OZBENZ

Hi,

This is my first post and my first endeavour to an older car (very much a noob). I have always been in love with old Mercedes Benz and always wanted to own one. I don't necessarily want to restore one I would like to tinker and play where I can.

I was thinking of buying one which I have seen (on the web) recently that I like, the car is in Sydney and I am in Melbourne. I have done heaps of research on rust and where to look and I feel confident here for when i look at it.

I had a number of question which I was wondering from everyone's experience on whether or not i should pull the trigger based upon my current situation.

I live in a coastal town, the car has been previously in a coastal town, my greatest fear is rust, so am I kidding myself here? Will the car be worse off in this environment? The car will be garaged and not left outside. However, I will be doing trips around the area.

I would like the car to be my day to day as well, I won't be travelling far as I work from home. However, every now and then the one hour drive to Melbourne will be required. That saying if i have problems with the car (mechanically), am I going to have problems getting it fixed? I'm not necessarily bothered with OEM parts I just want to feel comfortable that if something does go wrong a. It can be fixed b. And not cost an absolute fortune.

Last question, I have two small kids in baby seats, I I have tried searching to see but could not find anything definitive. I assume since the car was made in the 70's that this was not a requirement. Is it hard and/or legal to add anchor's?

Thank you for your comments and advice, it is much appreciative.

As long as it is a good car then I don't think you need to have concerns, but the key is determining if it is one of those cars that has been properly looked after or one with shiny paint! If it is rust free now then you shouldn't have problems, but best thing to do is get a 'cavity wax' product like valvoline tectyl and squirt it into cavities, chassis, remove door trims and into doors etc. Most rust though is due to people allowing mud to build up, which then holds moisture to the steel and away it goes. Squirting behind guard panels, checking in doors etc from time to time is a good thing.

Child seats won't be a problem. You need a good mechanic, and there will be recommendations on here, and parts won't be a problem. My only negative comment is that it won't be very economical by modern buzzbox standards, but if you take all the costs into account of owning cars, doesn't need to be a worry.

Hope that helps, but the key is finding a well looked after example.

I'm a huge fan of w114 - 115 . So I think it is a good idea , I have done the thirsty old 250 petrols and am now firmly in the 'diesel is best' camp . I've had 200D really slow, 240D not so bad (as a manual) and 300D great as manual or auto.

You have already spotted the main draw back with these cars , rust , rust , rust.

The forum has a wealth of help for the DIY repairer and many parts are easily obtained thru the internet.

Nice simple cars , easy to drive , passenger safety capsule , 4 wheel discs etc .

If you find one with a faulty heater fan , that is a BIG time consuming repair.
Also the twin carb engines can often be a challenge to get running good.

Of course you should.

Lance wrote:Of course you should.

... says the not-biased-at-all "Kim of W114's" :whistle:

If it's your first old Merc, then take into account the following three important things (in that order):
1. condition of the body
2. condition of the body
3. condition of the body

Everything else can be fixed easily, but there you burn money. Have it thoroughly inspected by a specialist. Rather invest some dollars in that, than buying a rubbish car.

If you find the right one, you won't get the smile out of your face.
Thomas

As previously mentioned, rust.

Firstly check the firewall, if there is any run away. Then check the sills, a good idea is try and lift the car with its supplied Jack. Any crunching and your in for a decent costing repair. You'll also need to check front and rear floors as the screen rubber harden with age causing leaks. Also check the boot and around the rear screen and the lower section of the doors and guards.

I'm in favour of the EFI 6 cylinder, the M110. It will be badged a 280E for the sedan. If your not in a hurry the diesels are pretty bulletproof.

Good luck with the hunt.

Giles

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the comments and tips, very much appreciated.

I have been looking at the 280CE as I love the shape.

I think to be 100% sure I might get someone with more experience then myself to look at the car. Any ideas how much that would cost? Anyone know of someone in Sydney they have used before?

Thanks again for all your help.

Cheers

If you are after a coupe, be prepared to pay twice than that of a sedan.

As a guide,

under $5- will need a lot of work and I mean lots.

$5-$10K will get you something pretty reasonable, but it may still require some dollars spent on it.

$10-$15K should get you a quality car

Above this it will be so good you won't want to take it out every day as you'll be paranoid about where to park it.

The value of these cars is now being realised, especially with the 280CE. One of my old coupes was exported to the UK and has been recently advertised for £12K-.

Giles

To add to Giles: If you're not experienced and cannot do a lot on your own: Get the most expensive GOOD car and you run cheaper when you consider the first 5 years.

Just my opinion. In 2004 I bought my 500SL, which was amongst the most expensive then. It paid off.
Thomas

Thanks again for the guidance.

Do you guys have any idea on how much it would cost for an expert to look at it?

I would estimate between $200-250 for a widely recognized expert independent MB specialist.

Where is the car located in Sydney (more specifically area, not just city) ?

based on this I may know members who may be able to help you.

a proper PPI is always recommended, so you are on the right track.

Do not be dissuaded by losing 200 bucks if it's a dud. you just saved yourself thousands in headaches.

If you have more concerns PM me or email joeb@ozbenz.net. I'll endeavour to assist in any way I can.

