All politicians should be shot

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All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Sat 18 May, 2019 3:03 pm

Give me ONE good reason this should not take place.

I cannot wait for the day that the Australian general population wakes up and sees just how dumb they really are as a collective. hint: it won't be an arsetralian who reveals the stark naked truth to their compatriots either...

manipulated by mass and social media, with a collective attention span shorter than a goldfish.

We should be called retardistan, not refer to americans as such.

Arse end of the world.... well, I have this feeling that it was the only time any politician in arsetralia actually spoke the truth.
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by CraigB » Sat 18 May, 2019 10:11 pm

I don't know about shooting but after this political campaign, more so than others, I would like to see them behave differently.

This election presented some clear differences and that's a choice in a democracy, but it is the way it is presented - I really resent how both sides in my opinion treat us like idiots as to how their policy will do one thing and the other sides will be complete disaster. You have to search for balanced sources, like a politics lecturer getting interviews on ABC etc etc to try and get the real story. All other media sources seem to treat whatever any politician says as fact. All the promises on both sides of what they will do but whatever needs to be passed in senate - but it is stated as fact, no that they it is their intention and will be presented for what will quite possibly be a negotiated final outcome.

But then for the public, I'm really disappointed in the views you hear and I think that is a big part of why the political messages are like they are. Almost every comment I have heard is about 'me'. Rarely do people talk about what policies are good for the community and future generations (political ground rules of not doing things that disadvantage future generations that i think past politicians from both sides took seriously). I am a self funded retiree and did my research on what the labor policies would mean for me and while there is no doubt I would make a loss, it wouldn't be the end of the world for me and I don't think that living where the divide gets greater and greater is good.... or I would move to somewhere like South Africa where the 'have nots' car jack etc and the haves live in fortresses and never go out, just living in fear - thats what i have heard first hand from people on car forums who live there.

this is the tailpipe section of course and i absolutely respect what i would think is a majority that disagree with me - but that's just how i see things and where i could agree with the message in what AMG is saying
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by KimB » Sun 19 May, 2019 9:47 am

Well I don't know about being shot, but I can assure you that Tony Abbott must feel like he's been hit by a silver bullet today.

He just lost his seat of Warringah on Sydney's northern beaches after a massive swing to Independent candidate Zali Stegall.

This is an absolute historic occasion for two reasons. One is that it's the first time a non Liberal or previous conservative Independent has won the seat. Secondly, and most importantly, is that it's the first time the Liberals or their predecessors have lost the seat since the Division was proclaimed in 1922.

This is a good example of when an elected member fails to listen to his/her constituents. Stegall's campaign's central plank was taking action on climate change.
This is a big issue in Warringah, particularly with young voters. Now whether you believe in climate change or not is up to you.

However, it was an issue that could not be ignored in this electorate. Unfortunately, Abbott, kept his head in the sand and ignored it. He had already described climate change as "crap" in an earlier statement.

He was elected to Warringah in 1994. Now, whether it was good old arrogance after being a member for 25 years, or plain stupidity, Abbott has paid the price.

Politicians must come out of their ivory towers and get among the people and really listen to their concerns, their fears and their dreams.

Any politician who fails to do this, does so at their peril. It's no good just to be seen doing the street walks, drinking a beer or chatting to the average Joe in the street at election times. These actions show how the politicians treat us as fools and whose credibility is exposed as paper thin.

Any politician who cries being time poor and can't take time out to talk and feel which way the wind is blowing, needs a reality check.
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by CraigB » Sun 19 May, 2019 12:42 pm

Here we go again in the tailpipe section and I know AMG well enough to know he doesn't mean we should grab the nearest firearm and go shooting people, but looking at this afresh this morning "Give me one good reason" and i think shooting politicians is a really bad idea and not the way to go about a problem. As stated I agree with other comments, particularly about bias and manipulation in media and some pretty blatant examples I have seen in our 'one paper voice state' but other events in the world of late had already brought me to the conclusion that we should stop dividing the world in christian or muslim or hatred between races etc and instead divide the world into those that think shooting people and blowing people up is ok and those that don't. I've got a hell of a lot more in common with good muslim people i know than extremists that shoot up mosques.

