W115 Ute Project starts ...

[T-Modell]

Hi guys,

some progress to report (still waiting for the motor holders): The brake booster is now in place and Juergen from Mercedes found a pretty good solution. Together with my modified W115 brake pedal (used the pedal of a W124), it should work.

As the W115 tank opening is between the rear lights, but the pickup has it on the right, we removed the Pick-Up-Tank today; as everything is rotten with this car, it was quite surprising that the tank is in pretty good nick. So we will rebuild it from Diesel to Petrol ... at least some money saved ... just recovered from my heart attack after receiving the Mercedes bill for July

Regards
Thomas

2017-08-04 - 18 - Bardel - Tank Pick-Up_1280x960.JPG

2017-08-04 - 15 - Bardel - Tank Pick-Up_1280x960.JPG

[Mercmad]

Hi guys,

... just recovered from my heart attack after receiving the Mercedes bill for July

Regards
Thomas

i was reminded today that an engine swap I am doing has taken a year and a half ...... time flies when you are head down arse up on a project. But this happens when the owner decides they want other things done which stretch out the time and I haven't booked all the time i have worked on this damn thing ha ha ha

[T-Modell]

Hi down under,
big milestone achieved on Tuesday: we have the motor in position and it looks like Mercedes has designed it! My 3D-designed motor holders were professionally done out of a steel block and what worked as a provision in plastic now works in steel!

Amazing work, that my Mercedes-guy has done (well I helped a bit ). Thanks also for the help of Stefan 6.9, Mercmad, AMG and John Green here!

Tomorrow the car will be transported to some specialists to do a) the complete exhaust incl. manifolds and b) shorten/extend and balance the drive shaft. Unfortunately, the V8-SLC drive shaft doesn't fit the 500 (length would have been alright), so I have to modify the SL drive shaft.

Next steps then will be to make the car driveable, so we can test the whole setup. Then it will be dismantled and the body work will start.

Regards and I keep you updated!
Thomas

[T-Modell]

So,
off we go ... the donor car with the motor was ready today and Stefan 6.9 helped me with the transport to the exhaust specialist ... we'll see how this will go!

Ready to go (hood closes )


On the way:


Regards
Thomas

[AMG]

Righto, enough celebrations. Get cracking..





Youngtimer looks funny on a trailer.

[T-Modell]

Hi,
a short update (car's still away) ... picked up my radiator yesterday ... the original W115 radiator, but with a high performance radiator block (the max that's possible) and completely refurbished ... looks good I think

Regards
Thomas

P. S.: Including 19% GST this was 500 Euros; I could have saved 150 Euros with the "normal" radiator block.

[AMG]

Thats good value considering... we have to pay that kind of money for shitty plastic tanked PRC made stuff.

[T-Modell]

Thats good value considering... we have to pay that kind of money for shitty plastic tanked PRC made stuff.

... and guess where the radiators end up, that you hand in at the Mercedes Classic Centre

Thomas

[Mercmad]

you driving it yet? Nice trailer too.

[T-Modell]

Hi guys,
while I'm still waiting for my exhaust guy ... technically he's fantastic, planning is hmmmm ... I can report another little project for the ute: I fiddled around with a 320x240 display to be integrated into the ashtray ... at least Outside and Oil Temperature should be displayed there. Could finally safeguard my 12/5V power supply, design a holder for the ashtray inside ... and the prototype is working:

2017-10-24 - Stand Halterung Prototyp.jpg

2017-10-24 - Display Aschenbecher Prototyp_1280x717.jpg

Sourced an outside temperature sensor from a C203 and and oil sensor from VDO ... and dug out my old mathematics ... to evaluate the logarithm curve

Best regards
Thomas

[Honey500]

Slow progress but progress none the less.
Can'twait to hear that it is together and running!

