Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

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450dude_74
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Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by 450dude_74 » Tue 25 Sep, 2012 10:49 pm

Hi all, i would like some feed back on Wheel size and vehicle dynamics for my 450SL.
The car is currently fitted with 16 x 8 e11 Zender turbo's wearing 225 50 faulken rubber. The wheels look good on the car as do several other styles seen in these pages.
My question is in regards to vehicle dynamics. The car has all new front end components and has been aligned but i'm not happy with its road manners wanting to track and follow the road.
I know the answer is to fit smaller wheels but has all this been discussed before.?
The factory offset is 23mm correct..? does the offset change when increasing rim width..? i would expect not. So how much of a problem will the et11 of the zenders cause.
Should i have the car aligned with stock rims fitted?
At this point i''l add that its only been on the road a week and i've not yet found nor tried a smaller wheel.
Last night i dropped the front tyre pressures from 34 to 30psi and the car feels a little more settled. I'm sure a change of tyre "could" magically change things but id like some feed back perhaps from those who've been there!

Cheers Andy

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Greg in Oz
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by Greg in Oz » Tue 25 Sep, 2012 11:37 pm

Stock "bundt" rims for the pre 1986 V8 powered 107s were 6.5" x 14" ET30 (30mm offset). Anything wider than the stock 205/70 tyres or rims offset further outwards (lower ET) will be at the detriment of straight line tracking and can cause "tramlining". I find the optional factory 7" x 15" ET25 "bundt" rims (also the size of the "manhole cover" style wheels fitted from 1986 onwards) fitted with 215/60 tyres to be quite acceptable however my 7" x 15" ET16 AMG Pentas with 225/60 tyres tramline slightly. My 8" x 16" ET11 AMG Pentas with 225/50 tyres result in more obvious tramlining. Wider wheels and tyres may look good and offer some additional cornering adhesion but the stock sizes intended for the car still give the best all-round feel.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
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201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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450dude_74
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by 450dude_74 » Wed 26 Sep, 2012 7:37 am

Sounds like i'll have to fit some different rims....:(
I do have a set of 15 x 7 ET 15 pentas. They are the real deal ATS rims but they need rolling. Two of them have had more hits than elvis.!
I like the look of these when they are cleaned up. The historic officers will like more too.

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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by ANF » Wed 26 Sep, 2012 8:04 am

You could try some 215s on your current rims - may make a small difference?
I find this useful when searching for tyre/ wheel sizes http://www.alloywheelsdirect.net/inform ... cedes-benz
Cheers

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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by John Green » Wed 26 Sep, 2012 9:56 am

Any modification will have a win-lose result. Read about this more here:

http://www.mbspares.com.au/Service/Modi ... sBenz.aspx

If you want to retian the look with the Zenders, then you will need to visit a good wheel aligner and get a non factory spec wheel alignment done to counteract the forces being applied by the extra rubber. As a general rule this will mean a little negative camber and more castor. End result should be that it will steer straight, but wear the inner edge of the tyres. Just another example of how any modification is a compromise..
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Beamer
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by Beamer » Thu 25 Jul, 2013 12:54 pm

Hi all, I have just sourced a set of 15" 15-slot "manholes" for the SLC. Can I use the same wheel nuts as are currently on my 14" Bundts, or will I need a new set?
Chris
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by AMG » Thu 25 Jul, 2013 6:51 pm

you will need a new set of bolts.

they are a ball seat 90mm overall length with a 40mm shank to the bottom of the ball seat.

ring the forum sponsor, go to the MB dealer or buy online and wait a couple weeks.

I'm pretty sure I covered this in another thread, so maybe searching will find it.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Beamer
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by Beamer » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 9:06 pm

Thanks Joe - very helpful info.

Apparently M-B don't sell the long bolts anymore and a new set from the parts suppliers around the place is going to cost me more than I paid for the wheels! Have found a few cheaper sets on Ebay in the US though which look like the way to go.
Chris
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Greg in Oz
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by Greg in Oz » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 9:35 pm

It's not absolutely essential that you use the bolts with the long head as they are really only to allow the heads of the bolts to be flush with the surface of the wheel (for appearance). The main issue is to ensure that you use bolts intended for 15" wheels of the "manhole cover" style. These bolts which were available with heads of various lengths (to suit wheels with different depth holes) can be seen in my photo in the post at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17225#p122157. Note that the bolts for the "manhole cover" wheels all have the same length threaded portion (40mm) and that this is longer than for "bundt" wheels (29.5mm) which in turn is longer than that for steel wheels (21mm). The bolts for the "manhole cover" wheels used on the late W126 and 107 still used bolts with a 40mm threaded portion, but had longer heads because of the deeper holes in those wheels (due to the lower offset of those wheels). Those bolts were similar to the log ones in the photo at viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17225#p122160
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Beamer
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by Beamer » Sat 27 Jul, 2013 10:13 pm

Thanks Greg - the M-B dealer was happy to sell me a set of shorter bolts, but again the price wasn't that cheap.

