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BrettD
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Newbie looking to buy

Post by BrettD » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 3:57 pm

So after many years I'm hoping to move across from the VAG stable. I'm hoping this forum may help direct me.

With the kids grown up and all I need to carry pretty much is my golf clubs and buggy. My last vehicle was TDi and I don't think I can go back.I do like the look of C250 CDI with the twin turbo and AMG pack.

Any advice as to pro's and cons would be much appreciated. Current budget would allow the purchase of say a 2013/14 build vehicle.

Thanks

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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by CraigB » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 9:13 pm

I don't think it is the answer you are looking for (others will be able to help) but i hate depreciation and the scarey bills i hear for modern cars having something go out of warranty. I would be looking for something older, pristine, might chew fuel but if you look at the total bill after a few years..... Maybe a really nice W126SEC or W107 sl/slc - plenty room for golf bag. The right 107 might just reap huge appreciation depending how long you keep it.

Just thinking laterally!
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Ivanerrol
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Ivanerrol » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:01 pm

I'm looking at MB's in the 20 - 30K range at the moment.

Buying a contemporary Benz and keeping it a long long time for retirement purposes seems like a thing of the past.
These cars have a finite life cycle where the costs to fix problems will be in excess of the cars worth when that cycle time arrives.
You need to take in that these are cutting edge technology cars - installed in Benz's and then this technology trickles down to other marques and models.
They are an iPhone on wheels.

Word of warning. Anything with AMG on it will up the servicing costs considerably :naughty:

Not like the old W124's W126's or W202's.

Having said that if you are only plan on keeping the car to a maximum of 150,000K's then I see no issue other than slightly more expensive service costs.

2010 and 2011 diesels have issues with the injectors and there is no buying these cars without checking to make sure the upgraded injectors have been installed.

Otherwise people I know with the 250 diesels seem to be happy with them.
There are issues - but keeping strictly to service intervals at either a stealership or qualified independent Mercedes Specialist is essential.
There are regular computer firmware and software updates done at nearly every service.

After doing my research I will not be buying a petrol engined four cylinder. I will be be after a normally aspirated six - preferably with out direct injection. - But that's me.

I have friends with W204's, W205's and W212's with the 250 CDI engine they are all happy with them. But bear in mind these people buy new and either get rid of them at the end of the lease or change out after 50 - 60 thousand K's.

The best place to get one of these cars is a Star Marque Certified stealership - get one for peace of mind. You will know the services are done and all the software and firmware will be updated to the latest spec.

As Joe mentioned. The depreciation on these cars is horrendous. Buying one just out of lease is good. There are literally hundreds of M.B. just out of lease cars on the market - you have a massive range to choose from. Next month there will be even more after the June Tax cycle.
Prices will be very competitive. If you follow all the ad sites you can see some cars being sold privately are being advertised for months and months before selling often nowhere near the prices advertised.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Ivanerrol » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:22 pm

M.B. Contemporary diesel engines.

These engines are engineered to very high tolerances - mainly to get around malicious emission regulations.

There are sophisticated computer control's
Stop start technology.
Very sophisticated exhaust emission equipment designed to pass emission tests - as opposed to engine reliability.
Direct fuel injection.
Turbo technology as opposed to supercharging - turbo-ing is cheaper equipment than supercharging.

Side effects.
Larger AGM expensive batteries that must be replaced as soon as they get a little age in them.
Exhaust gas re circulation systems must be regularly serviced or renewed to avoid unpleasant foreign objects or items being thrown into the turbo's.
Direct fuel injection has been linked to whats termed black death - although Benz's have been relatively not as affected as other marques.

The side effects are largely negated by servicing.
Expensive batteries replaced at closer intervals, EGR valves and tubing closely inspected and replaced at the sign of imminent failure, changing highly specced engine oil at closer than recommended intervals.
Firmware and software updates keeping ahead of technology problems.

Having said all that.
Problems in contemporary diesels post 2011 are reportedly at a quite low percentage - as based on forum overseas experience.

Benz produced 2.4 million W204's. If they were a lemon then we would be reading about it.
The W205's reputedly are on par with the W204
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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Starman
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Starman » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 7:58 am

I always buy Mercs at 2-4yo. Official dealers will give you the balance of the original warranty PLUS another two years full MB warranty on an approved pre-owned Merc. They will often include a Nav update and do the next due service as well. I reckon that's a pretty good deal.
The new Mercs really are fantastic to drive, but you can't really keep one for life as mentioned below - some bits are too expensive to replace and let's face it the new cars are often better with more tech and features.
I still grin every time I drive mine.
Total cost of ownership for my E is about $1200/month, not bad when owning a Holden Commodore is rated at $1000/mth.
Buy, drive, enjoy.
W212 E400 Avantgarde
W211 E500 Elegance sold
W202 C200 "the Tank" sold

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 24 Jun, 2017 5:05 pm

Starman wrote:Total cost of ownership for my E is about $1200/month, not bad when owning a Holden Commodore is rated at $1000/mth.
I bought a new W209 CLK and a new Subaru outback 6 cylinder Premium at the same time.
Even though the Benz was 35% more expensive on the road the total cost of ownership over the 4 years I had them worked out nearly the same.

