W210 advice on ownership & reliability

[jas-300-sel]

So guys I'm looking for advice please. My daily driver is a one owner W126 300SEL that I want to keep in pristine condition with low km. When my 126 goes in the shed so to speak for special occasions I'm considering a W210 as my daily driver.
The W126 is a fairly simple car that all in all is reasonable to own & run, is the W210 the same? I have an excellent mechanic who is fairly affordable.

I'm happy to spend good money for a very good car as I believe that like my 126 you get what you pay for, so assume that any models reccomeded will be the best available with full service history etc.

The shopping list is as follows but I'd consider other variants based on reccomendations.

W210 E320 or E430 Wagon is prefered but sedan may do?
A W210 E55 would be sublime but are there pitfalls to this high performance model?

I had also considered a W220 S class but I'm seriously concerned about repair costs to the many and varied electronic systems in this model, if you own a W220 and can advise me that they're not a money pit please feel free to sells me the dream :)

I'd love your thoughts and opinions on a 210 model that will be as good to own as my 126.

Thanks for your time & input.

Jason

[Ivanerrol]

The W210 is one of those now un-loved models, however this works in your favor because there are quite a few good cars out there with low K's and cheap price.
There are the M104 models up to 1996/7 - oil leaks and older treansmission.

post '97 up to 2000 update features V6 engines and 722.6 electronic 5 speed tranny.
post 2000 W210's came with the tiptronic and more modern body style.

Things to look out for.
All engines must use good quality synthetic oil. The engines were made to stricter tolerances for emission purposes. Check under the oil cap - if you see coffee walk away.
The transmissions need their fluid and filters changed every 80,000K's. Additionally the oil separation plug should be changed. - If a transmission has any sort of niggles - walk away.
Small oil leaks from the oil cooler assembly and oil inspection port at the front of the engine leak onto the harmonic balancer. If the balancer fails it's a $$$$ job to fix
Rust doesn't seem to much of an issue in Australia - it is overseas particularly in snowy countries. I saw a W210 last week with serious rust forming around the moon roof.
Window winders have a habit of failing - not a difficult DIY job.
Keep an eye on your wheel balancing and alignment.

IMHO If you buy a car with 15 inch wheels, get some 16 inch alloys

The engine oil change is 8 litres of high quality synthetic oil

The paint work is water based. Pre '97 cars are enamel. You will find the paintwork on your W126 far superior to a W210

4 years ago I paid $7K for my latest W210 with 120K's on the clock. I now have just over 160K's on the clock but would be lucky to sell it privately for more than $4K

There are some rubbish W210's out there but also so retirees cars with not many K's and not much money.
Just choose carefully and get a PPI.

You maybe disappointed in the quality of your W126 compared to a W210.
I bought a brand new W210 in 2001, I took my mother for a ride in it and she noted the ambient difference between my older cars and it.

For running around town I prefer my W202.

[Giles]

G'day Jason,
I'll second ivanerrol on most of his points about the W210.
I would like to add that I owned a E430 Avantegard for 10 years (has been wifes car, soon to be mine as I'm selling my Territory Turbo) we've just ordered a new Mazda CX-9. It killed the Euro offerings for bang for buck.
The W210 may not be built the same a W126 but the car has been fairly faithful. They are as cheap as chips now and a good one is well under $10K-. I did briefly have an E55 but for day to day use I actually preferred the E430 for comfort. The E55 brake replacement prices will scare you if you didn't already know.
My E430 has 230,000 kms on it and the drive line is fine. Over the period I've owned it I've had to replace the harmonic balancer, known issue, the AC compressor (sourced from the US for less than half local price) and recently the radiator. All in all I still enjoy the car but the paintwork needs refreshing. When inspecting W210's look for rust in the doors and as mentioned around the sunroof.

Newer passenger side door on hand to replace rusty ones and in the paint shop soon.

IMG_7287.JPG

[Ivanerrol]

The E55 brake replacement prices will scare you if you didn't already know.

I forgot this issue.
Anything :
E36
E55
AMG

Consumable prices are mouth watering.

