Bloody thing will not start!!

1973-1980 : 280S, 280SE, 280SEL, 300SD, 350SE, 350SEL, 450SE, 450SEL, 450SEL 6.9
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Cream 280SE
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Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Sun 20 May, 2018 5:49 pm

Hello all,

Ok after 7 odd years, I finally started my 280SE.

New fuel pump, new accumulator, fuel filter , dizzy cap, rotor button, plugs, fuel distributor rebuilt, fuel lines and tank cleaned.

She was going! Short trips around the block, I was so proud!!

As in a previous post, purchased a set of BERU leads a few eeeks ago as I read that copper leads are the best for these vehicles.

Put them in last week. Car won’t kick over!!

This week end, I checked fuel to fuel distributor, it flows.

Took out new spark plugs and cleaned, not that they were dirty, checked spark in each lead, and there is spark.

Placed old leads on, and now still won’t kick over!!

Could those BERU leads have damaged something??

Any help would be great!

Thanks

Darren

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Astro-Benz777
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Astro-Benz777 » Sun 20 May, 2018 9:08 pm

Sounds to me like a Fuel Pump Relay.
W126's truly were the last real Benz in my opinion! :occasion5:
FORMER FAMILY:
1989 300SE (W126) Midnight Blue, Blue/Grey Interior (Gearhardt)
1982 380SE (W126) Thistle Green, Tan Interior (Sherman)
CURRENT DAILY DRIVE & BELOVED FAMILY MEMBER
1984 280SE (W126) Thistle Green, Tan Interior (Hilda)

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kimrh
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by kimrh » Sun 20 May, 2018 9:15 pm

You haven't got the leads mixed up on the wrong cylinders by any chance?
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John Green
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by John Green » Mon 21 May, 2018 1:09 pm

Check a few basic's:

- push down gently on the dunny flap with the ignition on. You should trigger the switch in the air flow meter that then triggers the fuel pump, when the fuel pump starts the flap should then push back at you. No fuel pump, maybe relay or other issues.
- get an only plug and check for spark by taking the coil lead off dist car and earthing plug to engine somewhere.
- if you have spark do the same thing with a single plug.

report back.
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Cream 280SE
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Mon 21 May, 2018 6:22 pm

Hi John

Ok, I pushed down the dunny lid with ignition on.

Fuel pump starts.

Placed a spark plug into coil lead. Earthed onto engine, with a bluey white bright spark.

Then pushed the coil lead back into distributor cap.

I then removed the first spark plug, and lead, then earthed to engine. Once again, it was creating a spark.

Thanks

Darren

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Lance
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Lance » Mon 21 May, 2018 6:27 pm

Cream 280SE wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 6:22 pm
Placed a spark plug into coil lead. Earthed onto engine,
The MB manual specifically recommends not to do that as it may damage the electronics.
Need to do fuel pressure checks I would say as it is very important for it to start. Also make sure that cold start injector is working.
Regards,
Lance Smart

W114 280E 5 speed manual
W123 280E

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Lance
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Lance » Mon 21 May, 2018 6:29 pm

Lance wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 6:27 pm
The MB manual specifically recommends not to do that as it may damage the electronics.
An easy alternative is to connect a timing light to the lead. If it flashes then you have spark at the plug.
Regards,
Lance Smart

W114 280E 5 speed manual
W123 280E

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Astro-Benz777
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Astro-Benz777 » Tue 22 May, 2018 7:07 am

Lance wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 6:29 pm
Lance wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 6:27 pm
The MB manual specifically recommends not to do that as it may damage the electronics.
An easy alternative is to connect a timing light to the lead. If it flashes then you have spark at the plug.
One would need to own or have access to a Timing Light.
By the terminology being used, I'd say this person doesn't, to be honest....neither do I!
Have not yet had need of one.
The only reason I threw in my 2 cents with the FPR was because it was what caused a similar sounding issue with my 280SE however out of the darkness rode Mr Green with some actual useful wisdom. That's not to diminish everyone else's input, in fact the myriad of perspectives one receives answers from is the real beauty of asking the forum a question. John, you just have a very clear and logical way of articulating your answers as well as the knowledge to back it up.
W126's truly were the last real Benz in my opinion! :occasion5:
FORMER FAMILY:
1989 300SE (W126) Midnight Blue, Blue/Grey Interior (Gearhardt)
1982 380SE (W126) Thistle Green, Tan Interior (Sherman)
CURRENT DAILY DRIVE & BELOVED FAMILY MEMBER
1984 280SE (W126) Thistle Green, Tan Interior (Hilda)

Cream 280SE
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Tue 22 May, 2018 9:48 am

Hi Astro

I agree!! If John states that I should try his elimination process, then I will do it.

John knows best!!

Cream 280SE
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Wed 23 May, 2018 7:08 pm

I have to add that this test was done with the old leads, not the new Beru ones.

Cream 280SE
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Wed 30 May, 2018 7:10 pm

Hi John,

Well I reported back. Any suggestions?

Today I removed the internal fuel filter after drained the petrol. Petrol was clean, filter which was brand new was spotless.

I poured brand new fuel back in , (10 Litres). Kept drained fuel for lawn mower.

Start vehicle, turns over.... no start.

