W140 S-Class 6.0L Motec injection (Project)

[Old School S Class]

Hello all!
I have a project I am very excited about that I thought may interest some fellow Mercedes and in particular W140 enthusiasts.
As such I have decided to create a thread here on OzBenz to update as things progress.

First off a little history about the car and how I came to decide on this crazy venture.

As a lover of Benz's my favourites were the 80's models, especially the V8 S-Class.
Until I picked up the W140 a W126 560Sel had been the Benz I'd loved the most but had unfortunately had to sell.

Then in 2015 I saw an ad for a 1994 S420 for sale just around the corner from my home.
It was cheap which was at that time the only type of second car I could afford.
At first glance the paint job wasnt great.
It appears the previous owners used a scourer to remove some tree sap from a panel and had scrapped paint of the bumper at some point.
It had over 200,000km's and a lot of little issues such as non functioning electrics here and there, a ripped up interior and some mechanical problems but it was drive-able and so I took it for a test drive.

Despite its issues the car was like nothing I had driven before.
The comfort and ride were amazing! And it had such a presence on the road.
The only way I could describe it would be a luxury tank.
Ive driven many old and new cars and nothing feels the same as the W140, it really is a pleasure to drive especially on open highways!

I fell in love and despite the many things I had heard about the W140 S-Class being a money pit I paid the $4,000 the guy wanted and the tank was mine.

So was it a money pit?
In a word YES.
New windscreen wiper blades which come only as a full new wiper set up alone were over $300.
There was a small module for the heater that was another $300 plus dollars and these were just the small ticket items.
I'm not sure what Ive spent, replacing transmission, fixing bits and pieces here and there.
There was issues that took various attempts to hunt down and repair.
Luckily John and Chris at MB spares in Fyshwick sourced me parts where possible and helped keep the car running.
As a guess I'd say the $4,000 car was closer to $10,000 by that stage.

That said when the tank was running it was all worth it and I used it (and enjoyed it) as a daily driver for around 2.5 years.

As mentioned it had a great presence on the road but in a way it felt like a fallen champion.
It needed to return to it's former glory.
And this is where the next phase of the journey began.

I started by returning to MB Spares to purchase a set of AMG rims that I thought would suit the car.
I also inserted a multi media stereo and some TV screens in the head rests to entertain the kids while I enjoyed a highway cruise.
For the real audio visual enhancement I replaced the exhaust with a custom straight pipe twin exhaust so I could hear that M119 V8 and you could see the twin chrome tips sticking out the back. (The original twin exhuast was hidden).

In spite of the lack lustre paint job she looked much better especially after adding some lowering springs for a meaner stance.
For handling some Eibach springs removed some of the roll around corners.

The issue now was that the grand machine would pull up at lights and attract the attention of young fellows driving worked Commodores and they would leave me and my 2000kg in their rear view mirror.
This would not do!
I needed more Horsepower and more torque!

I'm not a mechanic so the best idea I could come up with was to add a supercharger with a cold air induction kit.
I reached out to John at MB Spares with my idea and he had a much better one.

He suggested we take the V8 from the S500 5.0L W140 and bore it out to 6.0L.
Apparently with the crank/rods from a 560sel this would be doable.
We also ad in MoTech injection.
Along with that we could also take the 5 speed transmission from the S500.

John was able to source a Japanese spec s500 with around 100,000km's which now sits in my garage.
On Tuesday she will be stripped of the engine, trans, interior and various other parts we need and the project begins.

I'm not sure how long all this will take but once things are done I will post a video of the tank.
I'm sure it will sound like a lion roaring across the jungle!

BUT that wont be all.
We will be transferring a lot of the interior to the tank from the donor car and I am considering getting whole interior custom trimmed.
Possibly in the style of the newer Maybach's.

To top it off I will get her resprayed in the same Bornite colour though I am losely considering a wrap in army cameo to compliment the number plate "Panzer".

Exciting times ahead.
Former glory will be had and then some!
If you are interested feel free to watch this space.

P.S I'm going to attempt to post a couple of pics but that all depends on if I can work out how to do so.

[Old School S Class]

The Tank.


The donor car

I'm not sure if these images are visable so if you like you can follow these links for the pics.

The Tank - https://imgur.com/wcf7H0a

The donor car - https://imgur.com/3XMBvfn

[CraigB]

Welcome and thanks for the story - look forward to updates, including getting the Motec happening.

I think that maybe the images won't work until you've done 5 posts and had them approved. Couple of quick posts here and there and you will have that. Meanwhile the links worked fine.

[T-Modell]

Hi (what's your name btw),

great story to read! As I developed into a "let's start a little project and make a crazy one out of it" - Expert, I'm looking forward to your progress.

