My First post - Restoring a W107

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iank
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My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Mon 25 Feb, 2008 8:06 pm

Hi Folks,

I'm Ian, and very new to this (indeed any) on-line forum.

I have owned a 1971 350SL for about 18 years and although I quickly learned it was not my best used vehicle purchase as it had far too much rust in parts of the floor pan and inside rear mudguards, etc., I did use it as my "every day" car for a few years. For the last 10 years it has been on blocks in my shed awaiting some loving restoration, and as I have now just clicked over the wrong side of 60 I have decided I can no longer wait to get time to do it, I must MAKE time to do so.

Over the coming months I may well Impose some dumb questions on you as I move through this exciting venture. My first, hopefully simple, although perhaps peculiar query is - where will I find the chassis number, please? (I must have known once, but have forgotten). It has no Australian Compliance plate as it is a UK import, I believe.

Thank you
iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

"Keep enjoying the Journey"
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Des » Mon 25 Feb, 2008 9:44 pm

Hi Ian
Welcome to our forum,
SL's are great cars, you must miss putting the top down on a sunny day and enjoying the drive

There should be a metal tag riveted under the bonnet, might be on the front panel that looks something like this:

Image

Yours will start with 107xxx etc...
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by AMG » Mon 25 Feb, 2008 10:05 pm

On the radiator support just to the left of centre you will find the chassis no.
Run that through the russian mb website VIN check, and get the details checked out- easy.

Unless..... the car's had a front-ender. then there will be no chassis number, only the compliance plate with a chassis number
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Fotografa » Tue 26 Feb, 2008 7:32 am

Ian,

Welcome!

Yes, Joe is correct, on the left of the bonnet catch, stamped into the radiator support.

Even if the car has no Australian compliance, provided you can show that it has been registered in the past you should be fine for rego.

I doubt it will show up in the Russian VIN decoder as it is too old.

Can we see some photos? Any more details on the car, colour, etc?

Regards

Shane
1981 500SLC 040 Black on Black leather
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Children that have left home:
1973 R107 450SL Icon Gold
1974 C107 450SLC Black
1971 W114 230 Arctic White
1974 W114 280E Signal red
1981 W123 280E Signal red
1974 W114 280CE Silver
1975 W114 280CE Metallic Red

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iank
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Tue 26 Feb, 2008 10:03 pm

Hi Guys,

Thank you all for your quick, friendly and very helpful, replies. I will check for the chassis no. plate and let you know how I get on in the next day or two. It will be quite a while before I need to worry about rego again for it, but yes, I do have numerous NSW rego renewals in my name, somewhere (??) - I just need to find my archive!!

I took some photos a couple of weeks ago, when I took it off its blocks and gave it a clean up, before repositioning it and starting to strip it down. I'll get my act together, and get them posted to the forum as soon as I can!

Shane, thank you for your comments. I live these days in Central Victoria at a place called Faraday, about 10 Kms from Castlemaine. Where are you?

Thank you again for your welcoming notes,

Ian K
iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Des » Tue 26 Feb, 2008 11:09 pm

Ian we would love to see some pictures of your car and keep us posted with your restoration project.
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Wed 27 Feb, 2008 7:56 pm

Hi again Guys,

Thank you all for the advice on the chassis no. Of course it was right where you said it would be!

Hi Des, I have attached 3 recent photos, taken just before I started to pull the machine down. And, yes, I will attempt a bit of a commentary on my progress, but be patient, this may take a while. There are lots of competing demands on my time.

Bye now, Ian K
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iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Des » Wed 27 Feb, 2008 8:07 pm

Nice looking car Ian,

number plates would be easy to remember.

:)
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Fri 29 Feb, 2008 7:30 pm

Thanks for your comments, Des. Hopefully it will look as good from underneath as it does from much of on top in some months (???) time.

The number plate is appropriate I guess, but not my doing! I just "inherited" it when I bought the car. It's also not much use to me now as I will be re-reging it in Victoria.