The trick is picking the model which wont have the most drastic depreciation.

To The O.P. make sure you shop around.
I almost hopped into a 2012 C300 today. Just over 30K kilometers. As I was Umming and Erring over it the price was coming down by the thousands.
There's a lot of stock out there.

If you are not fussed with a roof then there are more bargains to be had - no one want one without a roof.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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AMG
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by AMG » Sun 25 Jun, 2017 1:48 pm

I just realized I deleted my earlier post by mistake.
After re-reading the other posts, I'm inclined to agree with most of it, but I'll also add that the "right" Mercedes to buy is the one sitting on the dealer forecourt with an approved pre-owned listing in it. - as the balance of new warranty + extended warranty is available, and the vehicle has a documented service history.

I got my father into a 2013 w204.003 and it's a very nice car - loaded with options as it was a dealer demonstrator sold with 2000km. can't complain about that. But I was quite picky - there were a LOT of 204's on the market, and the 205 was not far away at the time. Depreciation was absorbed by the stealership - well most of it was. It's still lost about 30% of it's purchase price in 2013 though.

I'd buy a well-maintained w204 or a w205 diesel without any serious qualms - so long as I could do a detailed check on the service history, and the car myself.
But I'd also preface that statement with 'applies to any' prospective purchase - regardless of model or manufacturer.

If you're not familiar with a particular model or thr Mercedes brand then the absolute best thing to do is get a Pre-purchase inspection done by an independent mercedes-benz specialist. It will be the cheapest bill you ever get on a Mercedes-benz - even if you end up not buying it.

I think the 205 is a big departure in styling and is more modern, but I dislike the 'ipad' aftherthought on the dash. That is a personal preference thing.

an E class 212 facelift car would also be nice, but the styling is polarizing - some like it, some think it looks like a 10 year old honda or a camry from the rear. But the E class is a lot 'quieter' than a w204 C class and is a more 'mercedes' ride - by that I mean superbly refined, as in the traditions of past models.

But then I have to admit - after driving the 204, I get in the 124 or the 201 and the comfort level is MILES ahead. Especially in the 124 coupe.

It's not that I don't appreciate the 204 - it is a fantastic car, but you just cannot compare it to the older models which just feel far more solid and have a more traditional character about them - in an evolutionary sense, rather than 'revolutionary' which is the projection the w205 model range is attempting to define.
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Starman
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Starman » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 9:16 am

Sounds like my view is pretty in-sync with that of user AMG. MB really have got with the program in the last few years in terms of pre-owned. Makes me one happy camper let me tell you...
W212 E400 Avantgarde
W211 E500 Elegance sold
W202 C200 "the Tank" sold

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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by BrettD » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 1:15 pm

Wow..I'm trying to take all comments on board, and thanks for the different opinions.

From what I've seen, and the comments I will definitely be going with a pre owned MB dealer.

Still to decide on what I want though.. no rush.

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Starman
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Starman » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 5:08 pm

Ok BrettD, good stuff. The trick with pre-owned MB is to know what you want, so you are ready to pounce as soon as a suitable car comes up. I spent a good year figuring out I wanted a W212 update sedan, yes a whole year. Toyed with many ideas in the mean-time ranging from AMG to SUVs.
Sounds like you are a golf-club wielding, downsizing, maybe diesel kind of guy? First question might be around whether your driving habits would support diesel, ie if you don't drive regular highways, or tow the QE2, then forget about diesel.
Other questions for you may include;
- will you need room for grandkids?
- dog(s)?
- do you like sporty features? Cornering quickly?
- self-maintained or dealer or independent service?
- budget for purchase and for servicing
- mileage/driving style
- key features you need?
Easy huh?
W212 E400 Avantgarde
W211 E500 Elegance sold
W202 C200 "the Tank" sold

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Ivanerrol » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 6:47 pm

More stuff to confuse you :whistle:

Private buyers are often trying to offload their end of lease vehicles.
They have gone down to the stealership to do a changeover to a new model and have been shocked by the low price offered for their tradein.
That's when they hit Carsales or Guntree with a price for their car where they think they can recoup some of the price differential between the trade in offer and what they think the car is valued at - often they are in the red on the residual value.

So...... This works in your favor. And is why it takes time finding exactly the right vehicle for you at the right price and right condition.

Most cars are financed. Getting finance on a private sale second hand car is a little difficult. You walk in with ready funds, consequently a private seller is ready to negotiate.

That's why you keep a track on all cars for sale for a month or more on carsales, Guntree ebay etc. I keep a database.

Carpoint (Carsales subsidiary) lists the length of time the ad has been listed. They also display a dealers name and contact details - unlike carsales where there is some sort of coded contact or phone code.

