The Finnie Bible -errata

1961-1968: a.k.a "Finnie" or "Heckflosse" models
190, 190D, 200, 200D, 220b, 220Sb, 220SEb, 230, 230S, 250SE coupe, 280SE coupe, 280SE 3.5 coupe, 220SEb cabrio., 250SE conv., 280SE cabrio., 280SE 3.5 Cabrio., 300SE, 300SE coupe, 300SE conv., 300SEL
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crado
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The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by crado » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 12:21 pm

This is brilliant, thanks. I am hoping to re-enter the wonderful world of finnies soon, so this should be really useful.

One thing that might be useful to attach to this topic (although I know some info appears elsewhere on the forum) is on the question of wheels and tyres, specifically changing from 13 to 14 inch. I am told the 5.5 or 6 inch wide wheels from a W123 or 6 cyl W116 will fit. It has also been suggested to me that, on 6 inch width, 195/14 commercial tyres (ie intended for utes etc, rather than normal tyres intended for sedans) are both cheaper and better than ordinary sedan tyres, having deeper tread and stronger side walls. I haven't tried this yet and don't really know what I'm talking about, but offer it for what it's worth.

Presumably any hubcap from a W123 or 116 would fit...

Best wishes

Crado (Hobart, W123 300D and 230E, soon to be 220S...)

V8Finny
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Re: The Finnie Bible

Post by V8Finny » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 5:25 pm

That's the one!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

I'll be back in Melb in 11 days....and RIP INTO my first finny....and collated info like this will save me WEEKS, if not more!!!!!

....and YES....there'll be pix!!!!!! :twisted:

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by AMG » Fri 22 Aug, 2008 10:18 pm

Guys,
To keep Drew's post nice and perfect as it is, I'm moving all the comments into this thread. Drew can edit the Bible as and when necessary, based on the comments here, if things need to be added or updated.

Given that Drew has put a huge amount of effort into the Finnie Bible, I'd really hate to see it evolve into the only thread on the board. So for the suggestions etc, this errata is the place to post, and Drew can keep adding to the bible all this useful information.

For all other model specific general information questions etc, please post a new topic, so the question can be answered, if the information isn't in the Finnie Bible.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by V8Finny » Sat 23 Aug, 2008 1:33 am

Fantastic idea!

perhaps Drew can bring THIS thread back to the top (without actually posting????) whenever he updates the BIBLE....just to let us know to have another fresh look!

"If I could learn a quarter of what he's forgotten about these cars....." :D
6.3 Litres of rusty, crusty, oily power!

69 W109 300SEL 6.3 #2462
68 W109 300SEL 6.3 #0952 - crushed by City of Monash
69 W108 280S - gone to pay for 6.3 rust repairs
52 Ford Pickup

sydney1
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by sydney1 » Wed 27 Aug, 2008 11:31 pm

Rims 14" the ones i am using are and i have chosen 185 x 75 x 14 Michlin and am very happy with them wet or dry

numbered 1084000002 and are 6Jx14H all 4 rims must he the same i had 2 cars i scrapped more rust than panels

have 7 rims 6jx14 h the other 3 are unknown if you get all rims the same you will know that the 14" SS i piece dress rims will fit

Sydney from sydney

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Jonathan_Essling
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Jonathan_Essling » Thu 28 Aug, 2008 10:53 pm

Formidable.

Answered a whole heap of questions I was going to post.

Wish I'd read this before I bought:

'General
1) Unless you love tinkering and restoring cars, and can do almost everything yourself, buy the best car you can afford, as the cost of restoring the sedans quickly exceeds their value.'
1978 W123 280Ce
1988 W126 560SEL
1996 P38 Range Rover 4.6HSE

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by V8Finny » Tue 16 Sep, 2008 8:35 pm

Fuel Tank Plug "Tool"

After going to 'Bunny's' to find a bolt and 2 nuts to undo my fuel tank drain, and being sadly dissappointed, I went to my 'bucket le crap' in the back of the garage and found a PERFECT tool....

....the CASTLE NUT off an early Falcon tie-rod end!!!!

perfect size, double height nut!!!! :D

and after all of that,...the inside of my tank was SPOTLESS anyway!
I'm almost disappointed by how many Finnie problems my one DOESN'T have !!! :D Even the dash lights work fine!
6.3 Litres of rusty, crusty, oily power!

69 W109 300SEL 6.3 #2462
68 W109 300SEL 6.3 #0952 - crushed by City of Monash
69 W108 280S - gone to pay for 6.3 rust repairs
52 Ford Pickup

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Mercmad » Sun 28 Sep, 2008 4:39 pm

crado wrote:This is brilliant, thanks. I am hoping to re-enter the wonderful world of finnies soon, so this should be really useful.