Bye now, IanK :D
iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

"Keep enjoying the Journey"
:joker: :coffee2:

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by ozbenz450slc » Mon 03 Mar, 2008 10:14 am

Ian
I have 3 of those type rims and not been able to locate a 4th or the hubs that mate to them.
I have been looking for a good pic of what the style would look like with those particular rims and "voiala"
Are yours 15 inch.

peter

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Tue 04 Mar, 2008 5:57 pm

Hi Peter,

I quite like the look of the wheels, too. I just "inherited" them when I bought the car. But mine are only 14" versions.

Bye now, Ian K
iank
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1980 LA911

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by AMG » Wed 05 Mar, 2008 8:43 pm

The 'rims' as you refer to them are known in the trade as 'D's' or Daytons... popular with the 'hood rich' (gangsters) in LA in the last decade or 2 as a revival, the "gold D's " now come in up to 20-22" sizes, and can be laced any way you like.

a set of 18's with 72 spokes will kill your hip pocket to the tune of about 2K per wheel. don't forget the lead mallet you need in the boot of the car to get them off.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by ozbenz450slc » Thu 06 Mar, 2008 10:23 am

JoeB wrote:The 'rims' as you refer to them are known in the trade as 'D's' or Daytons... popular with the 'hood rich' (gangsters) in LA in the last decade or 2 as a revival, the "gold D's " now come in up to 20-22" sizes, and can be laced any way you like.

a set of 18's with 72 spokes will kill your hip pocket to the tune of about 2K per wheel. don't forget the lead mallet you need in the boot of the car to get them off.
The style of rim concerned have a hub system that I have never seen b4 in that the inside hub that bolts to the rotor or drum is like a mouth full of teeth. They're not splined like the Jags or MG's.
Extremely difficult to locate the hubs and knockons.

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by AMG » Thu 06 Mar, 2008 12:06 pm

have a look half way down this page: http://www.daytonwirewheels.com/accessories.html

If that's not exactly what you meant, perhaps you could post a pic or three of the wheel, the hub and spinner?

Usually they're branded on the inside of the rim, on the hub with the thread direction and on the spinner also.

I've attached the '07 cattle-dog if you think you want to look further.
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Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Damo_R129 » Fri 07 Mar, 2008 9:30 pm

Hi Iank,

Welcome to the forum, and good luck with the restore. It looks like you have a good cosmetic base to start with. enjot getting it back on the road.

Damian.
Victorian Club Member
1991 R129 500 SL
2004 W163 ML 350
2003 Holden Astra Turbo Convertible [for sale]

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Tue 11 Mar, 2008 7:06 pm

Thanks for the encouragement, Damian. (I'm sure there will be times when I need all I can get!!). I have started by stripping out most of the interior including seats, carpet, etc, as well as doing a bit of preparation toward pulling the rear end out of it. So far I am seeing a few little "challenges", but really nothing more than I expected. So that's GOOD, so far.

Bye now,

Ian K :)
iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Damo_R129 » Tue 11 Mar, 2008 8:29 pm

make sure you post lots of pix we love seeing dismantled mercs almost as much as assembled ones!
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2004 W163 ML 350
2003 Holden Astra Turbo Convertible [for sale]

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Wed 12 Mar, 2008 7:44 pm

I'll keep that in mind, Damian.
Not much to see yet, but I'll post a couple of "the damage" (both existing, and inflicted by me) next week. That will at least show I've done something!!!

Bye now,

IanK :)
iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

"Keep enjoying the Journey"
:joker: :coffee2:

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Mon 17 Mar, 2008 7:14 pm

Hi Folks,

I did a little of the "project" at the weekend. Here are a couple of pics with the interior stripped out. I'll try for a few under-car shots soon.