I believe the car is in Waterloo. I am up there next month so I will take a look and if I'm keen I will definitely call on someone, so any name and numbers would be fantastic.

Thanks again

Peter '2' (Swatosch) at autohaus one would be the closest by my reckoning.

There are others, but may constitute a slightly longer travelling time.

You'd be better served by examining the log books first and see who serviced the car during it's life, then contacting the workshop, ask them some questions. A good workshop will take the time to discuss the vehicle, and may also do your PPI.

Bottom line though, I wouldn't buy a 114/5 without getting one done... So many places to look for evil rust, let alone the worn-out tired suspension.

You could sink $3K easily in rubber bits and pieces just to make the car drive properly. But at least it will if you do.

There is no such thing as a cheap Mercedes-Benz. Don't fool yourself into thinking there is. Caveat Emptor.

T-Modell wrote:...In 2004 I bought my 500SL, which was amongst the most expensive then. It paid off.
Thomas

When I bought Stella, I had looked high and low, near and far and SO many 107's. 90% of them were absolute sh..

And even after purchasing and being as thorough as I could be, There were still a few of those problems that induced that uncomfortable, bowel-evacuating fear of "oh no"

But I think back to how thorough and fortunate I was. I still ended up with a decent solid 560SL.

In the search I was totally gobsmacked by how unethical car dealers really are, and how they punt faeces cars on for twice the price of a heart transplant.

One Great example that still sticks in my mind, was a 1979 107024 in DB877 with a Cream interior.. A great, highly desireable colour combination - quite a rare colour down here...

It sat in a yard near Gosford NSW and had a sticker price of $34K. Driving past, it looked clean and original. So, you go have a closer look. :pray: :love4: :naughty:

And that is when you find out the carpets are soaking wet underneath :Doh: , the floor is rotting from all the water, there is a pervasive damp smell , even though the car is parked roof-down in full sun.... :think: the boot carpet missing :snooty: , filthy engine bay, etc etc etc. It wasn't even worth lifting the scuttle panel to check the soft top.
and then you see the ODO reading 98000km...... on a car that had driven at least 3 times that. :liar:

There was no need to look closely at the sills, they had been freshly painted with that bitumenous deadener - brushed on walk away, no RUN away, before the dealer strolls out.

If you don't find what you're looking for, do not worry - there will be plenty more available. Just follow Thomas' advice. The most expensive top-condition 'unaffordable' vehicle now, will save you tens of thousands in ongoing maintenance and repairs in the future. And despite what so many will say, if you really do want to make a silk purse from a sows ear, it will cost you 3 times what that mint 'unaffordable' car sells for...

Yes, we've all been there... You'll find a lot of similar stories on here ;)

Keep a sharp eye. Don't buckle on emotion. use your head. If it's not an economical and sensible purchase, it is not worth buying. Simple as that.

AMG wrote:....Driving past, it looked clean and original. So, you go have a closer look. :pray: :love4: :naughty:
...

... a friend of mine had the following definition:
There's the "5-metre-condition" ... most cars look pretty decent from 5 metres
Then the "2-metre-condition" ... and the "really-close-look-condition"

Just true!
Thomas

T-Modell wrote:Then the "2-metre-condition"

That's true, I have always said that mine looks great from 2 metres away.

Thanks so much for the words of wisdom guys, without the advice and guidance.

I'm up in Sydney next month so if everything looks great and everything checks out, I will post some pics.

Thanks for the help

The thing that drove me out of my W115 diesel was the fact that it had no air conditioning and our first child had arrived and we live in Qld. Child seat anchorage points were already in my car when I got it from a customer who got it from the forum sponsor in 1997. Apart from no ac, in so many ways it was the best car I have ever owned! I would buy another one - if I could find one with no rust, and with no rust, and with no rust...

Hi,

I am still on the hunt for my w114.

I was wondering out of the 250/280c and the 250/280ce range should I focus on buying?

From my research the C range was a carburetor engine and the CE was fuel injected. Before I go on scouting trips around Australia am I better focusing on CE rather than a C?

I just don't want to turn around in a year and go "oh dear" or even 10 years and find having a CE is worth 10k more.

Thanks again,.

Sedans look best.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/riversid ... 1123398020
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/howrah/c ... 1120654482
280 goes very well with a manual.

I agree with Lance.

The sedan's have a more balanced design than the coupe. For some reason the proportions seem a bit out.
Also, the 280 M110 engine is a lot more powerful than the 250 or 280 single cams.

With carbies saves you the time to get the D-jet problems ironed out...

dallasf wrote:Hi,
...
I just don't want to turn around in a year and go "oh dear" or even 10 years and find having a CE is worth 10k more.

Thanks again,.

Well,
as mentioned above the motor is absolutely secondary. If you want a W114 to make a profit, then forget it. You will spend more in repairs and upkeep than the value will ever increase.
Thomas

Bartman4800 wrote:With carbies saves you the time to get the D-jet problems ironed out...

Why does everyone bag D-jet, I think it is great.

dallasf wrote:Hi,

I am still on the hunt for my w114.

I was wondering out of the 250/280c and the 250/280ce range should I focus on buying?

