W115 Ute Project starts ...

Post by **CraigB** » Sat 15 Apr, 2017 7:25 pm

Without going back through the pages, it has been done before hasn't it? Was there something about engine or booster on an angle? And you could always go the same road as my Alfa and have a remote booster if that is a tricky bit. I have to admire your patience and determination.

Post by **T-Modell** » Sat 15 Apr, 2017 7:37 pm

Craig,

of course it has been done before, but it's a more tricky thing than I thought ... definitely not plug and play. What really pi ss es me off is those "specialists" with the big mouth, who then turn out to not have a clue and blame me for it. I do hope, that Stefan takes on that project and gets it done. What he's done with the 450SLC 6.9 (incl. hp suspension) is just amazing.

He's got enough work, but when I showed him my "automatic automatic" and the 3D-printed cluster he really was impressed ... he's also a bit of a perfectionist and likes the details

Regards
Thomas

P. S.: Today I continue to redesign the "automatic automatic" ... from mechanical switches to opto-couplers ... and from the "old" W108-indicator-stick to a W211-cruise-control-stick (this doesn't click in)

Post by **T-Modell** » Sun 23 Apr, 2017 12:36 am

Hi,
a short update; I terminated the collaboration with this company last week. My hope at the moment - are you sitting firmly? - is my Mercedes Stealership here. As mentioned often before, there's one guy (end-fifties) who could do it. Of course more expensive, but only 5 minutes away. At the moment my stealership restores a W100 600 ... I'm waiting for a reply. Stefan (6.9 SLC) would have been interested but cannot commit at the moment due to personal reasons.

So the company so far will make the donor car "rollable" again and then I have to organise a transport to whoever continues. Somehow I'm not too lucky with the project :whistle:

Anyway, life's hard, but there's no life without a hard one ...
Thomas

P. S.: On the way home, the station wagon was full with parts

Post by **cuisses** » Sun 23 Apr, 2017 4:16 pm

T-Modell wrote: My hope at the moment - are you sitting firmly? - is my Mercedes Stealership here.

Thomas, you didn't give us sufficient warning. I wasn't "sitting firmly" at all, and I have fainted, swallowed my tongue, and sustained a serious injury caused by your careless and thoughtless post. You can expect to be contacted by my crack team of lawyers. We are asking for an out-of-court settlement of 10 million Euro, of which my lawyers get 98%.

It is starting to look like shipping this project to MB Spares is the best and cheapest option ....

Post by **T-Modell** » Sun 23 Apr, 2017 5:10 pm

... you're right, I should contact John, sell my house, move to Australia and have the cars with me in a container ...

Thomas

Post by **AMG** » Sun 23 Apr, 2017 7:52 pm

or itemize every part and sell it on ebay.de as Genuine :occasion5:

time for a deep thought session (aka Piss-up with car buddies) :occasion5:

Post by **T-Modell** » Sun 23 Apr, 2017 10:08 pm

You're not in Germany soon, Joe?

... free stay at the five-star hotel in my house against some motor-consulting?

Thomas

Post by **John Green** » Mon 24 Apr, 2017 10:40 pm

T-Modell wrote:You're not in Germany soon, Joe? ... free stay at the five-star hotel in my house against some motor-consulting?
Thomas

And what a fine house it is at that! Ship the car and a large deposit, we will sort it from there.

Post by **T-Modell** » Wed 03 May, 2017 9:33 pm

Hi guys,

one step ahead ... my "stealership", currently busy with dismantling a W100, 600

refused at first to start this job. They were just not sure, if they can do it. Well I had no alternative, so with a bit of "I'm a good customer with four cars"-pressure

... I got them to agree to give it a try. Monday, both cars will be shipped here and I will take it from there.

Cross your fingers and toes for me, that I might get some progress on getting that bloudy motor in there!