Bye now, Ian :)
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iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

"Keep enjoying the Journey"
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Sun 17 Aug, 2008 4:29 pm

Hi Folks,

I've been slack in posting any thing lately, but that's because I've also been slack in doing much to progress my restoration project! Anyway, I can report that today I pulled the rear end diff/suspension sub-assembly out of the car, so could finaly get a proper look at my worst "cancer" spots. There is certainly some there, but not as bad to fix as I imagined. Some messy cutting, grinding and new metal welding (I have a mate who will do the welding bit) should start to make a huge improvement in that area. I will try to post a few pics soon.

Cheers, Iank :)
iank
1971 350SL
1980 LA911

"Keep enjoying the Journey"
:joker: :coffee2:

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by AMG » Sun 17 Aug, 2008 8:37 pm

If you have a heat gun, you'll find it is much easier to remove the bitumen deadener. Then the Dynamat.

It's a horrible job, but it is worth it.

Example:
DSC00092.JPG
IMG_0863.JPG
DSC00090.JPG
IMG_0862.JPG
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Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by John Green » Sun 17 Aug, 2008 8:52 pm

JoeB, wouldn't that stuff work better if to lined the inside of the door skin with it?? PITA to do but i would have figured a better job.
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by AMG » Sun 17 Aug, 2008 9:12 pm

John,

You are correct. I haven't gotten around to it yet. To stop noise and vibration, it is recommended to do both the door skin, and the inner frame, like I have done here. If one is using the standard door card, it is recommended to put a thin layer of soft urethane foam (3mm) on the back of the door card, to stop all the potential squeaks.
Also it pays to dry-lube all the door lock rods with white lithium or special MB grease, to stop any potential rattles etc.
of course, if you're not using the standard masonite door cards and trim, then the new door card needs to be sufficiently dense and heavy enough to absorb vibration ( from the obvious - speakers - let's face it, you wouldn't modify the door trim otherwise). Fibreglass is pretty much acoustically dead, but will resonate annoyingly if not sufficiently thick, and not glued / screwed down properly.

MDF (craftwood) is often used in making replacement custom trim, but should be spray sealed with fibreglass or epoxy resin to waterproof it. it will be much heavier, and requires screwing to the door, and not using the factory clips (otherwise it will pop off)

It is not recommended to use 3mm mdf for remanufacturing door cards, best to use masonite due to it's superior density. for the thicker custom doors, it's normal to use 5mm or 10 mm for the card, and build up from there to all the custom shapes.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by davidharris » Sat 29 Aug, 2009 12:37 pm

Hi, can you give me an idea of what is cost to line your car with Dynamat? I have a hole in my drivers side floor and have just discovered a water leak on the other side so I had to pull all of the carpets etc out. They have been in the shed drying for two weeks but some pieces still have water in them.

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by AMG » Sat 29 Aug, 2009 1:00 pm

I recommend to get the rust fixed first, by welding up any holes, and replacing rusty panels as necessary. treat any bare metal with POR-15 as per the product instructions, then you can apply the dynamat. you will need a rubber roller, or if you're lazy a fibreglassing roller like I used, although it is not really the best tool it will help the dynamat conform to the surface irregularities, and you must make sure you do this. Air pockets are a huge no-no.

a 107 will take approximately 3 bulk packs of dynamat, you can easily use more if you want to do other areas, and obviously an SLC will use more than an SL, due to the extra floorpan space in the rear. and depending on where you buy it, the cost can vary wildly. avoid your local car audio guy, as they're bound to rip you off, unless you know them well. I bought mine from ebay.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Wed 03 May, 2017 5:36 pm

Hi all,

I probably need to "re-introduce" myself - Why (and who cares anyway). I started this thread early 2008, to advise that I was commencing a bit of a restoration on my beloved 1971 R107 350sl (of course). You can easily see the great level of assistance you blokes gave me as I was getting started, by looking back through the thread, and again I sincerely thank all of you.