From my research the C range was a carburetor engine and the CE was fuel injected. Before I go on scouting trips around Australia am I better focusing on CE rather than a C?

I just don't want to turn around in a year and go "oh dear" or even 10 years and find having a CE is worth 10k more.

Thanks again,.

While others have mentioned Coupe and Sedan, your research results:

From my research the C range was a carburetor engine and the CE was fuel injected.

do not mention sedans or Coupes. Just to clarify, the C and CE were both Coupes. Sedans were the 280 and 280E models. And yes, the E is for "einspritzen" (injection).

Hope this helps,
Tony

I like both the coupe and the sedan was just just trying to grab some knowledge on the better option for the coupe.

I know making money from a car is pointless was just more so wondering what was more desirable.

If you're not bothered whether it's a coupe or a sedan, I would definitely urge you to go for the sedan. They are less than half the price and far more beautiful than the coupes to look at (have to agree with Lance there). And if you have a family, four doors are so much better than two. I also agree with him on the D-jet injected 280E. The fuel injection has been the least problematic component of my 280E, makes for a lot more power (185 hp) and so much better than smelly, temperamental carbs. The 280E has superbly smooth motor and the fuel consumption is not as bad as reputed to be. One other bit of advice is go for the series 1 sedan (up to the end of 72). The cars after that date were given a 1970s makeover and in my mind it was a big step backwards. Try to get one with factory air. The 114/115 was the first Benz to have truly integrated aircon, and also the first by the way to have a centre console!

dallasf wrote:I like both the coupe and the sedan was just just trying to grab some knowledge on the better option for the coupe.

I know making money from a car is pointless was just more so wondering what was more desirable.

Having owned both W114 sedans and coupes, I would recommend the coupe and this is why.

They allow easier access into the car with the longer door for the taller or longer legged person that can see over their bias for the sedan. These two doors also minimise the chances of having the wrong type of person entering your car, thus anyone that does get the chance to ride in your coupe is in fact now part of a select club.

The real reason why sedan owners love their version so much is that they've never been in a coupe nor wanted to cough up enough coin to pay for one. :naughty:

Getting back to more serious advice, firstly are you a DIY guy? If you're not you'll need a good local, low cost, knowledgable guy who knows these cars well. I've seen plenty of people throw lots of money at these cars for all the wrong reasons.

R.O.I. is possible, less likely with the sedans and also less likely with either version if you're paying a mechanic to do mundane jobs.

On the question of EFI or carbie, EFI wins. The carbie version has the Solex 4A1, some people won't touch or rebuild. A Holley 390 is a good replacement but not cheap.The EFI is good for its day but that was forty plus years ago. The Bosch D-jet is a simple system but if one thing goes wrong it can be temperamental if some has fiddled with it. I'm currently in the process of a 5 year rebuild of a custom coupe and will be using a modern EFI setup. It is referred to the Frank Sinatra 'I did it my way' version.

In summary, a good 280CE is my recommendation for desirability and R.O.I. and be pepared to pay good money. If you do you'll reap the rewards.

Regards,

Giles

I think your comment earlier was 'I love the shape of the 280CE' - so i think that is your answer. Even at 10 to 15k - take a loan for the extra if you like and add in the interest, lose $5k or make $5k regarding your comment about losing or making money- it all seems small change to me regarding the number of new cars you see on the roads and the depreciation and servicing costs, not to mention costs of out of warranty repairs that render cars throw aways. I'm not saying there are not useful points here, but i think you know what you want but justifying to yourself the higher cost. I think you can easily do that because on the whole, coupe's on the evidence of all models i can think of will always have greater demand. And of course all those costs as stated will disappear if you buy a car that needs money poured into it. I must say though that the heckles go up on my back a bit every time someone says categorically ' you will always, and in every circumstance spend a fortune if you buy an older car'. I have not experienced that, I still see a couple of cars that i have sold regularly and the new owners have not spent more than they would if they had a new toyota corolla but don't have crazy depreciation. And yet i have at times looked at cars people have bought after the fact and thought 'god no!' Good cars are out there, you just need to find one. And if you see a car that seems maybe $5k too much or even more, its still worth a look. I agree that most cars you can spend $5k without blinking, say brakes need doing, suspension etc, but if these pricey cars have that all done then what you are probably getting is a better car overall thrown in for free.

And clearly good working injection will be better than carbie. You don't want a car with dodgy injection or carby, but if a car is working like clockwork when you buy it, both are usually pretty reliable for a long time and likely to keep going if car in good condition. But those solex carbs on the 280 do have a reputation of almost always warping and giving trouble. Just don't buy a car that "just needs a tune" - if that was true surely the seller would spend a few hundred and get that done.

I love being told how it is! Thanks "again" for the advice, truly am. I'm no where near close to know what I'm doing I just want one and wanna get the right one.

Hi,

This is a really noob question. Since the car is leaded are you ok to run unleaded or do you need a gas conversion?

Thanks

Unleaded is fine. Alloy head has hardened inserts as standard. This applies to all W114/W115s.

I know that the 280 needs to use 98 octane, assume the others are the same.

Great thanks