Regards
Thomas

P. S.: One big advantage: Instead of being 100kms away, it's a five-minute-drive ... that saves time and money too.

Post by **TheMadRacoon** » Thu 04 May, 2017 7:03 pm

Good to hear your local stealership possesses such skills. I'm not confident that too many here would. Even my SLC was too old for an MB Bodyshop to (bother) looking at.

Hope to hear some positive news.

[Edit: hahaha.... I'd written stealership then changed it to stealership.... but the edit wouldn't take effect. Has thus been programmed into OzBenz ?]

[Edit 2... Yes, must be, because it automatically changed stealership to stealership in my first edit!!! Wonder if it will change it in edit 2 too?]

Post by **T-Modell** » Thu 04 May, 2017 7:10 pm

Emad,

that's the political correctness algorithms here ... if you had written "Deelership" or "fugging" or "bloudy" (see above), it works ... let's try Deal er ship ...

Thomas

Post by **TheMadRacoon** » Thu 04 May, 2017 7:34 pm

Fantastic. Big Brother at work. Or should that be Big John ?!

Post by **T-Modell** » Mon 08 May, 2017 11:50 pm

So, short update,
cars have been delivered today ... Mercedes here had some "ohs" and "aaahs" regarding the complexity, but they will try and they had some first ideas. Now I have to give them a couple of days to think about it ... at least something! :occasion5:

Regards
Thomas

Post by **eddie** » Wed 17 May, 2017 8:22 am

Awesome project Thomas, I suspect the news from Mercedes will be painful to the back pocket, but the end result will be worth it - the only 5.0L Mercedes ute in Germany, Stuttgart couldn't be more proud!!!

Post by **AMG** » Wed 17 May, 2017 6:17 pm

Hope the progress is more consistent for you now Thomas. I'm happy to send you beers in lieu of not being there in person to shout you a round.

I think you could probably do with a fridge full. :occasion5: because the only way to cope with the huge fees will be to remain in a state of permanent inebriation

:occasion5:

Post by **T-Modell** » Wed 17 May, 2017 6:24 pm

Thanks guys,
of course the hourly rate is more expensive, but what counts in the end is the work result. It's like a cleaning helper; one for 10 $ is not necessarily cheaper than one for 20$ ... Performance is Work by Time

On top of that, MB here is really fair; I do have a lot of positive outcomes over the last 10 years. I'm even considering NOT shipping the cars to Poland; when it is here close-by, I have much more control over things and it doesn't take me 3 days to go there and back.

Today, 14:00hrs is the first meeting ... we'll see how we go. Stefan 6.9 was very helpful so far on the phone; I WANT to get this project done ... too much "heart blood" put into it (as we say in German)!

Regards
Thomas

Post by **Mercmad** » Fri 19 May, 2017 9:38 pm

The sedan looks just like mine ! ...

IMG_0293.JPG

i bet yours has a floor in it though.

Post by **John Green** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:17 pm

TheMadRacoon wrote:Fantastic. Big Brother at work. Or should that be Big John ?!

Maybe.....

Post by **eddie** » Mon 22 May, 2017 4:18 pm

Hey Thomas, any updates?? the suspense is killing me!!

Post by **T-Modell** » Mon 22 May, 2017 5:02 pm

Hi guys,
it's a bit frustrating. I'm just not sure anymore, if it is possible at all. My last hope is Stefan (450SLC 6.9) who is so nice to come next Monday to see if we can solve that transplant. We found out last week, that the "super specialists before" swapped the motor supports from left to right ... the reason, why the oil pan clashed with the axle

... I'm so pissed about them, those "experts".

I fully trust MB here and Stefan; so next Monday I know more. Otherwise, this project is stopped and I can cry about a lot of money lost. However for experimental reasons, I printed two plates for positioning the motor ... we'll see, if it works:

motorsupport.png

Regards
Thomas

Post by **AMG** » Tue 23 May, 2017 9:46 pm

Thomas,

Stefan is the go-to guy for sure. While you're at it, maybe a stealth installation of Autronic SM4 instead of D-Jet? more power, cleaner emissions etc. Stefan has experience with this ECU on his cars also.