Well, after many years of the 107 sitting on stands in the shed, in a state of much undress, without a great deal of progress happening, I am here to say it is now well on the way to being fully assembled again. We have come so far since I retired at the end of 2016 - yippee!! Don't get me wrong - this is no "bare metal" restoration, meticulously carried out by an expert artisan!! More a - cut out the rusty bits, weld in new steel where needed, replace very tired rear axle carrier bushes, etc, plus a few other bits and pieces, coat the under body with under-body deadener, tidy up a few outer body "dings", and re-assemble, jobs. I had long since recognised that both, I lacked the knowledge and ability to do a "professional" job, and the car was really not "good enough" to start with to attempt any restore to concourse level. [It had obviously had a number of different "handy men" have a go at rust removal, if you get my drift.] It should now be solid, faithful, road-worthy, and (hopefully as I recall it) alot of fun for me to cruise around in on the odd day here and there.

Why am I bothering you with this story, which I know you have heard many times in similar forms over the years? Firstly, perhaps one or two may look back and wonder whatever happened to "that" car? Secondly, in the near future I will be attempting to get the engine running after some 20 years of "rest"! So I may be back here with many questions, humbly seeking your knowledgeable help, with any "brick walls" I may come up against.

I will report progress over coming weeks/months, etc. [I still do have other "farming" type duties to which I must attend!!]

Best regards, iank
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1980 LA911

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Wed 03 May, 2017 8:21 pm

Good luck with it all.

If it's been 20 years, from other threads on here I'd recommend taking the fuel tank out and emptying old fuel, and cleaning. Careful of fumes and danger of explosion (no ignition sources). There's a strainer at the bottom of the tank that's worth cleaning.

Others may want to comment, but might be worth spraying some light oil or auto transmission fluid into each cylinder before turning engine over given the length of time since last start.

Check for split fuel hoses to injectors, and condition of hose from inlet manifold to MAP sensor (signals ECU if engine is under load) which might save some heartache chasing overfueling.

All the best!
Emad,
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1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Thu 04 May, 2017 10:13 am

Thanks for the comments. They help me feel a little more confident with the way I am going about this job.

Fuel tank was removed early on in the job, mainly because of welding to be done around rear wheel area (as was the complete rear axle and diff, etc). I did not find any filter though, but I didn't try to get "into" the tank!! Is the filter actually in the tank, and can it be accessed through the fuel gauge sender opening? I didn't look at that, and now can't remember how big the opening at the top of the tank is.

Spark plugs have been re-newed, and light oil squirted into all cylinders, and engine turned over by hand before any consideration to do so using starter motor.

I have replaced a couple of "doggy" fuel hoses (near pump) and the injector and MAP hoses are all looking ok. But I will pay some more attention to those injector ones. Thanks.

One question that does exercise my mind is - having had the petrol tank (and system) empty, is it necessary to perform any kind of "bleeding" in preparation for an initial start (as in a diesel engine)??

cheers, iank
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Mercmad » Thu 04 May, 2017 10:21 am

No need tpo bleed as the pump should run for a few seconds as you turn the ignition on . it may crank for a few minutes before firing as the pressure builds up. .You should invest in a cheap fuel pressure gauge which you connect in the line between the cold start valve and the the fuel rail. You want to see 30PSi fuel pressure . If not ,post up the question as it's likely that the pump will be stuck and they are expensive. .

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Thu 04 May, 2017 10:37 am

Many thanks Mercmad. That info is very welcome. I will have a look at that fuel pressure gauge suggestion, and where you are indicating to inset it.
In fact the pump was stuck. I checked it on the bench with a battery before install. Finished up removing the pump end,turning the motor over a few times (carefully) using the exposed shaft, and then got it running happily on the battery. Reassembled (a little trickie to get the end plate lined up correctly) then the complete pump ran happily on the bench. Now installed on car, and although I have not really attempted to start the engine, I have given it a short crank over and observed (heard) as you mention, the pump run momentarily while the engine was cranking.

