220Sb values?

1961-1968: a.k.a "Finnie" or "Heckflosse" models
190, 190D, 200, 200D, 220b, 220Sb, 220SEb, 230, 230S, 250SE coupe, 280SE coupe, 280SE 3.5 coupe, 220SEb cabrio., 250SE conv., 280SE cabrio., 280SE 3.5 Cabrio., 300SE, 300SE coupe, 300SE conv., 300SEL
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thriftymaxx
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220Sb values?

Post by thriftymaxx » Sun 28 May, 2017 7:20 pm

So what if to say I have a great example of a late 59 220Sb W111 with an original 35,000 Miles, very minimal surface rust in about 3 spots, very slight pitting on chrome, immaculate interior, mechanically perfect. All major servicing has been carried out and put through NSW blue slip and has 12 months full rego.
Am looking for EOI as it's going on the market within the next month, so I need some useful and truthful valuations on what they have gone for previously.
Pics will be going up in the relevant topic with details soon. Any advice on what they are worth? This was the barn find of the century and details of the story will be provided when it goes up for sale.
Regards

Matt :occasion5:

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cuisses
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by cuisses » Sun 28 May, 2017 10:28 pm

From 5 years ago:

"Mercedes Benz 220Sb Finnie 1966
111 chassis, 1 owner, 43,000 miles, green colour, vehicle in new condition, red interior and auto transmission, RWC 6 months rego.
Inspection a must."

Asking price was 15-20K, sold I think for 14K. I know, since I passed the details on to the buyer. It is now a Canberra car. This one really is a time machine car. Certainly no rust of any kind. The "in new condition" was (and is) true. Original paint is perfect as is the interior.

This might give you some kind of guide.
David Williams

W108 280SE 4.5 (Papyrus White and Palomino)

thriftymaxx
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by thriftymaxx » Mon 29 May, 2017 10:42 am

Thanks for the reply! From the research I've done this was one of the earliest Australian deliveries of the finnie with the tombstone headlights, 08/1959 and I can't believe how smooth this car is to drive considering it's age. Will be trying to do some more research on value's before putting it on market and I'll put a couple of photo's up later today to spark some interest.....cheers!

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dynamike
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by dynamike » Mon 29 May, 2017 12:00 pm

While we're on the topic. I'm picking up a very nice unrestored '66 220Sb in the next few weeks. No visible rust, exquisite interior with undamaged original rubber mats, headrests in front and service history since new. Only rust is rear chrome bar and a couple of minor dents in left rear passenger door. Was advertised for $12,500 but got it for $10,500.

It has still got the original moss green paint on it which I'm not a big fan of. Would it be a crime to change the colour to something like pearl green?
1965 220 Sb Sedan
1962 220Seb Sedan (stripped for parts)
http://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23626

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Bartman4800
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 29 May, 2017 12:46 pm

dynamike wrote:While we're on the topic. I'm picking up a very nice unrestored '66 220Sb in the next few weeks. No visible rust, exquisite interior with undamaged original rubber mats, headrests in front and service history since new. Only rust is rear chrome bar and a couple of minor dents in left rear passenger door. Was advertised for $12,500 but got it for $10,500.

It has still got the original moss green paint on it which I'm not a big fan of. Would it be a crime to change the colour to something like pearl green?
It is never a crime Mike, it is your car after all.
If it was Australian assembled, such as my finnie, there do not seem to be any records for the colours anyway. Unlike the German assembled cars, the datacards were badly kept or filled in.
I thought about mother of pearl green as well, however my interior is grey which would be a bad match.

My car is also Moss Green, however the first owner has sprayed the roof (not the pillars) white.
A two tone with the Moss Green looks quite nice and I am still considering it for the future.

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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dynamike
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by dynamike » Mon 29 May, 2017 12:48 pm

Bartman4800 wrote:
dynamike wrote:While we're on the topic. I'm picking up a very nice unrestored '66 220Sb in the next few weeks. No visible rust, exquisite interior with undamaged original rubber mats, headrests in front and service history since new. Only rust is rear chrome bar and a couple of minor dents in left rear passenger door. Was advertised for $12,500 but got it for $10,500.

