Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

1961-1968: a.k.a "Finnie" or "Heckflosse" models
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drew56cus
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by drew56cus » Fri 01 Mar, 2013 9:06 pm

Hi Dave,
Check out this car that Mercmad found - should give you an idea of what the 2-tone split you spoke of may look like.
2-tone finnie.jpg
Now, what looks different in that pic?
More pics here:
http://www.autoscout24.es/Details.aspx? ... rc=st%7Cas
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Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Fri 01 Mar, 2013 9:34 pm

ewww... not that I have anything against w115 taillights but they look a bit wrong on a finnie. But I'm absolutely in love with the interior in that car! That red and white dash... :drool:

As for two tone, I was thinking more along the lines of having the two tone stop at the bottom of the glass line, not at the crease. Like this car but white over yellow instead of black over grey:

Image
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by Mercmad » Fri 01 Mar, 2013 10:00 pm

pastelgrey300D wrote:ewww... not that I have anything against w115 taillights but they look a bit wrong on a finnie. But I'm absolutely in love with the interior in that car! That red and white dash... :drool:

As for two tone, I was thinking more along the lines of having the two tone stop at the bottom of the glass line, not at the crease. Like this car but white over yellow instead of black over grey:

Image
and then change your name to Langley?
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Fri 01 Mar, 2013 10:05 pm

:laughing6: Well the name of the company I work for does actually rhyme with Reinhart... :think:

I'm just amazed at how you found that red & white car in the first place - how does one come across a 190D for sale on a spanish online classifieds site...??? Or were you searching for spanish girls named Mercedes....? :laughing5:
David
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1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by Greg in Oz » Sat 02 Mar, 2013 1:07 am

pastelgrey300D wrote:... I managed to score two ATS 6.5" bundts off that car - it had two ATS and two genuine style Bundts on there. CraigB had given me two ATS 6.5s last year and I'd been keeping an eye out for two more so I was pretty stoked to grab the two today which have servicable tyres, plus 15 wheel studs for less than $100 all up. When I got them home all of the numbers match on the two rims from Craig and the two I just bought so I now have a matched set of rims! They are ET30 so should fit fine on the W110.
I'd have grabbed the genuine factory bundts rather than the ATS versions. The factory versions are a much better quality wheel. Forged rather than cast (ie. much sronger). Smoother surface finish. Steel inserts/bushes around lug bolt holes.
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by drew56cus » Sat 02 Mar, 2013 9:11 am

Dave, yes that dash did it for me too, considering that I don't like wood. So the grey coupe will be getting a matching painted dash now!
I think the exterior of the spanish car could have looked better if they did the roof to the glass trim in burgundy, below the window trim to the body crease in white, then the lower half in burgundy again. Or the reverse.
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Sat 02 Mar, 2013 9:47 am

I'd have grabbed the genuine factory bundts rather than the ATS versions. The factory versions are a much better quality wheel. Forged rather than cast (ie. much sronger). Smoother surface finish. Steel inserts/bushes around lug bolt holes.
I know what you mean Greg, the only reason I grabbed the ATS ones over the genuine was because I knew I already had two identical ATS rims at home so I'd have a matching set of 4. I'm sure they'll be fine - lets face it 6.5" bundts are probably overkill for a 200D anyway!

The genuine ones were still at upullit elizabeth as of Thursday arvo so if anyone needs two of them....
David
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1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by Mercmad » Sat 02 Mar, 2013 12:29 pm

drew56cus wrote:Dave, yes that dash did it for me too, considering that I don't like wood. So the grey coupe will be getting a matching painted dash now!
I think the exterior of the spanish car could have looked better if they did the roof to the glass trim in burgundy, below the window trim to the body crease in white, then the lower half in burgundy again. Or the reverse.
In reverse. :laughing6:
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Mon 04 Mar, 2013 12:33 am

In reverse
That looks very nice! But you have the trim strip which helps divide the body a little better... or maybe it's having the darker colour on the bottom - or a bit of both... :think:

Anyway after much procrastinating I finally broke out the jerrycan and scrubbing brushes and started dousing the engine bay with old fuel and scrubbing it clean. Many many hours later...

Image

I still need to go over the upper parts of the engine bay with CT18 (thanks for putting me onto that stuff big gig!) and a sponge, but most of the heavy grease and dirt is gone - particularly from around the crossmember and the lower parts of the engine bay. It was very very greasy down there and there are painted areas that haven't seen the light of day for many years. One good thing about that though is that there is virtually NO rust and I won't have to do much repainting - just touchups to get rid of chips etc. The last remaining items relating to the petrol engine (ignition coil, associated wiring, fuel filters etc) have also been removed.

I finally managed to get rid of the datsun auto shifter - the manual shifter actually sits quite nicely in its place:
Image

Although it may need a bit more massaging to clear everything in the tunnel. It looks ok now but the tailshaft is off center so it will be tight with the gearbox in.
Image
David
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1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Sat 25 May, 2013 9:24 pm

A lot happened today! With a great amount of help from Justin (eddie), Toby (New123) and Craig (brother benz68) this 200D finally has a diesel back where it should be!

