Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

1976-1985: 230T, 230E, 230TE, 230CE, 280E, 280TE, 280CE, 240D, 300D, 300CD, 300TD,
Post Reply
280Ejim
C Class
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri 06 Feb, 2015 8:31 am
Model you own: w123

Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 280Ejim » Sat 17 Dec, 2016 7:40 pm

My W123 is a nice lowish mileage original 1982 saloon. Well worth keeping as good as possible, if not better. I've cleaned out the Front Hood Hinge closing area, reprimered it, then used Wurth coating. And I'll reprimer it again and final coat of Glasurit. All good. I've removed the Chrome Grilles at the base of the windscreen, and inspected in there, and polished. All good.
It appears that there is a drain hole in the recess of the Passenger side Windscreen wiper attachment point. Is this correct, and if so is there a way to check this out ? Should I remove the painted panel that sits between the 2 Wiper arms ? There are Phillips head screws holding this in place, are these all I need to remove ? Advice would be much appreciated.
I'd also like to remove the Black plastic trim on each side of the Front Windscreen, and check/clean this painted area as well. This black trim appears to be held in place with 3 countersunk Phillips Head screws. Is it just a matter of removing these screws, and lifting the trim up to inspect ?
I'm sure it won't be this easy, so any help/advice would be most grateful. Thanks, jim.

Kcodezd
B Class
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon 25 Jan, 2016 9:37 am
Model you own: w123
Location: Bris Vegas

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by Kcodezd » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 7:40 am

Hi 280ejim, yes to your question about a hole below the windscreen wiper. Below that there is a plastic funnel that directs any water towards the lowest part of the plenum where the crimped rubber tube is in the engine bay. Your painted plenum panel sounds like it has been removed before, as mine has plastic grommets at the front to hold it in position. You can remove it as the windscreen rubber is what holds it in place at the back. Be aware they used a foam type sealant between the surface of the cover and the body, which I would recommend replacing. I would also inspect inside the guards by removing the plastic dust shields at the rear of the front tyres, as they will hold any dirt from that falls from the bonnet hinge area. Also spraying a rust preventative inside the sill rails etc would be a very good idea. Stoping rust from starting to take hold is far easier than repairing it, believe me.
W123 280E
W211 E63 AMG

230ew123
Adenauer
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed 19 Oct, 2016 11:34 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: eaglemont + cranbourne sth

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 230ew123 » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 11:19 am

Yes, I removed and cleaned it. One of the easier jobs to do, and well worth doing. I made sure I had some of the consumable plastic rivets firstly which are at the front of the removable panel. (Upon closing, Masters had some champion brand which are almost identical to merc) There is a slight wiggle to remove the wiper arms after lifting the arm, wiggle the bolt cover, then lower the arm, the bolt cover hinges up fully then. (it is on utubby from the US merc repair entrepreneur).

The square plastic rivet centers for the cowl push down and are re-usable.

It is fairly straight forward and should be done I reckon every second year..warm soapy, brushes, water blaster and air compressors are wonderful.

The driver side plastic funnel below is a slight dog to remove and clean, you have to undo the two wiper arm bolts to get it out, bit like a rubik's cube puzzle (be gentle).

The black front vinyl cover pieces with the three screws is another adventure and I would recommend looking at the upper alloy gutter trim posting before getting too excited..the least invasive approach is best or it can be an expensive and frustrating cleaning journey. (There shall be fine silt in there.)

280Ejim
C Class
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri 06 Feb, 2015 8:31 am
Model you own: w123

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 280Ejim » Tue 20 Dec, 2016 10:55 pm

Thank you both very much for your replies. And yes 230ew123 I have read your posts with interest. And fear. My car is original White, and has been covered a lot of it's life I'd say. When I removed the Chrome Grilles at the base of the windscreen, inside was not very dirty, mostly like new. I just washed it down with a bit of car wash, and rinsed it. I think that White as a colour seems to hold up pretty well. Certainly compared to the Metallics. I've poured water down the hole under the passenger side Wiper. It runs straight out, so I'll probably leave that Plenum panel where it is, and just make sure that the Drain hole is always clear.
However, I'm still interested in removing the Front Gutter piece beside the Windscreen. My question is, if I remove the 3 screws each side, is it possible to safely remove that piece held on by the 3 screws, and if so, does it make it easier to wash down this area to remove silt etc ? Having read of your experience, this is as far as I'd go, if it's worth doing. Thanks a lot for your help. jim

230ew123
Adenauer
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed 19 Oct, 2016 11:34 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: eaglemont + cranbourne sth

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 230ew123 » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 12:15 am

You are sounding very brave buddy!