One thing that might be useful to attach to this topic (although I know some info appears elsewhere on the forum) is on the question of wheels and tyres, specifically changing from 13 to 14 inch. I am told the 5.5 or 6 inch wide wheels from a W123 or 6 cyl W116 will fit. It has also been suggested to me that, on 6 inch width, 195/14 commercial tyres (ie intended for utes etc, rather than normal tyres intended for sedans) are both cheaper and better than ordinary sedan tyres, having deeper tread and stronger side walls. I haven't tried this yet and don't really know what I'm talking about, but offer it for what it's worth.

Presumably any hubcap from a W123 or 116 would fit...

Best wishes

Crado (Hobart, W123 300D and 230E, soon to be 220S...)
Seriously bad move! the radial tyres originally fitted to finny's are what you need,not stiff walled truck tyres. And being cheap usually means junk.
I've had 14x6.5 rims with 225-14 tyres on a finny and theres plenty of room,it's the same suspension geometry and floor pan as a my 6.3 so clearance is not a worry. 15 Inch wheels were an option on finnys too .Mainly for ambulance and police cars. Decent 14" tyres ar impossible to buy these days so consider going to 15's. what you have to remember is the "ET". On finny's etc maximim ET is 23-30 . It's written on all decent mercedes rims.

crado
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by crado » Wed 01 Oct, 2008 11:31 pm

Thanks Mercmad. Since posting last time I have acquired a 1965 220S (will post some pics soon) with decent 13 inch wheels and tyres, so I'll contemplate the options for a while, I think: it's a pity not to have the original wheel trims on the car.

Crado

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by V8Finny » Sun 05 Oct, 2008 8:25 pm

It takes ATLEAST 3 litres of ATF to fill the tranny.......ask me how I know!?! :lol:
6.3 Litres of rusty, crusty, oily power!

69 W109 300SEL 6.3 #2462
68 W109 300SEL 6.3 #0952 - crushed by City of Monash
69 W108 280S - gone to pay for 6.3 rust repairs
52 Ford Pickup

V8Finny
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by V8Finny » Sun 05 Oct, 2008 8:28 pm

crado wrote:Thanks Mercmad. Since posting last time I have acquired a 1965 220S (will post some pics soon) with decent 13 inch wheels and tyres, so I'll contemplate the options for a while, I think: it's a pity not to have the original wheel trims on the car.

Crado
I used the 14s off my parts car......which means I have an extra set of 13inch trim rings and caps.

Im currently using JUST the caps on my 14s, but I could be easily persuaded! :twisted: :wink:
6.3 Litres of rusty, crusty, oily power!

69 W109 300SEL 6.3 #2462
68 W109 300SEL 6.3 #0952 - crushed by City of Monash
69 W108 280S - gone to pay for 6.3 rust repairs
52 Ford Pickup

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pastelgrey300D
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by pastelgrey300D » Tue 13 Jul, 2010 11:27 am

Hi folks, I might have missed a memo, but what type ATF is correct for a Finnie? There is no mention of it in the bible (just a ???), although it does mention Dexron II for the Manual gearbox - I'm fairly sure this would be ok for the Auto then?

Just wondering what type of ATF everyone else is using?

Many thanks!
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
+ other classics

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thirdmerc
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by thirdmerc » Wed 14 Jul, 2010 12:56 am

pastelgrey300D wrote: but what type ATF is correct for a Finnie?
after some research I used Transmax M for the steering box
I see it is recomended for the auto as well tho I havent had to add any fluid yet and will probably wait til it is serviced
in case it has some other fluid

having said that my autotrans guy says that the dexrons are backwardly compatible and filled the W123 box with III
after the service
transmaxM.jpg
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Mercmad » Fri 09 Dec, 2011 11:13 am

Dexron 3 is the stuff to use in both the DB trans of the finnys and all the 722.xxx up to 1992.

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by devilishdesigner » Tue 12 Jun, 2012 5:18 pm

What is the correct sparkplug and points gap?
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Mercmad » Wed 13 Jun, 2012 9:26 am

Which model and can you see the little plate on the side odf the dizzy? .there various specs for the different dizzys used. i get rid of points in all cases. it's 1900's technology and there are better things around now.
:smurf:

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by devilishdesigner » Wed 13 Jun, 2012 2:31 pm

They're not all bad, I told myself when I got my current daily driver (Volvo 122S) I'd replace the points with elec ignition when they started to give me trouble. 5 years later and I'm still on points.

1965 220S, I'll take a look for the plate when I get home
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Brad220S
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Brad220S » Fri 15 Jun, 2012 8:39 pm

In the past couple of months we have had 2 cars in our car club "fail to proceed" both fitted with aftermarket electronic ignition.
Great when it works, but big problems when it doesn't. At least with points you can fix them on the side of the road and be on your way quickly.