I didn't take AMG literally of course but prompted by another comment/report, I realise the title went straight over my head. I have used that phrase before "such and such should be shot of doing that", as a figure of speech (probably picked up from common usage from my parents era etc. - I'm 55) without any intention or desire to see them actually shot. But there are a lot of 'crazy's' out there.

Also if we shot all the politicians I believe that would lead to anarchy.... like to avoid that too..... but love to see them change their behaviour and maybe a bit less 'hate speech' out of them and setting a good example. Love it when you see people like Hewson talking so genuinely respectfully about Hawke this week as politicians and yet at the same time reading disrespectful hatred from random facebook posts from people who have probably never met the guy. I have been told by someone 'behind the scenes' in Canberra that most of them in 'the hallway' are genuinely respectful and friendly and even more so across parties than they are to specific individuals in their own party in some cases. They accept they are playing a game or 'theatre' to be able to be elected and influence policy in line with their ideals, that is usually not a million miles from each other (particularly once through the senate), but it is important to have that balance i think. Just a shame I think we couldn't be a bit more 'adult' about it all across the board from the politicians, media right down to individuals.
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by KimB » Sun 19 May, 2019 1:25 pm

Yes Craig, I'm sure AMG was figuratively speaking. And so was my "silver bullet".

Our politicians, love them or hate them, are a constant source of wonder, figuratively speaking of course. :crybaby:

Now I'm off to have a quiet drink with my old friends Horace Smith & Dan Wesson! :cheers:
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by 420 SE » Sun 19 May, 2019 1:39 pm

I weep for my nation and am thankful that I am not resident there at this time.
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Pete49 » Sun 19 May, 2019 2:31 pm

Only problem I see with shooting them all as said by AMG is that we will still end up with politicians :evilgrin: I still maintain that we should be voting 1st past the post. Choice of compulsory or voluntary you can choose but the biggest rort in my view is this preferential voting. Maybe get rid of that and groups like getup or unions et al and we may see a difference.
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Christo C » Sun 19 May, 2019 3:02 pm

Some would say shooting politicians is a waste of good bullets.
The biggest joke was Palmer - $80M bought him nothing!
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Lance » Sun 19 May, 2019 9:27 pm

It doesn't matter whether he meant it literally, he said it and it was a stupid thing to say.
The standard of politics here is no worse that other countries, apart from a few fringe examples the standard is tolerable.
And if AMG thinks Australians are arseholes then I suggest he find a country with people who are closer to his ideal.
But I doubt someone that arrogant would find such a place.

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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 20 May, 2019 11:38 am

The problem with politics I think is this:

-It is a really lousy job; you make huge working hours and in the eyes of the people you still are a *insert profanity*
-You don't do it for the money, most of these guys could make double in the corporate industry
-The real talented people, such as Bob Hawke, are already working in the corporate industry, where life is less "on display"
-Because of the media, you are under constant scrutiny, and trolling, death threats etc. are unfortunately not out of the ordinary
-You are very likely to become estranged of your family; you will spend more time in a car or a plane than with your family...

I was asked to run for councillor in the local shire (by the mayor). I can't because I am only a permanent resident.
But I would not know how to combine a job with that function, raising a young child and generate a decent income.
And that's only local council. Think of all the travelling you would have to do in state or federal politics.

So I do not envy politicians at all.

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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Mon 20 May, 2019 1:17 pm

I used to work in govt departmen(s) and for former state premier(s) in ministerial svcs.

So I have a pretty good grasp of political reality and what goes on.
Seen both sides of the fence, and believe me, if you actually saw what goes on, on a daily basis, your opinion would change.

