Self-driving cars anyone?

Content NOT RELATED to the Forum. If you have other non-mercedes content to discuss, this is where to do it.
Post Reply
willtosleep
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed 29 Nov, 2017 7:23 pm
Model you own: w210
Location: Adelaide

Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by willtosleep » Fri 15 Dec, 2017 1:20 am

They say we'll probably get driverless cars by 2021 https://tranio.com/world/spotlight/self ... rket_5354/ made by Ford, General Motors, BMW and Toyota. Do you guys look forward to it? As much as I look forward to see and get some experience with them, I don't quite believe they will be widespread before 2030's. It should take a lot to implement them in the local infrastructures, and there are some ethical questions about programming them too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixIoDYVfKA0 Wonder what you guys think about it

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 3:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ivanerrol » Fri 15 Dec, 2017 7:57 pm

Shamelessly stolen quote from excellent article on alternative energy vehicles.

The same applies to self - driving cars.
There seems to be an amazing amount of appallingly bad misinformation on both traditional and alternate energy out there. Driven by everything from wishful thinking to hidden agendas to hero worship to big business hatred to government stupidity to subsidy ripoffs to bad labwork to utter cluelessness to R&D funding grabs to outright scams.
Two examples.

Last week I had to go to outer south of Melbourne. I used the GPS in the W204. A major new freeway wasn't on the GPS.

Two weeks before that I had the occasion to need to drive from the Melbourne CBD to an address five kilometers away in Port Melbourne.
I used the iPhone and gogglemap GPS. - It's got the latest updates
I followed the GPS directions on the phone knowing it was leading me astray.
I ended up in a carpark underneath the Bolte Bridge 7 kilometers away from my destination.
Resetting the GPS and starting again, the first command was to take a road that would have required me to drive through a 2 meter wire mesh fence.

Government stupidity driven by P.T. Barnum showman such as the Muskrat is leading the gullible over a cliff.
Car companies are going along for the ride - there's tax benefits to be had.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 7979
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Mercmad » Tue 19 Dec, 2017 3:20 pm

It was the lemming which ran off the cliff wasn't it?https://youtu.be/AOOs8MaR1YM

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 7979
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Mercmad » Tue 19 Dec, 2017 3:25 pm

imagine your self driving car taking you out to Bourke via Louth? And what do you do if the battery runs down ?

User avatar
Christo C
S Class
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri 04 Jul, 2014 9:24 am
Model you own: w124
Location: Sydney [Beaconsfield]
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Christo C » Tue 19 Dec, 2017 3:36 pm

Mercmad, It is FAKE NEWS: ‘twas in 1958 Disney invented that story and faked the footage about Lemmings in a documentary; discredited now as totally untrue; even Disney Studios admit they told a fib.
Or is that your point?
(In case you are wondering, Mickey Mouse was fake too! Sorry to rain on your parade.)
~Christo
1986 230E W124.023 M102.982 Thistle Green Saloon "Janis"

User avatar
T-Modell
SLS AMG
Posts: 2606
Joined: Mon 10 Apr, 2006 1:47 am
Model you own: w107
Location: Weinheim / Germany
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by T-Modell » Tue 19 Dec, 2017 6:04 pm

Hi,
coming back to the topic; here in Germany traffic is getting more and more heavy, i. e. in 80% of the cases, you can just "swim" with the traffic. So "self-driving" and making speed is less and less possible. So when you're on long business trips, exhausted, it's quite a challenge to drive 300-600kms home.

That's why a few weeks ago I test-drove the facelift S-Class with Distronic and an assistant to change lanes automatically. I was totally surprised, how well these systems work already. You put the cruise control at e. g. 140km/h and the car does the rest. The distance to the front car is in a way constant, that you think it's connected to it with a steel bar. Setting the indicator, the car checks if it's safe to change lanes and does it automatically.

No technical system will ever work 100%, but imho it's a huge relief when you HAVE to drive.

Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 7979
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Mercmad » Wed 20 Dec, 2017 1:49 pm

Christo C wrote:
Tue 19 Dec, 2017 3:36 pm
Mercmad, It is FAKE NEWS: ‘twas in 1958 Disney invented that story and faked the footage about Lemmings in a documentary; discredited now as totally untrue; even Disney Studios admit they told a fib.
Or is that your point?
(In case you are wondering, Mickey Mouse was fake too! Sorry to rain on your parade.)
I just put the link up to show lemmings jumping into the sea ,but if you want to look closer,you can see they were actually thrown into the sea by the film crew.... I have known this part of the story since at least the 60's . :laughing6: :laughing6:

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 7979
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Mercmad » Wed 20 Dec, 2017 1:52 pm

T-Modell wrote:
Tue 19 Dec, 2017 6:04 pm
Hi,
coming back to the topic; here in Germany traffic is getting more and more heavy, i. e. in 80% of the cases, you can just "swim" with the traffic. So "self-driving" and making speed is less and less possible. So when you're on long business trips, exhausted, it's quite a challenge to drive 300-600kms home.

That's why a few weeks ago I test-drove the facelift S-Class with Distronic and an assistant to change lanes automatically. I was totally surprised, how well these systems work already. You put the cruise control at e. g. 140km/h and the car does the rest. The distance to the front car is in a way constant, that you think it's connected to it with a steel bar. Setting the indicator, the car checks if it's safe to change lanes and does it automatically.

No technical system will ever work 100%, but imho it's a huge relief when you HAVE to drive.

Regards
Thomas
The driver less vehicle has been around long before the car... it's called a bus. If i had to live where there were more cars than Brisbane i would leave. :laughing6:

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 3:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 23 Dec, 2017 9:37 am

https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/exc ... ePageNews7

Interesting but must be read carefully
Haab says a level three introduction period of 2020-2025 “sounds reasonable” in Australia, where autonomous driving abilities are likely to be restricted to controlled zones on major dual-carriageways.
Haab says it will be decades before people can buy a “car” that would allow anyone – even children, infirm or blind people – to travel anywhere, anytime with the same freedoms offered to regular drivers.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

Ludwig
Pagoda
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon 29 Feb, 2016 7:54 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Westdale WA

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ludwig » Sat 23 Dec, 2017 11:35 pm

yeah driverless cars. I need to go into town to pick up some parts for a windmill. Drive 50kms along almost uninhabited roads, collect the part and then drive back before driving down into the paddock to where the windmill is located. oh dear, I forgot some tools so.....drive back to the shed....no not there....maybe down at the dam....yes, that's right, I was fixing a water pump yesterday and left my stilson on the fuel tank......ok found it so now back to the windmill....but while I'm here, ill take a drive around the paddock to check on the lambs........why is that one limping.....back to the shed to pick up a dog and the first aid kit and then back to the paddock....where are they now.....oh there they are in amongst those trees...........
I could go on but you get the point. driverless cars my arse. oh...and I don't need to own a car....just call one up when I need it????? oh yeah that's gonna work too.
1954 W180
1964 W112 300SE lang
1971 W109 300SEL 3.5Litre
1981 W123 280e (2)
1982 W124 230e

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 7979
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Mercmad » Sat 30 Dec, 2017 11:33 am

Musk is becoming the green guru of the 21st century and just like most cult leaders, hes a fake. Here's cardogan's bitchy view of it all. Bitchy but right on the nail .https://youtu.be/LlvYv1SJJEY and in the past where cult members have no real idea of history;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walker_Electric_Truck

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 3:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 30 Dec, 2017 8:03 pm

The trouble with Cadogan is that he's a Journo.
It's obvious he has no engineering or scientific high level education.
He studies "Facts" in some pseudo scientific or online economic publications and bases his reasoning on these "Facts".
He quote's laws of Thermodynamics constantly but I highly suspect he has no Physics knowledge to go with to actually understand the science behind them.

