MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

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We seem to have a lot of posts around this particular model, I wonder why?!!???
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Des
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MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Des » Sat 08 Mar, 2008 2:50 pm

MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc.

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by AMG » Sat 08 Mar, 2008 5:55 pm

mate of mine is a complete nerd. his brother an electrical engineer.

they megasquirted a fiat x19 and wait for it.... DOUBLED the factory power output, without any other changes.

they also ran a 'normal' state of tune, which didn't advance the ignition too much (guess they wanted to keep the engine alive)

after the fiat, they fuel injected a LADA 4x4, and went rallying in it. Did quite well too, except for other mechanical issues, like floorpan creasing despite the full rollcage, when jumping dips and flying over cattle grids etc.

So for all the d-jet fans out there, a wasted spark megasquirt setup will work fine, and the manifold requires very little in the way of mods.

unfortunately, any KE-jet fans will be disappointed, as the later manifold is not very friendly to EFI mods.

I was quoted 2200 for an altered manifold, machined up to accept efi and fuel rails, fly-by-wire MAP etc. dual 85mm giacottolo throttle bodies...

and I had to supply 2 manifolds to make it happen.

For anyone interested in the idea, I suggest maybe - think about screwing on a paxton blower instead. by the time you stuff around on the dyno sorting out your megasquirt, the blower will have paid for itself.. twice over.

(btw Des), MoTeC and autronic also do mercedes kits, and if anyone knows an easier way to get an inlet manifold for m117 happening... it's about 5.5K for the ECU brain + setup (basic) - WAY more than the megasquirt, but a truckload less buggering around to sort out the initial loop, as these have a closed loop learning function that takes about 45 mins to setup, and give satisfying drive-away results (provided you fork out for the right sensors, and dyno time.) a lot quicker, easier and less painful than the mega...

If someone has the money, I'll gladly help with the electronic stuff. Don't be fooled by someone telling you it can be done on the cheap. There are not many daily drivers out there that have been megasquirted by home-mechanics. Great toy for a weekend warrior, if you know a good tow-truck driver, and it's certainly a much cooler adult toy than LEGO Technik or Meccano ever was. it will take about 3 months of solid testing and tuning on a daily basis to get a megasquirt working as good as factory efi.

Thats a lot of fuel, time, money, and rides home on a flat-bed towtruck. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Wed 20 Aug, 2008 5:18 pm

Have to say it is VERY VERY easy to do, and u can cheat alot to make it cheaper and easier. My 1973 450SLC has been running on MS II, fuel only tho, for the last year with out any problem that i couldn't solve by just reattaching a wire that had come lose from the relay board(was lazy didn't solder/crimp the wires that are screwed onto the relay board). Specially now with the newest flash drives i have never had a problem with it. If u follow the way that Oughtsix did his conversion in the link above it will be perfect, the only change i did was getting the tips of the injectors machined down to the metal pip with a barb machined onto it so that i could reuse the current 450SLC fuel rails. Total cost would of been under $1000 even with me buying the MS II and relay board premade and tested. It does make a HUGE improvement to its power and mileage, i am getting about 20mpg with a very very heavy lead foot i might add :lol:

By the way, i am 22yrs old have very very limited skills in circuit building/wiring and my mechanical skills leave something to be desired. So if i can do it anyone can, I ll try and post some pics of the cars engine bay soon, tho it looks bad its still wired with all the random wires i had in my dads garage, finaly got around to ordering new injector electrical conectors so i ll rewire everything properly(including crimping the wires been screwed onto the Relay board) when i get them and the items to build a EDIS system.
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by AMG » Wed 20 Aug, 2008 7:06 pm

Bluefang wrote:Have to say it is VERY VERY easy to do, and u can cheat alot to make it cheaper and easier. My 1973 450SLC has been running on MS II, fuel only tho, for the last year with out any problem
Thats great to hear, and I never said it wasn't easy to install. Fuel only is a lot different to full ECU 3d map with multiple load points.

The EZL ignition in my 560sl for example, has 13 separateignition maps. So to achieve the same standard tuning, with wasted spark (direct fire) ignition and EFI, takes a LOT of fiddling and testing.

This is why autronic / motec / haltech etc all use a closed loop lambda system and a basemap from the existing engine data before the conversion. Makes it a little quicker to get very accurate fuel metering, and accurate spark timing.

Would love to see your megasquirt setup - and I am sure Cam will be VERY interested in what it can do for his race car. Post your pics up so we can see how you went about it all. :D :D
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Thu 21 Aug, 2008 10:13 pm

I ll get the photos over the weekend, (gives me time to clean up the engine bay abit).

MS II runs as either a closed loop or open loop system depending on how u set it up, but yeah if ur unlike me and read the instructions on how to tune the car u can get it almost perfect for hot driving in one day :D
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by CraigB » Fri 22 Aug, 2008 1:12 pm

I must say I find this very interesting and I have a lot of reading to do.

