Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

1961-1968: a.k.a "Finnie" or "Heckflosse" models
190, 190D, 200, 200D, 220b, 220Sb, 220SEb, 230, 230S, 250SE coupe, 280SE coupe, 280SE 3.5 coupe, 220SEb cabrio., 250SE conv., 280SE cabrio., 280SE 3.5 Cabrio., 300SE, 300SE coupe, 300SE conv., 300SEL
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JohnBSA
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Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by JohnBSA » Sat 19 Nov, 2011 11:31 am

Just came across a 1988 letter I had forgotten I had, from Dietmar G. Haug, then Group Manager, National Car Sales, Mercedes-Benz (Australia) Pty Ltd. I had just bought my first W111 220SEb (1961) and he was replying to a letter I had written to M-B Australia asking about the numbers of these cars Australian assembled. (Just for the record, Mr Haug later went on to more senior jobs with M-B both here and in Germany.)

He wrote - "Mercedes-Benz cars were assembled in Australia from January 1959 to March 1965" -
and
"Number of Mercedes-Benz cars assembled in Austraial by model:

190 90 190c auto 78
190D 48 220Sb 2304
220S 354 220Sb auto 912
220SE 18 220SEb 810
190b 216 220SEb auto 1248
190Db 90
190c 222 Total 6390

This might be of interest, as I can't recall seeing any figures like these recently. Any one else with confirming or different info?
John

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pastelgrey300D
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by pastelgrey300D » Sat 19 Nov, 2011 11:44 am

Perfect timing John! I was about to post asking the same question! As part of the national rally our club is displaying some cars at the national motor museum in Birdwood and we wanted to make a point that Benzes were indeed built here (currently there are zero in the museum). So hopefully we can have a few oz-built pontons and finnies on display. Very interesting looking at some of those figures - I would not have guessed that the Auto 220SEb's outnumbered the manual cars!

If possible, could you please post or email a scanned copy of the letter? It would be great to have for reference.

Thanks so much for sharing! :notworthy:
David
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by cuisses » Sat 19 Nov, 2011 12:05 pm

I think you'll find the forum sponsor still has one of the 48 190D roundies still for sale.

I have, what I think is an obvious question. When these cars were "assembled" in Australia, did they assemble the engine here (i.e. put all the bearings, crankshaft, pistons etc into the thing), or did the engine come fully assembled from the Fatherland in a box?
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Brad220S
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Brad220S » Sat 19 Nov, 2011 1:57 pm

Fantastic find.

One of only 354 manual 220S and guy a few housed from me has one of 90 190s (interestingly a roundy that's newer than my finnie) happy with that info.

And good ammo for the argument we have been having with a guy that just bought a coupe who we just can not convince that they did assemble Mercedes in Aus.

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mercmad » Sat 19 Nov, 2011 4:33 pm

And that was only the CKD cars, there were also a lot of mercedes bought into Australia by merBenz (prior to 1956),which became pyrox in later years . merbenz was the main agent but there several others importing cars and trucks too.
Really interesting info and today they actually refuse to divulge such info. Others have tried to find out how many 6.3 and 6.9 were officially imported. There are only 26 left on the road in the UK so a decent number of the poms 6.9's must have ended up here.

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mick_Marsh » Sun 20 Nov, 2011 1:01 pm

David,
Jeff, who you have spoken to in recent times, is currently in the process of getting his AMI assembled finnie ready for the National Rally.
1965 W112 300SE Heckflosse
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mercmad » Sun 20 Nov, 2011 6:39 pm

Aussie assembled finnys are also the rustiest in the World. :laughing6:

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by John Green » Sun 20 Nov, 2011 8:19 pm

cuisses wrote:I think you'll find the forum sponsor still has one of the 48 190D roundies still for sale.

I have, what I think is an obvious question. When these cars were "assembled" in Australia, did they assemble the engine here (i.e. put all the bearings, crankshaft, pistons etc into the thing), or did the engine come fully assembled from the Fatherland in a box?
Mine is one of the 90 190Db's. And yes the Australian cars had MAJOR rust issues. This means that owning a rust free example is very special.
M.B Spares & Service 14-16 Lyell St, Fyshwick ACT. Ph 02 6239 1099

http://mbspares.com.au - Supporting Australia's Mercedes-Benz Enthusiasts.