There is no such thing as a good politician. Why don't you all treat yourselves to a visit to the lower house of your state parliament or even next time you're in canberra.
Have a good listen to the conversations that occur on the sitting members who aren't on the live mic.
Then you only have about 0.01% understanding of what these 'representatives' are actually doing with taxpayer $.

The only arrogance comes from people who do not fully comprehend what the discourse is about, or the "blind follower" who has earned their stripes through the political brainwashing process.

Suggest you take a back seat and grab some :happy1:
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Mon 20 May, 2019 1:23 pm

KimB wrote:
Sun 19 May, 2019 9:47 am
Well I don't know about being shot, but I can assure you that Tony Abbott must feel like he's been hit by a silver bullet today.
Was it the silver bullet or the wooden stake through the heart?
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Mon 20 May, 2019 1:30 pm

Christo C wrote:
Sun 19 May, 2019 3:02 pm
Some would say shooting politicians is a waste of good bullets.
The biggest joke was Palmer - $80M bought him nothing!
Or did that 80M buy him influence...

If you look at the alarming AEC stats, there is a disproportinately large number of palmer party preference votes used to stabilize political allies.

Palmer might come across seemingly uneducated, but I can assure you it is a very savvy move and 80M 'campaign' (political investment) has garnered him a political subterranian swell of willing negotiators.

Money still does influence elected representatives, and if there is something to be considered in his modus operandi, it is his resilience.

Not this time federally, but the influence at state level has been demonstrated, and this is concerning.
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 20 May, 2019 1:32 pm

AMG wrote:
Mon 20 May, 2019 1:17 pm
I used to work in govt departmen(s) and for former state premier(s) in ministerial svcs.

So I have a pretty good grasp of political reality and what goes on.
Seen both sides of the fence, and believe me, if you actually saw what goes on, on a daily basis, your opinion would change.

There is no such thing as a good politician. Why don't you all treat yourselves to a visit to the lower house of your state parliament or even next time you're in canberra.
Have a good listen to the conversations that occur on the sitting members who aren't on the live mic.
Then you only have about 0.01% understanding of what these 'representatives' are actually doing with taxpayer $.

The only arrogance comes from people who do not fully comprehend what the discourse is about, or the "blind follower" who has earned their stripes through the political brainwashing process.

Suggest you take a back seat and grab some :happy1:
OK, point taken. And maybe I am very naive about politicians and politics.

Please enlighten us!

Take a guy like Tony Abbot. Why drives this guy?
Is he just hungry for power and ego stroking?
Is he a bible basher who thinks everyone else goes straight to hell?
Or has he got his pockets lined by big coal and wants to make us believe we should keep running the same direction we did for the last 30 years?

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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Mon 20 May, 2019 1:40 pm

Pete49 wrote:
Sun 19 May, 2019 2:31 pm
Only problem I see with shooting them all as said by AMG is that we will still end up with politicians :evilgrin: I still maintain that we should be voting 1st past the post. Choice of compulsory or voluntary you can choose but the biggest rort in my view is this preferential voting. Maybe get rid of that and groups like getup or unions et al and we may see a difference.
I think we'd all 'prefer' a 1 vote 1 value system. especially after the senate ballot paper numbering system.

When you have to start indicating preferences beyond "3" you are simply confusing the principles of democracy and the legitimacy of voting.
The AEC should have enough independence to actually defer majority government instruction on how voting should be undertaken, and it should go to clear referendum with no campaigning, discussion or polling on the subject allowed.

The future of the 'sacred ballot' is under an extreme amount of pressure and all political parties want their slice - because it determines how much funding their party receives. It is a very slippery slope when an incumbent tries to influence the AEC.

Any qlder will remember the word Gerrymander, and the manipulation of electoral boundaries.
It allowed one premier to repeatedly govern for 32 years without scrutiny.
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Mon 20 May, 2019 2:39 pm

Bartman4800 wrote:
Mon 20 May, 2019 1:32 pm
AMG wrote:
Mon 20 May, 2019 1:17 pm
I used to work in govt departmen(s) and for former state premier(s) in ministerial svcs.

