Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 5:10 pm

So, reassembly...

Got the flywheel on. Torqued to 35NM then done an extra tight turn for 45-60 degrees. they seem really tight now :) I read it somewhere that it should be 30 to 40NM then an extra 90-100 degree turn with a braker bar, but i felt i was going to break something if i tightened any further than 35nm than an extra 50odd degrees.

tightened them up in pattern.
22546800_10212365855954292_557417389_o.jpg

now to put clutch in
22522478_10212365855794288_1004228530_o.jpg

Lubricating things up....
22522249_10212365855674285_1644468941_o.jpg

now, with the position of the levers on the gearbox, they will be a pain to connect to with the rods after the gearbox is in the car, so i decided to attach now...

The linkage rubbers are 3d printed TPU, Poly-urethane material, just the right amount of give :)
22522093_10212365854954267_938222926_o.jpg

However, the rods are way too dirty for my liking...

Needs a clean..

Partial clean...
22429120_10212365854874265_1259045046_o.jpg
22550822_10212366066799563_871273139_o.jpg
and now clean...
22563746_10212366065679535_60748217_o.jpg

oh and i took measurements so i can 3d print the rubber linkage parts for the other end of the rods...
22532070_10212365854554257_2130633839_o.jpg
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merc-304
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 7:24 pm

Gee thats a massive amount of Lube....others will know more than me but if you havent put the box in yet id say clean 90% of it away.
What type of Lube is it ?
380 SEC

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 15 Oct, 2017 7:49 pm

merc-304 wrote:
Sun 15 Oct, 2017 7:24 pm
Gee thats a massive amount of Lube....others will know more than me but if you havent put the box in yet id say clean 90% of it away.
What type of Lube is it ?
What can i say :P

it's high temp ball bearing greease :)

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Thu 19 Oct, 2017 8:50 pm

todays update.

time to get the shifter out of the doner 240D car.
22643287_10212396241273906_1276876143_o.jpg
taking the cover trim out.
22642082_10212396241153903_1755083080_o.jpg


out we come
22641801_10212396241113902_1659916154_o.jpg
22642990_10212396240833895_630425081_o.jpg
disassembly
22641839_10212396240793894_884913946_o.jpg
and clean
22641871_10212396240473886_1970488742_o.jpg


i couldn't for the life of me find my molly Disulphide, so a quick trip down to the store and got some, however, there's no light now. so assembly tomorrow.
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Thu 19 Oct, 2017 9:14 pm

mathuisella wrote:
Sun 15 Oct, 2017 5:10 pm
So, reassembly...

Got the flywheel on. Torqued to 35NM then done an extra tight turn for 45-60 degrees. they seem really tight now :) I read it somewhere that it should be 30 to 40NM then an extra 90-100 degree turn with a braker bar, but i felt i was going to break something if i tightened any further than 35nm than an extra 50odd degrees.

tightened them up in pattern.

22546800_10212365855954292_557417389_o.jpg


They are stretch bolts.

If you don't tighten them up to the correct spec, they will come loose - in no time flat you'll have a bunch of broken bolts, a flywheel coming out the bellhousing and half a leg sliced open.

or you'll just break your input shaft pressure plate and clutch disc.

follow the specs in the manual, use a long breaker bar.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Thu 19 Oct, 2017 9:37 pm

AMG wrote:
Thu 19 Oct, 2017 9:14 pm
mathuisella wrote:
Sun 15 Oct, 2017 5:10 pm
So, reassembly...

Got the flywheel on. Torqued to 35NM then done an extra tight turn for 45-60 degrees. they seem really tight now :) I read it somewhere that it should be 30 to 40NM then an extra 90-100 degree turn with a braker bar, but i felt i was going to break something if i tightened any further than 35nm than an extra 50odd degrees.

tightened them up in pattern.

22546800_10212365855954292_557417389_o.jpg


They are stretch bolts.

If you don't tighten them up to the correct spec, they will come loose - in no time flat you'll have a bunch of broken bolts, a flywheel coming out the bellhousing and half a leg sliced open.

or you'll just break your input shaft pressure plate and clutch disc.

follow the specs in the manual, use a long breaker bar.