I did also notice that the pump stopped when I let the ignition key drop back to the "ignition on" position. Is that normal?

iank :coffee2:
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Thu 04 May, 2017 7:28 pm

Emad,
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Fri 05 May, 2017 8:34 am

Many thanks for the links. They contain alot of enlightening info. I will try to get time today to have a better look at the bottom of the tank, and hopefully remove the strainer.

I wonder if you would mind answering me a (probably dumb) question - how does one go about creating then pasting a link (such as you have just done for me) into a forum post. I just have not worked that out, and cannot find anything in the FAQs.

cheers, iank
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Fri 05 May, 2017 5:45 pm

Well, following the excellent description (even drawing) contained in the thread links, today I did identify the "big nut" which is at the bottom of the fuel strainer in the fuel tank. Unfortunately, the opening in the under-body providing access to the tank output and strainer, is only just bigger than the nut, and the way my tank is sitting I could not get a socket into it, much less remove the strainer. At this stage I can only kick myself for not asking about this before I put the tank back in, and closed it up. As there does not seem to be any obstruction to the output flow of petrol, I will leave well enough alone for now!

But again, I live-and-learn. Many thanks for the help.

iank :cya:
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Fri 05 May, 2017 9:27 pm

iank wrote:Many thanks for the links. They contain alot of enlightening info. I will try to get time today to have a better look at the bottom of the tank, and hopefully remove the strainer.

I wonder if you would mind answering me a (probably dumb) question - how does one go about creating then pasting a link (such as you have just done for me) into a forum post. I just have not worked that out, and cannot find anything in the FAQs.

cheers, iank
Quite easily: open the post you want to link to - open it in a new window. Then select and copy the internet address, including http://www. Then in YOUR post, click on the button labelled URL, which places in your post, at the cursor position,

|

The | indicating the cursor position. Just press <CTRL>V to paste the address you had copied (or right click mouse where the cursor is, then select 'paste' from the pop-up menu.

The URL button doesn't work for me when I use my phone to post, so I just type out then I paste the address, then I type out
Emad,
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Sat 06 May, 2017 10:12 am

Thanks, Emad. I guessed it had to be pretty simple to copy and paste links, I was just a bit too "simple" to work it out myself.

Your directions worked a treat when I tried them just now. Thanks again - the learning continues!!

iank
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Sat 06 May, 2017 11:03 am

Just doing my tiny little bit on the Forum. There'll be others here who will share their considerable experience and go out of their way to help - amazing generosity. And this has been happening for 15 years on here!

Enjoy.

I do.
Emad,
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1975 350SLC Astral Silver (725) / Blue (2012, 284,900 km - present.... a real Benz, getting better and better)
1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Sat 06 May, 2017 3:46 pm

Mercmad wrote:No need tpo bleed as the pump should run for a few seconds as you turn the ignition on . it may crank for a few minutes before firing as the pressure builds up. .You should invest in a cheap fuel pressure gauge which you connect in the line between the cold start valve and the the fuel rail. You want to see 30PSi fuel pressure . If not ,post up the question as it's likely that the pump will be stuck and they are expensive. .
Hi Mercmad, Further to your suggestion regarding connecting a fuel pressure gauge, I have attached a photo showing where I think you are suggesting the gauge should go. Can you confirm whether I am on the right track, please?

iank
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Mercmad » Sat 06 May, 2017 7:40 pm

Yep, there is a relay working through the ECU,on a timer. While the engine cranks it the pump runs,as soon as the engine stops turning(no tach signal) the realy opens and the pump stops.