What I don't understand: Why do you transfer everything from the donor car to your car and don't just use the donor car? Are the motor and interiour the only good pieces of it?

Regards and good luck
Thomas

[CraigB]

It could be that it doesn't have the right paperwork - you have to jump through hoops to import a car to drive but easier if just parts..... I forget all the right terminology for that! Also a car has to get Australian compliance..... Mercedes engineers know nothing about safety so if you want to bring a car into Australia you have to weld a couple of big bits of pipe inside the doors and that fixes everything..... Intrusion bars they call them!

[Old School S Class]

Thanks Craig.
I'll split my replies up in to a few posts and see if the images show up after post 5.

[Old School S Class]

Hi Thomas.
Thanks mate, it sounds as though you have walked this path before.
What model/s were involved in your journey?

I noticed in your signature you have a 500sl, I hope to own one myself some day.
That said they are getting very pricey, perhaps they always were but seem to just be going up and up since I started watching them on car sales the past 5 or 6 years.

Oh my name is Dave by the way.

Hi (what's your name btw),

great story to read! As I developed into a "let's start a little project and make a crazy one out of it" - Expert, I'm looking forward to your progress.

What I don't understand: Why do you transfer everything from the donor car to your car and don't just use the donor car? Are the motor and interiour the only good pieces of it?

Regards and good luck
Thomas

[Old School S Class]

In regards to why I didnt just use the donor car you guys have pretty much guessed correctly.
It is missing the doors, rear windscreen, ignition so has no key and other parts missing and seems to have had some wiring taken out.
Also yes it has no paperwork.

[tsharkey]

I love reading about projects, especially ones I know so little about.

Please keep us up to date.

[Old School S Class]

I love reading about projects, especially ones I know so little about.

Please keep us up to date.

Will do Sharkey.

[AMG]

How do you eat an Elephant?

One bite at a time.

[T-Modell]

Hi Thomas.
Thanks mate, it sounds as though you have walked this path before.
What model/s were involved in your journey?

Hi Dave,
forgot to answer your question ... if you have a LOT of time, you can read my W115-V8-Ute story here:
https://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21155
Pretty easy, just opened the hood and put the M117 in.

Best regards
Thomas

[tsharkey]

Pretty easy, just opened the hood and put the M117 in.

Even easier was driving it onto the boat in Buenos Aires

[AMG]

I thought that buying the pre-configured "Ute" was the easiest bit. all he had to do was hand over the cash

[Old School S Class]

Hi Thomas.
Thanks mate, it sounds as though you have walked this path before.
What model/s were involved in your journey?

Hi Dave,
forgot to answer your question ... if you have a LOT of time, you can read my W115-V8-Ute story here:
https://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21155
Pretty easy, just opened the hood and put the M117 in.

Best regards
Thomas

Thanks Thomas.
A W115 V8 Ute aye?
I definitely want to have a look at that thread.

[Old School S Class]

Small update on the project.
Hopefully I can get the images to post this time around.

Both cars were towed out to MB Spares and things are underway.

The 5.0L engine has been removed from the S500 along with the transmission.
Some good news was that the wiring loom that came out with the engine was an updated one as opposed to original which should save me some biodegradable headaches down the track.

The 5 speed transmission from the S500 will need some sort of module to be compatible with the S420.

Parts and pieces for the engine conversion are being sourced.

[CraigB]

They are a serious looking engine aren't they!

[T-Modell]

...Thanks Thomas.
A W115 V8 Ute aye?
I definitely want to have a look at that thread.

I hereby grant you permission to have a look at it

Good luck with the project! What I just wonder ... is it worth the "money" or wouldn't it have been "cheaper" to just get the car with the right motor? But that's me talking, wasting all that money on a project

Regards
Thomas

[Old School S Class]

They are a serious looking engine aren't they!

Oh yeah

[Old School S Class]

...Thanks Thomas.
A W115 V8 Ute aye?
I definitely want to have a look at that thread.

I hereby grant you permission to have a look at it

Good luck with the project! What I just wonder ... is it worth the "money" or wouldn't it have been "cheaper" to just get the car with the right motor? But that's me talking, wasting all that money on a project

Regards
Thomas

Wow that Ute is a big project mate.
I think we can safely say you wont drive past another in the street.

Thanks for the good luck wishes.
Would it have been cheaper to buy a % speed S500 for the project and I guess the short answer to that question is yes lol.
That said the 5L engine can slot straight in to the S420 so the only extra expenses are the module to accommodate the 5 speed transmission and the labour costs of the engine and trans swap.
All the conversion and custom engine work would still apply either way.