Private cars over $20,000 on ebay are often by sellers who are desperate to sell. You see ad details such as : "bought new vehicle this car needs to go"

If you see a vehicle you like and think that the price a seller is asking is a little too much then try and wind your way around to the price that was offered as a trade in. Offer them $500.00 more - this often seals a deal. Even better if you have some $100.00 bills in your hand.

My rule of thumb is. A private sale of a vehicle that is priced between 20 - 30 K$ should be more than $ 4 - 5K less than a Star Marque car drive away price.

A tip. Stay away from 2007+ red cars unless you want to get into a bargain situation.
(A) they are hard to sell.
(B) the paint has been known to fail - particularly on the plastic bumper areas.

Another tip.
There are cars with white leather interiors - it looks great after it's been detailed. One week of ownership and you are looking for the Leatherique. If you let it go and get dirty you'll spend a week trying to get it clean.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Ivanerrol » Tue 27 Jun, 2017 4:27 pm

More stuff to ponder.

Since I'm in the market for something much the same as the O.P. I'm putting in the hard yards of research into reliability and potential problems.

Two more issues I've run across


Euro manufacturers striving to keep the emissions down due to onerous regulations have been putting small engines with multiple turbos running very hot temperatures.
This is all very good in the European type environment where the ambient summer temperatures are less than 30 degrees with a relatively higher humidity.
Running these engines is summer temperatures where the ambient is above 30 degrees - 40 degrees with quite low humidity doesn't do them any good.
Think W.A. and country south eastern states - or Arizona for example.

This issues is not confined to M.B. however it's been noticed in the A class 250's

M272 and M273 engines post 2008 suffered some big end bearing issues. One supplier of these bearings were a little slack in their tolerances and due to the aforementioned practice of running engines at high temperatures these supplier bushings cause an issue.
While starting the engine there maybe a "Donk Donk, Clunk Clunk" noise from the engine for a few seconds.
In the U.S. if you have an engine with this problem then the stealerships will remove the engine, the sump and replace the big end bearings and while they are there the con rod bushings - at MB cost. There's a TSB regarding this.
Allegedly there are only a relatively small amount of engines which have this issue.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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Starman
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Starman » Wed 28 Jun, 2017 8:01 am

Almost all cars will fail to meet their advertised fuel economy nowadays. Mine is listed as getting 7.1 combined and I measure it at just over 9L/100. Still craps all over my V8 though, and with more power and torque. I think the reason is they test them using the start-stop activated which can make a difference to city numbers. I find using E (Economy) transmission mode cuts fuel by 10-15% compared to Sports mode, but I don't use the start-stop for obvious reasons.
W212 E400 Avantgarde
W211 E500 Elegance sold
W202 C200 "the Tank" sold

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Ivanerrol » Wed 28 Jun, 2017 6:05 pm

Starman wrote: I find using E (Economy) transmission mode cuts fuel by 10-15% compared to Sports mode, but I don't use the start-stop for obvious reasons.
The US EPA plus various US interested party study groups did extensive research into stop start.

Their results indicated that in real world driving no more than $50.00 per year would be saved with no real reduction in emissions.
Then the alleged savings were offset by
(a) the extra $200.00 per vehicle it would cost to implement the system (passed on to the buyer)
(b) The stop start system required a larger battery capacity - backwards to AGM. Battery needed to be replaced at more frequent intervals.
(c) The yearly increase in vehicles on the road offset any alleged emission reduction.
(c) More technology to go wrong.

The US EPA is very conscientious and a little bit fanatical so if they had justified a reason to introduce or mandate stop/start in the U.S. they would have. - Particularly in California and L.A. with its constant temperature inversion climatic conditions.

Doing the MB rounds. Stealership staff either Sales or Technical are less than impressed with the stop start feature. Officially Alles Ist Gut
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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ngruzevs
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by ngruzevs » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:13 am

Battery in our MK7 Golf GTI recently failed after 3 years. When removing it, noticed battery had a big bulge on the top, so much so it was no longer square. $400 later I'm unimpressed with technology (stop/start) and increased replacement costs.
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BrettD
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by BrettD » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 3:01 pm

Ok, so I am test driving a MB pre owned C250 CDI W204 on Saturday.

Is the W204 much different to the newer W205 as far as features, engine, etc? I expect price wise it will be quite a difference.
I think I'm set on the 204.

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Ivanerrol
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Re: Newbie looking to buy

Post by Ivanerrol » Fri 28 Jul, 2017 11:27 am

I'd get a W204 purely for the depreciation factor.

I have just bought a 2009 W204 C280 with the lot - 40K's up for 23K$. - This car was North of $105K new.

Yesterday I looked at a 2009 W204 with 20Ks up - C200 Kompressor - It's like new - drives like new and has never had anything in the boot or back seat seller wants $22K - a bargain (except it's red).

If you are in Melbourne. There's a lady in Templestowe with a 2011 W207 E class coupe 250 CGi petrol - 50K's excellent condition - looks like new - she wants $30K - no stop start.

Just be wary of the 2010 - late 2011 diesels. They had faulty injectors. These should have been changed out.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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