So I have a pretty good grasp of political reality and what goes on.
Seen both sides of the fence, and believe me, if you actually saw what goes on, on a daily basis, your opinion would change.

There is no such thing as a good politician. Why don't you all treat yourselves to a visit to the lower house of your state parliament or even next time you're in canberra.
Have a good listen to the conversations that occur on the sitting members who aren't on the live mic.
Then you only have about 0.01% understanding of what these 'representatives' are actually doing with taxpayer $.

The only arrogance comes from people who do not fully comprehend what the discourse is about, or the "blind follower" who has earned their stripes through the political brainwashing process.

Suggest you take a back seat and grab some :happy1:
OK, point taken. And maybe I am very naive about politicians and politics.

Please enlighten us!

Take a guy like Tony Abbot. Why drives this guy?
Is he just hungry for power and ego stroking?
Is he a bible basher who thinks everyone else goes straight to hell?
Or has he got his pockets lined by big coal and wants to make us believe we should keep running the same direction we did for the last 30 years?

Bart
There is a little box which ministers take to cabinet sessions, called CIC's. (cabinet in confidence). To breach those confidentialities is a serious offence.

Now, there have been "leaks" in the past, for which MP's have paid dearly. There have also been "leaks" which have been used to gain favourable public opinion, or to gauge the potential reaction of the public to a contraversial subject.

On Abbott - I never worked for his government.
So I am not 100% qualified to proclaim to know how he thinks personally.

I can however offer this observation.
One rises to his or her level of general incompetence, through garnering favour with other political influencers (aka factions).
when a faction has someone to do their bidding, they have an incredible degree of influence on decisions being made by their "representative"

Now, we could go back to a simpler time, when the influencers were less organized and more dispersed, more disagreeable with each other.
This is where political faction wars commenced and ultimately an elected representative had to have some amount of intestinal fortitude to put the dogs back in their crate.
factions became more savvy and dirty. no quarter was given, and ultimately political blackmail or the threat of having one's political future removed was often made... and successfully executed.

If you look historically at the last 4 federal elections, it is clearly apparent how factions in each party have determined the most malleable candidates for the 'top job'
These Prime ministers do not have the level of authority to which the public entrusts. They are doing the bidding of the factions they agreed to support. The factions provided the momentum to get their 'mate' on that seat in the house, and on that seat in government, on that seat in the cabinet.
At the highest levels in all major political parties in this country, the factions (public and private interests, industry representatives, unions, lobbyists, non-profit orgs etc.) provide donations. those donations are declared (most of the time...) and the amount of $ you donate buys you a portion of ear time with the elected reps AND the party administration.
Popular lobbyists and aligned public representatives then make public statements of support for "representatives" and their "policy".
The 'message' gets out - mass media, social media, letterboxes, public appearances, official speeches to the 'indoctrinated' etc.
the voting message is cemented in the minds of the ordinary citizen through the web of influence. No topic is left behind. All avenues of political gain are worked and thrashed as hard as they can be to gain political advantage.

In the end, the representative doesn't really have a clue about exactly every faction they are supporting. IN some cases (abbott) factions with opposing views are tearing at his conscience. This is a dangerous place to be in both morally and politically.
A decision is made to create a public platform that 'distances' his political compass from his moral compass.
We all know what followed.
Rants, raves, diatribe and the creation of an unsustainable political position which on one hand, suited the party factions and on the other, drew massive public scrutiny and political derailment.

Is his head up his arse? of course.
By the time you end up in the top job, you blindly believe without scrutiny everything you are being fed behind closed doors. These are the inner circle, implicitly trusted, above reproach.