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by JohnBSA » Mon 21 Nov, 2011 9:49 am

Good to have this feedback coming in.
Pastelgrey, have sent you a PM re my M-B (Aust) correspondence,
J.

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by pastelgrey300D » Mon 21 Nov, 2011 12:50 pm

Just came across this site:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/7197/f ... -australia

Which has some more detailed history on the DB-AMI story. From reading this it looks like the engines were brought over ready to drop in.
Between 1959 and 1965, the Mercedes Benz Australia factory turned out almost 7500 cars in Port Melbourne. The cars were mostly 190 and 220 models with locally made seats and trim, batteries, tyres and available only in the exterior paint colours of blue, green, black and three shades of grey.
Their count is slightly higher, but I suspect this may have been rounded up - i'd trust the figures John supplied.

Also, another site with some quotes from Herr Haug:

http://www.pressportal.com.au/news/121/ ... 08-04.html
David
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1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by John Green » Mon 06 Aug, 2012 9:27 pm

Image
M.B Spares & Service 14-16 Lyell St, Fyshwick ACT. Ph 02 6239 1099

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mercmad » Mon 06 Aug, 2012 9:51 pm

Is that AMI? i see vanguards anhd a triumph herald there too. The truck on the right looks like a Tempo Matador.

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by John Green » Mon 06 Aug, 2012 10:50 pm

Mercmad wrote:Is that AMI? .
Yes.
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by devilishdesigner » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 8:27 am

Ah, that might help to explain why my '65 was built for a different market - built O/S for a custom order perhaps which fell through so it became stock for the colonies?
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by pastelgrey300D » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 11:36 am

This reminds me that I should actually post up the article that I wrote for our club magazine back in March - I also managed to catch up with JohnBSA and view his fantastic collection! :drool:

_____________________

Australian Made – Locally Built Mercedes-Benz Passenger Cars

It is a piece of Australian Automotive history that is often forgotten. If you were to ask the average person in the street to name a car that was built in Australia back in the 1950s and 60s, Holden would be the first to spring to mind for many. Plenty of car enthusiasts would be quick to point out that Ford and Chrysler started local production in the early 60's after having assembled imported models for many years. A few would remember that Renault, VW, Standard, the Rootes group and BMC built plenty of cars here, many of which were european models that had been adapted to Australian conditions. Most people however, would be surprised to learn that Mercedes built thousands of cars in Australia from January 1959 to March 1965, scoring many local firsts and cementing their reputation as one of the world's finest Automobile producers along the way.

The corporate journey taken by Mercedes-Benz began with the 30th July, 1958, set-up of Mercedes-Benz Australia Pty Ltd by Germany’s Daimler Benz AG and Australia’s Standard Motor Products.

Think of Mercedes-Benz today and images of sleek supercars such as the SLS cruising along a city street or a winding coastal road spring to mind. But when the company was founded here 50 years ago, in an economy 'riding on the sheep’s back' and dependant on major infrastructure projects, the brand was being largely experienced by farmers and truck drivers.

From 1953, importing a car from overseas required an import licence from Canberra. The imported car market was small and licensing restrictions stifled the market potential for imported vehicles. Between 1952 and 1955 an average of only 200 Mercedes cars and 50 trucks were sold each year.

World War II had only ended in 1945; rationing didn’t really end until 1948. By 1955 the only prestige German cars on the market, apart from Mercedes-Benz and Porsche models, were from Borgward. Other German marques such as DKW, Goggomobil, Goliath, Lloyd, NSU and Opel were available but in small numbers. Most of these cars were light economy cars or 'bubble' cars and positioned at the bottom of the market.

Mercedes-Benz cars were competing with Jaguars and Rovers from England and with the visually impressive Chevrolets, Pontiacs and Dodges from the USA. But Australians have always loved motor sports and Mercedes was a star overseas. The Australian motoring public admired beautiful Mercedes car models like the 1954 'Gullwing' and Daimler-Benz (DBAG) executive Willy Zeh, who'd come to Melbourne in the early 50s, saw the market potential for the brand down under.

