The Radiators... Part 2

1971-1989: 280SL, 280SLC, 300SL, 350SL, 350SLC, 380SL, 380SLC, 420SL, 450SL, 450SLC, 450SLC 5.0, 500SL, 500SLC, 560SL
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AMG
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The Radiators... Part 2

Post by AMG » Fri 31 Oct, 2014 6:11 pm

Don't worry.... It's OK
I'm stoked I had a spare one today !!! :laughing6: :laughing6: :laughing6:

But then, you have to ask yourself - What kind of idiot would stock a brand new spare radiator for their 107??
Well it was a couple of years ago I was halfway into accumulating all the parts to do a 560 swap into Lurch.
Part of that deal was the radiator and lower support...

107 owners do not need to be told how expensive a 560 radiator is... (people have sold their first-born for much less)

So I kept it up on my mezzanine, thinking I'll NEVER need it. After all, I'd already replaced it in 2008 - 12 months after buying Stella. Everything always checked out fine.
You can see the original thread here:
The Radiators...

To my dismay this morning, when 'car shuffling' in the garage (today was supposed to be get started on replacing Front & rear rotors, pads & handbrake mechanism on Stella...) I went to put the jack under the car (it hadn't been driven for 9 days, and only swapped from one side of the garage to the other) and saw... coolant? wtf?
IMG_2771.jpg
Closer inspection revealed the culprit.....
IMG_2768.jpg
IMG_2774.jpg
Needless to say I'm a bit miffed at this.

I'm very thorough and somewhat 'religious' about cooling system maintenance on my cars.

I Always replace the coolant regularly with genuine coolant, I expected the Radiator to last a good while longer....

There are zero signs of corrosion. Hoses are good, everything else is ship-shape. Just goes to show if you look after the cooling system you can still experience issues.

Now, I got a quote for a replacement Behr (identical unit) and it's not exactly cheap, but FFS... 6 years and an o-ring brings a car to it's knees? I hope you guys all go out to the garage now, and have a real good look at your radiator.

I expected Behr / Hella to make a quality product. Clearly this is Bullshit. Do yourselves a favour and get some alloy tanks fabricated for the radiator if you have a leaky o-ring.

Glad I didn't buy it from the stealership back in 2008....

BTW, replacements are much cheaper now - they'd want to be too. PRC made & India. (Not south Africa like the last one I got)

wonder how long this one will last..... better be more than 6 f-ing years.
IMG_2775.jpg
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Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

CraigB
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by CraigB » Fri 31 Oct, 2014 9:53 pm

Yep - that stuff is a killer and not like it can be welded up etc.

So Joe is a W107 560 radiator a unique unit based on size etc? Different to sedans etc?
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

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AMG
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by AMG » Fri 31 Oct, 2014 10:02 pm

Yeah Craig... its post 09/1985 mechanical update.
The radiator changed from the vertical core brass tanked unit to a plastic tanked alloy crossflow style unit, integrated trans cooler. no oil cooler.

The hoses are different, the radiator mount is different as well. but the radiator support panel is the same, side rubber locating bushes are different...
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

CraigB
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by CraigB » Fri 31 Oct, 2014 11:30 pm

So post '85 380 W107 the same?
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

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Greg in Oz
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by Greg in Oz » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 2:26 pm

Craig,

Every 107 post '85 had the alloy and plastic crossflow radiator (however there wasn't a 380 after '85, only the 420, 500 and 560SL).

As Joe mentioned, prior to that final update all the 107s had an all metal (brass/copper) radiator with top and bottom tanks. Many also had the vertical engine oil cooler next to the radiator although many of the later Oz delivered 450 deleted the oil cooler and went with a wider radiator.

In every case the auto transmission cooler was integrated into the bottom tank (side tank for post '85).
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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markb
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by markb » Sat 01 Nov, 2014 3:57 pm

Greg in Oz wrote:Every 107 post '85 had the alloy and plastic crossflow radiator (however there wasn't a 380 after '85, only the 420, 500 and 560SL).