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Mercmad
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Mercmad » Sat 16 Jun, 2012 9:11 am

what sort of aftermarket parts were they? i have used pertronix for years and apart ferom someone unnamed who hooked one up backwards,i have never seen one fail. i have seen those hall effect type things fail(crane fireball etc ) because they use a semi mechanical set up with an extra box but it was very old age in those cases. ...and where do you find points these days? go to supercheap and they think you are asking for Pointers..tips on how to get your camry running or something.
Gone are the days when every servo had a rack full of plugs and points for almost any car on the road.

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drew56cus
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by drew56cus » Wed 11 Jul, 2012 8:37 am

A set of points and a new condenser from Repco cost the same as a Pertronix from Ponderosa Mustang on ebay. And then the points were wrong...
Lucky I have never hooked my Pertronix up backwards! :liar:
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 23 Oct, 2012 7:46 pm

I bought a 123 ignition for my 220 Sb, have not installed it though because renovating my house got in the way. :think:

Is anyone familiar with this? They are fully electronic, but use the original dizzie cap.


Regards, Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
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The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Boyracer » Tue 23 Oct, 2012 8:00 pm

I have 123 Ignition on both my Citroen DS. Highly recommended!
Cheers,
Michael

'85 Mercedes Benz W123 230E [929 Nautical Blue Metallic]

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Mercmad
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Mercmad » Wed 24 Oct, 2012 8:13 am

Anything is better than the old points set up :dance: . Check the timing chain for wear by setting the cam on the number one mark (a groove in the washer behind the chain wheel and a line on the first cam bearing) and then looking at the damper timing mark. Anymore than 5 degrees means the chain should be replaced.

mahin
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by mahin » Sat 06 Apr, 2013 5:09 pm

I realise that this subject may have been broached previously, however could someone outline the pros and cons of fuel injection versus carburation systems in Finnies.

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Mercmad
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Mercmad » Sun 07 Apr, 2013 9:01 am

The Pro .More power with the fuel injection.
As long as the system is in reasonable condition it will start,run and drive as good as a late model mercedes.
The con... not too many mechanics have ever heard of mechanical petrol injection and even less have seen one . You need to find someone who can diagnose and service the system properly. You can get robbed if you do not know what is needed to get them running correctly.

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by mahin » Tue 09 Apr, 2013 8:43 pm

Thanks Mercmad,
Is there any real difference in fuel consumption? Can you suggest any literature pertaining to the operation and set up of mechanical fuel injection systems?

Regards Matt.

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Mercmad » Thu 18 Apr, 2013 9:35 am

Theres lots of info on the peach parts/pelican parts site in the USA for Porsche 911 Mechanical injection tuning which is mostly the same as the Mercedes setup. It's ot advisable for those who do not have any experience with the Mfi to play with them as they are full of little traps to catch the unwary.

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by mahin » Fri 19 Apr, 2013 6:45 pm

Thanks again Mercmad.

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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Brehon47 » Fri 22 Apr, 2016 2:29 pm

....And there's a splendid checklist for tuning a mechanical fuel injection set up in the Finnie bible. I used it with good effect. Can't wait to get a new distributor though. Seems to have a lot of play, despite the vehicle only covering 94 thousand miles (first time around). Tiny
Tiny
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Bartman4800
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by Bartman4800 » Fri 22 Apr, 2016 3:55 pm

I have pulled a few heater taps apart, and found different sizes of O-ring every time. Took me a while to work out the exact diameter. It is critical for them to spin freely AND seal properly.

The O-rings in the heater taps are 13 x 3 (Inner diam x Cross section), normal Buna/Nitrile rubber.
Any O-ring specialist would have these on the shelf, and they don't cost more than 2 dollars each.

Best is to install them with O-ring grease (Parker sells a good brand)

When you install them, there is a risk of pushing the valve in too far (don't ask how I know)
If you push them too far you will cut the O-ring in 3 parts on the way out.
So to install them properly, first use a boss that is larger than the valve housing. Push until the boss hits the housing.
The last few mm can be done by hand, very carefully.

Put the locking tab back on, then the lever. I hope you marked it before you pulled them out, they fit in 4 ways :laughing6:

The valve should rotate freely, especially with the grease.

Bart
Last edited by Bartman4800 on Tue 19 Sep, 2017 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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dynamike
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Re: The Finnie Bible -errata

Post by dynamike » Sun 17 Sep, 2017 10:07 pm

So what are people buying as power steering fluid. The newer Dexron atf seems to have additives that may not be ideal?

The manual asks for sae 10 type A but no local shops seem to have that. Closest thing I could find is gulf western.
http://www.gulfwestern.com.au/product/atf-dexron-iii/
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1962 220Seb Sedan (stripped for parts)
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