[AMG]

Thomas,

Here's your next project... completed. ;)
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Mercedes-Benz-P ... rmvSB=true

[T-Modell]

[T-Modell]

Hi down under,
the exhaust guy is still cursing about the space he has for two 40mm downpipes on the left side ... but I continued a little bit on the "important" parts of the project, the ashtray display:

2017-11-02 - 02 - Display Aschenbecher Prototyp_1280x717.jpg

Regards
Thomas

[AMG]

Good to see the ashtray has a secondary function. I used mine for loose change

[eddie]

any chance you could 3D print a rear chassis leg to suit a w111, Thomas?

[T-Modell]

any chance you could 3D print a rear chassis leg to suit a w111, Thomas?

There are machines already which could do that ... in the professional prototyping area. Besides that, 3D-printing helped me a lot so far with this project, e. g. the motor holders as a prototype, so we only had to do them once in steel. Another future application with the ute will be to adapt the vents of a to-be-installed-air-con to the original dashboard ...

as mentioned before ... life without a 3D-printer is possible, but useless
Thomas

[T-Modell]

Hi everyone,

been to the exhaust guy today ... he's fed up with the car ... so he wants to get rid of it by the end of next week

New definition of a tight squeeze (all hand-made):

2017-11-15 - 08 - Auspuffanlage Stand_1280x960.JPG

Regards
Thomas

[220SEB]

As a reply to the exhaust guy being fed up with the car/exhaust....I used to work in a hanger that had a few eccentric old tradesmen, one of them had a saying, "your ability to preform is not based on your capacity to do the mundane, but your acceptance of the impossible as routine" He was an exceptional machinist.

rod

[AMG]

I always get concerned when tradespeople express to a customer that they're 'fed up' - to me it implies they are frustrated because of their lack of patience, and it can reflect in the end result - and because of the degree of frustration they often think the price should increase due to their lack of patience and/or skills.

I have to say I have never met a tradesman who does exceptional work to behave in this manner. They get on with the job and complete it. when it's done, they usually quip 'wasn't one of the easier one's we've had to do' but they appreciate the praise for their effort when the compliments are forthcoming. They also don't rush work. The ones who do, are cutting corners.

My experience with the ones who complain about the job have a 100% sub-standard work for the $$$ paid. I could list a number of jobs on several cars over the years where this has occurred, and I've had to have the job redone by someone else. They are the ones I tell people to avoid, show the enquiring minds the examples of the work completed and the price paid. These tradespeople are usually the same asshats who say it will cost $$$$ because the badge is mercedes, and because you cannot find an alternative or have a problem with parts availability or a time issue, you get gouged, or worse, the job is unsatisfactory and you lose the time or have to fix other things 'casualties of war' - i.e. damage to paint or other return-to-rectify work - especially when it comes to exhausts and clearances.

I think as we age, our levels of tolerance increase to a threshold, then follows the downhill curve to the point where it's non-existent.

I hope your exhaust guy was just expressing his frustration at the clearances he had to work with, and it isn't reflecting in his workmanship.

Fingers crossed for you

This is another one of those 'reasons' I don't let people touch or work on my cars without supervision. I have a basic expectation that a job should be done properly, once. It's not unrealistic - it's an expectation that if you are a professional, the attitude towards your work is reflected in the quality of the end product.

[T-Modell]

...I hope your exhaust guy was just expressing his frustration at the clearances he had to work with, and it isn't reflecting in his workmanship...

Joe,
I just summarised in a word, this quote of yours fits ... it's really challenging, even for him, to get this exhaust in. What I have seen so far is exceptional. It's scheduled for next friday and Stefan 6.9 will be there with me for the "acceptance" ... four eyes see more than two.

I'll report
Thomas

[AMG]

Ohh I know it's tight.

some years back in JG's driveway my spare m117.968 was shoehorned into a 114 sedan engine bay, to verify what needed to be reworked to make it fit. The exhaust clearances were 'non-existent'

So fingers crossed for you.