Zeh persuaded DBAG's Stuttgart headquarters to set up a central office here, in what some would regard as our buyers heartland, in suburban Camberwell in Melbourne's eastern suburbs. The company set up offices in 1955, where the vision for the brand's Australian growth emerged from the local DBAG team. The team was led from 1958 by Dr Werner Friedlander, and inspired by some keen car dealers.

Image
The AMI Mercedes-Benz Division Showroom, Sydney 1959

Dietmar Haug, a senior MB executive in Australia (1960–2000) says Friedlander was “a thinking person, and good with figures” who pioneered the idea of bringing car parts to Australia for assembly. But where?

Enter Allan Hodges Cheetham, veteran of two world wars, retired CEO of Standard Motor Products (Standard) and a Leongatha, Victoria, sheep farmer. Having met Cheetham through a Standard executive, Friedlander retained him as an adviser. As luck would have it, Cheetham’s former company had excess capacity at its Port Melbourne plant where it made Vanguards, Triumphs and Fiat tractors. Cheetham saw the sense of assembling MB vehicles and selling them through Standard’s wholesale and retail operations. He and a Standard sales executive, Keith Horner – later to be the famously aggressive sales boss of Ford Australia – went to Germany and secured the rights to assemble and distribute the three-pointed star in Australia.

That deal with Stuttgart led to the founding of Mercedes-Benz Australia Pty Ltd (MBAU) on 30th July, 1958, two-thirds owned by Standard and one-third by DBAG. The company was now up and running. Its aim, said the press statement, was to “in a step-by-step manner assemble the Mercedes-Benz vehicle model range, with an emphasis on heavy trucks … and promote the export possibilities to countries of the South Pacific Region”.

In 1959 Standard changed its name to Australian Motor Industries (AMI), German technicians arrived to train workers to assemble MB cars and Cheetham was appointed MBAU Managing Director. On 12th February, 1959, the first MB car – a 220 S sedan – came off the AMI Port Melbourne line into the eager arms of Victorian Premier Henry Bolte who was photographed holding its three-pointed star. The brand’s former limited distribution through independent distributors was set to expand, leveraging off AMI’s network.

Image
The first 220S off the line—and perhaps the first documented star theft in Australia?!

In 1960, the new W111 'Fintail' range commenced production, alongside the 4 cylinder 190 and 190D 'ponton' models. Production of the W110 190c commenced in 1962. The locally made cars were basically complete knock down (CKD) kits sent from Germany but with additional local input - the bodies were assembled and painted at AMI and locally manufactured batteries, tyres, seats and upholstery were fitted to meet local content requirements. Cars were available in a limited range of colours - you could chose from Black, Graphite Grey, Light Grey, White grey, Green Grey and Medium Blue. In 1961 a 220Sb was priced at $5740 ($6520 for a 220SEb) - The fully imported 220SEb coupe was priced at $10,630 (roughly the price of a 220Sb and 190b put together!) - in comparison a 1961 EK Holden was just $2050. By 1965 the prices had risen modestly to $6064 for a 220Sb, $6406 for a 220SEb and $4998 for a W110 190c - with around a $500 price premium for an Automatic transmission.

Image
Release of the 220Sb at the National Distributor Conference, 1960

The 'Global Financial Crisis' is still fresh in our minds today, but back in the early 1960's Australia was also experiencing a 'credit squeeze'. Combined with an increase in sales tax, new car sales plummeted 30%. This hit AMI hard and in July 1961 AMI sold its stake and Daimler-Benz took full control of MBAU. Cheetham appointed 10 MB distributors and, with dealer input, established the capital city flagships – Lanes Motors in Melbourne (December 1961) and Sydney’s York Motors (December 1962). In 1964 he appointed his assistant, Dietmar Haug, as Car Sales Manager.

MBAU’s first service instructor at the AMI plant, Jack Mawdsley recalled Cheetham as “a tough boss”. Dietmar Haug says three qualities underpinned Cheetham’s success.

“First, he was very thorough and hands-on - When we were assembling cars he had his own man on the production line, verifying that every car was spot on. He’d look at every payment that came in and sign every cheque that went out. Secondly, he was a great marketing guy who developed the system of distributors in every state. Thirdly, he had great business sense. One example was his decision to stop assembling cars here.”