As Joe mentioned, prior to that final update all the 107s had an all metal (brass/copper) radiator with top and bottom tanks. Many also had the vertical engine oil cooler next to the radiator although many of the later Oz delivered 450 deleted the oil cooler and went with a wider radiator.

In every case the auto transmission cooler was integrated into the bottom tank (side tank for post '85).
Yeah, my July '85-build 123 CE...has alloy core, plastic top tank (with the dreaded plastic top-hose neck that snapped-off a few months back) and plastic bottom tank with auto cooler integration. My new replacement, interestingly is not stamped BEHR (except the box it came in !) and still has plastic neck with no strengthening-insert.

No complaints though, it's now done over 6k trouble-free Klms since, but the best part is JG arranged direct delivery to my Melbourne doorstep, in less than 3 hours of ringing him on a Monday morning :notworthy:
Current Fleet
1985 C123 280CE Midnight Blue with blue MB Tex (240k klms, Daily Driver 2010- )
Past Benzes:
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 White (2002-2003 project)
1971 W108 280SE 3.5 White (1999-2006 Unmolested original & sadly missed)
1987 S124 230TE Diamond Blue (2002-2007 Family cruiser)
1983 W126 280SE Champagne 106k Klms (Custodian in 2013)
1969 W113 280SL Champagne (Custodian in 2000)
1988 W124 300E Diamond Blue (2016 project)

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John Green
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by John Green » Sun 02 Nov, 2014 7:49 pm

Hmm, remember my post about the quality of tools these days. Well I are sorry to report that some of the major brand names and now also "not what they used to be". Last month we had a W123 300D radiator fail, popping the tank off the core within a week of installation, we suspected the engine was just over heating every day and had stressed it out. However when the replacement unit arrived from BEHR we could see that there was a manufacturing fault with an entire batch of them. The top tank was not crimped on correctly.

BEHR was brought out by Hella about 4 years ago and has been absorbed into the huge conglomerate that now includes brand such and Padgid and others. Nearly all product is made in PRC and yes quality is slipping. However...

The other brands are worse. The fact that something is now made in PRC is not the issue. It is the quality controls that the parent company are putting on the manufacturer and the other various company standards that are the issue.

None of this helps Joeb, but does show that the old saying of "they don't make them like they used too" is 100% correct.

BTW I have one German production W126 V8 radiator in stock if anyone wants it.
Inaugural OZBENZ national meet this September, all welcome to attend. https://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25165

M.B Spares & Service 14-16 Lyell St, Fyshwick ACT. Ph 02 6239 1099

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Greg in Oz
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by Greg in Oz » Sun 02 Nov, 2014 11:55 pm

I don't know if they are still available, but back in the mid 1990s when our 1980 300TD snapped the neck off the plastic top radiator tank, I replaced the aluminium and plastic radiator with an after market copper/brass one.

I have always had a preference for copper/brass radiators and my experience with them in my Mini, 350SLC and 500SLC is that they last around 30 years. At that age when they gradually (rather than catastrophically) fail due to the fins disintegrating and minor leaks, they can be repaired by having a new core soldered between the original tanks. This is exactly what I had done with the radiators for each of those cars.

As for aluminium and plastic radiators, my experience is a much shorter life, often catastrophic failure, and the inability to repair them.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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TheMadRacoon
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Re: The Radiators... Part 2

Post by TheMadRacoon » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 6:27 am

I recall a Mercedes ad explaining their philosophy back in the '80s: "Anything which is new must be better."

One of those relics we used to believe, like "People Trust Holden."
Emad,
TheMadRacoon
1975 350SLC Astral Silver (725) / Blue (2012, 284,900 km - present.... a real Benz, getting better and better)
1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
1974 280E Reed Green (860) / Bone (1993, 316,700 km - 2004, ~490,000 km and still A1)

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