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by Mercmad » Sat 06 May, 2017 7:42 pm

iank wrote:
Mercmad wrote:No need tpo bleed as the pump should run for a few seconds as you turn the ignition on . it may crank for a few minutes before firing as the pressure builds up. .You should invest in a cheap fuel pressure gauge which you connect in the line between the cold start valve and the the fuel rail. You want to see 30PSi fuel pressure . If not ,post up the question as it's likely that the pump will be stuck and they are expensive. .
Hi Mercmad, Further to your suggestion regarding connecting a fuel pressure gauge, I have attached a photo showing where I think you are suggesting the gauge should go. Can you confirm whether I am on the right track, please?

iank
Yes,that the place for the gauge, you won't need the cold start valve to operate ,so used the rubber hose to connect the gauge .

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Sun 07 May, 2017 6:00 pm

Once again, many thanks MercMad for sharing your (considerable) knowledge. I now have a better understanding of the performance of the fuel pump during the start procedure. I also am confident of where to fit a fuel pressure gauge should I decide to buy one. At present I am not quite to that stage, as a few bench tests today have revealed that whilst the fuel pump runs freely (powered by a "bench" battery), it is not pumping fuel thru itself at all. I have a couple of thoughts "up my sleeve" (or where ever I keep thoughts) to try in the next day or two. I'll post the results of those after they have been pursued.

(head scratching) iank :Doh:
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Sun 07 May, 2017 8:01 pm

Iank,

When you had the pump on the bench you mentioned you removed the pump head and turned the shaft carefully to free the motor (I hope I have that correct). It's not pumping now. Could it be that the shaft is not turning the impeller? Was there a key to keep the impeller turning with the shaft that may have fallen out, or is it splined onto the shaft?
Emad,
TheMadRacoon
1975 350SLC Astral Silver (725) / Blue (2012, 284,900 km - present.... a real Benz, getting better and better)
1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
1974 280E Reed Green (860) / Bone (1993, 316,700 km - 2004, ~490,000 km and still A1)

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Sun 07 May, 2017 8:44 pm

Hi Emad, You are correct in your recollection of what I said I did with the pump. You are also correct about there being a (key type) pin that locates the rotor. That is ok and still in place. As it sounds like you have some experience with this pump, you probably know that the "ring" type "stator" (for want of more correct terminology) is actually somewhat eccentric internally, thus providing a variation in the rotor clearance with it as rotation occurs. [ There are no locating pins/lugs/etc to accurately position the stator once having disassembled the pump, so it is a bit "hit and miss" to tighten it all back together with what one would consider, acceptable clearances.]

Now that I am where I am now, I am wondering if I accidently turned the stator over, which would alter its characteristics compared to the fuel inlet and outlet ports. (I hope this all makes some sense to you - I am not explaining it very well).

Tomorrow I will try the stator up the reverse way, and see what happens. I've got nothing to lose now! Thanks for the comments. I'll keep you posted.

iank
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Sun 07 May, 2017 10:03 pm

I understand what you're saying. I know a little about pumps, alas nothing in detail about car ones! I was just sleuthing!

Good luck. Following with interest!
Emad,
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1975 350SLC Astral Silver (725) / Blue (2012, 284,900 km - present.... a real Benz, getting better and better)
1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Mon 08 May, 2017 5:50 pm

Well Emad (and possible others interested) my fuel pump test today has left me a bit uncertain, but I thought I'd report anyway. I had NOT placed the "stator" on upside down it turns out. In fact, having turned it over and retesting, the pump very strongly tried to push the petrol in my "input hose" (about 1 metre of clear 10mm fuel line held up at the remote end) back up, away from the pump input.

That certainly convinced me that the way it was now assembled was definitely incorrect. So I pulled it apart and reinstated it all the way I had it originally. Now (for the first time during my tests) as soon as I held the petrol feed line up to allow fuel to reach the pump input, even without the pump running, fuel spilled out of the outlet. Powering up the pump immediately resulted in it rapidly emptying the input hose through the output. I (think) I can count that "success"??