If you recall the story of wormtongue, then you can see how abbott fell from grace. It's not difficult to see, when all the political allies start to distance themselves. The worm's message spreads rapidly.

first abbott, then malcolm in the middle and it will be a couple of years perhaps after sco-mo's shine wears off and he's seen as nothing more than an opportunist.

Right, to middle to just left of the right of centre. abbot-turnbull-morrisson.

When your party backbone doesn't vocally emphasize your unanimous support from the rank and file, your tenure is at best slippery.

The same can be said for shorten, who has been completely ineffectual as an opposition leader. Moreso when you consider that those who shadow the government portfolios have no idea on how to effectively communicate and debate public issues.

with a 2-party majority, the government has effectively two fronts on which they can successfully argue a single opposition.

This is why a coalition government is never a good idea. In actual fact, it should not be legal. If a party cannot govern in a majority as one party, then the 'balance of power' should absolutely fall to the conscience of an individual - but as we already know and witness, politicians have no conscience when it comes to moral compass versus political ambition.

It's a sad fact that we are all subject to these whims, proxies, financial influencers and hard-line activists.

the machine of politics is an avenue for people to vent their frustrations, and for representatives to gain favour by saying "I fixed that for you" when the reality is the machine took care of it through it's factional support.

The absolute truth is that politics in this country is now defined by the "me" generation. If it doesn't suit an individuals selfish narcissistic ideology, then whoever best markets themselves to these people will be the political victor.

Abbott was a spent force politically when howard departed. He was provided the job because he was a fresher face than Costello. a Party decision. later reinforced by the public, because the alternative was... a political assassin herself.

It's not a game for the faint-hearted, but don't for one second have sympathy for any of them. They want the job, the money, the power, the influence, the shoulder-rubbing and the headline.
Yes, they may go in with a degree of naivity, but they shed that at the very first party caucus meeting... when they get told HOW they will vote and if they don't, they're out.

regurgitator wrote a song about politics..... or political analogy. It's called "I sucked a lot of cock to get where I am"

This federal election was some of the lowest and most alarming form of political campaigning I have witnessed in my life. Every single candidate from the major parties (or political alliances - aka palmer) hasn't felt the need for excluding the low hanging fruit from any political advantage.

not a single constructive debate on POLICY.

We can now all stare at the ground shake our heads at the outcome for whatever reason. It matters not. We have now got to put up with the hand we're dealt for however long he lasts in the top job... assuming there isn't another factional challenge coming. We do know that there will be one coming in the opposition though! Shortarse has relized his ambition was for nought and the message that was dispensed from the party HQ prior to the beginning of the campaign has been heeded. We'll get another useless stooge representing a major party.

The voting apathy in australia is quite possibly the biggest contributor to the political landscape outcomes. as a society, people are disinterested in policy, debate or longterm future and security of this country, unless they are directly impacted by a decision.
"The wasted vote" is the vote the major parties want. If they can secure it, the advantage is huge.
tap into the mindset of the disaffected, and get them to a polling booth, convince them to vote as per the prescribed leaflet and celebrate the success of the marketing campaign when it comes to fruition.

How do you stop the rot?

remove the influencers. i.e. the ones who want a kickback. the mainstream media with their corporate backed targeted message, the social media trolls.
Encourage public debate and mandate the politicians engage on a far more regular basis with their constituents. public fora. cop the tough questions.

Politics at a local government level is far more engaging than it is at state or federal. but when a country has 3 tiers of elected officials, the ability to adequately understand how and where issues are falling through the cracks is an escalating problem.

as the internet promotes social networking, those who seek to isolate themselves from this overarching big brother will fare no better than those who embrace it. The blind, leading the ignorant as I call it.

It's simply up to the individual to call out unacceptable political manouvering. the organized trolls will repel it and promote a single ideology.

you buy into it

you become it.

To say it's orwellian is not the whole truth, but there are elements that identify.

How far it goes will ultimately leave you at the mercy of manipulation by the faceless.