That decision was made in 1964, when AMI planned to survive by assembling Toyotas and the federal government tightened local content rules. Production was wound down in March 1965. “It was the right decision because the government’s local content laws demanded Australian-made product in manufacturing – meaning we couldn’t maintain the integrity of our product,” Haug says. Holden alone was manufacturing around 500 cars per day - combined with the other local manufacturers there was simply not enough local capacity to manufacture components (especially to the standard of quality required by DB).

The ensuing imports were remarkable, including the 230 SL 'pagoda roof' Mercedes launched here in 1964. Fully imported W110 and W111 sedans began to take over from the locally made cars in 1965. The updated W110 200 and 200D and W111 230S arrived in late 1965 along with the new W108 range. Commercial vehicles were boosted by the 1965 arrival of the legendary LS 1418 truck, followed by the first MB bus in 1969.

A letter from Mr Dietmar Haug at Mercedes-Benz (Australia) PTY LTD dated 11/07/1988 gives the following breakdown of Australian production:

W120-121 (PONTON) W110-111 (FINTAIL)
190 (roundie) 90 190c 222
190D 48 190c Auto 78
190b 216 220Sb 2304
190Db 90 220Sb Auto 912
220S 354 220SEb 810
220SE 18 220SEb Auto 1248
TOTAL 816 5574
TOTAL PONTON/FINTAIL 6390

The total of 6390 is a little less than the 7500 that is often referred to, however the larger figure may also include commercial vehicles that were assembled during the same period.

Image
Fabulous Fintails - Marriage of body and drive line

IDENTIFYING

The Australian made Ponton and Fintail sedans appeared visually identical to their German made siblings. The main visual differences inside were the locally made seats (which had a different appearance to the MB tex and cloth of the German models) and the locally sourced carpet and headlining. Under the bonnet, Australian built cars had the engine bay painted black, whereas German made cars had the engine bay in the same colour as the body. During body shell production, Australian assembled cars were stamped with their own 14 digit production number (usually on the bonnet slam panel in front of the radiator and prefixed with an 'A') and a small ID plate was affixed to the inner front wing with the Australian body number. Once the car was fully assembled, it was then fitted with a Daimler Benz chassis plate and the official chassis number was stamped into the left hand front chassis member. This was done to ensure that the Australian assembled cars maintained continuity with any changes to components/running gear after a certain chassis number. All Australian assembled cars also had a '6' as the 7th digit of the chassis number (i.e. 111014-60-123456) as opposed to German made cars where the 7th digit would be a '2' for a RHD car.

Image
Body assembly

One unfortunate side effect arising from the local manufacturing process was that the locally built bodies were not as thoroughly painted in concealed areas. Hidden areas such as behind the dashboard, up under the cowl panels and inside the sill box sections etc were either left unpainted or were only lightly spray painted due to limited access. Whilst there are still many examples of well preserved Australian assembled Ponton and Fintail saloons on the roads the general consensus is that the fully imported cars tend to fare better in terms of rust protection.

WORTHY OF A SPOT IN THE MUSEUM
I was fortunate enough to visit one of our local club members a few months ago and view a very well preserved and original example of an early Australian assembled vehicle. This Black 1961 220SEb was a regular fixture at the National Motor Museum from 1988 for approximately 10 years. John BSA has been kind enough to share the following story of his special car.

"I purchased this completely original and unmolested car for the very purpose of display in the Museum, at the encouragement of Ian Macdonald, a very well respected car and motorbike enthusiast. With the then director of the Birdwood Mill Museum, Jon Chittleborough, and with other distinguished motoring enthusiasts, George Brooks and Len Vigar, Ian Macdonald had in the 1980s prepared a report for the Museum suggesting cars which should be on display in the core collection. An Australian assembled 220SEb was thought of as a most appropriate car to have on display. Unfortunately of these authors only the former Museum director, Jon Chittleborough, is still around.

During the car's time in the Museum it was regularly taken out and 'exercised', including preparation for and participation in the 1993 Grand Prix Rally from Melbourne to Adelaide, held in conjunction with the Adelaide G.P. For this purpose the car was fitted with the stiffer standard 'export' front springs and rear compensator spring (as supplied by M-B for tough places like Africa) and appropriate safety harness, Halda Tripmaster, stopwatches for timing, extra lights, etc.

