560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Model 107 Specific Mods -
We seem to have a lot of posts around this particular model, I wonder why?!!???
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aoslc76
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560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by aoslc76 » Thu 14 Oct, 2010 2:52 pm

Hi guys,

doing the cold air intake thing on my 1976 450slc K-Jet - have opportunity to get a 560 twin snorkel air box but its a bit of a drive from me.
Will it fit ?? from the pictures I could find on the net it looks the same but wondering if the size of the air sensor housing hole is the same.
Just trying to save myself the drive if someone out there knows....

Ari
1976 450 slc- 861 silver green metallic
1964 MGB
1964 VW 1300 beetle ( in storage)
1963 EJ special (keeping the beetle company)
1997 Magna - "the ute"
2000 Yamaha YZF R6- road reg track day weapon
2009 Nissan Murano- wife's car
In the family- father 1929A model Ford Phaeton, brother 1976 911 s

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Greg in Oz
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Greg in Oz » Fri 15 Oct, 2010 12:37 am

Unfortunately, a twin snorkel 560 (126) air box will not fit a 107 without modification. In fact, any air box (including a single snorkel) from a 126 will not fit a 107 without modification. The opening in the base of the air box will fit the air flow meter but the 107 version has the snorkel on the left side whereas the 126 version has it on the right (or both sides on the 560). The problem with the 107 is the location of the coolant expansion tank which is close to the right side of the air box.

With mods it can be done and I have done so on my 500SLC. I didn't use a 560 air box though as it has the larger snorkel on the right side and only a small one on the left side where space isn't a problem. I actually purchased a 380 air box ($5 on eBay with a new filter element included). I then cut the snorkel short to allow it to clear the coolant tank. On the left side I cut an opening to which I fitted the snorkel from my original 107 air box. Being a late SLC, mine had the aluminium air box with the black plastic snorkel similar to the 126 air box. This has given me a twin inlet air box and I still have my original (just missing its snorkel which can be refitted when originality is required). No, it's not a cold air intake. To run the snorkels to the front for cold air would be difficult on the 500SLC. On the right side the coolant tank, screen washer tank and ABS unit are all in the way. On the left side the air conditioner hoses and receiver drier are in the way. Obviously cold air would be preferred but I figure the dual inlets have to offer some improvement. When I get a chance I'll snap some photos.

On the subject of cold air intakes, the D-Jet version of the 107 lends itself to this very well, albeit still with a single snorkel. I have previously posted this mod to my 350SLC with photos on several MB forums. Unfotunately it just isn't so simple on the K-Jet versions. Only the 560SL had a single snorkel drawing cold air. They were able to do this on the 560SL as it had a cross-flow radiator and different air conditioning plumbing which left room for the cold air intake.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

aoslc76
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by aoslc76 » Fri 15 Oct, 2010 12:02 pm

Thanks Greg you answered the most important question and that is the hole in the air sensor housing is the same.
I have been researching this topic for some time now have read your post on what you did to your 350-good stuff but the quandry with my car is the d shaped filter intakes on the left- as you know and like your 500slc my car to is obstructed by the receiver drier and hoses at the front but the right side is unobstructed and the best avenue to draw in cold air- no ABS on my car!
I toyed with the idea of getting another steel box- didnt want to butcher my pristine original-from a 450 ( proved to be really hard to source) and fabricating a new snorkel on the right but after seeing the twin snorkel modification fitted to the 560sl on peachparts decided to follow this avenue and have since sourced one.
Have no problem to modify the right snorkel to address any issues with expansion tank clearance . Want to make this a true cold air by making two airboxes either side ( like you did on the one side of your 350-even downloaded your template- thanks mate!)
Couldn't find any info if someone had done this to a 450 k-jet hence the sensor hole size question.
Off I go.. project "twin snorkel" begins... once again thanks for your help...
Ari
1976 450 slc- 861 silver green metallic
1964 MGB
1964 VW 1300 beetle ( in storage)
1963 EJ special (keeping the beetle company)
1997 Magna - "the ute"
2000 Yamaha YZF R6- road reg track day weapon
2009 Nissan Murano- wife's car
In the family- father 1929A model Ford Phaeton, brother 1976 911 s

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Greg in Oz
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Greg in Oz » Mon 18 Oct, 2010 10:32 pm

I snapped some photos of both my modified air box and the original air box from my 500SLC. I removed the plastic snorkel from the original (simply by removing the rivets) to fit it to the modified unit (by cutting an additional inlet apperture and fitting with pop rivets).

Note that both air boxes were much the same being alloy with plastic snorkel, however the differences are as follows:
1. Snorkel on opposite side.
2. Lid securing clips in slightly different locations (to suit snorkel locations).
3. 380 air box had small hole for air pump connection (which I blanked off).
4. Later air boxes have shallower indentation in lid which causes slightly less restriction above air flow meter.