He calls Tesla devotees Cult Members but he is himself a full scale member of the Globull warming cult. Global Warming and runaway rising temperatures is itself contradictory to the Laws of Thermodynamics - but I suspect if you pointed this out to him he would call you a dickhead.

He has some good points about self driving and electric cars but has missed the real Physics and real world issues.

Now.... :snooty: Here is the game changer.
In the last couple of weeks those associated with the US military program investigating "UFO"'s have admitted that UFO's are real.
This hasn't yet sunk into the general MSM and or general public.

The technology associated with these UFO's is unknown - at least to the general public.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Bartman4800
300 SLR
Posts: 1748
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2008 12:10 am
Model you own: w111
Location: Perth WA

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Bartman4800 » Fri 05 Jan, 2018 4:29 pm

Ivanerrol wrote:
Sat 30 Dec, 2017 8:03 pm
The trouble with Cadogan is that he's a Journo.
It's obvious he has no engineering or scientific high level education.
He studies "Facts" in some pseudo scientific or online economic publications and bases his reasoning on these "Facts".
He quote's laws of Thermodynamics constantly but I highly suspect he has no Physics knowledge to go with to actually understand the science behind them.
He actually claims he does have a degree in Mechanical Engineering.
Being an engineer myself I have not been able to fault him on his facts.

He was spot on with the Ford Ranger ad, where the "madmen" who made the ad obviously got their Force calculations skewed...
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 7979
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Mercmad » Thu 11 Jan, 2018 6:50 pm

Electric cars haven't progressed much since the late 1800's .They are still heavy, expensive and have a pitiful range. To me , most Teslas I've seen are simply pimped up Toyota camrys with nothing to really make them stick out .As PT Barnum said, theres a sucker born every minute.

brothermaynard
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 2:55 pm
Model you own: I don't own one
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by brothermaynard » Tue 16 Jan, 2018 5:19 pm

Having driven from Melbourne to Sydney and back via the Hume last week I can confidently say i would have been stoked to have had a new S class to assist with most of the driving. That trip must qualify as the most soul-destroying drive in the world. Adaptive cruise control and automated lane changes would have been pretty nice. It does introduce the risk of drivers falling asleep at the wheel though...

And no, there won't be level 5 autonomous self driving cars in your paddock this decade. Or even in the next.
But there might be a car available to me in ten years that allows me to read a book or take a nap whilst driving down the Hume, and take back control somewhere just before Sydney. That'd be a damn good start. And don't forget there are plenty of controlled environments out there where self driving vehicles are nothing new anymore - RioTinto has successfully been using self driving haul trucks in mines for years, thousands of self driving pallet movers are in use in warehouses around the world. Step by step these technologies will move into less predictable environments.

But this progress will be slower than companies predicted in 2014. This Wired article is a nice one on that topic: https://www.wired.com/story/self-drivin ... hallenges/

As far as electric cars go - to say they haven't improved much since the 1800s is nonsense. No, they can't replace internal combustion engines for all use cases. Maybe they never will. But there's no reason to say they're a failure until they do.

Ludwig
Pagoda
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon 29 Feb, 2016 7:54 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Westdale WA

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ludwig » Wed 17 Jan, 2018 1:19 pm

Aw C'mon. Read a book or take a nap while the car hurtles down the road at 100 kmph. I can't even take a nap or read a book when someone else is driving let alone when a computer is doing it. Dump trucks on mines? yeah....but someone is driving it while watching on a remote TV and, like automated pallet lifters in warehouses thy follow a fixed path with nothing coming the other way controlled by a human. They are in a managed environment. So....maybe in big cities over limited routes but really..........why bother. The capitalist system works by creating more and more products, for which there is no demand, using more and more of the earth's resources, creating more and more pollution and then convincing gullible (stupid) people that they really must have a system that turns their house lights on before the get home or a car that drives itself while they sit back and scratch their balls (or whatever it is that ladies do). FFS has the whole world gone mad?
1954 W180
1964 W112 300SE lang
1971 W109 300SEL 3.5Litre
1981 W123 280e (2)
1982 W124 230e

brothermaynard
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 2:55 pm
Model you own: I don't own one
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by brothermaynard » Wed 17 Jan, 2018 2:16 pm

