie and Grafton. Grafton to Ballina is Bollocks - almost roadworks the whole way. The bypassing of Macksville has taken 15 - 20 minutes off the journey.
Woodburn and Broadwater should have been bypassed years ago. The road through those towns is a disgrace.

The Family Hotel at Gundagai has great Pub Grub.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
DBW124
Finnie
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun 26 Apr, 2009 3:07 pm
Model you own: w124
Location: Melbourne Inner East

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by DBW124 » Fri 09 Mar, 2018 7:08 pm

Mid 7s over 2000 kms seems good. Even allowing for 10% error (unlikely to be that far out), still much better than my E280 would get.
W124 E 280

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 2:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by Ivanerrol » Fri 09 Mar, 2018 7:52 pm

DBW124 wrote:
Fri 09 Mar, 2018 7:08 pm
Mid 7s over 2000 kms seems good. Even allowing for 10% error (unlikely to be that far out), still much better than my E280 would get.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if your M104 achieved the low 8's even high 7's on the same journey.
It's mostly cruise control 110KPH on double highway to Grafton.
I filled up in Grafon and drove to Noosa - I'm still driving around on that Grafton petrol. The computer indicated 7.0 per 100 between Grafton and Noosa - more 100kph in that section.

My W202 M11 was surprisingly frugal on a trip.

I have a CPS arriving by express post from Melbourne tomorrow morning. The local stealership didn't have one, none in Brizvegas - had to come from Melbourne.
Local Stealership cost : $155.00 plus GST. . :banghead: U.S. Stealership cost : $US35.00 FCP Euro cost $US24.00
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

gazman
Gelandewagen
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun 10 Apr, 2016 1:16 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: Nth Dandalup WA

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by gazman » Fri 09 Mar, 2018 8:34 pm

Yep it seem's at aussie stealerships it's byo lube of your choice and bend over
1989 560 SEL King of the road

User avatar
DBW124
Finnie
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun 26 Apr, 2009 3:07 pm
Model you own: w124
Location: Melbourne Inner East

Re: Ivanerrols W204 front end issue

Post by DBW124 » Sat 30 Jun, 2018 6:51 am

Ivanerrol wrote:
Fri 09 Mar, 2018 7:52 pm
DBW124 wrote:
Fri 09 Mar, 2018 7:08 pm
Mid 7s over 2000 kms seems good. Even allowing for 10% error (unlikely to be that far out), still much better than my E280 would get.
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if your M104 achieved the low 8's even high 7's on the same journey.
It's mostly cruise control 110KPH on double highway to Grafton.
I filled up in Grafon and drove to Noosa - I'm still driving around on that Grafton petrol. The computer indicated 7.0 per 100 between Grafton and Noosa - more 100kph in that section.....

I've recorded high 7s once during the nine years I've had the car.

I'm relocating to Brisbane next week. The car will be fully loaded so not expecting the best.
W124 E 280

Post Reply

Return to “W202-w205 C-Class Sedan, Estate & Coupe”