A Universal discussion..

1961-1968: a.k.a "Finnie" or "Heckflosse" models
190, 190D, 200, 200D, 220b, 220Sb, 220SEb, 230, 230S, 250SE coupe, 280SE coupe, 280SE 3.5 coupe, 220SEb cabrio., 250SE conv., 280SE cabrio., 280SE 3.5 Cabrio., 300SE, 300SE coupe, 300SE conv., 300SEL
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A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 8:02 am

There are at least a few people on here that have an interest in the Universal version of the Finnie that was built by IMA in Belgium. So thought I would start a page to collate what we know and the various discussions surrounding this very unique version of the W110 and W111 chassis..

Lets start with this picture.
Universal Brochure 1966 p03.jpg
And a copy of the options list.
Universal Sonderausstattungen (1968-02-00).pdf
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 8:21 am

Some info on production numbers given to us by a Universal Guru.

These production numbers are from an IMA MATINAUTO publication. They distinguish between the "chassis" and the "break". The numbers for chassis could refer to service or utility vehicles (such as panel deliveries) or the very few CKD Heckflosse sedans that IMA built. IMA records show production continuing into 1969, whereas Mercedes-Benz records indicate that the production of the 230S effectively ended in 1967 with a mere 80 units being produced in 1968. IMA assigned a model year when they completed or shipped a car, not when Mercedes-Benz manufactured the CKD kit in Sindelfingen. In addition to keeping kits in stock to avoid assembly delays and the shipping time from Sindelfingen, IMA had to add its own production time.
Capture.JPG
Now if you go to the MB Clubs Wiki page:

http://et.mercedes-benz-clubs.com/media ... 11/W112/en

You will see production figures for all variants except the Universal, which is a bit odd. But you can do the maths using http://www.heckflosse.nl/prod4.htm as another refferance.

Lets take the 230S as an example. The Heckflosse site says 41107 units in total. Then go to the MB Club wiki pages and you get

40766 sedans
00341 std wheelbase chassis for special bodies

And then IMA say

00336 Universals

Now that adds up to 41443, so someobe added a few in along the way. i also did the maths on the W110 230 and came up with a very simalar increase in numbers...
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by AMG » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 10:34 am

John,
All you have to remember is that

it is a DONE DEAL :joker: :occasion5: :jokercolor:
Current:
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Previous:
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1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 11:53 am

JoeB wrote:John,
All you have to remember is that

it is a DONE DEAL :joker: :occasion5: :jokercolor:
Which i are sure every one reading this understands :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Marrs » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 2:30 pm

John Green wrote:
40766 sedans
00341 std wheelbase chassis for special bodies

And then IMA say

00336 Universals

Now that adds up to 41443, so someobe added a few in along the way. i also did the maths on the W110 230 and came up with a very simalar increase in numbers...
Is it possible that the "341 standard wheelbase chassis for special bodies" were the same cars sent to IMA for their 336 Universals? The numbers seem too close to be a coincidence especially considering the notation for special bodies, or is that what you mean by "They distinguish between the "chassis" and the "break".
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 4:41 pm

The chassis used for making the station wagon (or Kombi or break) were normal wheel base. I would have thought Hearses and ambulances would be on the long wheel base floor pan.
On top of this IMA were just the Belgium based body builders ,so do not forget there was also Binz ,in Germany amongst other coach builders. This would upset the numbers somewhat too.

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by martinkass » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 11:31 pm

Body shell for universal treatment
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by martinkass » Tue 14 Feb, 2012 11:44 pm

advertisment with universal
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Thu 16 Feb, 2012 10:19 am

Mercedes Universal 2 LR.JPG
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Thu 16 Feb, 2012 7:34 pm

What is never mentioned i notice is how they got the floor so flat in the back.
The deck is level with the top of the crossmember that runs over the diff and holds the center pivot .
The shock tops are below the deck height. What they did was cut the top off the shock tubes and the top bolt of the shock absorbers is bolted to a flat plate welded to the floor where the tube top was sliced off.
They obviously used shorter shocks but i cant find any reference to what did use,possibly specially made items.
Image

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Fri 17 Feb, 2012 12:47 pm

And for those with rear facing seats, where did the feet go?
In this box of course ,which meant a special ful tank below the seat and behind the diff.
Image

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by martinkass » Fri 17 Feb, 2012 9:21 pm

John and I have discussed the rear seat option and decided the fuel tank must have been half size as the fuel filler moves to the left guard , not at the back behind the number plate. Correct John?

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Tue 21 Feb, 2012 8:27 am

Most universals were left hand drive ,here is one for sale in Right hand drive.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes ... ars_Trucks
Rusty wagon.jpg
Rusty wagon 3.jpg
Rusty wagon 2.jpg
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by pastelgrey300D » Tue 21 Feb, 2012 10:00 am

Image

That's really sad... I can't believe how badly that's rusted. That is a big asking price but I guess all those wagon parts would be pretty rare and with a good 230S sedan donor you could make a nice new one.
David
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Tue 21 Feb, 2012 3:17 pm

Apart from the rear glass and the dash, I can't see much of value there!

Doubt very much that you could do a DIY Universal as it parts like the rear door hinges are obviously rusted badly, as is something to do with the L/H/R spring...
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Tue 21 Feb, 2012 3:20 pm

Image
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Tue 21 Feb, 2012 5:19 pm

Nice dash though. I would use the roof,seats,tops of the back doors and the tailgate to build a 230S wagon .I have seen far worse ressurected including a burnt 1936 Ford Coupe. The wheels are 15" rims too. Chris Trosch is the owner, and he will entertain any offers.