My obvious lack of complete confidence stems from me now not knowing why it didn't test that way yesterday. I can only think of 2 possibilities - (a) I had removed (and replaced) the little non-return valve in the output coupling, to check it wasn't jammed. I don't think it was, but the very light spring in it made it a little difficult to be sure. (b) Perhaps yesterday I didn't hold the petrol feed line up quite high enough to definitely feed sufficient petrol to the input. [Sounds doppy, I know but I am "grasping at straws"].

It may be a few days before I can progress the "pump saga" further, but when I have done some more, I will definitely post my findings.

Cheers, iank
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Fri 12 May, 2017 4:37 pm

I am back . . . . . .The fuel pump saga. Following the successful (I hoped) bench test the other day, the pump is now back on the car. A fresh 5 or 6 litres of fuel in the tank, and testing continued.

The good news is that I now have a plentiful supply of fuel at the injector lines, but bad news the engine still didn't fire.

However, what I have now observed (since I have petrol supply) is that it looks like just about each injector hose is leaking. So I have started to remove the feed monifolds, etc in preparation for replacing each injector hose. [ Please jump in if you have any experienced tips as to performing this task.]

Having now removed only the RHS injector feed manifold (pipe), I note that each of the injectors is "loose" in its (rubber?) mount. Does this sound correct? I have zero experience with electronic injectors (have fiddled a bit with tractor & truck diesel injectors) so not sure what to expect. I am not keen to remove the injectors for a better look before getting some advice from the "forum experts" here.

Needless to say, I will get back to trying to find out why the engine didn't fire, after I fix the injectors.

Any help, as always, would be greatly appreciated.

regards, iank :smurf:
iank
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by CraigB » Fri 12 May, 2017 5:24 pm

Yep that is rally common for those hoses to leak and important to replace.

It is a long thread to read and it may have been mentioned - but i had the problem where the pump would work with ignition on but not continue after cranking. I put 12v direct to the pump, just using one of those jump start packs and it started fine. Apparently something can go in the computer that doesn't continue to send that 12v to the pump to keep it running. Fuel pressure guage would confirm. If it turns out to be the problem you can run a wire off the ignition circuit direct and everything will work fine - only risk is if say you have an accident and your fuel line gets ripped off or something, then it will keep pumping fuel after the engine has stopped turning. My searching on the inernet showed lots of people having done this though.
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Fri 12 May, 2017 8:40 pm

"Having now removed only the RHS injector feed manifold (pipe), I note that each of the injectors is "loose" in its (rubber?) mount. Does this sound correct?"

Those holders are replaceable. They won't be sealing well and letting air in (ie vacuum leak) to the engine which will cause either high idle or poor running as the fuel mixture becomes more lean. There might be threads on it here, but worth replacing while you're at it. MB Spares (check top of the forum home page for their number) might be able to help.

Also, I recall someone recommending use of the original / original type hose clamps which don't tear the rubber fuel hoses to the fuel injectors. The garden-hose type of worm-screw clamp is not recommended.

Might be a good time to put in that pressure gauge Mercmad recommended as you can rule out any fuel pressure issue before progressing further.

Well done on the progress so far.
Emad,
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1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Fri 07 Jul, 2017 6:23 pm

Well, my MB friends, here I am again, some 2 months after my last "update/query session".

I think it is time for an update, especially to those of you who have given me so much greatly appreciated help. I have now replaced all the injection system hoses, eliminating the many leaks that were threatening to "fuel" a "ring of fire." I have not replaced the injector seals (as suggested earlier), although I realise I may yet live to regret that. However, I figure with all new hoses, pulling the fuel ring down again will not be too difficult, if need be. I did use the recommended "screw" type clamps, in preference of the "snail" (garden hose) types. They went well.

Having put the fuel system back together - you guessed it - bloody engine still wouldn't start. Dead as a maggot, in fact. So much so that I guessed it had to be something really simple. Correct. The somewhat famous fuse No. 14 had chosen to fall apart. It was one of the alloy types, now replaced with 8 amp brass one. Everything "livened" up alot then. Fuel pump ran, engine showed "signs of life" (spluttering, sort of backfiring) but would not start. Basic static multimeter tests on low voltage sections of ignition all seemed ok. I then decided to remove the distributor to generally inspect it, and particularly check the Injection driver points, which I had never actually seen before.