The biggest lesson I have learned from working on the benz for the last of a whole 3-4 months very off and on (not long(I have worked mostly on bush cars which don't need gucci)) is that the mechanical stuff is under the hood, not visible and the parts are not too difficult to get (the consumables that is. But the exterior trims are for all to see, you stuff up and it is plain as day. Due to the near perfect engineering and finish, an old merc is a head turner to say the least, it makes folks smile which is kind of nice..an era of some integrity. The external trims, rubbers are usually difficult to get, very expensive and or no longer made.

I kind of like the alloy trim with it's black vinyl dressing, bit like a satin trim on the lapels of a tux. But no longer made (still possible to get, for now, but at price..). The design of the trims was not intended to be fiddled with, obviously (in my hind sight, unlike some other simple old cars I have worked on). Gosh I have read some stories of very experienced panel beaters humbled by merc..I can see why.

The whole time I tried getting it back on, I cursed the design, it is aimed at folks who don't mind spending cash! I wished they designed it to be cleaned easily. The design has been improved, now, cars don't have drip gutter trims, streamlines production, one less thing, cheaper and less romantic. (I believe there is a difference between the 'romantic' and the 'classic' mind set..sorry, waffling here)

Anyway, if you do decide to do it (take note that there is very little photographic images of the process, which kind of says a lot ((if it was easy, there would be lots of it, especially the finished result(((I think 3 million w123's were made..anyone?)))

Approach it like a surgeon, very careful and gentle. Yes it all comes apart, but as usual, getting it back on as factory is very, very hard. If anyone has done it, I would love to see pictures of the process and final result.

The front piece after the screws are removed comprises of three pieces. A rubber piece which sits bellow the front alloy ( it has a chrome trim pressed on to it) and the fatter vinyl that sits on this ( I suspect it had some glue tacks). It has a sock at the bottom of the vinyl and a little tube at the top which can slide up and down the chrome piece which can be snapped on or off the alloy with it's spring tension (the chrome piece is delicate and difficult to snap back when re-installing the fatter black vinyl piece).

There is fine silt below the rubber for sure, but between the fatter vinyl and alloy/chrome piece it is clean as it is pretty well sealed (same goes for the rest of the alloy, ultimate seal, leave it (wish I did)).

The part of the front I regret removing is the fatter vinyl piece as I have had to hold the tension by drilling a little hole through the chrome and alloy and fixing with a tiny screw for now, covered with black silicone, visible from 1 meter. I still intend to make it less visible ( sometimes I find I have to recover and re-energise psychologically, do other stuff).

In hind sight, I would have left it on, perhaps lift it a screwdriver height (front only) to clean, warm soapy,brushes, water blast, air compressor and a non sticky anti rust (don't use fish oil, everything sticks to it).

Having said all that, nothing beats removal and cleaning, if it is clean you want. But beware!

I guess you could buy replacement parts, but for example, the long black vinyl cover trim in Oz is $170 + gst + ship, so the the whole top side trims for one side would probably add up to over $1k I could imagine, let alone the time spent figuring it out..and try not to damage your paint whilst doing it! Hah!

If it was damaged, scarred, faded, but still factory installed, I would find some really good paint that sticks to vinyl..

I guess it all depends upon the intentions of keeping an old merc, is it for exhibition (full on$$$!), happy to take out on the road and show off a little, or just to get from a to b.
I am under the impression that very few get the money and time they put into an old car back in financial return. I saw some ancient car restored to factory on the news the other day, rare as hens teeth, sold for a million bucks. But when you considered the time and money spent, a million is not all that much anymore. I think real estate in Oz would be a better way to go if it is about the money..but change is the one constant..

I too am happy I don't have the metallic paint, I have the signalrot which has really grown on me, the merc colours of the early 80's really capture an era of auto colour. I have only just begun an interest in nail polish at the chemists!

User avatar
Tony From West Oz
OZBENZ moderator
Posts: 3174
Joined: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 10:04 pm
Model you own: w202
Location: Bedfordale WA

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by Tony From West Oz » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 1:13 am

Is that so that your finger nails match the paintwork?
Lovely colour. Try some matching lippy LOL
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

230ew123
Adenauer
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed 19 Oct, 2016 11:34 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: eaglemont + cranbourne sth

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 230ew123 » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:57 am

My wife says she wouldn't use that colour unfortunately. But the acetone free nail polish remover is good stuff for over spray and cleaner on some places.
lipstick seems much more comprehensive in colour range, which is a shame, can't understand how they like eating that stuff.
but another female buddy dressed all red to match going for a drive, very touching!

just need to find a good black for the quiet spots and my gothic look..