[T-Modell]

Ohh I know it's tight.

some years back in JG's driveway my spare m117.968 was shoehorned into a 114 sedan engine bay, to verify what needed to be reworked to make it fit. The exhaust clearances were 'non-existent'

So fingers crossed for you.

Yep, and believe it or not ... even on the left side (steering box) he managed to get two 40mm pipes downwards
Thomas

[T-Modell]

Hi down under,
believe it or not ... the exhaust guy got finished yesterday; got a tad more expensive but the work is outstanding. Stefan helped me with the transport and Juergen at Mercedes was pretty impressed. The only "problem" might be, that the middle muffler is too high and collides with the drive shaft ... we'll see. In two weeks we continue (I'm too busy with work now) ... here's two pics:




All stainless steel, 4->2, two 40mm-downpipes each side and two 45mm all the way to the back of the car. The manifolds will be wrapped when the car is finished; this will keep 75% or the heat out of the motor area. The exhaust guy said (he's doing racing too), that they could change the spark plugs after a race without burning their fingers!

Regards
Thomas

[AMG]

love the turned down tips at the rear - perfectly standard look. Awesome ;)

Yes, that propshaft is going to rub. maybe dummy fit the rear half and centre bearing, just to see how close.

[oldmercfan]

Hi Thomas, you are creating a thing of beauty. By the way, they sure don't look like standard trailing arms on the rear suspension? Can you tell me a bit about them? Rgds, David

[T-Modell]

love the turned down tips at the rear - perfectly standard look. Awesome ;)

Yep, that was the intention

Hi Thomas, you are creating a thing of beauty. By the way, they sure don't look like standard trailing arms on the rear suspension? Can you tell me a bit about them? Rgds, David

Well David,
it's a long thread now ... both axles are from a 1983 R107 500SL donor car ... incl. brakes, motor and gearbox ...

Regards
Thomas

[T-Modell]

Hi down under,
just wanted to share my new nickname with you guys ... Stefan 6.9 sent me some brake hoses ... this was on the envelope:

WP_20171202_18_49_27_Rich.jpg

Regards
Thomas

[AMG]

Is that because you made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

[T-Modell]

Is that because you made him an offer he couldn't refuse?

... that was a good one
Thomas

[T-Modell]

Progress!
Just came back from a day of work with Juergen; everything we planned fits! ... so the front axle is complete now, all clearances there, looks good. Also the drive shaft fits and there's enough clearance to the exhaust ... funny optical illusion.

Next Tuesday we continue; column shift steering, brake lines and fuel lines ...

Regards
Thomas

Drift shaft and exhaust:


The whole thing on the lift:

[drew56cus]

This is really exciting for you, santa is bringing you some joy this Christmas!
Is the exhaust wrap you speak of just that standard cloth type wrap? I thought it decreased the life of the metal? My finnie engine bay gets way too hot for my liking.
Cheers, Drew

[AMG]

Looks like you have a metric ton of space - surely that was an optical illusion if ever there was one ;)

Amazing what a camera angle can do

Now about that offer...

thegodfather.jpg

[T-Modell]

This is really exciting for you, santa is bringing you some joy this Christmas!
Is the exhaust wrap you speak of just that standard cloth type wrap? I thought it decreased the life of the metal? My finnie engine bay gets way too hot for my liking.
Cheers, Drew

Thanks for the cheers,
the wrap comes from motor sport (US product, quite expensive). It will look like that (it's the exhaust guy's V6-Audi):

2017-10-19 - 08 - Auspuffanlage Stand_1067x800.JPG

Regards
Thomas

P. S.: @AMG: we both were surprised about the clearance of the shaft; besides the camera we also thought the same when looking at it

[220SEB]

Have you thought about ceramic coating for the exhaust? It'll run cooler, look better and cost around the same.

[T-Modell]

Have you thought about ceramic coating for the exhaust? It'll run cooler, look better and cost around the same.