Also I bought the S420 with intention of just fixing it up for use as a daily driver.
The crazy ideas came later ha ha

[Old School S Class]

Just a quick update for anyone interested in how things are coming along.

John and the guys at MB Spares secured an old 560Sel engine so we have the crank and rods.
The conversion, refurb and build of the 6.0L engine is underway.

John also spoke with the guys at Autotech and we have decided to go with the Haltech 2500.
I almost fainted at the cost but without pain there is no gain! ha ha
Here is an image of the quote with all the particulars.
(Aside from maybe the injectors as we may be able to use the M119 injectors)



I'll post the numbers from the run on the dyno when the day comes and we can see what sort of performance we have achieved

[CraigB]

Thanks for sharing that, good to know what the numbers are.

so 560 crank and rods just bolt in? And also needs boring to get to 6.0? What size bore and what pistons will you use?

[AMG]

well it's a 100mm bore to make the 6.0, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say possibly the same pistons that Tim in NZ used on his m119 project.

I think from memory they were wiseco, but I could be wrong.

Technology has moved on in the last few years with specialist plasma iron coating and 'frictionless' skirt designs... but it makes things expensive.
Not that custom pistons aren't already expensive....

Taking 3.5mm out of a bore isn't going to leave much meat in the block so I'm guessing chilled cast iron liners or similar.
Sounds like it's going to be an expensive 400cc increase.

If it is possible to get the bore to 102.2mm then AMG pistons are already there - from m156/159 SLS-AMG. but I don't know if that is even doable in the block.

I can't even remember the piston pin height of the 560. I'd be tempted to leave the bore as-is if they're good and just use the appropriate pistons. a 5.6 4v is a lot more bolt-in and less effort than boring to 6.0 and looking for gaskets etc...

But a built motor is going to consume tens of thousands so whatever the goal is, it's doable if the budget is there to make it happen.

It will certainly rip - there is little doubt that it won't break driveshafts.... I wonder if the OP has spares? hope so!

[Michel]

Old School S Class (Dave) PM sent

[Old School S Class]

well it's a 100mm bore to make the 6.0, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say possibly the same pistons that Tim in NZ used on his m119 project.

I think from memory they were wiseco, but I could be wrong.

Technology has moved on in the last few years with specialist plasma iron coating and 'frictionless' skirt designs... but it makes things expensive.
Not that custom pistons aren't already expensive....

Taking 3.5mm out of a bore isn't going to leave much meat in the block so I'm guessing chilled cast iron liners or similar.
Sounds like it's going to be an expensive 400cc increase.

If it is possible to get the bore to 102.2mm then AMG pistons are already there - from m156/159 SLS-AMG. but I don't know if that is even doable in the block.

I can't even remember the piston pin height of the 560. I'd be tempted to leave the bore as-is if they're good and just use the appropriate pistons. a 5.6 4v is a lot more bolt-in and less effort than boring to 6.0 and looking for gaskets etc...

But a built motor is going to consume tens of thousands so whatever the goal is, it's doable if the budget is there to make it happen.

It will certainly rip - there is little doubt that it won't break driveshafts.... I wonder if the OP has spares? hope so!

Thanks for the interest AMG and Craig.
Ive had quite a few discussions about these things with John my mechanic but I'm not very mechanically minded so instead of sounding foolish wording my own understanding I'll send these questions over to John and get you the accurate answers.

That said I believe from discussions the crank and rods will just bolt in.

There has been quite a bit of research in to how we can actually pull this off.
The AMG manual covered some of the basics but John has had to do quite a bit of work to plan out the path to glory and source the various parts.

Get back to you guys with some details soon.

[Old School S Class]

Old School S Class (Dave) PM sent

Cheers, will check it now

[Old School S Class]

Hey guys.
I have some responses and info.

The crank from the 560 does drop straight in.
The bore will be 100mm.
Further info regarding pistons is pending pulling the engine apart shortly to have a look and decide.
There has been some consideration to going with 5.5L as it may be easier though that would be absolute last resort as I really want 6.0L....Either way John is able to source genuine MB gaskets.

Will update again once we have further info on the pistons and move on to the next phase.

Also John has also ordered this friction clutch pack to cope with the increased Hp and Torque.
https://www.raybestospowertrain.com/fri ... s/rcps-235

[CraigB]

Thanks for the update. Somewhere I saw different combinations of bore and stroke for modified M117 6.0 and thereabouts, including brabus etc versions of increased capacity engines. Can't remember where but I think there was up to something like 102mm and also one with longer stroke than 560 and so Brabus etc (whichever one) must have made their own crankshaft. All back in the day though and I am sure no NOS sitting on shelves anywhere! It will be interesting to see what you come up with sourcing pistons. And i Imagine the main thing of going to 6.0 over the 5.5 is the ratio of bore to stroke and 'squaring' up the motor, making more 'revvy' perhaps.