Image

Image

I used the mount arms that came with the engine from Ron, with a bit of fiddling everything bolted up.
Image

There is plenty of room, especially around the side of the gearbox where the linkages will go so I'm very happy there.
Image

There are still a few issues I need to solve though. The engine is quite far forward in the engine bay, the radiator fan is in the same spot as where the 6cyl was. The gearbox cross member is also as far forward as it can go, it is supporting the gearbox ok, but I would like if it could still go forward (or have the engine back) another 10mm or so...
Image

..and in case you missed it in the last photo, the tailshaft will need more than a few spacer washers before it will bolt up to the back of the gearbox!
Image

I have an original M121 engine mount arm and comparing this to the home made ones, this would move the engine back around 40mm which would give enough extra for the cross member and some more room for the radiator:
Image

However fitting this mount arm would lift the engine as well - here you can see the height difference in the home made and original mounts - approx. 50mm or about the height of the engine mount itself.
Image

So I will have to play around and see if the engine will sit too high with factory mount arms. Part of me says go for the easy route and leave the front mount arms as they are seeing as it currently fits. Part of me wants to have something that looks a bit better and moves the engine back, but at the same time I'm worried about the engine being too high or having too sharp an angle at the flex disc, and possibly losing some extra wiggle room for the floor shift linkages in the trans tunnel. Regardless of which way I go, I will take the tailshaft out and have it lengthened and balanced - I might also have them fit the later type yoke to the end so that it bolts straight up to the gearbox using the W115 type flex disc.

Overall though I am super happy about the progress that has been made today and very grateful for the help of my fellow ozbenzers! :notworthy:

Great to have the 200D back sitting at the right height and with the bonnet back on!
Image
(and boy am I glad that I grabbed that 220D for parts - I have already scavenged plenty of bits off it that I needed for this conversion! Best $150 I ever spent! :laughing6: )
David
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1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by John Green » Sat 25 May, 2013 10:09 pm

However fitting this mount arm would lift the engine as well - here you can see the height difference in the home made and original mounts - approx. 50mm or about the height of the engine mount itself.
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Sun 26 May, 2013 12:12 am

Cheeky bugger! (I even went out and double checked it too!) :laughing5:

But if I turned it the other way, the angle of the bolt hole wouldn't line up with the engine mount... :dontknow:

I seem to remember talking to Ron about the engine in his wagon, I seem to remember him saying about the engine sitting too high using the factory arms. I still have plenty of room in the engine bay though, at the moment the top of the valve cover is still sitting below bottom edge of the radiator support.
David
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1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by CraigB » Sun 26 May, 2013 2:03 pm

I wonder how much it will settle once those shiny new engine mounts have had an engine wiggling on them for a few weeks? Also don't know about finnies but the subframe to body mounts on a w108 would influence that total height relationship too. Re the tailshaft, I couldn't help wondering if that length you need wasn't on another car? Would be a long shot but if you wanted to measure it I would be happy to check anything i had lying about that might fit (and also others would do same i would think). Sorry i missed the day, but was good watching the boys first soccer match too!
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by Mercmad » Mon 27 May, 2013 8:36 pm

My engine does sit high but it has a factory mount on the drivers side and a modified mount on the passenger side to clear the oil filter on the 616 block. The earlier diesel engines didn't need that because the oil filter was mounted on the rear left of the block. i am happy where my engine now sits as it seems to clear everything well .
But this mount is upside down and on the wrong side. What about the mount arms on Drews lovely little rat nest?

Image

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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by drew56cus » Mon 27 May, 2013 8:47 pm

The 190D will be coming out of the hole on the weekend, so you have to remind me what your parts list was Dave!
Drew
'65 220SE 4.5 Frankenbenz finnie :)
'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Tue 28 May, 2013 11:19 am

But this mount is upside down and on the wrong side. What about the mount arms on Drews lovely little rat nest?
Goddammit! I just checked the part numbers and the engine mount arm (that I had sent from Germany via a postal forwarding service...) is a left hand one. :banghead: (My apologies JG you were right! :Doh: ). There is only one number difference in the part numbers, A121 223 46 04 - but on the one I have it's a bit hard to read so the seller must have read the 5 as a 6! :pale:

Drew, I will send you an email as I may need some more bits from you! :book:
David
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by eddie » Mon 03 Jun, 2013 11:31 am

Hey Dave,

is there going to be a significant difference when you change the mounts?? does it fit under the bonnet as it is at the moment??

or is this more a fan up against the radiator issue?

Have you managed to get any further with the install?
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Mon 03 Jun, 2013 3:40 pm

I don't think changing the mounts would move the engine around too much - it fits fine under the bonnet where it is at the moment - there is plenty of room all around and easily enough clearance for the radiator. Although there is more of a gap at the rear - the 6cyl that was in there had its valve cover right up against the firewall (almost touching), where it is now there is about 100-150mm clearance. For now I think I'll just leave it where it is seeing as there is plenty of room and it is clear of everything else.