Hi, I haven't heard of that. I don't know, if it takes 75% of the heat out of the motor area. That's my main objective.

Regards
Thomas

[drew56cus]

My headers are ceramic coated, and yes they look pretty good, but they still get bloody hot.

[AMG]

My headers are ceramic coated, and yes they look pretty good, but they still get bloody hot.

Really?

I have ceramic coated headers on the 16v and the difference in temps is insane compared to the uncoated sets.

They are still hot to the touch, but they aren't anywhere near as bad as uncoated.

[T-Modell]

Hi guys,

some progress to report ... we fiddled quite a while over three (!) days. Day one was the torsion bar at the back which has to be modified. Unfortunately very hard steel, so that takes time (still not finished, but we know what we want). Two days we spent (!) on actually getting the column shift in and connected to the M117-gearbox. Also something the first "specialists" said "no way, not possible", but we made it. Nearly all parts heavily modified (we're talking filing, changing levers and angles, etc. etc. ... also the lever at the gearbox is altered).

Here's the car with new shocks ... stands pretty straight:


And the final solution (still to be made nicely) of the column shift ... looks so easy, now that it's in, but it was two days:


Best regards
Thomas

[220SEB]

My headers are ceramic coated, and yes they look pretty good, but they still get bloody hot.

Really?

I have ceramic coated headers on the 16v and the difference in temps is insane compared to the uncoated sets.

They are still hot to the touch, but they aren't anywhere near as bad as uncoated.

That's my experience as well, I've had several motorcycle exhausts done and one car and all were dramatically cooler.

[T-Modell]

So, some more progress on the "really important" issues finally got the electric windows in; unfortunately the W108/109 mechanics don't fit straight away; I had to modify the window guides, but now it works fine:



Also important for me, the loudspeakers. I found the spots now for a 16cm bass, a 10cm midrange and a 25mm titan high range. The high- and midrange fit into the door without hassling the electric windows; the hole for the midrange is not the recommended 10cm, but around 8cm. Together with the door panel this is big enough. The 16cm bass fits into the footroom; outside into the fender. This works well in my W111, so I copied that here.

Might be interesting for others to "upgrade" their sound system.



With my best regards
Thomas

[T-Modell]

Hi guys,

some progress after days of work ... the acceleration linkage is now working (everything more or less hand-made) and the ABS is in with the first lines (still to be straightened ... the original W126 holder for the hydraulic unit is still available ... welded some stands underneath it):


I also had to solve the aircon problem; original W115 parts are basically impossible to find. So I found on the US market some units, that combine heating and cooling (incl. electronic control). This box is smaller than the original heater box. As in Germany you have to suck in air from the outside, I designed an adapter for the big hole in the middle and for one side of the aircon-vent. Those are connected via a flexible hose:

Adapter outside:

Adapter aircon:


Here's the result, built-in (just the holders left and right was a day's work):



But the best thing about that aircon is, that they deliver adapters for your original hands/dials. Two linear potentionmetres for "mode" and "temp" as well as one radial poti for the vent ... so an adapter for the radial poti was designed:


and that's how the "original" W115-part looks like now (two of four sliders are active, the two left ones):


This project is just work, work, work. Numerous other challenges met, so we'll continue with the brake- and fuel-lines. Condensator and aircon-hoses next ...

With my best regards
Thomas

[220SEB]

Have you thought about ceramic coating for the exhaust? It'll run cooler, look better and cost around the same.

Hi, I haven't heard of that. I don't know, if it takes 75% of the heat out of the motor area. That's my main objective.

Regards
Thomas

Just another note on wrapping the headers, if the wrapping get wet, remember to run the engine until they are completely dry, never put the car away with wet wrap as this can lead to corrosion.