It's looking very promising and I agree it's far better to be close to your project - there is nothing worse than being too far away from it, when you want to check on something small or take a measurement etc.

Please show us some pictures when you can - I know it's probably not much right now, but I'm also secretly keen to see how nice the inside of MB workshop is over there as opposed to here ;)

cheers!
Joe

Post by **Mercmad** » Wed 24 May, 2017 10:19 am

you need an SL oil pan to clear the front axle. It's about 50mm shorter in the lower part so it clears OK. i have one here for a 450SL/SLC if you cant find one ... but i think the wreckers in Belgium would be your best bet, Marc VanDeVelde keeps a good stock of really old merc parts on hand. http://www.autopartsvandevelde.be/nl/cl ... rs-lokeren

PS, you will also need the oil filter housing from a 107 V8 which points the filter upwards to clear the axle and get access to the filter.

Post by **Mercmad** » Wed 24 May, 2017 10:23 am

Mercmad wrote:The sedan looks just like mine ! ...
IMG_0293.JPG
i bet yours has a floor in it though.

BTW, this was a W115 220 automatic, but it now has a 250 M114 with fourspeed manual. The raised rear is because the shock shafts are rusty and when I was driving it they stuck and it stayed up in the air. The W115 diff gives v8 like performance.... :think: :think: :snooty:

Post by **T-Modell** » Wed 24 May, 2017 5:01 pm

Mercmad wrote:you need an SL oil pan to clear the front axle. It's about 50mm shorter in the lower part so it clears OK. i have one here for a 450SL/SLC if you cant find one ... but i think the wreckers in Belgium would be your best bet, Marc VanDeVelde keeps a good stock of really old merc parts on hand. http://www.autopartsvandevelde.be/nl/cl ... rs-lokeren

PS, you will also need the oil filter housing from a 107 V8 which points the filter upwards to clear the axle and get access to the filter.

Ron,
you've written that already two years ago and thanks to your valuable tips I purchased a much more expensive R107 pre-facelift 1983 500SL (just refer back to page 1 here) ... so the oil pan is not the problem. I will report on Monday. Core problems are to clear the steering in height and left/right, manifolds and connection to the rear axle.

Best regards and thanks
Thomas

P. S.: My W115 donor car is (was) also a 220 Automatic

Post by **AMG** » Thu 25 May, 2017 4:13 pm

You may find that LHD w116 manifolds will fit better, and the down section of the header can be cut and welded, may require a wedge section of the pipe removed and flange rotated slightly to clear the steering box.

Similar to fitting in a w123.

Post by **T-Modell** » Fri 02 Jun, 2017 11:37 pm

Thanks guys,
but at the moment no manifold fits. Monday Stefan was here and we had a "creative" hour together with my Mercedes Mechanic. We try to sort out this and meanwhile I have to find out, where I lost that bucket of money I thought I had ...

I think at Mercedes here I already earned the title "most crazy customer" ... they all have this strange look on their faces ... a mixture of "shaking their head with eyebrows raised" and "pity" ...

Regards
Thomas

Post by **maddin** » Thu 08 Jun, 2017 8:49 pm

T-Modell wrote:I think at Mercedes here I already earned the title "most crazy customer" ... they all have this strange look on their faces ... a mixture of "shaking their head with eyebrows raised" and "pity" ...

No no....it's an expression of utmost admiration !

Post by **T-Modell** » Tue 20 Jun, 2017 9:57 pm

Hi guys,

a short update ... after some time. Putting a V8 in a W115 is NOT an easy thing - as I was told here. With an enormous help from Mercmad here and Stefan 6.9 we created ideas of what to do. Tomorrow I have my "work experience day" at the lokal Mercedes dealer, so I'm "allowed" to work a full day with their experienced guy in their workshop ... I think that's pretty special these days. So hopefully tomorrow night we have an idea for how to place that motor, so it fits and doesn't collide with other stuff ... I'll report.