A mate waited weeks for front disc rotors for his E36 and they were something like $600.00 aftermarket.

[jas-300-sel]

Awesome advice guys, thanks so much. It's worth noting that I recently drove a 2006 W211 E200k and whilst was a nice car it certainly lacked the ambience and quality of my W126. In fact I'll go as far to say that my previous car that was a 2006 VW Passat V6 4-Motion was much nicer than the 211 but the VW was eye wateringly expensive to own, hence my decision to buy a really good classic car. The balance is very hard to find.

I'll keep thinking as I'm by no means in a hurry to buy something, maybe I just need to be a one trick pony with Mercs and stick to my 126 and buy a used a Camry as my daily. I'm kind of joking but kind of serious, I just know it would probably crush my soul for the majority of the time and mildly amuse me for the rest of the time.

Cheers fellas

Jas

[TheMadRacoon]

Or you could buy another W126 to rack up the miles in.

[jas-300-sel]

well I'd at least have to get an SEC and if I'm going to an SEC it may as well be a 560 SEC with values going up and all that. I wonder if I could find a nice low km Astral Silver 560 SEC to match my SEL

[chrishbbq]

Just my two cents - I have 1998 W210 E280 (not the engines/spec you seem to be after though) but it has not missed a beat, with no expenses out of the blue. Purchased at 200k and now have about 220k on it.

Only point I have is the interior doesn't seem to hold up as well as previous series - rattles from the sunroof and general trim rattle, but apart from that it's a tank. I know people don't like them and don't consider them a true Mercedes-Benz for whatever reason, but mine has been lovely to drive and run.

[ANF]

I had a 97 E320 Avantgarde for 7 or so years - it had the m104 straight six and the newer 5 speed auto (unlike the 96 which had 4 speed) - the best of both worlds. Performance and economy, plus they look great!
It simply was the best car that I have owned (apart from my Porsche)! Maintenance was easy and problems were very minor. My new ML is good at what it does but I prefer the E class and if it had not met an unfortunate end I would still have it.
I second chrishbbq these are greats cars, unfortunately they are now getting older and cheaper, so neglect can be high but find a good one and you will love it.

[AMG]

I'd echo Adam's sentiments on the model, the last of the m104 engines with the 722.6 auto would be my pick.

But, I hate the 210. I think it's possibly the most tasteless and shameful styling/ design exercise Mercedes-Benz had the gall to inflict on us from 1995.

Oh the 211 was a relief to my eyes.

Mechanically though, they're a bit comme ci comme ça - it all depends on how it was looked after.

the E55AMG was possibly a little easier on the eye, but certainly not on the wallet. Great drivetrain. Horrendously expensive to maintain.

Interior-wise I think they are bland. Holden dunnydoor ford falchoon bland, just with leather that smells nicer.

I would not put a 210 into the same class as the w126.

For servicing - when 210 parts go, you pay money for new pieces of expensive plastic. You need to get a star C3/4 diagnostic with xentry to make sure you can properly read all the additional codes, not just the generic ones. They are not 'fixable' like a w126. What I mean by that, is that you buy and replace bits of plastic or modules. Repairing is not a practice that is 'designed into' the parts - theyre 'designed' to be put into the recycling bin...

the tradeoff is the 210 has very good reliability and fuel economy with the efi engine, compared to the slightly less efficient CIS-E on your w126. 210 is lighter, smaller, has a more aerodynamic frontal area profile and lower rolling resistance.
the later transmission has driver learnign capabilities, which once reset and learned for a new driver, make the car very nice for you, but not so nice when someone else with a different driving style gets behind the wheel.

I guess if you can live with the tasteless styling, then they are an improvement on a w140 in terms of reliable electrics, but they are certainly no w126.

Id rather buy another w124 than subject my driveway to the horror of a w210.

There. I've vented. No need to take me seriously on the vehicles looks - they're polarizing - you either love them, or love to hate them.

And, I've been spoiled - in owning Schultz. That car was absolutely immaculate until some dipwad p-plater rear-ended it. I'll never get over it, and never forgive. If that means I'm showing bias, you betcha. But I've never seen a w126 in a condition anywhere near as good since - and I still keep looking.