Jon Chittleborough navigated for me in the rally and we did modestly well for our class. Managed to get up the Colingrove Hillclimb in 49.9 seconds, for instance (not bad considering the power to weight ratio). Nearly made 'the ton' at the Ford proving ground at Geelong, and generally had a very good time. All standard engine, standard tune. At that stage the car had done about 64,000 miles.

After the G.P. rally the car went back into the Museum with all visible rallying gear removed. I had been told the car was too good to risk in rallying, so for later rallying we sourced another Finny which was prepared just for rallying, but with standard set up as the M-B factory rally cars had used in the early 1960s.

A change of management at the National Motor Museum eventually led to me being asked to remove the car. I was happy with that arrangement, as owners were encouraged to take their cars out and use them from time to time. Very necessary to keep the vehicles in good shape. Maybe as well, some people thought a standard saloon M-B was a bit ordinary, when there were more exotic M-Bs around. But that attitude was missing the point of this car's history and originality.

When on display the car was described as 'Australian assembled', and that was an important aspect of its reason for being on display. Since withdrawal from the Museum this 220SEb has been kept on historic registration through the Sporting Car Club of SA and sometimes used in SCC runs etc to keep it in good form. Mileage is still less than 70,000 and the car is still as original, except for the two (correct) external mirrors and the upgraded springs as fitted for the rally are still on the car. A pair of lap-sash seat belts are also fitted now."

These days John's son Martin has this 1961 220SEb and has generously allowed for the car to be displayed at the National Motor Museum in Birdwood as part of our club exhibit. The car will be on display during our visit to the museum for the National Rally on the 8th of April.

Thanks to JohnBSA and also the following for reference:

Fallah, A 2008 - Mercedes-Benz Celebrates 50 years in Australia - http://www.caradvice.com.au/15317/merce ... australia/

Roleff, P 2000 - Southern Star, Mercedes Benz in Australia, DaimlerChrysler Australia/Pacific Pty Ltd
David
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1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mercmad » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 1:27 pm

I had a look at the national libraries Archives and theres a couple of pics of the mobile school ,, but i also found this, a Vangaurd Race transporter. Just what would be needed to tow a SL to the shows and track days.
anthony-vanguard.jpg

And back to the topic
Mercedes panel van Model 319 ca. 1965.jpeg
.
Mercedes Model 319 panel van showing tools and spare parts ca. 1965.jpeg
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by pastelgrey300D » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 2:29 pm

If you get a chance, the book 'Southern Star, Mercedes Benz in Australia' is well worth a read - it was released by DaimlerChrysler Australia/Pacific Pty Ltd in 2000, written by Paul Roleff. It chronicles the history of the brand here in Australia from the very early days right up to the turn of the century. Lots of pictures and a great read - most of the pictures from my articles and a fair amount of content came from that book. I remember reading about that van that they used as their mobile training outfit - it covered huge distances and was present at many events and shows throghout the 60s - but I remember reading a comment about how it could be almost be pedalled faster than it went under its own steam, especially when loaded up with all that gear....
David
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mercmad » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 6:21 pm

Yes I have that book. A great read and a lot of Merc enthusuiasts around the world have copies .
The 319 's slow with the tin little diesel to haul them along and a famous car collector in Australia had a OM617 installed in one to make it go faster. It didn't, It only made more noise and used more fuel.. :laughing6:

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by John Green » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 9:45 pm

Have a look at the link below. You will see an article I have just written on the history of AMI and their involvement with Mercedes-Benz. It duplicates much of what david wrote, but also adds a little to the early history of AMI.

http://www.mbspares.com.au/Gallery/An-A ... -Benz.aspx
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by cuisses » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 11:32 pm

Great article John, most amusing. To summarize:

"These cars have bad paint, poor bodywork, inferior interiors and they rust real quick - and by the way I have one for sale." :Doh:

With a pitch like that I can tell you never worked on Parramatta Road.
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by 420 SE » Tue 07 Aug, 2012 11:55 pm

I wish I remember what my 220 SEb chassis number was, it was 3 digit, it was built in Australia and in 1962 so must have been fairly early in the series.

