190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

190E 2.3-16, 190E 2.5-16, 190E Evolution 1 & 2 models
16v specific information.
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Jelfes
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190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Jelfes » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 11:59 am

I'm looking at updating my current 190E 2.0L and purchacing a more special looking and more responsive car like a 190E Evo1 2.5L 16V or a 2.3 16V cosworth engines.
Can anybody tell me what would be the better car to purchace of the 2 as an every day car and what known problems these car may have besides the obvious ie FPR, AICV, FPR ect?
Also what would be the going prices for these 190's in good condition?
I've read in some articles that things like head gasket and timming chains are a know problems with these cosworth engines.
As for the Evo1 2.5 16V being so rare, are parts readily available in Australia and whats insurance like for these cars?
All your thoughts would be appreciated. :?:

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Ivanerrol
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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Ivanerrol » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 12:37 pm

I.M.H.O.
None of the above.

190e 2.6 is very nice for every day driving.
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Jelfes » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 1:08 pm

Ivan,

The car I'm talking about is a 190E Evo1 2.5L 16V cosworth 4 cylinder engine. Not the 190E 2.6L 6 cylinder engine.

Are you saying to keep away from the 2.3L & 2.5L and get a 2.6L 190E?

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by oz coz » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 6:29 pm

Hi Jelfes,

All Evo and Evo2 190E's are left hand drive and are too young to be road registered in NSW. The VIN numbers for 2.3-16's start as WDB 201034...., 2.5-16's start as WDB 201035...., and Evo's start as WDB201036...etc.

The Cosworth engine is not known to have a head gasket problem. The head gasket has a greater number of water passages compared to other M102 engines and given normal levels of maintenance they have a long service life.

The 2.3-16 has a single row timing chain and the 2.5-16 has a double row timing chain. The latter should be more durable. If they are changed within the normal service periods recommended, they are reliable. Of equal importance is to service the chain tensioner and the chain guide rails. The consequences of not doing so are no different than any other engine , but the cost of repairs relative to the purchase price of the vehicle are somewhat unfavorably disproportionate!

Most parts are still available for the 16 valvers but some are now only available from the MB Classic Car Centre with considerably inflated prices.

In round figures, some 20,000 2.3-16's were made and 5,000 2.5-16's. 502 Evo's and 502 Evo2's were made, again all were LHD. There are considerable differences between a 2.5-16 and an Evo version of the 2.5-16 and fakes in LHD versions do exist.

They are an excellent road car and are generally felt to be addictive. Be prepared to be extremely patient and fussy in selecting one. There are not many in Australia even including the recent influx from Hong Kong. Consulting with an expert before purchasing is a necessity.
oz coz

1986 190E 2.3-16 Blue-Black
1990 300TE Diamond Blue
1987 190E 2.6 Signal Red

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Jelfes
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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Jelfes » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 6:54 pm

Oz,

Thanks for all the great info.

The 1989 2.5-16V I'm looking at is in fact a right hand drive and the only info I only have at the moment is a vehicle ID 4410740 and the owner claims thats its an Evo model in immaculate condition with low miles.

Whether its a fake or an original I don't know as I haven't seen the car in person as yet. But I will use your VIN information to check.

If it turns out to be a genuine evo using your info. What would be the price range for one?

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Greg in Oz » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 7:41 pm

Jelfes,

As Oz Coz has already stated, there were just 502 each of the 2.5-16 Evo and Evo2. ALL WERE LEFT HAND DRIVE.

I would be very suspicious of a seller claiming to have a genuine RHD version. It would either have to be a fake or one that has been converted to right hand drive. I suspect the former as surely no one would be silly enough to devalue a genuine example by converting it to RHD.

I am aware of just one genuine Evo2 in Australia and that is a very low kilometre example in the Lindsay Fox collection. There was an almost zero kilometre example in the UK discussed recently on this forum and its asking price equated to something like $170,000.

The car you are looking at may be a genuine 2.5-16 but I believe the above comments should give you some idea as to whether or not it is a genuine Evo or Evo2.

Greg
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by 70499 » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 8:00 pm

Are you getting confused with the different models?

Evo1
Evo2
2.3-16
2.5-16
Standard 190E MK1 and MK2 versions 1.8l, 2.0l, 2.3l, 2.6l.
Brad.

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Jelfes » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 8:28 pm

Here is the add posted for the 190E 2.5-16V Evolution.

I'm sure someone can pick it if its a non genuin Evo.

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/pri ... &silo=1011

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by 70499 » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 8:30 pm

Jelfes wrote:Here is the add posted for the 190E 2.5-16V Evolution.

I'm sure someone can pick it if its a non genuin Evo.

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/pri ... &silo=1011


Its just a standard 2.5-16.
Brad.

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Ivanerrol » Thu 01 Jul, 2010 9:22 pm

One ad for two different cars.

You would expect for two supposedly unique cars there would have an ad for each car and more detailed images including both engines.
And more detailed history for each car. The interior of one shows a MPH/KMH speedo. - Does the 89,000k equal miles or kilometres?


According to the blurb these cars are setup for racing and shows. - no AC etc etc.

I still go back to my original statement - I.M.H.O. a 190e 2.6 is a better daily driver city car
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by Jelfes » Fri 02 Jul, 2010 7:50 am

Boys,

Great job and I thank you all for all the info. I just had a full 190E history lesson in 30 minutes.

The thing I can't understand between the 2 models is that 2.3-16V has 178,000km and the 2.5-16V only has 89,000km yet he is asking the same price for both. Is there something here that I am missing? I would have thought that 2.5-16V would have been more expensive.

Now that we've worked out that these 2 cars are not Evo models. Are the prices advertised for 20K good prices for the condition they are are in or can you pick them up cheaper?

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by 70499 » Fri 02 Jul, 2010 8:53 am

Jelfes wrote:can you pick them up cheaper?
Move to NZ. You can buy them for $5000
Brad.

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by AMG » Fri 02 Jul, 2010 8:43 pm

Neither car has the AMG power pack and neither car is an EVO.

the first is a 2.5-16 (and may not even be that, given the limited pics which allow identification and the Lorinser LO rims)

the second is a 2.3-16 and I am not sure but I think it may have been a car I looked at some time ago which was not looked after as well as it should have been. It does have the original sportline / 16v 15 hole wheels and looks more original, but you just can't tell. PPI required.

Les, the combination speedo reads in MILES on the odo and tripmeter.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by 70499 » Mon 05 Jul, 2010 9:40 pm

Here is a EVO 2 for sale Jelfes, if you have some spare $$$$$.$$

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/New-Mercedes-Ben ... 255b614fbf


Image
Brad.

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Re: 190e 2.5 16V or 2.3 16V

Post by hents99 » Fri 09 Jul, 2010 8:41 am

Who wants to make EVO I from his 16V contact me. We sell very high quality EVO I body kits.

Older 2.3-16V came with forged pistons. 2.3-16V are most wanted MB engine for tuning in Scandinavia.

2.3 and 2.5 blocks are also different(2.5 has oil channels between cylinders? ).
560SEC, C55, W201 (2.3-16T + 2.5-16)

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