I'll get the breaker bar out and torque them the extra 45 degrees in the morning :)

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:37 pm

okay, flywheel bolts are done, torques up to 35NM and then added 90 degrees with a breaker bar :) they are really snug tight down.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Ivanerrol » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 12:28 pm

W211 - E240
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W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by merc-304 » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 12:46 pm

Anyone else think the amount of lube on input shaft in pic above is excessive ...and is likely to be thrown around and contanimate the clutch plate ?
380 SEC

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 2:04 pm

Ivanerrol wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 12:28 pm
Too late :boohoo:

http://www.carpoint.com.au/all-cars/pri ... 4153&Cr=19
that's a nice buy depending on what's wrong as why it's " not running"

I took off the excess grease and got the gearbox mounted. Today is raining again so no car work :(

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Sat 21 Oct, 2017 5:19 pm

merc-304 wrote:
Sat 21 Oct, 2017 12:46 pm
Anyone else think the amount of lube on input shaft in pic above is excessive ...and is likely to be thrown around and contanimate the clutch plate ?
Yeah, wipe it off.

don't need it there. especially on the splines. what you need on the splines is a fine fine smear of silver antisieze and nothign else. use htb on the pivot fork ball and pack the throwout bearing a little (but wipe all excess from the face) and certainly put some on the end of the slave cyl rod in the back of the pivot fork. not an excessive amount.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by tsharkey » Wed 25 Oct, 2017 9:53 pm

There is a rusty 5 speed wagon over in SA you could use to upgrade your conversion ....

viewtopic.php?f=80&t=12692&p=175928#p175928
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD 5 Speed Manual, to teach the kids how to drive
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Thu 02 Nov, 2017 1:36 am

Okay so gearbox is in place

doing it up....
22906273_10212468558881801_1101344194_o.jpg
next is the custom length driveline.
22906394_10212468559001804_2075469690_o.jpg
22883929_10212469288180033_363094958_o.jpg
23030813_10212469287540017_823143373_o.jpg
23157760_10212484750286576_1992434738_o.jpg
then it's time to modify the gearbox mount.

I have 2 mounts, using the one in worse condition as a test.
23158358_10212484753286651_862981413_o.jpg

23112918_10212484752326627_1249299626_o.jpg
23107606_10212484752166623_687235171_o.jpg
23131242_10212484750246575_892511123_o.jpg
fitting it
23113131_10212484751086596_1619350364_o.jpg
and now the test, taking away the jack
23131182_10212484750646585_1744791517_o (1).jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by tsharkey » Thu 02 Nov, 2017 8:03 am

Hi - Can I ask why the rear engine mount didn't just bolt in - is the actual chassis different there in the 240D ?
W123 1981 300TD - Family Kid mover
W202 1998 C250D Factory OM605A Turbo - Partner's daily driver
W123 1982 300CD Retro fitted OM617A Turbo - Mine
W123 1984 300TD 5 Speed Manual, to teach the kids how to drive
W123 1982 300TD Factory OM617A Turbo (Hans) - Project
W123 1985 230TE - Brother's
W123 1985 300D - Sister in Law's
1962 S-Series Valiant (Tho Daimler & Chrysler divorced, still part of the extended family)

Past benzes
W114 1969 250CE - PO put in an M110 transplant and nearly sent me around the bend
W123 1981 300TD - "Matilda" - RIP hit front side & rear but left my brother + niece A-OK

Current Projects
Coupe restoration, Turbo Wagon freshen up

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Thu 02 Nov, 2017 4:15 pm

tsharkey wrote:
Thu 02 Nov, 2017 8:03 am
Hi - Can I ask why the rear engine mount didn't just bolt in - is the actual chassis different there in the 240D ?
assuming you mean the transmission/gearbox mount ?

the tunnel is more of a "V" rather than a rectangle straight one. there are 4 positions for mounts spaced along the tunnel, this allows for various transmission and engine combinations. However, with this combination of engine being longer than the 240d and the transmission being shorter than the automatic, it put it into position 2 along the tunnel, rather than position 1, so the mount i had was a bit too wide/long.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sat 04 Nov, 2017 12:30 am

So, if it counts, today i put fresh oil in the diff and gearbox
23191842_10212507509375539_838467006_o.jpg
23261874_10212507508815525_1955630638_o.jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 05 Nov, 2017 7:28 pm

Today's work

Here's the shifter that's being a pain in the arse.

Got it together and put it in the car. Although not the cleanest as i would've liked, but as you all know i'm very short on time to get this done.