Just cannot work out why the car started and ran with the old leads on, but when placed these Beru leads on, no start , and still no start!!

Any suggestions?? It has spark , it has fuel, air, .

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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Henry Schuman » Wed 30 May, 2018 11:41 pm

Any suggestions?? It has spark , it has fuel, air, .
You need Fuel .Air ,Spark and Exhaust and all this needs to be at the Right Intervals!
Engine could have jumped time or many other things in which a TDC (TOP DEAD CENTER) check and or along with a compression check might show some light here . Also moving the wires from cap could have cracked it somehow letting the spark bleed around and or the Rotor cap just shorted out .

Some other things to check and do .
1. Pour a SMALL amount of Fuel in the air intake and see if it will start up or try to .
2. Have someone spin the engine over while you feel if there is any pressure out the exhaust pipe .
3.If you don't get any results with 1 and 2 then depending on your year model and type of Emission controls you could have an exhaust blockage and if thats the case it will not start and you will have to find out out what is blocking the exhaust, Catalytic convertors are known culprits as they for no rhyme or reason just disintegrate for no reason other than to piss you off and restrict the exhaust causing just the problem you are facing . I have Found muflers collapse ,Rats Nests,Bee Hives , Potatoes, and other things blocking exhaust over the years . IF this is the problem you can remove the cat. and try to start and or remove the pipes at the exhaust manifold and try to start it .
Try these things and report back and maybe someone has more input other than my 45 years of experience on Mercedes Benz Autos.No one knows everything but I am getting close :dontknow:
Don't Squat With Your Spurs On !!!!

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John Green
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by John Green » Tue 05 Jun, 2018 1:00 pm

Cream 280SE wrote:
Wed 30 May, 2018 7:10 pm
Hi John,

Well I reported back. Any suggestions?

Just cannot work out why the car started and ran with the old leads on, but when placed these Beru leads on, no start , and still no start!!
The only logical answer is that the leads are on it the wrong order. If it has a good spark when you earth a plug to the body then it should run, but as discussed below everything needs to be in the right order. Can you please post up some pictures of the engine and what you have done, maybe someone here will notice something.

Also as pointed out elsewhere one thread per topic please, this is actually for your benefit as you will be able to read back though the whole saga on one set of pages.
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Cream 280SE
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Wed 27 Jun, 2018 8:47 pm

Got it started on the week end!!!

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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by John Green » Thu 28 Jun, 2018 7:32 am

Cream 280SE wrote:
Wed 27 Jun, 2018 8:47 pm
Got it started on the week end!!!
So what was the problem?
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Cream 280SE
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Thu 28 Jun, 2018 8:13 pm

Hi John

I admit, it was out of fuel!!!! When I had time, I disconnected the main fuel line from the fuel distributor.
Now it was flowing, but not much. I thought, well I’m sure I placed at least 5 litres of fuel in the tank, forgetting that I had run the fuel pump weeks before by once again disconnecting the fuel line and placing a jug to catch the fuel, so any particles wouldn’t go into the distributor.

So I basically had almost emptied the tank, but forgot I did this!!!

Anyway, I placed more fuel in the tank over the weekend, and hey presto!! She kicks over.

I then placed the BERU leads on, and she running better, but still rough, so needs someone that can tune , do mixtures, etc now, but being up here on Central Coast , I do not have anyone I trust!!

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John Green
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by John Green » Fri 29 Jun, 2018 12:50 pm

Cream 280SE wrote:
Mon 21 May, 2018 6:22 pm
Hi John

Ok, I pushed down the dunny lid with ignition on.

Fuel pump starts.
For future reference I would suggest that you do the push down check again, you will feel how the resistance should be when you push on it.
Inaugural OZBENZ national meet this September, all welcome to attend. https://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25165

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Cream 280SE
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Cream 280SE » Fri 29 Jun, 2018 1:00 pm

Yes, I have noticed that when it’s is pumping fuel through, the dunny lid has far more resistance.

Than you

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by Tony From West Oz » Fri 29 Jun, 2018 5:34 pm

Basic requirements for an ICE to operate:
  • Free flowing intake Air.
  • Fuel (adequate fuel of the correct type).
  • Compression (correct compression ratio for the fuel it was designed for).
  • Ignition at the correct time.
  • Free flowing Exhaust.
The failure of any one of these will cause issues with starting / running.
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Re: Bloody thing will not start!!

Post by merc-304 » Fri 29 Jun, 2018 5:35 pm

Cream 280SE wrote:
Thu 28 Jun, 2018 8:13 pm
Hi John

I admit, it was out of fuel!!!! When I had time, I disconnected the main fuel line from the fuel distributor.
Now it was flowing, but not much. I thought, well I’m sure I placed at least 5 litres of fuel in the tank, forgetting that I had run the fuel pump weeks before by once again disconnecting the fuel line and placing a jug to catch the fuel, so any particles wouldn’t go into the distributor.

So I basically had almost emptied the tank, but forgot I did this!!!

Anyway, I placed more fuel in the tank over the weekend, and hey presto!! She kicks over.

I then placed the BERU leads on, and she running better, but still rough, so needs someone that can tune , do mixtures, etc now, but being up here on Central Coast , I do not have anyone I trust!!
Fantastic she is running
I would have never owned up to 'it was out of Fuel'
380 SEC

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