It had bad rust when I had it, and we are talking 1983. But it had an amazingly powerful engine for the car, and someone had been in and chromed most of the injector lines and many pieces in the engine bay. It was blue with red interior. Original Vic rego was HOT - 830 (I still have one of the plates).

It was my first car.
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by John Green » Wed 08 Aug, 2012 8:40 am

cuisses wrote:Great article John, most amusing. To summarize:

"These cars have bad paint, poor bodywork, inferior interiors and they rust real quick - and by the way I have one for sale." :Doh:

With a pitch like that I can tell you never worked on Parramatta Road.
Honest John's car sales... I have made a small edit to the article as structually they were fine. It was the quality of the paint that was an issue. As an example I would suspect that AMI didn't have the ability to dunk the cars in primer as part of the production process.
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mercmad » Wed 08 Aug, 2012 11:23 am

I have cut up both Aussie and German built finnys and it's true, the German cars were painted inside the cowl sections etc and although some rusted in the front odf the sill box, the rest of the bosdy work survives well. It wasn't great paint but it was better than the bare steel in the local cars.

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Bartman4800 » Sun 21 Oct, 2012 12:08 pm

Mine should be an Oz built 220 Sb manual from '60. But I could not find any traces of black paint in the engine bay. It is true that there is no paint inside the hollow sections. Some of it still looked shiny when I cut it open. :whistle:

I have been told that the Australian ones can easily be pointed out by the fact that bonnet and bootlid have torsion springs instead of compression springs.

Is that true?

Regards, Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Brad220S
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Brad220S » Sun 21 Oct, 2012 3:41 pm

It appears to me that's true, the 2 spare cars I have (both German) have different hinges to my Aussie car. But that could also be the fact they are both newer models. I'm not sure.
Easiest way is the dash crash pad is different. Over the top of the speedo on the German cars is one piece, Aussie cars and in a couple of pieces.

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Mercmad » Sun 21 Oct, 2012 4:32 pm

Torsion spring cars are very early models. Possibly among the first few that were built here using up old stock from Germany (1959 versions),The big majority have the spring hinges.

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Bartman4800
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Bartman4800 » Thu 25 Oct, 2012 12:17 am

After consulting the MB spares website, with their very elaborate explanation on chassis and engine number I am now a lot wiser:

My chassis number starts with 111 012 20

Which means (according to John) it is a 220Sb, RHD built in Germany with a manual transmission.

So that is why my car was in the body colour under the bonnet. :snooty:

That fact that it has torsion springs on both lids makes it just an early car.
Could the car have come to Oz via the UK?

Is there a way of finding this out?


Regards, Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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pastelgrey300D
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by pastelgrey300D » Thu 25 Oct, 2012 9:45 am

Unless you have some history it would be very hard to find out whether the car was ordered and delivered here, ordered here and collected overseas (as part of the european delivery program which was not uncommon at the time) or ordered and collected overseas and then brought over as a personal import.

A good start would be to send off for the datacard - see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=12662&p=82571

By looking at the options on the datacard you can figure out whether or not it was ordered here - for example my 190c which was an australian delivered, german assembled car had the following options:

461 - Instrument With Mileage Reading And English Lettering
471 - Special Export Version For Bad Road Conditions And Oil Bath Air Cleaner On Export Vehicles
619 - 613 + 616
613 - " Lamp Unit, Asymmetrical, L.H. Traffic"
616 - " Rear Turn Signal Lamps, Orange - Australia/Italy/Great Britain"
668 – 662 + 666
662 - 10 Liters Of Fuel
666 - 10 Liters Of Fuel And Mode Of Packing Ve Ii
681 - Owners Manual, Labels/Id Plates In English

So all the above codes, especially the 471 and 666 point to a car that was ordered/spec'd for Australia. Later cars (from around 1966 on) had a single code '625 - Version for Australia' which replaced most of the codes above.
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
+ other classics

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by sf0999 » Mon 04 Aug, 2014 9:22 pm

I found this article written up in Nov 1959 about the Australian production. The ads for are also worth a read.

