6.3 Grunt Analogy

1965 - 1972: 250S, 250SE, 300SEb, 280S, 280SE, 280SEL, 280SE 3.5, 280SEL 3.5, 280SE 4.5, 280SEL 4.5, 300SEL, 300SEL 6.3, 300SEL 3.5, 300SEL 4.5
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V8Finny
Zeppelin
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat 26 Apr, 2008 7:09 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Melbourne

6.3 Grunt Analogy

Post by V8Finny » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 8:54 pm

Benz forum people often ask how tough is the 6.3 really? I mean, its a 50 year old car.
We all know it was tough for it's time, but compared to what? E Type Jags??

Well I had a rent-a-car unannounced upgrade this week, signalled only by an unintentional burnout leaving the Adelaide airport car park..

My 'standard' Commodore turned out to be a SSV 6.2L LS3.

The thump from behind as the back end hunkers down and sends you flying forward with warp drive.....it leads to a phenomenon that I call "point and shoot" driving, where you idle around a corner, point the car where you hope to go, then hit the accelerator pedal and be where you pointed 3 seconds later.......

This feeling was all very, very familiar...then I realised.....this is how my 6.3 feels to drive.

I thought my nostalgia might be running away with me, so I had a look online;

Commodore SSV 6.2L: weight; 1,741 kg, Torque; 570 Nm (420 lb-ft) @ 4,600 rpm
300sel 6.3; weight; 1,765 kg, Torque; 500 Nm (369 lb-ft) @ 3,000 rpm

So if you want to know just how much wilder a 6.3 is compared to your W108, take yourself down to your local rent-a-car jigger and book in a day in an SSV and be ready to exercise your smile muscles!!
6.3 Litres of rusty, crusty, oily power!

69 W109 300SEL 6.3 #2462
68 W109 300SEL 6.3 #0952 - crushed by City of Monash
69 W108 280S - gone to pay for 6.3 rust repairs
52 Ford Pickup

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AMG
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Re: 6.3 Grunt Analogy

Post by AMG » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 11:01 pm

A lot of people knock the Crummydoor / Dunnydoor but I remember my quad 48IDA weber'd ssgrp3 and it was a metric sh*t-tonne of shove-in the back / neck-snapping fun.

the LS is a great example of evolution of simple design. efficient and cost effective.
Also happens to make decent power, thanks to modern engine management. Not somethign to set the world on fire without huge $ mods, but great in standard trim for what it is and what it costs.

I remember the first time I drove an R129 with AMG options. 300kW
phwoar.
compared to the 560 in the 107 and 126 it was like a normal 220kW and then this trebuchet-like delivery of obscene power in the higher rpms.
a faeces-eating grin if ever there was one. not a lot different down low though, with that 4 valve head.

Modern N/A 6.2 M156 is a great sounding but smoother power delivery. aggressive but not that low-down sledgehammer effect of the older engines.

I love the m100.
If only there were enough around to EFI and drop a 722.6 behind, and drop into something really cool, like a w111 coupe.....

pipedreams.... :occasion5:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Mercmad
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Model you own: w109
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Re: 6.3 Grunt Analogy

Post by Mercmad » Sun 29 Oct, 2017 1:48 pm

I still find it fun to wipe the clock of Ford and commodore owners on reasonably open stretches of road but those are few and far between in South east queensland and i need my license .Today though ,falcon, commodore and nw mustang owners can simply drop into firms like Elite autos and drive out with a mid boggling 1200 HP. My neighbor often gets these cars in for detailing as they are traded in for the latest toy . Some are just mental to drive, with pitiful traction etc ( a lot of them are utes...) but to hear a Ford modular V8 or LS series engine wind out is pretty interesting, imagine a hyabusa getting whipped, that's what they sound like. And the point? god knows, Not much fun driving to work or the shops and worrying about speeding tickets.

ibast
S Class
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Joined: Wed 16 Mar, 2016 7:18 pm
Model you own: w108
Location: Sydney

Re: 6.3 Grunt Analogy

Post by ibast » Tue 06 Feb, 2018 9:49 am

The latest with American v8 is to take them out beyond 400 cubic inches and tune them to about 7500rpm. Now as a Mechanical Engineer with a bent for engines I do find this interesting, but as a driver I struggle to see how it works on the road.

My previous car was an Alfa 147 that made it's power at 7000 rpm and had a 4.3:1 diff. Driving it normally on the road never saw more than 4000 rpm. Being willing to break the law by a sensible amount maybe 5000rpm and needing a track to use the full 7000 rpm.

So the 4.3 diff was about right to use 7000rpm.

Now can you imagine putting a 4.3:1 diff behind 8.0 litres of torque. Even with an old style torque converter you'd never get traction.

as a result they are putting in various diffs around 2.75-3.5:1, which gives them traction, but means they never see more than about 4000rpm on the road, even when they are being silly. This means they've spent a lot of money, sacrificed a lot of bottom end torque and made their car less reliable, for no good reason.

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Ivanerrol
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Re: 6.3 Grunt Analogy

Post by Ivanerrol » Tue 06 Feb, 2018 10:30 pm

Burnouts. The autosport dejour. You need all that HP which is not required on the road for normal driving.

I see these burnout competitions on UTUB or TV and wonder whats the attraction here :dontknow:

It must be a badge of honour to leave half of your expensive rubber on the road or is it another form of graffiti?
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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T-Modell
SLS AMG
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Re: 6.3 Grunt Analogy

Post by T-Modell » Tue 06 Feb, 2018 10:40 pm

Ivanerrol wrote:
Tue 06 Feb, 2018 10:30 pm
... is it another form of graffiti?
:laughing6: ... no this has been invented in speed-limited countries. Here we enter the Autobahn - if it's empty - at 60-70km/h and accelerate to vmax, as long as we wish. This doesn't work in Australia, as you have to stop accelerating after a few seconds, when you reach 110km/h.

So a burnout gives you the feeling of accelerating a long long time ... :whistle:

Better duck and cover now ...
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

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Ivanerrol
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Location: Melbourne

Re: 6.3 Grunt Analogy

Post by Ivanerrol » Tue 06 Feb, 2018 11:06 pm

T-Modell wrote:
Tue 06 Feb, 2018 10:40 pm
Ivanerrol wrote:
Tue 06 Feb, 2018 10:30 pm
... is it another form of graffiti?
:laughing6: ... no this has been invented in speed-limited countries. Here we enter the Autobahn - if it's empty - at 60-70km/h and accelerate to vmax, as long as we wish. This doesn't work in Australia, as you have to stop accelerating after a few seconds, when you reach 110km/h.

So a burnout gives you the feeling of accelerating a long long time ... :whistle:

Better duck and cover now ...
Thomas

Sigh :Doh:
I'd rather be driving down one of those autobahns you have in your country Thomas, cruising along at 160kmh+ speeds. It's great driver satisfaction - much better than a burnout. The old 6.3 was well capable of doing this kilometre after kilometre.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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