Just in rough terms, what sort of rear wheel HP are you getting on the dyno? I would be happy with 20mpg from my comparitively breathless 6, albeit with a lead foot!
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Sun 24 Aug, 2008 2:07 pm

havnt paid for a dyno run yet so have no idea about the Hp on the rear wheels, atm my V8 is getting 18-19mpg, but thats with me pushing it pretty hard in acceleration and driving at 130km/h in a 110zone :D, not many stop starts tho.
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Sun 24 Aug, 2008 2:10 pm

more photos
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Sun 24 Aug, 2008 2:17 pm

this is the last of them, i had photos of the actual install, but cant find any more of them :cry:
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Meshuganah » Thu 28 Aug, 2008 10:50 am

Hi, I am so sick of my K-jet system that I am about to set myself adrift on a project like this.
I am from the W201 section but I am sure an install like this will go down well.
I may go used l-jet (Skyline) but have been looking with great interest at the MegaSquirt.
The 201 has a cool inlet plennim, huge throttle body and heaps of space once all the K-jet stuff is removed.
I can keep the cold start stuff and the auxilliary air bypass gear.
Any advise ?

Cheers, Meshuganah

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by CraigB » Thu 28 Aug, 2008 1:53 pm

What engine do you have in your W201?
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Meshuganah » Thu 28 Aug, 2008 2:19 pm

Hi CraigB,
I have a 2.0l 8valve single cam k-jet on auto trans.
Doesn't look too hard but I don't know what the timing p/u is.
Thats at the bellhousing and I can't get to it easily.
Magnetic?
cheers

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Meshuganah » Thu 28 Aug, 2008 2:39 pm

Bluefang,
What did you use for a throttle position sensor?
Meshuganah

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Hendrik » Fri 29 Aug, 2008 9:05 am

Meshuganah wrote:Hi CraigB,
I have a 2.0l 8valve single cam k-jet on auto trans.
Doesn't look too hard but I don't know what the timing p/u is.
Thats at the bellhousing and I can't get to it easily.
Magnetic?
cheers
Is it K or KE?
From what I understand by a quick google is that the M102/3 KE motors use two sensors, one on the front and one on the back but neither are suitable to send signals to an MS conversion. There are conversions done on 103 motors but as has been said the manifold will need major work to accept electric injectors.
The front sensor works on 360 degree pick up and the rear one operates on 120 degree.

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Meshuganah » Fri 29 Aug, 2008 2:57 pm

Hi and thanks Hendrik,
The system I am going for will use the original ignition system.
The rear p/u seems to be the one used, the front one just goes to the diagnostic socket and is only used for setting up etc.
My ignition system is great and will be interfaced with the megasquirt from the coil primary/tacho feed.
I have the injectors and they will fit pretty well straight in with the K-jet boots. (ex Skyline)
I need to build up a fuel rail and can use the existing aux air bypass, pressure reg and cold start systems.
Need to find a throttle position sensor for my throttle body, not much room but I will make a plan.....

I'm doing a LOT of reading and so far I think it will come out well.

Cheers,

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Meshuganah » Fri 29 Aug, 2008 2:58 pm

I dont mean to pinch the post, so any info I can put up will be on the W201 section.
Cheers. :)

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Fri 29 Aug, 2008 7:17 pm

My TPS is just a basic micro linear potentiometer that i got a machine shop to drill into the throttle butterfly shaft, joined it with a grommit screw and then mounted it myself on the end of the throttle shaft using a small piece of sheet metal between the old mounting points from the old point TPS
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by supercharger » Mon 22 Sep, 2008 7:48 am

hi man , god job you did there on your SLC but how com you dont run ignition timing like distributorless like ford EDIS-8 its perfect together with MS and runs great thats where you can gain HP and eco more than tune just fuel curve .

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Mon 22 Sep, 2008 7:19 pm

I would love to run a EDIS-8 system but have not got around to getting a 36-1 trigger wheel installed into the car, pretty much the easiest place for me to install it seems to be on the front belt pully(Will be getting it redesigned soon to accommodate a SC belt and the 36-1 trigger wheel soon). But at the moment i need to get a RWC to change rego from Victorian to Queenland where i am atm. And to do that i need to get a rear oil seal replaced, doing tranny at the same time, which is $700. But i have some time so before i do that i have been researching different Automatics i can use to replace the 3speed slushy i have atm.
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by supercharger » Mon 22 Sep, 2008 8:42 pm

okay i see i hade to fabricate a total new but xact the same as stock pulley but the different in the front is a 8 ribbed 170mm diameter to drive SC witch use 65mm pulley. and if you do so you can fabricate a 36 weel to slide over the pulley from engine side where you mount it to the crank and atach it with 2 fixed bolts and even adjustebel to , but i use just 4 studs but in the same way