And I like the idea that it is like a 'tribute' to the old famous DOHC 6.0, regardless of problems, just not available but your making it. My youngest proposed the idea to me of getting a W201 and putting a M111 into it.... he can't afford a cosworth car but can he create a DOHC tribute to it on a budget. Some supercharged versions of the M111 put out similar hp to the earlier cosworths. Something to explore!

[Old School S Class]

Thanks for the update. Somewhere I saw different combinations of bore and stroke for modified M117 6.0 and thereabouts, including brabus etc versions of increased capacity engines. Can't remember where but I think there was up to something like 102mm and also one with longer stroke than 560 and so Brabus etc (whichever one) must have made their own crankshaft. All back in the day though and I am sure no NOS sitting on shelves anywhere! It will be interesting to see what you come up with sourcing pistons. And i Imagine the main thing of going to 6.0 over the 5.5 is the ratio of bore to stroke and 'squaring' up the motor, making more 'revvy' perhaps.

And I like the idea that it is like a 'tribute' to the old famous DOHC 6.0, regardless of problems, just not available but your making it. My youngest proposed the idea to me of getting a W201 and putting a M111 into it.... he can't afford a cosworth car but can he create a DOHC tribute to it on a budget. Some supercharged versions of the M111 put out similar hp to the earlier cosworths. Something to explore!

Ive found a few ideas and variations online from around the web with the 102mm bore for the m119 too but John says the walls will be too thin.
He mentioned having to get our own crankshaft custom made but the cost of that sat me back in my seat, over $10k.
Your spot on too mate, I want the aggressive sound that the 6.0L will create.....And that extra bit of power.
I figure if I'm going all in with the cost involved we have too go all the way. (Despite any speed humps along the way)

Sounds like your son has some great ideas....I love the shape of the 190E, the "Hammer" is one of my favourite Mercs from AMG of that era.
If you guys decide to go ahead with that project I'd love to see the end result....Or even better a running thread. :)
I had actually considered supercharging the M119 before going down this road.

[Old School S Class]

Small update on the project.

The transmission has been pulled apart and is being overhauled.

As for the engine, the hunt is on for pistons.
Had hoped to get lucky and find them online but no luck.
John has been speaking to a few overseas companies that have created pistons for 6.0L M119 engines in the past but it has been a long time since any of them have engineered them.
(From memory the companies were Wiseco and one other)

Either we will work something out with one of these companies or we will use a local company John knows to get some custom made.

Will update again once we source pistons and the build continues.

[Old School S Class]

Ok so we are moving forward.
Looks like John has found a place that can sort us out with custom pistons.
That seemed to be the hardest piece of the puzzle.

Also the transmission has been overhauled and returned to us inclusive of the heavy duty clutch packs.





AND I'm learning a bit as we go along which is great.

The engine build itself will still be a bit as the pistons are being created in the states etc but I'm starting to look toward the body and interior.
The rear guards need flaring as there is some scrubbing due to our lowering of the car.
Ive been doing plenty of thinking as to paint and any air brushing and after many ideas (good and bad) I think I'll just respray in the original bornite colour but get a lot of clear coats so it has that shiny wet look.

Interior I'll update as more ideas come to me and I find the right people to do the job.

[Old School S Class]

Hello guys.
It's been some time since my last post as our hunt for custom pistons was proving difficult.
In the end though things took a different path.

After some hunting John tracked down a gentleman that had both specs for wiseco custom pistons and also a couple of them still in the box.
When John told me the hunt was over I was very happy but when it rains it pours and it turned out that not only did John's contact have the pistons he had a whole M119 engine he had been working on for years and wanted to sell.

The gentleman's name is Tim La Trobe.
I had not heard of him but some of you may know of him from racing heavily worked Mercedes in New Zealand.

After looking at some videos and some dyno numbers it was a no brainer.
Tim had been working with these engines for years so just his experience with building these things was going to save us quite a bit of trial and error with our project.
Not to mention the numbers!
The engine he has puts out more HP and Torque than any naturally aspirated M119 I have ever been able to find online.

Below is a pic of the beast the engine came from and also a print out of the dyno numbers.
650HP and OH MY GOD LOOK AT THE TORQUE!!!






Once we get the engine we will need to make some adjustments to make it street legal using parts from the 5.0L.
It will be more of a sleeper (Nothing sticking out of the hood) but even then with the adjustments it is still going to throw out some serious force.
No doubt the power will now match the road presence of the W140.

