New replacement key.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 28 Nov, 2017 1:31 pm

Over the weekend Werner/Wilhelm (my C200/W202 T Elegance wagon) locked me out!.I had 2x brand new batteries replaced thinking that's etc the cause of the problem etc.STILL as of writing unlocked emailed the stealership in Melbourne &nearly both fell off my chair&had a heart attack $639.55 for both a "master key" & key! :(.Does anyone know in either eastern or north-eastern suburbs of Melbourne where i can get a replacement/new key cut MASSIVELY cheaper than MB "stealership"?! :).

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Tue 28 Nov, 2017 2:31 pm

Which type of key are you talking about
this one

or this one

The electronics are MB only. Not had any success with fleebay knockoffs.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 28 Nov, 2017 3:16 pm

The one displayed in 1st photo/pic but mine doesn't depict boot just lock&unlock i think they're called "1st gen" key.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Tue 28 Nov, 2017 10:07 pm

Stealership only.
Have your sheckels ready

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:52 am

Ended up jacking car up&placing axle stands underneath &connecting battery jumper leads to both starter motor&spare battery,
This worked &was able to unlock my car phew! MANY&MASSIVE sigh of relief!!!!!,
BUT NOW i've misplaced&lost both my "key fob" &metal spare key,
I can ONLY use the plastic key to start it!,
Does anyone know what the metal or "key fob" codes are ?,
So as i can get a new /replacement key cut so as i can at least lock&unlock it! :).

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 3:31 pm

Is there ANYWAY i can lock/unlock Werner/Wilhelm WITHOUT both the "key fob" &metal spare key?,
&Get a NEW replacement key (metal) WITHOUT having to get the key codes (which btw the stealership wont give me due to privacy/security reasons!) :(.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:50 pm

If you are talking about this key.

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Even if you have the codes you may not be able to get one cut.

If you take your ID down to the stealership and your ownership papers they may order a new key for you at between $629 - $750.00

You will not get the original black style of key.
you will get one of these.

I feel your pain. Only a couple of years ago the stealership cost for a replacement key was only $289.00
Last year it had gone up to $489.00

This year it's gone up again

Having said that lucky you don't have a Range Rover with missing keys.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:58 pm

Option "b"

My 94 C180 W202 has no original electronic keyless entry.
The keyless entry has been changed for an aftermarket one.
The ignition key and door lock are the original.

If worse comes to worse, you could install a 3rd party keyless entry and persevere with your plastic ignition key.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Sun 10 Dec, 2017 9:00 pm

'Stealership" quoted me between $ 575-640,
Some locksmiths quoted between $ 450-1100!

effing theives!!!!,
I contacted thru etc email "German Star".
Who gave me a number of a locksmith they used who's doing it (cutting NEW/replacement keys) for $450! .

Post by **Tony From West Oz** » Sun 10 Dec, 2017 10:48 pm

newMercowner69 wrote: ↑Sun 10 Dec, 2017 9:00 pm 'Stealership" quoted me between $ 575-640,
Some locksmiths quoted between $ 450-1100! effing theives!!!!,
I contacted thru etc email "German Star".
Who gave me a number of a locksmith they used who's doing it (cutting NEW/replacement keys) for $450! .

In that price, are they coding the computer to recognise the new key?

Post by **newMercowner69** » Mon 11 Dec, 2017 10:24 am

Yes Tony both locksmiths &"stealerships" do,
Btw pity&a shame about misunderstanding re:headlight cover,
Now I have to&must fork/shell out/pay $394 for a pair,
All/even though insurance will reimburse me! :).

Post by **Tony From West Oz** » Mon 11 Dec, 2017 1:40 pm

Ivanerrol wrote: ↑Tue 05 Dec, 2017 10:58 pm Option "b"

My 94 C180 W202 has no original electronic keyless entry.
The keyless entry has been changed for an aftermarket one.
The ignition key and door lock are the original.

If worse comes to worse, you could install a 3rd party keyless entry and persevere with your plastic ignition key.

Unfortunately, the electronic key is part of the immobiliser / anti theft system and unless the ECU identifies the key as being coded in the ECU, you will mot be able to start the car. You may be able to crank it, but it will not start. I had an issue with the ignition lock electronics on my '98 C250 and had to get a new ignition lock coded to the ECU.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 1:44 pm

Indicators STILL DON'T WORK/NOT WORKING despite checking bulbs&fuses & brand new replacement keys cut & coded.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 6:20 pm

newMercowner69 wrote: ↑Tue 12 Dec, 2017 1:44 pm Indicators STILL DON'T WORK/NOT WORKING despite checking bulbs&fuses & brand new replacement keys cut & coded.