In the photos below, the original (500SLC) air box is that with its snorkel removed and dirty filter element. The modified (ex 380) air box is that with two inlets and clean filter element. It was a good eBay purchase at $5 including as-new filter element (although interstate postage was another $20).
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107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Greg in Oz
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Greg in Oz » Mon 18 Oct, 2010 10:41 pm

A few photos of my 500SLC engine with the modified air box (and with air box removed to show air flow meter and fuel distributor).
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107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Greg in Oz
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Greg in Oz » Mon 18 Oct, 2010 10:48 pm

And a few close-ups of the modified air box on the engine.
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107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Greg in Oz
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Greg in Oz » Tue 19 Oct, 2010 12:18 am

Almost forgot, the cold air intake mod for early 107s (with D-Jet) I mentioned in the second post of this topic can be found at viewtopic.php?f=69&t=9954 over in "107 Mods".

Also, does anyone object if I move this topic over to the "107 Mods" board? It is probably more appropriate there as it discusses a modification to a 107.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by AMG » Tue 19 Oct, 2010 7:44 am

I looked at doing this some time ago with my 560 SL - i.e. swapping the intake for a dual intake, but it's just not possible in a late 107 engine bay without extensive modifications.

to be honest, you'd simply be better off with putting in a 560 snorkel with the cold air intake plastics in the front. You may still have to cut sheetmetal to make this happen.

If you are going to do something like Greg, then before you consider this, remove the exhaust manifolds and go and have them blasted and ceramic coated inside and out before you apply a huge side opening in your airbox. a 107 engine bay is cramped and does get VERY warm. enough to negate the airbox mod application.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Greg in Oz
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Greg in Oz » Tue 19 Oct, 2010 5:36 pm

Joe makes a very valid point and one that certainly crossed my mind. A large opening in the air box above the exhaust manifold is going to draw hot air (remember the days of carbies when this was done deliberately to prevent carbies icing up?). In the 500SLC it's probably even worse with two manifolds and engine pipes ("tri-Ys") on each side. What probably prevented me worrying too much about it was the type of use my car would get. Being a club car, my 500SLC gets driven almost exclusively at speed and on the open road (and occasionally at the race track). Under these conditions there is plenty of cool air being pushed through the engine bay which drives the hot air off the manifolds out underneath the car. This is unlike in slow traffic where the only air movement will be from the fan so hot air rising off the manifolds will be more likely and the air temperature after the radiator will be higher due to the lower velocity.

Something I noticed with the cold air intake mod to my 350SLC was that the benefits were obvious when accelerating after being in slow traffic. On the open road the benefits weren't nearly as obvious supporting my belief that engine bay temperatures are much higher in slow traffic. If you are going to use the car in slow traffic I would agree with Joe that even a single cold air intake would be preferable to twin intakes in the engine bay. If the car is going to be driven predominantly on the open road, then a cold air intake may not provide such a great benefit, and two intakes in the engine bay may provide some advantage over a single external one.

Something I do know is that the twin intakes on mine allow for a subtle but satisfying induction note at wide open throttle. In my opinion an even nicer sound than a good exhaust note. Have a listen to my Youtube videos ("500SLCinOz") to get an idea of the sound.
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by SELfor50 » Tue 19 Oct, 2010 7:45 pm

Just my 2c.. but the twin snorkel housing was installed on my 6.9 Racecar but without any of the plastic attachments at all... just the silver box with both sides open at the metal. K&N air filter as well...
But even though it draws hot air in (and being an M100 cast iron block and the manifolds being For King and country hot - the temp is ridiculous).. it's still getting more air.
I put the stock air filter housing back on.. big single side metal thing, and it felt like someone had hooked up a trailer. Was phenominal the difference. A mate asked what was wrong with my car...
I kept it on for 3 days or so cause I though it couldn't have made that much difference... turns out it did. Swapped it back and the housing with both sides open gave me my power back.

Hot air isn't as good. But still more air is better than less. Although, best idea is to get your ish ceramic coated as well to help again.

If I had a 107 and had no room route air from the front (like a 116) it would be jigsaw hole in bonnet time. Just get a 2nd bonnet, colour match.. and a small gill with the plastic side (on the tight side) routed upwards and then the bonnet closes over it with cold air sucked down in... I reckon it'd be a cracker of a mod.

