Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

1961-1968: a.k.a "Finnie" or "Heckflosse" models
190, 190D, 200, 200D, 220b, 220Sb, 220SEb, 230, 230S, 250SE coupe, 280SE coupe, 280SE 3.5 coupe, 220SEb cabrio., 250SE conv., 280SE cabrio., 280SE 3.5 Cabrio., 300SE, 300SE coupe, 300SE conv., 300SEL
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Shoudaboughtacoupe1965
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Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Shoudaboughtacoupe1965 » Mon 29 Jan, 2018 1:04 pm

Hello folks...

New to the forum so might as well pop my first question? My W111 Finnie has the original factory long fuel pump though sadly it has started to leak. Upon pull down and inspection it is evident that the seal inside has corroded. I have a rebuild kit however it does not include this unusual internal seal. Are these internal seals available anywhere? Otherwise what would be my best/easiest option for fitting a different unit? Cheers Corrado
1965 W111 220SEB Sedan
1966 250SE W108 (Rusted out but haven't the heart to put to sleep)
1962 220S W111 Sedan (sold 1995)

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Bartman4800
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 29 Jan, 2018 3:51 pm

Not sure what seal you are talking about, can you post a picture? (You need minimum 5 posts for that by the way)

If it is not too complex you can cut it out of gasket paper, available at Repco.


Other than that you can install a replacement mechanical pump, or a replacement electrical pump.

I am fortunate that my mechanical pump has a priming lever, which lets me fill the carbs before I turn the starter.
I have Solex carburetors; the bowls are empty (fuel evaporation) after a week and just by starting it would take at least 30 seconds to fill.
An electrical pump would solve that problem, but it's not original and requires some installation work and potentially a reducing/relief valve.


Regards, Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Shoudaboughtacoupe1965
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Shoudaboughtacoupe1965 » Tue 30 Jan, 2018 10:11 am

Hi Bart,

Thanks for the tips however the internal seal in question is not a gasket type but almost like a small cylinder! Wondering if anyone has any experience of making a replacement or perhaps know where such a replacement seal would be sourced. As previously mentioned I have considered ditching the factory pump and putting something modern on but just not quite sure what would be most compatible??? Cheers again
1965 W111 220SEB Sedan
1966 250SE W108 (Rusted out but haven't the heart to put to sleep)
1962 220S W111 Sedan (sold 1995)

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Bartman4800
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 30 Jan, 2018 4:22 pm

I am not entirely sure what you are talking about.

There is a pushrod that will be operated by a cam on the oil pump shaft.
There is a groove in the housing 44 where an O-ring could be seated but general agreement is that it works fine without that O-ring.

I forgot to ask, is the pump leaking fuel or sump oil?
If it is fuel, it is either the diaphragm (item 12) or a gasket (item 25) on the fuel side of the pump.

Image

http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/mai ... lpump1.jpg

Can you tell from the image below where it leaks?

Bart
Last edited by Bartman4800 on Wed 31 Jan, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Tony From West Oz » Wed 31 Jan, 2018 2:46 am

Bart,
Image didn't show when I opened the post.
Tony
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
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Shoudaboughtacoupe1965
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Shoudaboughtacoupe1965 » Thu 01 Feb, 2018 1:48 am

Actually Bart I'm referring to the fuel pump at the petrol tank.... "bellows seal" item 34.

http://www.sl113.org/wiki/uploads/Main/ ... Page_1.jpg
1965 W111 220SEB Sedan
1966 250SE W108 (Rusted out but haven't the heart to put to sleep)
1962 220S W111 Sedan (sold 1995)

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Bartman4800
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Bartman4800 » Thu 01 Feb, 2018 11:08 am

Next time you start up a thread, please be more specific and tell us yours is a fuel injected car....

Have good read through this link so you know a bit more about finnies: www.heckflosse.nl

Scroll down and press the link "history"
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Mercmad
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Mercmad » Thu 01 Feb, 2018 11:30 am

The pagoda site, 113SL.org has a very good thread on rebuilding those pumps. Normally it's just that seal that fails and fuel leaks from the overflow pipe so the pump is not drowning in raw petrol. They are not a rare part but if you get stuck i have plenty of spares here which are rev build able. You can fit a Holden commodore VK injection pump in place of the original pump, just make sure you replace ALL of the rubber hoses with the newer methanol resistant type and clean the tank filter ,then replace the front filter.

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Shoudaboughtacoupe1965
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Shoudaboughtacoupe1965 » Fri 02 Feb, 2018 2:23 am

Opps... When I stated "long pump" I assumed that was sufficient info given you have either have an early long or late short pump at the fuel tank. Sorry for any confusion.

Thanks Mercmad. I have actually already had a look at the SL site pump rebuild page and appears that the "Bellow Seal" in my existing pump is damaged. Perhaps it might be easier to convert to a VK Holden unit. Cheers
1965 W111 220SEB Sedan
1966 250SE W108 (Rusted out but haven't the heart to put to sleep)
1962 220S W111 Sedan (sold 1995)

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Mick_Marsh
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Mick_Marsh » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 10:05 pm

Here's what I did.

I made a plate:
DSCF1623.JPG
Assembled it:
DSCF1626.JPG
Installed it:
DSCF1642.JPG
The pump I used was from Volvo I think. It was a replacement for a more modern Merc.
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1965 W112 300SE Heckflosse
1970 W109 300SEL 3.5

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dynamike
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by dynamike » Tue 10 Apr, 2018 10:11 pm

Got one here in unknown condition. If you live in Queensland happy for you to have it for a nominal price.
1965 220 Sb Sedan
1962 220Seb Sedan (stripped for parts)
http://ozbenz.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23626

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Mercmad
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Re: Replacing original Finnie fuel pump... what options are there?

Post by Mercmad » Fri 13 Apr, 2018 9:10 am

The pump inlet must be blow the fuel tank outlet. those are not suction pumps they are pressure/volume pumps and if the pump s above the lowest tank level you will find stalling and hesitation at lower fuel tank levels .

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