Those who make a decision to accept a life of politics are more often than not seduced by ideology and philosophy. "make a difference" - those who adapt when in a position of power and influence are the successful.

3 terms is all it takes. then you retire. get your pension. whether you get spat on in the street or draw a crowd will be entirely a result of how you conduct yourself who you share parliament with and how hard you work for your constituents. i.e. "the balance sheet" did your electorate benefit more than you?

Kim made the point about hard-working representatives.

Of the hundreds I've met in state parliament, I can literally only think of less than a handful (counted) who exited without harm. two of those lasted one term in office. only one lasted longer.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

Lance
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Lance » Mon 20 May, 2019 8:00 pm

If you think it is so stuffed then get off your arse and do something about it rather than whingeing and moaning. Maybe it is so faeces to you because no-one agrees with your views. Maybe you are the problem.
And don't say to others that they should sit down and shut up because they know nothing, you are the expert and the only one who is qualified to comment.
You are a first class wanker and the sort of dickhead who gets upset when it doesn't go your way.
Anyway, I am done with this forum for good.

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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by CraigB » Mon 20 May, 2019 9:04 pm

Really? Copied from above "General bile, Politics and BS discussion goes in here, plus any other shite the admins are sick of putting up with. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. If you are easily offended stay out." I don't like direct personal attacks on forums and despite the strong and differing opinions here (that i had to go back over and read again in context) and i am only seeing that from one person. So you come to this area of the forum, with that above explanation and forewarning and your finished with this 'car forum' for good. I'll now expect some sort of abuse now for making that observation I guess.
Craig Baulderstone
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL Ruby
300TE Otto
350SL Gloria
350SLC Lurch
450SEL Boris
500SEC's...including Syd
560SEL's Foufou and Zac

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AMG
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Mon 20 May, 2019 9:16 pm

That's a fairly extreme and baseless response Lance.

Take a good look at what's been written, re-read it and I'd wager you'll soon realize your idiom is not what has been written in anyones previous posts, especially mine. At no point have I taken personal liberty with you, as you have with me, but so be it -

To misquote is an error on your part, not mine. If you wish to do so, it doesn't make any difference to me.

This is the tailpipe, and if you're so thin skinned to clearly misinterpret what's been written, then take offense through offering drivel through misquoting, whether deliberate or not, then maybe, just maybe you're barking up the wrong tree by offering to partake in the discourse here.

insofar as something not going my way? what the hell are you on about exactly? Do you have a clear understanding of the tailpipe?

I'm all-inclusive on this. and certainly not singling any individual or party out.
This is the kind of childish retort I'd expect from a politician when they get upset about something not going their way god knows I've seen it enough.

And If you're really "done here", then at least do the right thing and send the admin team a confirmation email. We'll put your a/c on ice until you've cooled off and had a think about it.

The stab you made at Giles and JG in the other thread was something I thought to be out of character and in jest, but it's clear from your contribution in this thread that you have some need to persist with the aggro - which isn't going to bother me, but sure as faeces might irritate others.

Maybe I'll suggest you have a nice hot cup of stfu and just chill out for a bit- let the rest of us enjoy the discourse and our entitlement to disagree, without turning it into your playground dummy spit.

:cheers:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 21 May, 2019 11:30 am

I agree with AMG Lance,

I asked for insight, and he has given it to me.
I have started to read some inside books about parliament, and already suspected a lot of the trickery that goes on in the background.

I might not agree with everything AMG says, but it was enlightening.

He might even have thought about joining them, but it's hard to stay true to yourself when in that position.
Have a look at Peter Garret, who joined being idealistic and having ideas where society should go.
He left very disillusioned, because of the egomaniacs and the politicking...


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by AMG » Tue 21 May, 2019 2:13 pm

I believe one should not remain in a working environment that compromises one's moral compass on a daily basis.
Even moreso when one raises legitimate issues for discussion which are summarily dismissed by those who work for you and with you without investigation or research.
It matters not who or where you work. It is far healthier to have the robust discussion, and accept the outcomes than it is to ignore issues.