Drive the w126. or, buy another one and drive it. Or buy something that really sets your heart on fire. does a 210 set your heart on fire???? I guess it might for some.

It's OK for an appliance - but so is a vw golf. or a kia rio.

[ANF]

Wow, don't hold back there, tell us what you really think!!

"Advice on ownership and reliability" was the question, not "do you hate this car"!
This attitude towards anything modern was the main reason that I have stayed away for the past 3 odd years, and will keep me away indefinitely! Ozbenz = classics only!
There are lots of Mercedes cars that I neither like the styling of or how they perform, but others do so I can respect that!

"Drive the w126. or, buy another one and drive it. Or buy something that really sets your heart on fire. does a 210 set your heart on fire???? I guess it might for some.

It's OK for an appliance - but so is a vw golf. or a kia rio."

Your comments are insulting, but hey I guess that is what you wanted.......

[T-Modell]

Well taste :whistle: ... I remember in 1995, the "four-eyes" design was quite "revolutionary". Imho it was a good car of its time, just rusted away. I didn't think the design was either pretty awesome nor awful. I had two S210 and now an S211 ... and imho there's not a big difference in styling. Where MB got really ugly, was with the W212, the "aggressive Autobahn" design.

Anyway; if the W210 has such a bad reputation, it's a good cheap buy

Thomas

P. S.: And for the peace in here ... we all love each other :

03 Auto Blumen Stern_1024x768.JPG

[Bartman4800]

I like honesty, even if it is a bit hurtful
And I believe in the motto: everyone is entitled to my opinion

But yes, let's keep the peace :love4:

Bart

[Ivanerrol]

Hi Thomas. We are fortunate in Australia that rust is a minimal issue.

The 4 eyed concept was a revolutionary departure from the then squarish headlight look. However every other manufacturer copied the concept :whistle:
Benz stylists doing it again.

I currently own two W202s and a W210.
The W202's are the daily city drivers whereas the W210 is the garage queen and bought out for the Melbourne - Noosa round trips.
I have owned that W210 for 4 years and in that time it's done 30,000K's - 5 trips to Noosa and back or 80% of that 30K,K.
It's great on the highway - a cruiser. But heavy on the daily city runs. I do have 255/55'.16's on it rather than the OEM 195/65.15's.
It's got a few clunks and internal creeks and bangs. This car has spent most of its now 160,000K life on the Hume (P.O. used it up and down that road).
Paintwork is excellent for it's 20 year existence. - but I'll put that down for it's garage queenish life.

It's a solid car but nowhere near as solid as the pre '97 W202's.
The W202's now need some attention that will require more dollars than their economic value. I've been using the W210 for daily driving. Even though it's only showing 160,K's on the clock, it's a little obvious that getting to the 300,000K's of my one of the W202's is going to cost some $$ to get there.

Current plans are to replace the W202's with a W204 post 2008 V6 and keep the W210 for the Melbourne - Noosa jaunt.

W210 at 160,000k's now needs
(a) Front lower control arm bushings rear suspension bushings.
(b) Front struts
(c) Transmission fluid change
(d) Suss out that annoying clunking in the front dashboard
(e) general fluid change.
(f) plugs and leads
(g) The EGR rubbers have gone hard and need replacing
The cost to do these will most likely exceed the economic cost of the car. However at 160K's it's worthwhile.

Many more M112's have been installed than M104's.

Kent Bergsma. : I've grown tired of replacing head gaskets on M104's

[AMG]

Well taste :whistle: ... I remember in 1995, the "four-eyes" design was quite "revolutionary". Imho it was a good car of its time, just rusted away. I didn't think the design was either pretty awesome nor awful. I had two S210 and now an S211 ... and imho there's not a big difference in styling. Where MB got really ugly, was with the W212, the "aggressive Autobahn" design.
Anyway; if the W210 has such a bad reputation, it's a good cheap buy
Thomas
P. S.: And for the peace in here ... we all love each other :

I like honesty, even if it is a bit hurtful
And I believe in the motto: everyone is entitled to my opinion
But yes, let's keep the peace :love4:
Bart