Ludwig wrote:
Wed 17 Jan, 2018 1:19 pm
Aw C'mon. Read a book or take a nap while the car hurtles down the road at 100 kmph. I can't even take a nap or read a book when someone else is driving let alone when a computer is doing it.
Nobody says you have to. And with the way some of my mates drive i'm definitely not taking naps in the passenger seat either. But eventually this technology is going to be more reliable than a human driver on an eight hour drive down the Hume. I've got some insight into the stats for driver fatigue monitoring systems on long haul trucks going down the Hume. Professional drivers get fatigued and drift out of their lane every day. Computers don't fatigue, don't blink, don't get distracted.
Dump trucks on mines? yeah....but someone is driving it while watching on a remote TV and, like automated pallet lifters in warehouses thy follow a fixed path with nothing coming the other way controlled by a human. They are in a managed environment.
That's partially correct. They drive along pre-mapped paths in the mine/warehouse and they have sensors on board that make sure they stay on track and stop if anything is out of the ordinary. Nobody is driving them remotely, that would completely defeat the purpose. There are a few controllers for a few dozen trucks. Managed environment = 100% true. That's why level 5 autonomous cars replacing all drivers is still decades away.
So....maybe in big cities over limited routes but really..........why bother. The capitalist system works by creating more and more products, for which there is no demand, using more and more of the earth's resources, creating more and more pollution and then convincing gullible (stupid) people that they really must have a system that turns their house lights on before the get home or a car that drives itself while they sit back and scratch their balls (or whatever it is that ladies do). FFS has the whole world gone mad?
I don't even know where to start with that. For a start i wish you good luck running a successful business creating products for which there is no demand. Now let's keep it simple and just look at increased productivity of millions of people in Australia alone spending say, six hours per week (conservative estimate?) driving themselves to and from work. They could do things that are more productive or fun. I haven't even gotten to the safety benefits yet. Australia's road toll is pretty significant and i bet mechanical failure and wildlife accounts for only a very small percentage of it - human drivers are to blame for the majority of traffic deaths.

Ludwig
Pagoda
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon 29 Feb, 2016 7:54 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Westdale WA

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ludwig » Wed 17 Jan, 2018 4:59 pm

Ahhhh yes........ Leisure time......How wonderful.....and with more leisure, surely there will be less stress and greater happiness. More time to spend with the children "Sorry darling, I can't come to your ballet daddy/mummy has to work back". Yeah tell me about all of those labour saving devices and the leisure which they created. shall we start back in to 50's with the vacuum cleaner or maybe into the 60's with spin dryer washing machine.....oh the 70's with the automatic washing machine/dishwasher and then the microwave (meals in minutes). What will we do with all of the spare time which we have? Oh......and the happiness. people were reasonably happy back in the 50's so with all of the wonderful time saving innovations they must surely now be in a constant state of BLISS. NO........what happened then. Well now both partners have to work to maintain the "things" which they simply must have and without which life wouldn't be worth living. Kids? ........can't afford kids.....maybe when the mortgage is paid off and we get back from our years holiday to Europe. Menopause ? "Already, but I'm only 42". "I'm leaving you". "Sorry, but I'm just not happy". "NOT HAPPY with all of the gizmos, things and knick knacks that we have, how can you not be happy". "I know but (sigh) I just don't feel fulfilled".
so yeah.......save 6 hours a week driving and all will be well. NO IT FN WELL WON'T.
We are being played for SUCKERS by a system that convinces us that we won't be happy unless we have "things" and then offers us more things and more and more. Each time telling us that we cannot possibly be happy unless we have the latest "thing".
OK....so what to do?
DOWNSIZE your life
1...make a list of all that is important in your life
2.. prioritise that list
3.. go to the bottom and delete as many items as you can leaving only those which bring happiness.