Steve
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W111 1961 220S Classic Rally Car "Eugen"
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Aussieponton » Sun 10 Jun, 2018 9:04 am

190DB 65 90.jpeg
190DB 65 90.jpeg
John Green wrote:
Sun 20 Nov, 2011 8:19 pm
cuisses wrote:I think you'll find the forum sponsor still has one of the 48 190D roundies still for sale.

I have, what I think is an obvious question. When these cars were "assembled" in Australia, did they assemble the engine here (i.e. put all the bearings, crankshaft, pistons etc into the thing), or did the engine come fully assembled from the Fatherland in a box?
Mine is one of the 90 190Db's. And yes the Australian cars had MAJOR rust issues. This means that owning a rust free example is very special.
Hi John,

I have #65 / 90 all original with 50,000
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Aussieponton » Sun 10 Jun, 2018 9:09 am

pastelgrey300D wrote:
Thu 25 Oct, 2012 9:45 am
Unless you have some history it would be very hard to find out whether the car was ordered and delivered here, ordered here and collected overseas (as part of the european delivery program which was not uncommon at the time) or ordered and collected overseas and then brought over as a personal import.

A good start would be to send off for the datacard - see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=12662&p=82571

By looking at the options on the datacard you can figure out whether or not it was ordered here - for example my 190c which was an australian delivered, german assembled car had the following options:

461 - Instrument With Mileage Reading And English Lettering
471 - Special Export Version For Bad Road Conditions And Oil Bath Air Cleaner On Export Vehicles
619 - 613 + 616
613 - " Lamp Unit, Asymmetrical, L.H. Traffic"
616 - " Rear Turn Signal Lamps, Orange - Australia/Italy/Great Britain"
668 – 662 + 666
662 - 10 Liters Of Fuel
666 - 10 Liters Of Fuel And Mode Of Packing Ve Ii
681 - Owners Manual, Labels/Id Plates In English

So all the above codes, especially the 471 and 666 point to a car that was ordered/spec'd for Australia. Later cars (from around 1966 on) had a single code '625 - Version for Australia' which replaced most of the codes above.
Hi,I read your post with great interest. I have #65/90 Australian assembled 190DB & cant find the key.Do you have any advice on how I go about this? Many thanks for any help! Martin

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Aussieponton » Mon 11 Jun, 2018 5:58 pm

1961 190DB 01.JPG
1961 190DB 01.JPG
1961 190DB 01.JPG
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pastelgrey300D
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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by pastelgrey300D » Tue 12 Jun, 2018 10:16 am

Hi Martin,

The procedure for obtaining your datacard has changed, you can only request it via an MB dealer. If you go in there with proof of ownership and the VIN they should be able to help.

Some info about keys and how to read codes etc here: http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/other/keys.htm

and here: http://www.mbzponton.org/valueadded/other/keys2.htm

Whereabouts are you located? I know of several locksmiths here in Adelaide that have key blanks and one in Goodwood who was able to cut keys from the datacard for my Finnie (tip: if you log in and go to 'user control panel' there is a field you can fill in for your location).
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
+ other classics

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by Aussieponton » Tue 12 Jun, 2018 10:13 pm

Hi David,

I am so grateful for your reply.I am based in Queensland & I Have my Benz in storage in Perth. Navigating some logistical challenges! I am even having trouble negotiating the VIN number.I have the chassis number & build number.If i sent you what I have,would you be kind enough to offer me some guidance?

Many thanks

Marrtin

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Re: Australia Assembled Roundies and Finnies

Post by pastelgrey300D » Thu 14 Jun, 2018 10:56 am

Hi Martin, no problem. Once you've made 5 posts you should be able to use the private message system.

The trick with these Aussie built cars is that they have both a VIN/chassis number and an Australian production body number. These can often be confused.

The VIN/Chassis number will be the same as the one stamped on the official Daimler benz id plate: Image

The Australian body number will usually be prefixed with an A and end in the same number as the body number on the MB Aus plate i.e. A121XXXXXXXX65

Just to add to the confusion, around 1960 MB changed the way VIN numbers were composed.

http://mbzponton.org/pax058/maint/chassis.htm

Anyway, see how you go and happy to help out!
David
1967 W111 230S - Horizonblau
1965 W110 190c - Mittelrot
1967 W110 200D - Weiss (work in progress)
+ other classics

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