23269923_10212515010203055_127158124_o.jpg

under the car, put in a welding rod to keep the shifter in neutral position to get all the nest parts done
23269860_10212515009963049_1443855880_o.jpg
as you can all see, the rods are all too long

time to mark, cut weld, grind and paint





before welding, making sure it all lines up nicely
23269927_10212515010003050_1798500073_o.jpg
in the vice


a quick snap shot of one of the tack welds before i go around and finish it up
23224840_10212515010643066_27143865_o.jpg
all 3 welded, not the prettiest by a long shot, but nice and strong
23313266_10212515010403060_2015606024_o.jpg
painted with some paint that i had for a previous car that should keep the weather off them

23261969_10212515011563089_1495776812_o.jpg
greasing these up with moly grease, looks like they haven't been greased since factory

23262176_10212515010563064_2057061569_o.jpg


Next part is to make bushings for the shifter end



Here we have my 3d printer making them with some TPU flexible filament.
ydg6v.jpeg
23262199_10212515153286632_1795403293_o.jpg
:)
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mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 05 Nov, 2017 7:32 pm

rubber pieces in :) ( could redesign them to be a better fit, but at this stage as long as things work asap i'm happy
23314062_10212523046923968_583051216_o.jpg
bonnet latch sucks with this home repair from previous owner...
23335894_10212523046883967_1507200955_o.jpg
replacement
19263991_10212523046803965_1069232853_o.jpg
all lubed up
23314379_10212523046643961_872750819_o.jpg
23313141_10212523047043971_1566986190_o.jpg
it closes and opens so beautifully now
23313017_10212523046443956_1157608168_o.jpg

Fuel tank level sending unit....

a bit dirty...
23335770_10212523046563959_9066778_o.jpg
putting in new wire and cleaning it up
23269901_10212523046843966_11711239_o.jpg
cleaned and reassembled

23335566_10212523046723963_661659502_o.jpg

i tried to do clutch bleed today, but it quite simply is a 2 man job :(


up next is the neutral safety switch bypass ( considering making this a secret momentary switch as an immobiliser of sorts, which would never be found by anyone not super familiar with a 30 to 40 year old Mercedes ;) )
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 06 Nov, 2017 9:54 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoRXRgwNXJM

SHE RUNS :D

edit:

gears shift really well, like a well cleaned and oiled bolt action rifle. :)

Now to do the general maintenance items and then get her back on the road.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by gazman » Mon 06 Nov, 2017 10:03 pm

Well done congratulations :occasion5:
1989 560 SEL King of the road

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 3:35 pm

gazman wrote:
Mon 06 Nov, 2017 10:03 pm
Well done congratulations :occasion5:
Thank you :)

now i need to bleed the brake system as the brake pedal isn't building pressure.

Also to find the 1 or more vacuum leaks in the system.

Bolt every panel and fitting back together and just tidy the whole car.

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 5:12 pm

Good Job.
What's the next project ? :laughing6: :occasion5:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Thu 09 Nov, 2017 12:43 pm

AMG wrote:
Wed 08 Nov, 2017 5:12 pm
Good Job.
What's the next project ? :laughing6: :occasion5:
HAHA nah, sticking with this car.

i like the w123 series, old enough with the classic looks, yet new enough to handle highways without stressing the motor and having the diesel + manual transmission is the combination i love :)

Also enjoy the lack of electrical in comparison to newer cars :)

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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 5:41 pm

23516058_10212567216508180_1700333915_o.jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Tue 14 Nov, 2017 6:47 pm

Signalrot :love10: :love4:
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Wed 15 Nov, 2017 9:41 pm

AMG wrote:
Tue 14 Nov, 2017 6:47 pm
Signalrot :love10: :love4:
Just for you :)


I got new tyres today :D
23660386_10212600151571536_1650761578_o.jpg
23634280_10212600150171501_1057525097_o.jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by AMG » Sun 19 Nov, 2017 8:32 am

There's something about a Signal Red Mercedes. Can't quite put a finger on it - but anyone who's owned one knows what I mean.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

mathuisella
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Mon 20 Nov, 2017 8:24 pm

AMG wrote:
Sun 19 Nov, 2017 8:32 am
There's something about a Signal Red Mercedes. Can't quite put a finger on it - but anyone who's owned one knows what I mean.
It's an awesomely vibrant colour that looks great.

I've finished the transmission conversion and now working on other aspects of the car. Right now it's the vacuum system
23798283_10212640671784516_1237970875_o (1).jpg
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by Tony From West Oz » Mon 20 Nov, 2017 10:42 pm

There is a non-return valve in the line from the main vacuum line from the vacuum pump to the CL system. It should be before the split to the vacuum tank and the door feed. The vacuum tank has a yellow line.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
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'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
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Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by unheardofinstruments » Sat 03 Mar, 2018 10:05 pm

TYou make me want to get a 3d printer, are you up for printing the bushes for me? Nice bunch of photo's and thanks for the log as I am putting a manual in my 300td project this really helped, thanks.

mathuisella
Adenauer
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun 08 Jun, 2014 7:03 am
Model you own: w123
Location: Brisbane, North side.

Re: Auto to manual transmission swap, a few questions.

Post by mathuisella » Sun 04 Mar, 2018 10:51 am

Glad this thread has been useful :)

Where abouts are you located ?

I've moved house and haven't set up my 3d printer yet.

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