Rough calculation is now around three times what I had hoped for

... I had a few sleepless nights thinking about to stop and - as we say in German - "not throw good money after bad money" ... the problem is, that I have put too much heart into it already ...

Anyway, best regards
Thomas

Post by **Bartman4800** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 11:31 am

Maybe it's cheaper to buy a return ticket for Ron?

Post by **T-Modell** » Thu 22 Jun, 2017 3:23 pm

Bartman4800 wrote:Maybe it's cheaper to buy a return ticket for Ron?

Guess what I thought about already?

... at least a little progress yesterday ... the rear axle is in ... also not plug and play as "I was told", but we got some ideas and made it. Today part II ...

Regards
Thomas

Post by **AMG** » Thu 22 Jun, 2017 7:41 pm

I think the phraseology of "Plug 'n Play" is somewhat generic in real-world swaps.

Even with mercedes->mercedes swaps, there are dozens of little things that get in your way. Remind me to tell you how straightforward a 716.6xx into a c124 is one day, and that was an 'easy' swap by my book.

I suppose you have the sawzall out for the trans tunnel and firewall mods?

Post by **Giles** » Thu 22 Jun, 2017 10:30 pm

Giles wrote:Short cut everything Thomas, just put a flat tray on the SL.

Das-Bogan style. :dance:

Giles

I still stand by this post

Post by **T-Modell** » Thu 22 Jun, 2017 11:18 pm

Giles wrote:
Giles wrote:Short cut everything Thomas, just put a flat tray on the SL.

Das-Bogan style. :dance:

Giles
I still stand by this post

I'll bring some salt for your wounds next year to WA

... made a huge step today, but aren't there yet. ... and the car is empty, yes ...

Regards
Thomas

Post by **Giles** » Thu 22 Jun, 2017 11:46 pm

T-Modell wrote:
Giles wrote:
Giles wrote:Short cut everything Thomas, just put a flat tray on the SL.

Das-Bogan style. :dance:

Giles
I still stand by this post
I'll bring some salt for your wounds next year to WA ... made a huge step today, but aren't there yet. ... and the car is empty, yes ...

Regards
Thomas

Thomas,

Bring the salt & the tequila, I'll bring the lemons and limes.

Looking forward to it.

Giles

Post by **T-Modell** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 4:21 pm

Hi guys,

I do have the feeling, that we have done a huge step forward yesterday. Still not there, but I think we have a technical solution on how to fit that motor in. Then there's still a long way to go until we can test-drive the whole motor/axle/drive-train setup ...

Regards
Thomas

Post by **AMG** » Sun 25 Jun, 2017 2:18 pm

tick... tock...

Like sands through the hourglass......

so too are the projects in our lives.....

:occasion5:

Post by **T-Modell** » Sun 25 Jun, 2017 5:56 pm

AMG wrote:tick... tock...

Like sands through the hourglass...... so too are the projects in our lives..... :occasion5:

So you're having your philosophical day today

... guess how often I had that during the last years ...

Regards
Thomas

Post by **AMG** » Sun 25 Jun, 2017 6:34 pm

It was quite windy and cold here today, and my project stalled.... so yes, one of those less-than-productive 'Days of our Lives'

:boohoo:

Post by **Honey500** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 11:44 pm

Hi Thomas,

Just catching up on the epic that is the ute project.

I very much like the sound of 'solutions' even if some ways off a test run.

Best of luck look forward to the next installment or even chapter?

Cheers

Stuart

Post by **T-Modell** » Wed 05 Jul, 2017 1:58 am

Thank you Stuart,

no progress for the next two weeks ... I have to earn some money for this project

... but the next steps are clear and I will report from then. My objective is to have it running by xmas, so we can then dismantle it completely and start with the bodywork ... we'll see!