[T-Modell]

Hi downunder,
as this project hadn't had any obstacles so far, we found a serious one today ... dismantled the motor from the R107 donor ... it's crap. Obviously the 127,000kms in Japan stop and go did their part. It must have had serious temperature problems, as the thermostat was just ... missing

So a complete rebuild of that fugging shyte rubbish stinky blouddy annoying motor is on the agenda. Why do I not have a standard wife, who threatens me with divorce, so I have to throw all that stuff in the bin?


Thomas

[CraigB]

The bore on the faces that normally wear look really good, no apparent ring groove, but the scoring is at the side and must have got real hot. With the camshafts, i had some spare ones i was considering chucking because i could see some scoring but i asked my engine rebuilder cousin and he said that Mercedes cams are incredibly hard. I can't remember what he said now to treat them, but the lobes were still good shape and I think he said something like they could be linished and would be fine. So depends how far you want to go but those might be fine. Also with the low miles looking bore I reckon all your crank etc will be well within spec. Just those bloody bores! See west Kim's rebuild notes, could go to 5.4 with the bigger pistons he has ordered from US - like amg did.

[AMG]

Thomas,
You can order Mahle pistons in the 0.5mm oversize for that engine - no problem.
As you are also in the fatherland, you will be able to have the block correctly machined and honed according to mercedes specifications with the correct fluid and final stone sets.

There are 2 routes for you with camshafts -
the standard 220kw "25" grind hydraulics from febi for m117.967/8 or the mechanical tappet amg grind - which involves complete swapout of rockers, shims etc - the whole lot.

personally, I'd go for the hydraulic setup - far less maintenance. Also, the valve lash caps will still need to be ground, most likely on the RH bank rear cyls, which on m117's always seem to be the noisy ones. (that's your drivers side rear cyl)

I'd check your main & rod bearings, but I think you might be in for a pleasant surprise unless it's had poor oil change intervals.

best of luck - progress looks amazing, and I'm acutely aware that it's a very time consuming process...

[T-Modell]

Thanks Craig and Joe,

Stefan pointed me in this direction too, ordering special light-weight pistons etc. Today I was at Mercedes where I met a motor specialist who could do the job. The figures from him, Mercedes itself and Stefan all indicate a total cost of around 8-12,000 Euros for it. So I've come up with another option:

I found someone who has new (!) M117 engines with all parts attached in new too. I will meet him next week in person and we'll discuss this solution. Even if it's more expensive, I have one year warranty and a brand-new motor. Within the rebuild-option, there's at least two parties involved and in case of failure the finger-pointing will start.

So if that works out, I will sell the remaining parts of the M117 and go for the brand-new one. Saves money - and not to forget - a lot of time (and I shouldn't have any problems on the motor front).

I'll keep you informed
Thomas

[TheMadRacoon]

I found someone who has new (!) M117 engines with all parts attached in new too. I will meet him next week in person and we'll discuss this solution. Even if it's more expensive, I have one year warranty and a brand-new motor.

Whoa there, Thomas. You found What? NEW? Surely that deserves a new thread on its own!

Mmmmm, new M117.

What was that you said, Joe

I'm almost convinced there is no such thing as a reliable modern car. We're better off with our older vehicles simplicity in many ways.
electronic gimmicks are nice for Gen Y to have, so let them pay for the experience of ownership.

Your prayers may have been answered.

[Honey500]

Wow new old stock for parts conceivable....but an entire 117 that seems a little crazy!!!!

[T-Modell]

Hi,
I'll found out more on Wednesday. The motors aren't NOS; this guy obviously had all parts (block, pistons, ...) and builds them up with all parts attached. He told me, that he has motors "new" as well as officially Mercedes-refurbished motors with all new parts attached. I will talk to him in person, I'll drive 300kms and I have the information of another MB-nutter (who knows him well), that he's not a liar or a cheat.

What might convince me to go that way - after my experiences with the donor car - is, that I buy a COMPLETE motor, i. e. if there's any problem with it, I'll put it on his desk and tell him to fix it (1 year warranty).

Regards
Thomas

P. S.: My puzzle