There are businesses out there who are far worse than politicians. I've worked for a couple, not for long though.
It doesn't take much to see through the thin veneer.
It's also quite easy to start out with a well-meaning and mutually beneficial or symbiotic working relationship and for one side of that to become selfish, or for one side to take advantage of the other.
In an instance such as this it can be hard to disassociate or divorce oneself. Eventually a situation such as this becomes toxic.


Let's look at PG -
Why did someone with such a conflicting set of beliefs join the ALP? I think he was deceived by the snake oil.
It doesn't take much to see that he was tossed in at the deep end and sank like a stone.
His desire to try and implement the 'activist' policies he supported (let's be frank, it's what made him popular, not just Midnight oil) could only go one way.
To see him exit broken and disillusioned is not entirely unbelievable. More of a foregone conclusion really.

Incompetence of a department which causes a minister to resign? yes, it happens often!
Were the incompetent staff sacked? no, rarely actually.

The minister is responsible for their department. Some portfolios are trickier than others. Social security, health, police, industrial relations.... These are what you would call "stubborn" or unwilling to change. departments that have a culture which is highly resistant to a more agile public service. Ever wondered why nothing happens in Government? It's not always the minister..... it's the inability for the minister to get the department to do anything. This can be a political problem (employee resistance) or a factional issue (union / lobby group / industry backer) which exerts it's influence on certain govt business transactions or it's employees. e.g. police union, public service union, NFF, Nurses union etc. Sometimes, the department is the root cause - i.e. dept. staffers with an agenda. Great example is NSW Health. or QLD police. Active agitators within dept staff who attempt to create unrest by alerting or attempting to mobilize workers to strike on issues which have little effect on workers rights or conditions.

This is a permanent source of irritation for any portfolio, and is often subversively supported by dept heads, so they are not seen to be instigators, but will not quell an issue until they are instructed.

There's an interaction between DLO's (departmental liason officer) and the departments DG(director general) in government departments. the DLO's are responsible for the communication of the ministerial messages, instructions and direct communications. DLO's are not responsible for ministerial communication to the public, that's the MO and occasionally the CLO (caucus liason officer) in conjunction with premiers media officers.
whether the DG / DDG act appropriately to a ministerial is occasionally questionable. They are SES level employees and thus subject to performance review / dismissal on short notice, unlike departmental staffers. Most DLO communication is simply funneled through the DG's office to dept legal, or to relevant department heads when responses to questions from the public arrive in the ministers office.In most states there is a normal mandated 14 day response timeframe for public written enquiry to a minister, it can be up to a month in some states - it really depends on the rules set forth in parliament.

responses to external enquiries are usually formulated / written by department staff, reviewed by dept legal, forwarded therough DG's office to the DLO in ministers office and then reviewed by ministerial legal and bundled up into correspondence folio to be presented to and signed by minister (rubber stamped or personal - depending on ministers preference).

So you can see why it takes a month to get a response out of a minister. Longer if you send a letter to your local MP, who forwards that to the relevant minister, for response.

Now, how many of those letters do you think Peter Garrett received? I'm betting it was a fair few.
I'm also betting a lot of them were time wasters, and some of them were serious problems.

It would be fair to say that as citizens we hold two tiers of accountability from our majority governments. On the whole, we expect less cooperation from an LNP majority and less accountability than we expect from a Labor majority. Whether this is due to the "dirty laundry" nature of Labor's internal politics is unclear, but I'd wager it has something to do with it. supporting factions are reasonably publicly active when Labor is in majority government, and less so with the Libs. Some of it has to do with how the parties were founded, but beyond that, it is and always has been a publicly associated political tag - that the Blue corner supports big business and the red corner supports blue collar workers, the Nationals always were the "farmer's party" and the Democrats were supposedly there to "keep the bastards honest"

It's a long time since we have had political balance with marginal seats holding the parliament in full attendance.