Hahahaa yes, we do share the love :love4:
But some people can't see past the jibe and only read what they want to..
I guess I should have provided a spoonful of harden up, to be served with the soft styling ??? ;)

:occasion5:

Ohh w212 update.... Thomas - Yes, that does make me feel 'borrowed design influences' uncomfortable. And at a distance it's hard to tell the difference between a Honda or camry of similar vintage from the rear at night... Parts of the update look okay, and some don't - it's a little 'disjointed'... like the wheelarch bulges of the 221.... or the 220's front versus rear styling. But back to the 210 - I think Steve Mattin was perhaps trying to please his boss (Bruno Sacco) and make an equal "sequel" to the 201/124/140. But the styling period eschewed the 'box' styling cues, and the 90's was all about ellipses and compound curves..... Possibly the worst example was the Ford Taurus... See how quickly that has dated....

I still have nightmares of beige w210 taxis. :occasion5:

Back in 2010 I had this fleeting encounter with an e55, for a week in sydney traffic. I couldn't live with it. It was suffering from what you'd call "previous owner abuse" and had HVAC issues (control panel) as well as a very clunky auto. I drove it for a total of 4 days, each trip came with a different dash warning light permanently stuck on. The car went back to the dealer 'friend' and I picked up the 124 coupe and drove it back home, feeling vindicated - primarily because I knew that fixing the e55's problems was going to cost more than the purchase price of the car, but also seeing that it did not offer anything special over and above the cars I already had.
Also had the use of a super-low mileage e430 as a 3-day loaner while some work was being done on Stella in late 2011. Boy that was the weirdest engine / trans combo - a screaming small v8 that revved out in no time flat, got you acceleration to 60 but not much else after. I think the transmission was in need of a reset, but there was a fundamental feeling of "disconnect" in the e430 - it felt so isolated from the driving experience. I think this is primarily why there are people who like it and people who do not. It's not a car that yells 'driver involvement'. I can understand why Les uses his w210 for the interstate trips - it makes sense for something like that. Driving around Canberra it was not enjoyable at all.
Comfortable, I guess that was another thing - I did not particularly like the seats. My posterior I guess, had become very much used to the lovely c124 electric seats and the 2.3-16's electric recaros. Both of those vehicles have ergonomics which suit my broken skeleton, and make long trips comfortable, not just 'bearable'.

But the styling has dated like all of the 'soft' shapes of the early 90's and I thank my lucky stars for not partaking.

Also, transmissions - a lot of 210's are starting to suffer the common conductor plate failures and connector breakage issues, like the other models of the era. This is one area where a DIY'er would have advantage, as having a shop do an R&R on the 722.6 valvebody and replace the conductor plates (possibly soleoids as well) can get pretty pricey - not because it's particularly complicated ot complex, but because it's an easy money spinner.
It's one area that will eventually affect pretty much all 722.6's because the heat cycling of the plastic conductor plate - thermal expansion / contraction is what causes the failures. It might be slightly less problematic in the tropical north perhaps.

And like any "old" mercedes, the suspension bushes are likely to need replacing, and wholesale replacement will make a massive difference to the car - it does make them feel 'new' again. Possibly worth it if you are going to use / abuse it for another 10 years. Les has highlighted what he believes his car 'needs' and that's a fair call.

As for Kent's comment about him being sick of m104 head gaskets - every manufacturer makes assembly mistakes - but the fact that the reason for m104 gasket replacement is an oil leak at the timing cover seal and not actual combustion chamber sealing gasket failure, makes it a 'case in waiting'... We could talk about v6 balance issues..... and argue black and blue over AFM's, throttle body wiring, engine bay bioharness... etc etc ad infinitum. the M104 is pretty reliable, as is the v6 for the most part - IF - it sees proper regular servicing. (like anything!!!) but the proportion of neglected examples versus good well-maintained ones is reasonably disproportionate here.