Does your emergency four way flash indicator work?
The switches break down.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 7:23 pm

You mean hazard lights?.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 7:26 pm

The hazard lights still come&stay on even when switch is NOT depressed.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 8:02 pm

I wonder if the problem is because keys (key fob/remote) isn't GENUINE O.E.M. MB?!,
As I didn't want to pay "stealership" between $575-640 for brand New keys!.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Tue 12 Dec, 2017 10:07 pm

So.
This new electronic key setup.
(a) Unlocks and locks the car.
(b) Starts the car up and drives away.
(c) The indicators wont work and the hazard feature is "haphazard".

Do you have the green and red leds on the mirror? Used for indication when locking and unlocking and sets the immobilizer?
I assume you trained the new key to the car when you got it.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 12:19 pm

My particular model didn't come with a immobilser,
7 There's NOTHING in my service books that mentions how to "synch" key to immobilser,
The locksmith mentioned to me that i can take up to 4 hrs,
For the key &ecu to "talk" to one another,
Removed hazard light fuse (no 41 in fuse box),
So as NOT to flatten the battery,
When i removed the fuse the hazard light stopped of course but also STILL NO indicators,
Put battery on extra charge didn't make a difference,
Taking Werner/Wilhelm to German doctor (Gull Wing Motors) for expert diagnosis.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 12:21 pm

you trained the new key to the car when you got it.Don't know how!,
Assuming that's what the locksmith meant by it could take up to 4 hrs,
As previously typed NOTHING in my service books mentions :how to train your key to the car or vice versa.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 3:28 pm

Check to see if you have a N10 relay. This relay controls the indicators and hazard lights.
Do you have the red and green leds on the rear vision mirror.
All Benz's post '90 had immobilizers.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 5:51 pm

According to my service books it doesn't appear that my particular model C200/T Elegance has a immobiliser,
As the switch itself is either located on the centre console (along with mirror&window switches) or next to/on dash alongside hazard light switch,
I'll check for both LED on rear vision mirror & N 10 relay,
Many & massive thanks for advice,assistance & help! :).

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 8:43 pm

The immobilizer is part of the electronic unlocking/locking the door process with the push button key.
The red green leds on the rearvison mirror are prominent. If you had them yo would know.
The green led flashes when unlocking the car, the red flashes when locking - you can't miss it.

Over the course of the W202 there were various locking systems.
The first series came with the rectangular push button with a metal key on a spring as i the image I posted above.
My '94 W202 has no red/green leds. My '96 model did. Another '96 model we had came with the newer key like yours but still with the leds.
Post '98 a newer locking system was introduced. I suspect your car has the latest variation.
The last versions had no N10 relay (which controlled the indicators, wipers and hazard lights)
They have a SAM module. Tony from West Oz knows all about those.

On the pre '98 models - if you changed the battery on the keyfob retraining to the system was required. Lookup the procedure on youtube.
I suspect your car has the same system as my W210.
The indicators flash on locking and unlocking. Three flashes for lock, one for unlock.

I would hesitate to guess this is supposed to be the same on your car. The SAM (Service Actuation Module) does all the neccesary functions the N10 relay did on the earlier models.
It's possible the coding done by the locksmith is not 100%. I would take it back and get them to recode.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 9:01 pm

If you had this emergency flat key supplied with the car originally. It has the key code printed on it.

IMG_3780.jpg

IMG_3779.jpg

The metal key gets you in the car. The flat key starts it up.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 9:13 pm

Yeah I've got that one!,
Didn't know the codes are on it!,
Once again many&massive thanks,
For advice, assistance & help! :).

Post by **newMercowner69** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 9:28 pm

Found the code,
It's a 4 digit number,
The rest I'm assuming appear&look like MB part numbers,
BTW/fyi the locksmith cut me a 3 button key&NOT a 2 button key,
Looks newer compared to mine,
The 3rd button apparently & supposedly unlocks the tailgate BUT doesn't work,
Didn't need the function anyway!.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Wed 13 Dec, 2017 10:36 pm

If you use the emergency flat key.
Does the car start up and drive?
Do the indicators and hazard work properly?
If the indicators dont work with the flat key, then it could be a case of a faulty SAM module.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 11:55 am

When i was using emergency flat key,
Yes it'd start &drive BUT then suddenely the hazard lights came on same time as indicators,
&Then they'd come on intermittently & then NO indicators! :(.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 3:45 pm

Any idea as to the cost of a SAM module&where i can obtain one apart from a "stealership"

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Thu 14 Dec, 2017 10:39 pm

PM Tony from West Oz.
He has experience with this issue.

Post by **Tony From West Oz** » Fri 15 Dec, 2017 12:21 am

I was unable to obtain a used module and had to resort to the having to get one from the $tealer$hip (Ouch!!) The cost of the job was in the vicinity of $600 but that was a few years ago.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:53 am

The $tealer$hip" quoted me $1315! :(.

Post by **Tony From West Oz** » Fri 15 Dec, 2017 4:12 pm

It may be possible to replace the unit with one from a wreckers, providing that it is a known good one with a guarantee that it works.
Ask John Green, he may know.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Fri 15 Dec, 2017 7:45 pm

Tony, how hard are these to remove from a car at a wreckers?