I've been busy working the last week (I had to work 8-4 Saturday AND 7-5 Sunday) so no more progress, but this coming weekend is looking better and we have a public holiday on the Monday so that should give me some time to go tinker. There are still plenty of other jobs to be done such as flushing the fuel lines, installing the new fuel filter, wiring up the glow plugs and all the other engine ancillaries etc etc.
David
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1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Mon 21 Oct, 2013 2:55 pm

I apologise that this has turned into one of those epically slow build threads, but I have been making progress behind the scenes. Yesterday I got both front engine mounts fully bolted in, we had an issue at the tech day with the bolts being too long but that is all sorted now and I have nearly sorted out the issue with the rear cross member and tailshaft. The challenges here have been with getting the two different types of flex disc and gearbox mounting to work!

The 110 flex disc on the left has larger bolt holes and is flat on either side, wheras the 115 flex disc has offset raised sections which fit into a rebate on the yoke.
Image

So to remedy this, I had some spacers made up that allow the 110 flex disc to bolt up to the 115 gearbox yoke. The other holes remain as is so that the 110 tailshaft bolts up as normal (and before you ask, no I am not going to re-use the flex disc in this photo!)
Image

Here you can see the differences between the 115 gearbox mount on the right and the W110 gearbox mount on the left:
Image

The later gearbox mount has two bolts that mount to the crossmember and one bolt that connects to the gearbox (also note the rebate for the later type flex disc on the gearbox yoke):
Image

The finnie gearbox mount has a single bolt to the crossmember and is bolted to a bracket on the end of the gearbox. In order to retain the original crossmember but have it bolt up to the 115 box, I had a captive bolt welded to the top bracket of the 110 gearbox mounting bracket.

Image

After a test fit it all seems to bolt up nicely - however I think I may have gone a little too low now with the gearbox mount - one of the bellhousing bolts is now just hitting the steering damper:
Image

So I will try to turn this around so that the bolt head is at the other end and the excess thread is sticking out the other way.

Meanwhile, I have had the radiator reconditioned, it was in very good condition and did not require a new core or tanks, but according to the radiator guys the core was about 50% blocked.
Image

Factory fresh!
Image

So all my brackets and the tailshaft are coming back out for a clean and coat of paint. Next job will hopefully be to sort something out with the exhaust!
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by pastelgrey300D » Thu 02 Jan, 2014 9:45 pm

The xmas break has given me a chance to spend some much needed time on this. Clutch master is in and all hooked up:

Image

I tried bleeding it but still have air in the lines, I think I may have an airlock in the flexible hose which I had made up (custom to fit the W115 box):
Image

Any tips for bleeding the clutch? Does this need to be pressure bled or could I do it with a vacuum bleeder?

Shifter is in. Moving through all gears as it should be. Linkage clips supplied speedily by MB spares! For now I'm just trying to get everything fitting and working and will tidy it all up once it's all in and working.
Image

Had to mount the shifter further up on the trans tunnel - this is as far back as I could have mounted it anyway beacuse of the space in the tunnel for the linkages and clearance to the flex disc/tailshaft (also so it didn't hit the center console cushion in 2nd or 4th). Thanks to CraigB for the use of his die set to cut the threads on the modified linkages! :notworthy:
Image

I'm still stuck on the issue with the steering damper and steering center link being too close to the bottom of the gearbox. Even with the steering damper removed, the center link is still quite close - and that's in the straight ahead position - I'm worried that it will foul at full lock or be too close. I can't move the engine back any further or the oil filter will foul the front subframe:
Image

And I don't want to raise the rear gearbox mount as the tailshaft is lined up perfectly and I'm worried that raising the trans will put extra stress on the flex disc. So worst case scenario I think I'll need to have a custom center link made up which wouldn't be too hard - any thoughts from the V8 conversion guys on getting around this?
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by CraigB » Thu 02 Jan, 2014 10:42 pm

My only possible useful comment is that loop in the clutch line won't help trapped air, but once the air is out it won't matter. I think there is enough flex in the line that you could just pull it down or wire it down while you bleed and then let it go.
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Re: Dave’s 1967 W110 200D Re-dieselization Project Thread

Post by Mercmad » Fri 03 Jan, 2014 9:59 am

The gear box needs to be slightly higher. i didn't dee this before but there are two different styles of trans crossmembers . The early style with the round mount and the later type with the triangle mount. But.. there are also a few lengths in the crossmembers .I have used a W115 cross member and my engine sits about 30mm above the front axle . The shaft is dead on to the center bearing. As for bleeding your clutch,ui think you need to make sure the brakes are bled fully if the Clutch uses the same reservoir. Then use a pressure bleeder to get the air out .
I made my own pressure bleeder using a garden sprayer ($28 from bunnings) a peice of plastic tube and an old cap with hole through it and a brass barb fitting.
Just screw the cap on ,and with a liter of brake fluid in the pump,give the pump a couple of pumps (not much more is needed!!) .Open the clutch bleed nipple and wait for the bubbles to stop coming out.

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