It has still got the original moss green paint on it which I'm not a big fan of. Would it be a crime to change the colour to something like pearl green?
It is never a crime Mike, it is your car after all.
If it was Australian assembled, such as my finnie, there do not seem to be any records for the colours anyway. Unlike the German assembled cars, the datacards were badly kept or filled in.
I thought about mother of pearl green as well, however my interior is grey which would be a bad match.

Bart
More concerned about originality and impact on value down the line. It's German built and assembled and clearly states the colour on the little badge in the engine bay.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
1965 220 Sb Sedan
1962 220Seb Sedan (stripped for parts)
http://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23626

thriftymaxx
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by thriftymaxx » Mon 29 May, 2017 1:12 pm

Beautiful! Thanks for the replies, now for some pics!
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by CraigB » Mon 29 May, 2017 1:19 pm

The only remark about colour change, is that to do the job properly so it doesn't devalue, all the doors need to come off, dismantled, wiring everything under bonnet etc and for someone to do it probably looking at your purchase price again. You will find someone who will say they will do it for less but risking it won't be as good as what you have now.

And the other car looks great. The paint work again is the killer and i i was buying I would be factoring in how much to at least get those noticeable bits fixed. Might be worth doing that first given the rest of the condition.

said in a constructive way not wanting to shoot anyone down!
Craig Baulderstone
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thriftymaxx
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by thriftymaxx » Mon 29 May, 2017 1:49 pm

The paint work isn't actually too bad, photos were taken this morning, there was dew on the car hence the illusion, will be taking more detailed pics when she goes onto market.

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Bartman4800
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 29 May, 2017 2:00 pm

thriftymaxx wrote:The paint work isn't actually too bad, photos were taken this morning, there was dew on the car hence the illusion, will be taking more detailed pics when she goes onto market.
The dash surround on your car has been replaced with a later model.
I have a 1960 Finnie (donor). The dash surround on early models is supposed to be 3 parts. There is a separate cover around the instrument board.
The early dashes looked like vinyl wrapped over cardboard with a bit of foam in between.
The dash like in the picture is an overmould in one piece. Good thing is, it is in pristine condition.

How sure are you that the mileage is what it says? Mine is low too, and the engine runs extremely quiet. But I can never prove it did not go round at least once....


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

thriftymaxx
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by thriftymaxx » Mon 29 May, 2017 2:14 pm

The mystery to me is what the VIN No: said (please have patience with me as I'm a newbie to all this!), It was complied here in 61 but the VIN has a 59 near the end so I have been getting conflicting stories off people locally(Usually around the table of knowledge.....)saying it's a 59 and saying it's a 61. I have the full history of the car and has been in my home town since new, miles are original so that may answer my question on what year it actually is. Any advice and knowledge is appreciated off you guys and will be listened to immensely.

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dynamike
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by dynamike » Mon 29 May, 2017 2:17 pm

thriftymaxx wrote:The mystery to me is what the VIN No: said (please have patience with me as I'm a newbie to all this!), It was complied here in 61 but the VIN has a 59 near the end so I have been getting conflicting stories off people locally(Usually around the table of knowledge.....)saying it's a 59 and saying it's a 61. I have the full history of the car and has been in my home town since new, miles are original so that may answer my question on what year it actually is. Any advice and knowledge is appreciated off you guys and will be listened to immensely.
Helpful in reading the chassis number: Note the post '59 model doesn't indicate the year anymore but the number only refers to the serial. http://heckflosse.nl/iden4.htm
1965 220 Sb Sedan
1962 220Seb Sedan (stripped for parts)
http://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23626

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Bartman4800
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 29 May, 2017 3:17 pm

Another indication of the build year is whether it has drum or disc brakes up front.

Front discs were introduced in 1963.

However, the front suspension could have been replaced (whole front axle is different in setup)
Another dead giveaway is the strut for the bonnet.
My '60 has a torsion bar bonnet strut. Later models have 2 springs.

Looking at the pictures yours is definitely not a 59 model.

Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

thriftymaxx
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by thriftymaxx » Mon 29 May, 2017 4:07 pm

dynamike wrote:
thriftymaxx wrote:The mystery to me is what the VIN No: said (please have patience with me as I'm a newbie to all this!), It was complied here in 61 but the VIN has a 59 near the end so I have been getting conflicting stories off people locally(Usually around the table of knowledge.....)saying it's a 59 and saying it's a 61. I have the full history of the car and has been in my home town since new, miles are original so that may answer my question on what year it actually is. Any advice and knowledge is appreciated off you guys and will be listened to immensely.
Helpful in reading the chassis number: Note the post '59 model doesn't indicate the year anymore but the number only refers to the serial. http://heckflosse.nl/iden4.htm
Well thanks dynamike you finally answered a debated topic me and my colleagues have been chewing over for a while, so with a VIN: A1110126000590 it's definitely a 60 onwards model, assembled in australia, so I take that it was complied in 61 would make it so!!.........Cheers for that.

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Tazzieman
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Tazzieman » Mon 29 May, 2017 4:48 pm

Nice example , and that interior looks pretty nice too! The seat material looks consistent with the Australian stuff? And the engine bay is presumably black?

I copied this off an Ozbenz post a while back.
The Australian made Ponton and Fintail sedans appeared visually identical to their German made siblings. The main visual differences inside were the locally made seats (which had a different appearance to the MB tex and cloth of the German models) and the locally sourced carpet and headlining. Under the bonnet, Australian built cars had the engine bay painted black, whereas German made cars had the engine bay in the same colour as the body. During body shell production, Australian assembled cars were stamped with their own 14 digit production number (usually on the bonnet slam panel in front of the radiator and prefixed with an 'A') and a small ID plate was affixed to the inner front wing with the Australian body number. Once the car was fully assembled, it was then fitted with a Daimler Benz chassis plate and the official chassis number was stamped into the left hand front chassis member. This was done to ensure that the Australian assembled cars maintained continuity with any changes to components/running gear after a certain chassis number. All Australian assembled cars also had a '6' as the 7th digit of the chassis number (i.e. 111014-60-123456) as opposed to German made cars where the 7th digit would be a '2' for a RHD car.

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dynamike
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by dynamike » Mon 29 May, 2017 4:53 pm

Tazzieman wrote: I copied this off an Ozbenz post a while back.
Full write-up here and quite interesting read too: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13809#p106153
1965 220 Sb Sedan
1962 220Seb Sedan (stripped for parts)
http://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23626

thriftymaxx
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by thriftymaxx » Mon 29 May, 2017 6:30 pm

So after al the invaluable info on the topic I went out and gave the compliance plates a really good clean and it says it wads complied in 63 and it has disks up front so it shows my incompetence in the subject! So in finding out that info it all points towards a 63 model doesn't it? A few years off by me and my so called brains trust!!!

"I own a 1963 220Sb Australian built Merc"..........and I accept the fact....., unless someone proves me wrong.
At least I know how to head up the subject line when I go to sell. Cheers everyone for steering me on the right path.......and in closing "I'm after expressions of interest", located in Moruya on the south coast of NSW.
:occasion5: Matt

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Bartman4800
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 29 May, 2017 7:22 pm

Bit weird though:

My Finnie is a 63, and it's VIN is 111.012-60-092120
It would suggest yours was made a lot earlier. Are you sure you have the correct number? There are 2 numbers stamped in the body, to add confusion..


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

andyqld
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by andyqld » Sat 23 Dec, 2017 3:35 pm

Hi All,
Just rejoined and looking to buy a very nice finny.
I've had a W140L and an early 450SEL but now only a fintail will do.

I will travel interstate but anything in Queensland first?
Current:
Konrad 300SE lang 1965
Previously:
CLK500Convertible 2003
450SEL 1973
S320L 1996

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Ivanerrol
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 23 Dec, 2017 7:41 pm

andyqld wrote:
Sat 23 Dec, 2017 3:35 pm
Hi All,
Just rejoined and looking to buy a very nice finny.
I've had a W140L and an early 450SEL but now only a fintail will do.