There are some prospective cars around the pick a part yards.

Post by **Don** » Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:34 pm

The module (where the key goes in) takes about 30 seconds to get out.

My wife's 202 kompressor had similar probs as the op. Initially it had no indicators and other stuff like wipers but would drive - for a while. A replacement key was still problematic for a while until the ignition module was replaced from a wreck. Thankfully the friendly locksmith was able to reprogram the module so the new key would work. The giveaway was there was no "click-clack" when the key was inserted and woke the car up.

Keys not working can be deceptive. It's usually an aging module causing headaches in conjunction with a dud key.

Post by **Don** » Sat 16 Dec, 2017 2:47 pm

As an aside, MB Mornington quoted $2,200 for a new module and $650 for a key plus programming. There is not an emoticon in existence to convey my horror.

I wont say how much they charged to read the codes but when I got the invoice they had blacked out the fault codes!

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Sat 16 Dec, 2017 3:19 pm

Did you try Glenstar Prestige in Dtomana?

Post by **Don** » Sat 16 Dec, 2017 3:31 pm

Its pretty much sorted now but any further issues and might try Glenstar. Was that the guy from Moorabbin?

Post by **newMercowner69** » Sat 16 Dec, 2017 4:15 pm

Trying the N10 relay (if we can find where it's located underneath the bonnet)! :).

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Sat 16 Dec, 2017 4:20 pm

Don wrote: ↑Sat 16 Dec, 2017 3:31 pm Its pretty much sorted now but any further issues and might try Glenstar. Was that the guy from Moorabbin?

That is him or his guys - Glen himself might have retired

Post by **Don** » Sun 17 Dec, 2017 6:43 pm

I did call in a while ago (12 months?) Glen was there on his own. I suspect he was it.

Post by **Don** » Sun 17 Dec, 2017 6:49 pm

newMercowner69 wrote: ↑Sat 16 Dec, 2017 4:15 pm Trying the N10 relay (if we can find where it's located underneath the bonnet)! :).

It's been a while but maybe under the cover on the left where the diagnosis thingy plugs in. I found some relays and fuses in the back in front of where the spare sits.

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Sun 17 Dec, 2017 7:13 pm

Sam module cars don't have the N10 relay.

If it was there it's under the black cover behind the fuses block. You need to unscrew the cover - it's a long rectangular black relay box.

Post by **newMercowner69** » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 10:34 am

Appears/seems/turns out to be the SAM module,
Werner/Wilhelm's at MotorSpark auto electricain in Blackburn,
Geting&recieving said module,
ALL up inc diagnostics/labour&part $500! :(.
it (SAM) module was wet because i gave Werner/Wilhelm a bath 2-3 weeks ago & washed away leaves & fallen moss underneath the bonnet.Little did i know/realise&understand,
That even though i assumed&thought i was doing the right thing thinking leaves etc getting stuck underneath the A/C &heater&windscreen cowls would cause the A/C& heate&wipers NOT to work that despite the fuse/relay box being long&covered water DID indeed get underneath! DOH!.A costly&expensive mistake costing me nearly $1K inc the key! :(,
NEVER EVER will i wash UNDERNEATH the bonnet! :).

Post by **newMercowner69** » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 4:20 pm

All up/complete/total cost was $957 inc key&SMART (which's more than what Werner's/Wilhelm's dad etc is!)

:naughty: :pray: :snooty: :think: :wall:

Post by **Ivanerrol** » Mon 18 Dec, 2017 8:42 pm

A little bit related to:
Don't let any fluid of any kind drip down the gearstick area of any car with a 722.6 in it. - There's a circuit board underneath which costs $900.00 to replace - second hand part. Friend on the gold coast just had hers done on a '98 W202

That's why there are no cup holders around the gearstick area on a Benz.

Beware the fizzy softdrinks and coffee laden with sugar.

Post by **SLKR170** » Mon 11 May, 2020 11:00 pm

Hi everyone,

This particular problem drove me CRAZY for a year! I had the red green red lights flashing in the mirror. I could crank but not start my 1995 C220. I thought it was an immobiliser issue. I replaced the fuel pump, fuel relay, fuel regulator, crankshaft sensor, sent the Engine Control Unit (ECU) to America for modification (immo off) got the MB dealer out (who couldn't diagnose the problem or even read the codes BUT still charged me $190! From checking many,many websites and Youtube I finally found one comment - just one line that said check your Over Voltage Protection (OVP) Relay. (relay in that silver box with the fuse next to OBD port).

I did and that was it! That was my problem fixed! Easiest way to check the OVP is to open the relay case and push the bottom relay with a plastic pen (with key in position 2) and you should hear the fuel pump and injectors come to life...and you can start your car. Order a new OVP relay (around $100) and you are good to go!

I hope my post helps someone as this was a major, major issue for me and i hope I can save another member from all this heartache! I was about to junk my car and send it to the wreckers as no one - not even the MB Dealer could diagnose the fault!