I am sure the federal roster will be quite relaxed for the next 4 years, with the 66+ seats held, so there will be plenty of parliamentary sessions missed by elected members on the majority govt side.

Bart, if you really want to get into the detail stuff, you can always read the hansard - https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Hansard

or maybe the current issues briefs, which cover all manner of interesting and rather serious topics.. maybe start with some relatively indigestible history:
https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... 99/99cib01

index: https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament ... ns_Archive

not what I'd call light reading...
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Omar » Thu 11 Jul, 2019 12:01 am

Hey, this is great! I thought I’d just find talk about exhaust systems here.

You’ve hit a lot of nails on the head in this thread AMG. Thanks for sharing your insight.

I did an introductory course on politics, back in the late ‘70s, and, although I don’t recall much of what happened during that period, I vividly recall the first lecture I attended.

The lecturer, Professor Dean Jaensch, began by interpreting the word ‘politics’ to mean ‘argument’. Then he said that he didn’t know why we chose to attend his course but if it was because we intended to enter politics, with the view to changing the world, equipped with all the answers to all the problems, we would be sorely disappointed. He said that in order to be endorsed, and to remain so, members had to yield to the factions, pressure groups and to tow the party line.

The link below is to a video of a lecture Professor Jaensch gave about five years ago during which he touches briefly on some of what AMG has said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI8QyCu_Brc

Sadly, the situation today is even worse:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 513jl.html

Omar
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Omar » Fri 09 Aug, 2019 2:21 pm

Interesting article at the following link, in light of what Professor Jaensch said in the video at the first link I provided, in my previous post, with regard to high level public servants being reluctant to provide proper advice, for fear of losing their jobs and, instead, being inclined to say what politicians want to hear:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-09/ ... s/11398456

It’s all the more significant, I think, in light of the revelation in the article by Peter Harcher, at the second link that I provided in my previous post, which seems to confirm - as Joe/AMG has pointed out in one of his posts - that our current prime minister is a cunning opportunist.

No further confirmation is really necessary, given how ScoMo handled his campaign, in the lead up to the last election, especially with regard to his announced intentions in relation to moving the Australian Embassy in Israel. I was surprised that what Peter Hartcher stated in his article didn’t get much traction with regard to the outcome of the election ... I thought people would have been repelled by that kind of behaviour.

I dare say that the combination of ignorance, arrogance and opportunism is not a good mix of characteristics for someone who is leading a country to have and, moreover, if what Hartcher wrote in his article is true, it follows that the pressure groups have got ScoMo by the proverbialls, good and proper, so you’re certainly not weeping alone for this nation Ross/420 SE.

Those who doubt/ed the veracity of the claims, in Hartcher’s article, should also refer to another respected journalist’s article at the following link:

https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/new ... 7240006796

And if that’s not enough, please check out the article at the following link:

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 4zz18.html

When I read the article by David Crowe, it wasn’t Ray Hadley’s stumble that I found pertinent but, rather, the fact that Scott Morrison was already canvassing support before we, the general public, were led to believe that Malcolm Turnbull had given him the go-ahead.

We may only know the truth of the matter after the LNP is voted out of government.

Omar
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Re: All politicians should be shot

Post by Omar » Fri 16 Aug, 2019 9:35 pm

David Crowe, the chief political correspondent for The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age, has written a book about the events surrounding the demise of Malcolm Turnbull and the ascent of Scott Morrison to the office of Prime Minister.

His book is entitled, ‘Venom: Vendettas, Betrayals and the Price of Power’ and will be out on August 19.

https://www.npc.org.au/member_events/bo ... vid-crowe/

Below is a link to an abstract of David’s book:

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/fede ... 52gqr.html

Spoiler alert … ScoMo’s hands weren’t as clean as he would have liked us to believe.

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