There are a few aftermarket (presumably) sellers offering the longer versions on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390630590155
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271246186514
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110881054316
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271142206313
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/390302644694
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261253371544

I have browsed enough wheel bolt ads now to last me for a very long time.

Has anyone had any experience of problems with the long bolts - heads shearing off, etc. - which from what I have read here and there seems to be the reason they have now fallen out of favour?
Chris
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by AMG » Sun 28 Jul, 2013 1:00 pm

I would only buy a reputable brand that supplies MB spec.

like H&R
http://www.hrsprings.com/applications/bolts

17mm head, 12x1.5 and your 40mm stud length to the ball seat.

forget ebay.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

Djenka018
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by Djenka018 » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 12:08 am

John Green wrote:Any modification will have a win-lose result. Read about this more here:

http://www.mbspares.com.au/Service/Modi ... sBenz.aspx

If you want to retain the look with the Zenders, then you will need to visit a good wheel aligner and get a non factory spec wheel alignment done to counteract the forces being applied by the extra rubber. As a general rule this will mean a little negative camber and more castor. End result should be that it will steer straight, but wear the inner edge of the tyres. Just another example of how any modification is a compromise..
I know this is about 2yo topic, however, as it is, it applies to some of my conundrums.

Could you please elaborate on bold text above?
My uneducated guees was not in line of that statement.

I have 8.5" x ET18 wheels and I not sure how to align the suspension.

Interestingly, earlier, I replaced the draglink (and did not do wheel alignement right away), I drove the car on stock steelies and stock gullideckels for a good few km's. Steelies causing the car to wander left-right (like toe issue) and there was less pronounced wandering on gullideckels. I now fitted 8.5" x ET18 and there is hardly any steering issues - everything seems balanced, no noticeable issues compared to 2 of my daily drivers with stock wheels. :think: Ofcourse, only scientific explanation (measures taken before wheel alignment) would shed some light but I see no point of wheel alignment if I am to shoot in the dark because I do not think stock specs apply any more.
Your input here is much appreciated.

thanks
'80 450SLC 3-continental

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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by CraigB » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 5:15 am

I would still take it to a proper suspension place because the will measure what you have now in camber, castor and toe-in and then feedback to you what they think that will do to your tyre wear down the track. You never know you may have lucked upon the perfect set up. If you cover minimal miles and don't mind replacing tyres then not an issue but I would still be curious what your current specs are. The alignment should cost you much less than the price of even a cheap tyre.

Regarding JG comments, I think you would find the factory will have designed the car so that on the standard width rim at standard ride height the contact with the road will be as consistent as possible and maximise tyre wear. There could be a myriad of variables that would explain your observations eg.how old were the tyres for your comparison and how round, you said the alignment was 'who knows' etc etc. I don't say this to be antagonistic or have a go, I just think the standard set up in good condition will maximise that tyre wear and 'ride' etc. But like on my AMG modded 126, if you want more grip from wider tyres etc then you stray from that, and my suspension was modded by them, but I still don't get perfect tyre wear - but I am cool with that particularly for the number of km that car does.
Craig Baulderstone
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Djenka018
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Re: Wheel sizes and offsets for the 107

Post by Djenka018 » Mon 03 Nov, 2014 10:43 am

Hi Craig,
Thanks for your input.

The wheels I had were brand new (steelies 195/75-14) or within the first 50% of their tread (gullideckels 205/65-15) with no apparent imperfections.

I admit that slightly larger 195/75-14 would have reduced the scrub radius by a milimetre or two (from stock 205/70-14) but as I understand suspension, and I hope I am not wrong, this would exaggerate the wandering effect that is induced with toe-in change (due to drag link change). That seem in line with experience as previously reported.

I am poised to have the current alignment measured before any change is made because I am very satisfied with the way the car handles with wider wheels (235/45-17 - Kumho KU39) and changed scrub radius (ET18). But before I go for alignment (and measure current setup) I should have some figures in mind where the new setup should be.

Can anyone recommend a wheel alignment place in Sydney that is interested in doing things outside of "by-the-book" curriculum?
'80 450SLC 3-continental

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