Like I said in my previous post - if you are a DIY'er, then a w210 is not a 'repair' vehicle, it's a 'replace' vehicle.... which is fine, if all you like to do is pull apart stuff and put in another piece of plastic with circuit boards inside. If you want someone else to look after it, then it's future is inevitably "going for service" to spend a lot of time having things 'replaced' - this partially why there are so many out there for sale so cheap - because paying a workshop to do the 'replace' is quite labour intensive in some cases... also, needing to use the star/xentry to continually check / reset / key replacement modules can become a pain in the backside. If you spent the money on the star / Das / Xentry then you could feasibly buy a w210 for almost the same money as the scan tool....

A really good runner, with a decent service record should give a reasonable lifespan, but that is no guarantee. The time is about correct for electronic issues to become more and more prevalent, and as the vehicle ages, they can only become more likely, than less.

Without knowing your budget, it's hard to say whether or not purchasing a 210 would be a sensible decision. Given the market, there are a lot of other vehicles in the same general price bracket, that potentially fit, but the vehicle use case is something that should be established and compared against other models if you are truly seeking a replacement for your 126. the w211 had a lot of improvements, but the earlier ones still fit the "chrysler era" like the 210. from 2009 on, you're looking at a price hike, which reflects the end of the "chrysler era" more than it reflects on the cars themselves.

Styling-wise, the 211 is an improvement, especially in the rear, a little better on the front. But you're stil looking at 2002-2007. Nonetheless, you can see they start around 10K for an e250 CDI / E350 - 18-20K would buy you a very very nice low km car and culminate in the 50-60K range for the very swanky E500 cabriolet / coupe variants.

The fact the car is also nearly 10 years younger also means you have a little more life left in them - but obviously you're paying for it! ;)

a w221 S class, which is a little more like your 126 in size etc, is around 40K for an S350 - again, there are a couple of usual S-class related price 'pain points' when servicing, but on the whole the interior is quite decent. Not sure about the exterior styling, but it's like the 210 - beauty is in the eyes of the beholder... again, there is an additional 10 years worth of depreciation / life left in the model, and for those reasons I see the vehicles as having more bang-for-buck than a 210.

[KimB]

I have resisted chiming in here, particularly about AMG's wonderful pro W126 remarks. :occasion5:

However:

"Ohh w212 update.... Thomas - Yes, that does make me feel 'borrowed design influences' uncomfortable. And at a distance it's hard to tell the difference between a Honda or camry of similar vintage from the rear at night.."

Well, you never have any trouble telling the difference between the rear of a W126 beastie with any other car.

They're just that stately on the road!




Cheers
W126 Nutter

[T-Modell]

..
Also had the use of a super-low mileage e430 as a 3-day loaner while some work was being done on Stella in late 2011. Boy that was the weirdest engine / trans combo - a screaming small v8 that revved out in no time flat, got you acceleration to 60 but not much else after....

No wonder, when you guys down under reach 60 you already panic about speed controls ... Sorry, but I drove an S210 E430 from new to 200,000kms and it was the best engine ever. I didn't stop at 60, it went up to 250, used no oil at all and the repair cost over 6 years were basically the inspections.

I would highly recommend this 430 to everyone who's interested in a W210.

Regards
Thomas

[W108-1967 250S]

Have owned my 2000 model year W210 E240 wagon since 2012, bought second hand with 103 000 K's on it, now at 150 000, so still hopefully a lot to go!
Second hand (especially the wagons) they are absolute bargains. Best car I've ever owned, amazing comfort, with the famous E class magic carpet ride. Have enjoyed things like the well sorted cruise control, CD stacker and the kids like the sunroof! So far have had to replace one rear window regulator, and a V belt, both relatively simple DIY jobs. Had to have a bit of work and parts replaced on the self levelling rear suspension, also pretty straight forward, details of this on another post . Also done some oil changes and yes, 8 litres of fully synthetic is not cheap!
Personally I find the styling interesting as it was a huge change for Mercedes Benz and was the start of the modern era twin round headlight run of design. The W210 was said to echo back to the headlight design of the Famous 50's Pontons and Adenauers which I think it does.
As I said some absolute bargains to be had in the second hand market. In my experience these are the tips I've found to be true. Only buy if the car has a well kept and up to date service record. Make sure everything works.