...that was probably 7c worth. :bounce:

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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Greg in Oz » Tue 19 Oct, 2010 9:27 pm

Hey Cam,

Brilliant! I'm pretty sure I've got some fresh jigsaw blades, and if I haven't the gas axe should do just fine. Besides, the aluminium bonnet on the 500SLC should be a piece of p**s to deal with! Sure is a good idea about the small grille (or did you really mean gills? - although they might need a bit more skill with the jigsaw). Whatever, you need something to keep small birds and other road kill outa' there as furry critters like that is sure gunna' make it feel like someone just hooked up a big trailer!

On a slightly more serious note, do you think the K&N are worth it? I have never tried one as I've always considered the OEM paper filter elements to be of generous surface area. Besides, I've never been keen messing about with goopy foam elements trying to guess how much oil to add to them. Not that it would worry any of my cars, but I've also heard that oiled foam elements can be bad news for newer cars with hot wire (or similar) air flow meters. I guess the best test would be K&N vs OEM vs no air filter element on a dyno.

Greg
107023 - 350SLC: 1973, 3sp auto, icon gold, parchment MBtex (sold July 2012 after 29 years ownership)
107026 - 500SLC: 1981, 4sp auto, thistle green, green velour
124090 - 300TE: 1990, 4sp auto, arctic white, cream-beige MBtex
124090 - 300TE: 1992, 4sp auto, malachite (spruce green), black MBtex
201024 - 190E-2.0: 1985, 5sp manual, black, black MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 5sp manual, arctic white, blue leather
201028 - 190E-2.3: 1992, 4sp auto, blueblack, grey MBtex
201028 - 190E-2.3 Sportline: 1990, 4sp auto, signal red, black cloth (parts car)
201034 - 190E-2.3-16 Cosworth: 1985, 5sp manual, blueblack, black leather
YG2S8 - Mini Clubman GT: 1972, 4sp manual, blue, parchment vinyl (my first car which I still own)

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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by Giles » Tue 19 Oct, 2010 10:40 pm

Guys, would this be a case of track car v's Concourse car?

Regards,

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

aoslc76
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by aoslc76 » Wed 20 Oct, 2010 12:34 am

Hey guys,
didnt realize my post went over to the mods part. Thanks for the photos Greg! spent a couple of hours cleaning and polishing the 560 box tonight, used a heap of autosol and a fair bit of elbow grease to remove however many years of oxidisation and grime from it- couldnt believe how damn light the thing is compared to the original steel one. With only limited time after work every night and the autoclassica car show here in melbourne this weekend which I definately will be going to, it might take me a couple of weeks but I'm sure I'll get there. Will post photos of my progress. Thanks once again
Ari
1976 450 slc- 861 silver green metallic
1964 MGB
1964 VW 1300 beetle ( in storage)
1963 EJ special (keeping the beetle company)
1997 Magna - "the ute"
2000 Yamaha YZF R6- road reg track day weapon
2009 Nissan Murano- wife's car
In the family- father 1929A model Ford Phaeton, brother 1976 911 s

SELfor50
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Re: 560 twin snorkel onto 450slc?

Post by SELfor50 » Wed 20 Oct, 2010 9:00 am

Greg in Oz wrote:Hey Cam,

Brilliant! I'm pretty sure I've got some fresh jigsaw blades, and if I haven't the gas axe should do just fine. Besides, the aluminium bonnet on the 500SLC should be a piece of p**s to deal with! Sure is a good idea about the small grille (or did you really mean gills? - although they might need a bit more skill with the jigsaw). Whatever, you need something to keep small birds and other road kill outa' there as furry critters like that is sure gunna' make it feel like someone just hooked up a big trailer!

On a slightly more serious note, do you think the K&N are worth it? I have never tried one as I've always considered the OEM paper filter elements to be of generous surface area. Besides, I've never been keen messing about with goopy foam elements trying to guess how much oil to add to them. Not that it would worry any of my cars, but I've also heard that oiled foam elements can be bad news for newer cars with hot wire (or similar) air flow meters. I guess the best test would be K&N vs OEM vs no air filter element on a dyno.

Greg

Hahah... yeah, put some cover on it.. last thing you want is a bird in your engine. :laughing5:
Naturally I wouldn't hack up an original (especially aluminium) bonnet. Just find a 2nd one, hack it, then get it colour matched.. surely there's a few wrecks out there to steal a test bonnet from?!

Anyway, K&N.. definitely notice the increase in power. Never dealt with foam with it?! Give it a good wash before every event... let it dry properly.. then oil up. The oil sucks through all the parts of the filter... so you only gotta run a small line across the angled / sharp bits all around the filter.. and it fills in through the filter. I used too much first time I did it and it all just disperses wherever you sit it to dry.. so less is more in this case.

But I know a few people using them now, and they claim it's noticeable.. especially on a cold night. Car runs better on a cold night, but with the K&N just even better again.

Plus you never have to buy another filter again after that.... Oil recharge pack lasted me about 2 years as well.

Cam.

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