I'm determined to keep my "crazy guy" title at the local Mercedes workshop :occasion5:
Thomas

Post by **Honey500** » Wed 05 Jul, 2017 10:42 pm

Thomas from what I can see there is little chance of loosing that title :dance:

Post by **AMG** » Thu 06 Jul, 2017 3:09 pm

Has anyone actually contemplated a complete firewall / tranmission tunnel / front floorpan section from a w123 to be swapped - wholesale? i.e. donor w123.

I'm curious if it could be performed and whether or not the room exists between the A pillars.

I think you sent your R107 off maybe a bit too early. Possibly could have used the trans tunnel / firewall / floorpan section from that ?
That is something which only just came to mind. I don't think I mentioned this when the original idea was being discussed...

But I'm pretty sure you'll remain the "Crazy Guy" - and once you pull it off, Every stealership in Germany will hear about it.....

They probably have already emailed their other workshops and said "haha look what this gullibale fool brought in for us... $$$$$$$ KA-CHING $$$$$$$

"

Those buggers will be laughing all the way to Deutche bank. :occasion5:

You might need an extra week of work too Thomas, You know how these project budgets have a way of "blowing out"

Post by **T-Modell** » Thu 06 Jul, 2017 5:59 pm

Hi AMG,
I don't think a whole front part swap from the R107 would have gotten the approval of our TUEV here.

Regarding $$$: You're wrong, but everyone here thinks that I'm an idiot. One just cannot believe, that there is something like an honest, fair-charging MB stealership. But I have one, proven over the last 10 years.

The "super" company in Frankfurt "only" charged me 50 Euros net an hour, but their efficiency (not even starting to talk about their competency) was bad. I spent a whole day there and saw it myself what it means to them "working an hour".

Believe it or not: I talked to my MB stealership here, asked them for a fair price per hour, telling them about "being a good customer" and having no responsibility whatsoever, as I'm just merely booking hours. Juergen is extremely experienced, 57 years old, knows everything in and out, not a show-off and with him "working one hour" means one hour. The hourly rate of course is higher than the one mentioned above, BUT it's about 25% below their normal rate. This is what I call fair.

So I am aware, that I will leave a good amount of Euros there, but the only other option would have been to abort this project. Even Stefan-6.9 was completely surprised about them, when he visited me and the workshop to create ideas for the conversion.

Maybe my workshop (btw an official MB dealer with 5 or 6 subsidiaries) is somewhat special, but I trust them fully.

With my best regards
Thomas

P. S.: It's like comparing cleaning staff: Someone for 10 Euros/h is not necessarily cheaper than someone for 15 Euros/h ...

Post by **AMG** » Thu 06 Jul, 2017 6:38 pm

T-Modell wrote:Hi AMG,
I don't think a whole front part swap from the R107 would have gotten the approval of our TUEV here.

Probably not - but restitching the transmission tunnel may have been an option just from a clearance perspective - that's all I was implying - as the 107's got the clearance for the 722.3 transmission and the M117 engine.

Regarding $$$: You're wrong, but everyone here thinks that I'm an idiot. One just cannot believe, that there is something like an honest, fair-charging MB stealership. But I have one, proven over the last 10 years

I don't think anyone - at least no-one here thinks you're an idiot - quite the opposite actually. Maybe a sucker for punishment perhaps

- but any project is like that. What's far more difficult for us downunder to comprehend is that you have:

1. A stealership actually agreeing to do the work.

If it's over 5 years old here they just pretend you don't exist - especially when you walk up to the parts / service counter.
2. Being charged a fair and reasonable rate (without being "milked") :think:

Believe it or not: I talked to my MB stealership here, asked them for a fair price per hour, telling them about "being a good customer" and having no responsibility whatsoever, as I'm just merely booking hours. Juergen is extremely experienced, 57 years old, knows everything in and out, not a show-off and with him "working one hour" means one hour. The hourly rate of course is higher than the one mentioned above, BUT it's about 25% below their normal rate. This is what I call fair.