Disappointingly (in one way) the 4 injector points were "like new", clean, dry,etc. As was the ignition point set. Going through this exercise involved me (re) checking the static ignition timing, etc, all of which checked "close enough" at least for a start.
Engine continued to refuse to start, with no obvious change to its (lack of) performance. Hmmm! - what now??

Perhaps the fuel pump was not producing anything like the required pressure - approx 30 psi?
Time to purchase and install that fuel pressure gauge suggested by Mercmad. Today I (temporarily) installed a 100 psi (full scale) gauge "Teed" into the Start Valve feed.

Well, some good news (I suppose) pressure building quickly to close to 30 psi. Phew - seems like the fuel pump is doing ok!!

Engine - no start, no change.

Then, finally a "break through". [This is where I reveal to you blokes what a "dummy" I can be! I do so in the interests of my next comments being a timely reminder to all who can so easily make the same, simple kind of mistake.]

I rechecked the positioning of all spark plug leads. - Yes, I know don't say it ! ! ! I had put leads 5,6,7,8 all around backwards - 8,7,6,5. How dopey can you get?
A quick correction with the result being a much nicer sounding engine - that still at present will not run! At least it starts firing while cranking, and a couple of times ran on for a few revolutions before dying again.

That is where I am at present. I intend to (re)check somewhat more thoroughly, the ignition system including the 2 resistors, although I have done so a couple of times with reading results pretty close to the 0.4 and 0.6 Ohms specified. (It is not very accurate using a multimeter on such low resistances, however.)

Well, I will keep at it. Just thought, in fairness, I should provide the forum with an update.

I'll report further as I find something to say.

Ian K
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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by TheMadRacoon » Fri 07 Jul, 2017 6:54 pm

Well done!

Been a while since I read the entire post, so maybe I'm repeating what others have said....

1. Do a search of "not starting" or similar in the 107 section of the forum, there will be plenty of pointers

2. Things to check for.... is the front-most spark plug on the passenger side "wet" with fuel? Might indicate a leaking cold dtart injector

3. If you get it running but it dies on pressing the accelerator, pull the hose from the inlet manifild to the MAP sensor...at the end where it connects to the sensor. Suck on it gently (this is with engine idling) and if there's no change in rpm then the sensor is faulty. Bosch in Germany do a factory recondition (not cheap but comes with a 2 yr warranty)

Sounds you enjoy tinkering, so Enjoy. Nothing feels as good as when it finally starts.
Emad,
TheMadRacoon
1975 350SLC Astral Silver (725) / Blue (2012, 284,900 km - present.... a real Benz, getting better and better)
1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
1974 280E Reed Green (860) / Bone (1993, 316,700 km - 2004, ~490,000 km and still A1)

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Re: My First post - Restoring a W107

Post by iank » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 6:05 pm

Hi all, especially TheMadRacoon, many thanks for the help as always. In short, having checked thru your "check list" and pretty much confirming those things were not the cause of my problem, I am now suspecting the exhaust pipe of being obstructed.

I did manage to get the engine running today with a little throttle, and it did keep running until I actually turned it off, but it was not "happy". With some help available tomorrow, I will check if both outlets of the exhaust are passing gas (so to speak). I suspect the left pipe/section of muffler is blocked.

Is the oval/flat 2 input/2 output device about halfway down the exhaust a Catalytic Converter, or just a muffler?? There is also another muffler(?) 2 in / 2 out close to the back of the car. This one is round, and about 18 -24 inches long. Can anyone tell me if there are known possible problems with (especially) Catalytic Converters, particularly becoming blocked/obstructed?

Progress is definitely being made - I can feel that I am now close!! Any help would be appreciated.

Ian K
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