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Tue 21 Feb, 2012 8:40 pm

Yes, rear door tops may be OK and the rear seat.

I would love to know the history behind that. What is the bet that it was left somewhere at some time and it wasn't to bad a car, wonder what date is on the last tax disc?? Maybe the auto had failed, but thats all. Now it is stuffed. At the time it wasn't worth anything, but only as the motorists of the day were not switched on to keeping what would be valuable today. I wonder sometimes if we are likely to be any better today??
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 8:14 am

Imagine AQUIS when they pulled it from the container in the quarantine area... :laughing6: :laughing6:
All that lichen would have to killed and who knows what is living in there.

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Wed 22 Feb, 2012 9:05 am

It looks like it sat with the r/h side to the South (Sunny side)...
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Fri 24 Feb, 2012 6:54 pm


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A Universal discussion..

Post by Tmaguire » Fri 24 Feb, 2012 8:03 pm

Love it!

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by martinkass » Fri 24 Feb, 2012 10:15 pm

That is actually a hearse not a Universal - did Binz do the hearse conversions?

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Fri 24 Feb, 2012 11:05 pm


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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Fri 24 Feb, 2012 11:16 pm

Image
Not a binz or universal but a Pfefferkorn ... :book:

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Tue 28 Feb, 2012 8:38 pm


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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Wed 29 Feb, 2012 10:01 pm


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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Sun 29 Apr, 2012 9:28 pm

W110 for sale in Germany last month.
110 wagon 1.jpg
W110 wagon2.jpg
W110 wagon 3.jpg
W110 wagon 4.jpg
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Mon 02 Jul, 2012 10:19 am

A pretty interesting article about a finny from Zimbabwe.
http://www.mercedesheritage.com/2012/af ... barn-find/

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by 420 SE » Mon 02 Jul, 2012 12:20 pm

Great story! :occasion5:
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"I don't know, it's just some random dude..."

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Thu 19 Jul, 2012 11:25 pm


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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Chefklasse » Sat 21 Jul, 2012 9:57 am

I quote (translated) : The paintjob has been applied unprofessionally by roller (i.e. normal house painting roller!!) :whistle:

That means that a new complete paintjob including repair of several rusty areas would be advisable ! :think: :think: :think:

Pretty car though ....BUT Portugese quality ??? I dont know.... :drunken:
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by AMG » Sun 22 Jul, 2012 3:12 pm

I wonder what Martin is doing with his universal... things have been quiet lately. :think:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by DeMobBoss » Wed 25 Jul, 2012 7:50 pm

Never seen one of these in the flesh, even while I was working for Mercedes one turned up at the shop but I wasn't rostered. :Doh:
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Fri 03 Aug, 2012 9:33 pm


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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Fri 24 Aug, 2012 5:53 pm


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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Sat 08 Dec, 2012 9:54 am

Roy Spencer has a nice one for sale.
http://www.mercedesheritage.com/classif ... ?view=3577

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by eri67 » Sat 08 Dec, 2012 4:35 pm

Mercmad wrote:Roy Spencer has a nice one for sale.
http://www.mercedesheritage.com/classif ... ?view=3577
That's the Zimbabwe one.
Proud hoarder!

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Sun 23 Dec, 2012 7:19 pm

i saw something just like this one a coule of weeks ago.
Binz.jpg
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Sun 23 Dec, 2012 7:29 pm

Mercmad wrote:i saw something just like this one a coule of weeks ago.
Binz.jpg
Where?
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Sun 23 Dec, 2012 7:41 pm

In your Shed...

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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Sun 23 Dec, 2012 7:44 pm

What a blue one..
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Sun 23 Dec, 2012 7:52 pm

it could be service blue if it were painted..ha ha
Thats a Binz 200D BTW.
Binz W110 rear.jpg
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Sat 20 Apr, 2013 9:53 am

Spottted in Europe..
14172819po.jpg
14172820kq.jpg
image4916.jpg
image79721.jpg
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by Mercmad » Sat 20 Apr, 2013 9:59 am

image4914.jpg
image4917.jpg
image79722.jpg
S112 300SEL 6_9 AMG Universal.JPG
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by 70499 » Mon 22 Apr, 2013 6:55 pm

:happy3:

Join fünfkommasechs.de on Facebook. They post awesome photos.

:happy3:
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by pastelgrey300D » Tue 23 Apr, 2013 11:23 am

Join fünfkommasechs.de on Facebook. They post awesome photos.
They sure do! Liked!

Cheers for all the recent pics too Ron, drool drool drool.... :drool: How about some more pics of your wagon? How are things going with the paint?
David
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by John Green » Sun 30 Jun, 2013 10:49 pm

Found another one that has the third row of seats. Only just obvious in the pictures... Check out the cars in the background.

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/me ... =EstateCar
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by eri67 » Mon 07 Oct, 2013 7:13 am

This appeared on the mercedes Facebook site this morning, sorry about the crappy mobile screenshot

Image
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Re: A Universal discussion..

Post by David B » Fri 25 Oct, 2013 9:29 pm

There's a chap on the Mercedes-Benz Club UK site who wants to read this thread but his registration keeps being rejected.
David B, Hungry Head NSW
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