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Tue 23 Sep, 2008 6:32 pm

Hey man, yeah i will be doing it like that :) will be very good to finally have the engine advance totally controlled.
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by supercharger » Wed 24 Sep, 2008 5:42 am

sure that is absoult the most feeling you can se when you tune ignition advance up . here is a very good ignition curve that i use for several engines now first iron 450 CR 8.0 use at light load cruising mode if you use a load scale that starts from 0-100 atm say around -40- 45kpa is 40-42 degree , -60-80kpa i use 37-35 degree then last -80-100kpa zero vacuum i use 34-32 degree . if i use 8.8 CR i usually retard a few degrees at fullpower high and fullpower loads

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Wed 24 Sep, 2008 9:39 pm

Thanks for the tips, i ll be trying to organize the pulley this weekend if i still have no answers about a trans swap, the shops i have been talking too dont seem to be interested in swapping transmissions so i think i ll have to get a few dollars together and do it all myself. So i ll just have to change the trans over at a later date rather then rushing it now just cause i have to change my rear oil seal lol

About the advance setting, Megasquirt uses a 12x12 table MAP vrs RPM so yes i can set it like that, and i asked about the advance setting on the MS forums a while ago and still have the table that one of the moderators sent me and it is in the range of what u suggest so it will certainly be a good place to start :D
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by supercharger » Thu 25 Sep, 2008 7:54 pm

yeh and the thing about timing here is most engines are happie to run more than 40degrees but i have seen ignition advance up to 50 light load conditions , this is the problems where the stock distributor range not could be found from factory i mean the distributor mechanical range didnt tollerate such operating range to adjust to otherwhise they did a **compromise** to a so so ignition curve . and that when we comes to DIS fire thats where we can do some powergains and drivebillety ofcourse performance gains to .

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Fri 02 Jan, 2009 6:13 pm

I finaly completed my installation of Wasted spark coil packs directly controlled from my MSII to power my engine, the coils i ended up using were from a 2.4L Isuzu truck so they are pretty powerful. When compared to the stock single coil its crazy, the stock coil can barely jump a spark 5mm and when it does its a weak little thing that you can barely see in daylight, with the 4 new coils the spark is so strong it can now jump 20mm easily and is very very bright :twisted: :D :twisted:

I have not fully set my advance table seeing as i am still unsure of what my base timing is because my timing light broke :( But other then that the car is running alot better, much smoother at idle and seemingly more powerful at high rpm.

So if anyone in Queensland needs help with their MSII installs i can probably cope with most of it now lol. Took me 1 day to install it, 6 days to trouble shoot my weak VR signal, damn Toyota VR sensors :evil:
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by hents99 » Sat 03 Jan, 2009 3:50 am

Hi, anybody used mb stock vr sensor near TDC point? 3-pin connector is in data link connector section. I want to try it with 60-2 triggerwheel with VEMS.
I have already made the mb bolt pattern triggerwheel.
If anybody knows descriptions of these 3-pins please let me know. (wiring diagram or smth would be good too)

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Thu 08 Jan, 2009 9:24 am

The megasquirt install guide lists all the common pin setups for VR sensors, most common is signal, ground, and shielding wire. Some VRs have a powered input instead of shielding but the MSII stuff i think will give u a much better understanding of it.

Otherwise will be easier to ask in forums where the VR sensor is from, i dont think any 107 has such a sensor on them.
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by supercharger » Thu 08 Jan, 2009 1:19 pm

no 107 got a VR sensor stock and those VR sensors like 3 wires are not power at all , no such sensor has power , its a hall effekt sensor if so ore optik . those VR who got 3 wires are signal ground and shield . the other more common VR is useing 2 wires signal and ground .

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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by hents99 » Thu 08 Jan, 2009 7:38 pm

I wonder if this sensor can handle 60-2 triggerwheel. About 200mm diameter triggerwheel.
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by Bluefang » Fri 09 Jan, 2009 10:24 pm

It will handle it easily, VR sensors can output enough pulses to stay synced with a 60-2 tooth wheel spinning at over 18,000rpm. So having one going at 7000max is well within its range
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by hents99 » Sat 10 Jan, 2009 12:49 am

Not all VR sensors. That`s the point. My W201 1.8 crank VR sensor didn`t read 160mm diameter 60-2 triggerwheel.

I try to check on bmw 60-2 triggerwheel with oscilloscope.
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Re: MegaSquirt install in a Mercedes 450slc

Post by supercharger » Thu 26 Mar, 2009 12:13 pm

the best to do is to use a triggerwwel and the sensor that belongs to each other otherwise it can be a miss reading ore some other trigger issue as i know when i trie and test sensors and trigger weels is to get a good pattern from the weel to the sensor , and by that means if there is say a igniton module who whants falling edge ore maby rising edge then it could be a help to know if the sensor you are going to use wat cind of pattern does it use. and not just that is the trigger weel to how the pattern looks there if its a VR ore if there is a Hall ore if its just 4 studs ore maby BMW /Volvo so on 60-2 ,, 36-2 ,, Ford 36-1 ,, toyota uses 24-1 and so on nissan uses 360 teeth and i use 4 studs LOL

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