As we stand Tim has removed the engine and packed it up.
It should be en route to Canberra on Thursday.

Next update should be progress of the installation.
For now here are a few images of the engine ready to ship.

[T-Modell]

Wow,
you're doing a project! Hats off ... and good luck for the shipping!
Thomas

[Old School S Class]

Thanks mate! I honestly can't believe my luck securing this engine.

[CraigB]

Is the NZ car going into retirement or is will he just build up a fresh engine? Great to get it all ready to go and I'm guessing race tested - plenty of life left in it.

[Honey500]

Just came across this project and did a bit of catch up. Love it, that thing will be a beast! Best of luck with the install

[Old School S Class]

Is the NZ car going into retirement or is will he just build up a fresh engine? Great to get it all ready to go and I'm guessing race tested - plenty of life left in it.

From what I'm told he is dismantling the race car completely as he is retiring from racing.

[Old School S Class]

Just came across this project and did a bit of catch up. Love it, that thing will be a beast! Best of luck with the install

Thanks Honey!
Cant wait to feel the torque when I put the foot down mate.

Will get some video up once we install

[Old School S Class]

Hello all!
After some delay the W140 project is moving again.

Picking up where I left off, the engine arrived from New Zealand safely just in time for a 3 month COVID lockdown and things were paused.
From there other things came up but at last the engine and transmission have been installed in to the car and the show goes on!

As expected we are solving pieces of the build puzzle as they pop up but all is going smoothly and shortly the baton will be passed over to an auto electrician.
A few of the current issues are:
1) My W140 throttle body is mechanical but the race engine throttle body is electronically controlled.
2) We need to find a good spot to place the race engines coil packs in the engine bay.
3) We need a good auto electrician that isn't scared away by the job. (John is on that now)

Also of note, it turns out the exhaust/muffler system I had installed was poorly built so we removed it and took the exhaust system from the S500 donor car and installed that instead.
Well half of it, I plan to either source something like a Rentech muffler with twin chrome tips to finish off the system....Or I will have something nice built locally.
Maybe even a whole new exhaust system as I really want to make the most of the sound that comes out of this beast of an engine.
I'll get on to that once we get closer to the car running again.

Anyhow that's where were at right now guys.
I'll leave you with some pics and check in with an update as soon as we have more progress.


The engine arrives safely in Canberra as we go in to lockdown.


Engine unpacked at MB Spares


6.0L engine slots in nicely





Trans also installed

[CraigB]

thanks for the update - looks great!

[Old School S Class]

thanks for the update - looks great!

No worries, thanks Craig!

[Old School S Class]

Wow another year has passed already.
Just wanted to pop in to say the project is still alive.

Several "issues" were solved last year and John located a great auto electrician in Damian from "Stay Tuned" in Canberra.
https://www.staytuned.net.au/about-us/

We ended the 2023 farewelling the beast on a tow truck bound for Stay Tuned and she has sat in queue there until now.
I was informed today that work is about to begin wiring everything up.
We also decided on installation of a Haltec Nexus R3 ECU.
https://www.haltech.com/product/ht-193000-nexus-r3-vcu/

This is going to add further cost to the project but we have come this far so there is no turning back now!

Once this is complete the car will be returned to John to complete things that were not possible while the car wasn't running.
Then it will be time to locate a sports exhaust with the right sound.
Finally it will then be sent back to stay tuned for a final tune on the dyno and then it will be mechanically complete and ready to drive.

Damian will be sharing some update photos from Stay Tuned as they progress and I'll share some here when I have them.

In the meantime here is a pic of the beast on her way to Stay Tuned.

[T-Modell]

Great news and thanks for the update! For my memory: you took the W140 5.0 Litre, increased it to 6.0 and had it tuned? What's the expected horsepower?

Good luck with your project and I'm interested how it turns out!

Kind regards
Thomas

[Old School S Class]

Thanks Thomas.
That was the original plan.
However we were having trouble locating some custom pistons for the build or even the exact specs to create some.
Then we located some via a guy in New Zealand that builds and races Mercedes with m119 engine.
Even better he was willing to sell us the exact engine we were trying to build, very lucky!

As for the specs and expected HP, there is a dyno print out from the engine from when it was in the previous car earlier in this thread.
Around 655HP!
Also some pics of the engine etc.

[T-Modell]

...As for the specs and expected HP, there is a dyno print out from the engine from when it was in the previous car earlier in this thread.
Around 655HP!

Wow, and I thought I had a fast car ... but no matter what: there's always someone with the longer .... acceleration phase

Regards and good luck
Thomas