I will travel interstate but anything in Queensland first?
MercMad is based in Brisbane. He normally only works on older Benz's. Ho may make a post and suggest a possible purchase.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240, E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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cuisses
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by cuisses » Sat 23 Dec, 2017 8:03 pm

andyqld wrote:
Sat 23 Dec, 2017 3:35 pm
Hi All,
Just rejoined and looking to buy a very nice finny.
I've had a W140L and an early 450SEL but now only a fintail will do.

I will travel interstate but anything in Queensland first?
See the end of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=12140&start=600
David Williams

W108 280SE 4.5 (Papyrus White and Palomino)

CraigB
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by CraigB » Sat 23 Dec, 2017 8:18 pm

and could be worth sending an email/pm to Pastelgrey300 - David Knight. Not only is he a finnie expert he is also in the SA Mercedes Club that awarded that concourse trophy this year to that car. I am sure he will be able to give you background on it. Price is another matter of course.
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Mercmad » Sat 30 Dec, 2017 9:31 am

Bartman4800 wrote:
Mon 29 May, 2017 7:22 pm
Bit weird though:

My Finnie is a 63, and it's VIN is 111.012-60-092120
It would suggest yours was made a lot earlier. Are you sure you have the correct number? There are 2 numbers stamped in the body, to add confusion..


Bart
All Mercedes up to the W108 models had two numbers, the Chassis number and the body Number . On a Finny the chassis number can be in two places, the Right front chassis extension (by the air cleaner ) or stamped into the radiator support panel . his confuses a lot of folks especially when they have an OZ built version which will also have a red plate saying that it was built by AMI in melbourne with yet another 3 digit number , but that is simply the assemblers own number ,and could be consecutive with the vanguard being assembled behind it. A lot of finnys also have two plates, one with the chassis number and one with the body number ( my coupe has the body number stamped into the radiator support panel and US VIN plate with a number which means nothing . And... these numbers on finnys are NOT VIN's . that is a different separate system of numbering and holds the vehicles data code in a 13 digit form. These numbers are simply the model type, the left or right version and the chassis number of the car built for a particular year .The body number is different for this reason, as the body options(Sun roof, taxi etc etc ) were counted as different types .So that means the body number will be different . I have seen plenty of cars with rego documents featuring the body number ....But with computers we now know that the numbers for the chassis and the body must be correct to prevent hassles at the rego office. :computer: :cussing: :coffee:

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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by Ludwig » Sat 30 Dec, 2017 12:20 pm

there's a nice W112 300SE lang (nearly finished) at Rocklea that I know the owner is prepared to sell. comes with a donor car as well.
1954 W180
1971 W109 300SEL 3.5Litre
1981 W123 280e (2)
1982 W124 230e

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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by andyqld » Sun 31 Dec, 2017 12:19 pm

Ivanerrol wrote:
Sat 23 Dec, 2017 7:41 pm
andyqld wrote:
Sat 23 Dec, 2017 3:35 pm
Hi All,
Just rejoined and looking to buy a very nice finny.
I've had a W140L and an early 450SEL but now only a fintail will do.

I will travel interstate but anything in Queensland first?
MercMad is based in Brisbane. He normally only works on older Benz's. Ho may make a post and suggest a possible purchase.
Thanks IvanErrol
Current:
Konrad 300SE lang 1965
Previously:
CLK500Convertible 2003
450SEL 1973
S320L 1996

andyqld
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by andyqld » Sun 31 Dec, 2017 2:27 pm

Thanks Ludwig, thanks all. Will start with Ron at Rocklea :dance: :dance: :dance:
Current:
Konrad 300SE lang 1965
Previously:
CLK500Convertible 2003
450SEL 1973
S320L 1996

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drew56cus
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Re: 220Sb values?

Post by drew56cus » Sun 14 Jan, 2018 6:04 pm

Hi andyqld, are you still looking for a finny? Any particular model, year, colour etc? PM me your contacts please as I know of one that may be for sale in Brisbane.

Cheers, Drew
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
'66 250SE/C (#3 project)

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