My bet is that you will finish up with very few items on that list.
Health (self and family)
Time with loved ones.
Shelter
Food
Clothing
Music/art
Natural environment
(you add your own)
1954 W180
1964 W112 300SE lang
1971 W109 300SEL 3.5Litre
1981 W123 280e (2)
1982 W124 230e

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 3:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ivanerrol » Thu 18 Jan, 2018 7:59 am

Food for thought.
Long article but relevant.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/terrorist ... le/2011171
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

brothermaynard
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 2:55 pm
Model you own: I don't own one
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by brothermaynard » Thu 18 Jan, 2018 10:38 am

Ludwig wrote:
Wed 17 Jan, 2018 4:59 pm
Ahhhh yes........
Now here we have a completely different argument. Is this whole system making us any happier? That discussion needs a glass of whisky to go with it and i'm sure we would find plenty common ground. Lots of pros and cons. Advances in healthcare keep up alive longer but air pollution gives us health problems. Transport technology allows us to see the world, child mortality is down in most societies, millions of people in China alone are no longer living in poverty. But the oceans are full of plastic, millions of people need anti-depressants to function in western societies and the divide between have/have-not is only growing.

Still - i really dislike driving the Hume and would much rather have a more 'train like' travel experience :)

brothermaynard
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 2:55 pm
Model you own: I don't own one
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by brothermaynard » Thu 18 Jan, 2018 10:39 am

Ivanerrol wrote:
Thu 18 Jan, 2018 7:59 am
Food for thought.
Long article but relevant.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/terrorist ... le/2011171
Thanks for that - that's really interesting! Currently working my way through the long form essay it is based on at https://www.zachaysan.com/writing/2018- ... shing-cars

Engineering control systems that are safe enough to be hooked into the internet 24/7 is quite the challenge. Especially with hardware bugs now being found (read: published) in common processors. There's plenty more security flaws out there that haven't been discovered/made public.

I'm pretty happy planes are not connected to the internet! Oh wait, the new ones are.... And how about the control systems on oil refineries? Or hydro dam control systems? Best not think about it too long and get back to watching Netflix ;)

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5621
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 3:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: Self-driving cars anyone?

Post by Ivanerrol » Thu 18 Jan, 2018 11:23 am

brothermaynard wrote:
Thu 18 Jan, 2018 10:39 am
Ivanerrol wrote:
Thu 18 Jan, 2018 7:59 am
Food for thought.
Long article but relevant.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/terrorist ... le/2011171
Thanks for that - that's really interesting! Currently working my way through the long form essay it is based on at https://www.zachaysan.com/writing/2018- ... shing-cars

Engineering control systems that are safe enough to be hooked into the internet 24/7 is quite the challenge. Especially with hardware bugs now being found (read: published) in common processors. There's plenty more security flaws out there that haven't been discovered/made public.

I'm pretty happy planes are not connected to the internet! Oh wait, the new ones are.... And how about the control systems on oil refineries? Or hydro dam control systems? Best not think about it too long and get back to watching Netflix ;)
Little off topic. : The US defence budget is 10 times larger than Russia's and more than twice as large as China's. How much of that budget is invested into software and cyber warfare?
Most software has been originated in the U.S., China and Russia have stolen software and hardware from the U.S. Who is too know how many backdoors are included in the stolen code?
Russia and particularly China are now boasting about their latest Gen5 aircraft that are supposed to match the F22. The F22 was designed back in the late 80's early '90's How far have the U.S. come since then. There were originally supposed to be over 780 F22's made and deployed. There are only actually around 180. The U.S. has stated they don't need any more. Why? What have they got up there sleeve?
Maybe something like this? https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01- ... -been-made
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

Post Reply

Return to “Off-Topic / Unrelated Chat”