Agreed, if you negotiated what you feel is fair compensation, then yes the price, is the price. Australia isn't quite like that - there are always "variables" - and some (not all) workshops abuse this item. Some "massage" it, and some are reasonable. It's like buying a lotto ticket - you never really know whether they are going to be a-holes and take you for a ride, or if they will act fairly.

So the cynical view prevails - and the dealerships are just over the top when it comes to quality and quantity of work versus the actual price. So that's probably why people are thinking " Geez, he must be barking mad - getting it done at a dealer!"

Maybe my workshop (btw an official MB dealer with 5 or 6 subsidiaries) is somewhat special, but I trust them fully.

Well, you wouldn't let them near your project if you did not trust them, but from what I gather, it seems you have a good relationship with the dealer, and they are supporting your enthusiasm, by wanting to be involved in the project. That's certainly a far cry from the attitude I have received from any dealer in this country.
I think that when it's complete, they may want it as a workshop "service" car??? Maybe there is a hidden motivation

Post by **T-Modell** » Thu 06 Jul, 2017 7:25 pm

Thanks Joe,

for your words ... after I read your statement, I just want to clarify something, that can easily misinterpreted (I didn't word it properly):

T-Modell wrote:...
Regarding $$$: You're wrong, but everyone here thinks that I'm an idiot. ...

What I meant with "here" is NOT the forum here, but I meant the people HERE in Germany, who I tell, that I'm doing the project with an MB dea-lership.

Btw., you're right ... this stealership is doing a lot in the classic car area (they're restoring a W100 at the moment, actually Juergen is doing the work), so if this project is ever running, there will be a remark, that it was possible with the help of them AND of course a lot of help I got from here (which now means Ozbenz

)

Regards
Thomas

Post by **John Green** » Thu 06 Jul, 2017 9:05 pm

T-Modell wrote: I'm determined to keep my "crazy guy" title at the local Mercedes workshop :occasion5:
Thomas

Don't get too excited, you don't even qualify for that title at our place...

Post by **70499** » Fri 07 Jul, 2017 10:44 pm

T-Modell wrote:
I'm determined to keep my "crazy guy" title at the local Mercedes workshop :occasion5:
Thomas

Just download from the interwebs a "not insane certificate". Fill in your full name and details and present it to the stealership".
If that fails, welcome to the asylum :dance:

Post by **T-Modell** » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 1:01 am

Hi guys,

some progress at last; after we spent a full day last Monday with ZERO progress (nothing worked), we think that we finally found a solution, how to fit that motor in. Yesterday I printed another piece in 3D for testing and now I will have the motor holder produced in steel according to my 3D-drawing ... hopefully it'll work then.

The Plan is to have those holders in 2-3 weeks, then get the motor in. After that, the car goes to the exhaust specialist and the drive-shaft-extending-and-balancing-specialist ... the exhaust will be custom-made incl. manifolds. After that we'll put the donor car together in a way that it runs for testing purposes; this will also include a motor revision, as we found out that the "slide bar" (?? Gleitschiene, made out of plastic) in the M117 is defective ... we found parts in the oil pan.

Anyway, enough to do until the end of the year. Then the body work should be starting. Sometimes I'm amazed about myself, how much patience I gained while getting older

Best regards
Thomas

2017-06-22 - 08 - Bardel Einbau M117 - 25mm nach vorne_1280x960.JPG

Post by **John Green** » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 12:33 pm

T-Modell wrote:Hi guys,
this will also include a motor revision, as we found out that the "slide bar" (?? Gleitschiene, made out of plastic) in the M117 is defective ... we found parts in the oil pan.

The CHAIN GUIDES are the weak link in these engines, luck you didn't try and start it as it might have been a disaster. Was it the l/h inner guide broken at the top or bottom?

Post by **T-Modell** » Sat 22 Jul, 2017 2:37 pm

Hi John,
thanks for the word

... I drove the car two years ago ... as we haven't dismantled the motor yet, I cannot say what's broken. But as the motor's out anyway, all the standard parts will be changed, especially the ones that you cannot access when the motor is in the car.

Regards
Thomas