230ew123
Adenauer
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed 19 Oct, 2016 11:34 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: eaglemont + cranbourne sth

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 230ew123 » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 11:23 am

Oh and as far as a non sticky anti rust goop, I believe tectyl 506 rust prevent is the go. Has anyone used this? Is it sticky?

(the nail polish is for little stone chips and scratches, screwdriver marks etc

230ew123
Adenauer
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed 19 Oct, 2016 11:34 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: eaglemont + cranbourne sth

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 230ew123 » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 5:27 pm

just read the label on tectyl 506..do not use on paint work, so what should be used??anyone

280Ejim
C Class
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri 06 Feb, 2015 8:31 am
Model you own: w123

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 280Ejim » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 6:40 pm

Thanks 230ew123 for all your posts on this subject. In spite of pretty thorough searching I couldn't find any other help. I think I'll stop where I am at the moment, and leave well alone. Find something else. As far as a corrosion protection product, in the past, restoration workshops I have known used a type of waxoyl liquid. I still have an amount in a large can. But it does remain sticky, so attracts dust etc. There is another product called Boeshield T9, produced by Boeing, which is used for protection and lubrication. It is wax based and dries non sticky. Apparently it's what Boeing use in their aircraft. Do a search if you're interested and there are lots of reviews worth reading. I think I'll get some in and give it a go. Thanks for all your help. jim

230ew123
Adenauer
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed 19 Oct, 2016 11:34 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: eaglemont + cranbourne sth

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 230ew123 » Wed 21 Dec, 2016 10:07 pm

boeshield looks good, geez bicycles are going gucci too..

I use to ride a malvern star, abused it and cycled for over 20 years without gucci..

User avatar
Bartman4800
300 SLR
Posts: 1818
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2008 12:10 am
Model you own: w111
Location: Perth WA

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by Bartman4800 » Thu 22 Dec, 2016 7:36 pm

Inside the sills, nothing surpasses Mike Sanders Schutzfett.
http://mike.british-cars.de/english.htm

Basically grease you inject hot into your sills and other cavities
I have a 5 liter bucket at home together with the application gun, and I converted a chip fryer into the grease heating pan.

Is it nice and clean? Nope!

Does it work? Hell yeah :laughing6:

Only problem could be that it gets a bit runny on a very hot day.


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

230ew123
Adenauer
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed 19 Oct, 2016 11:34 pm
Model you own: w123
Location: eaglemont + cranbourne sth

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by 230ew123 » Sat 24 Dec, 2016 11:02 am

Bartman4800 wrote:Inside the sills, nothing surpasses Mike Sanders Schutzfett.
http://mike.british-cars.de/english.htm

Basically grease you inject hot into your sills and other cavities
I have a 5 liter bucket at home together with the application gun, and I converted a chip fryer into the grease heating pan.

Is it nice and clean? Nope!

Does it work? Hell yeah :laughing6:

Only problem could be that it gets a bit runny on a very hot day.


Bart
Not nice and clean, do you mean the process? I could imagine it makes a mess in the garage, but the car would be happy.

User avatar
Bartman4800
300 SLR
Posts: 1818
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2008 12:10 am
Model you own: w111
Location: Perth WA

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 27 Dec, 2016 4:19 pm

Yes, that is what I meant.

And the occasional drip of grease from the drain holes, on very hot days.


Bart
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

W123fan
A Class
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun 12 Nov, 2017 2:13 pm

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by W123fan » Tue 14 Nov, 2017 6:32 am

Bartman4800 wrote:
Thu 22 Dec, 2016 7:36 pm
Inside the sills, nothing surpasses Mike Sanders Schutzfett.
http://mike.british-cars.de/english.htm

Basically grease you inject hot into your sills and other cavities
I have a 5 liter bucket at home together with the application gun, and I converted a chip fryer into the grease heating pan.

Is it nice and clean? Nope!

Does it work? Hell yeah :laughing6:

Only problem could be that it gets a bit runny on a very hot day.


Bart
Sounds great. The link though didn't work. Are they any retailers in Australia?
Previously owned

2014 Mercedes-Benz A45 AMG Mountain Gray

User avatar
Bartman4800
300 SLR
Posts: 1818
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2008 12:10 am
Model you own: w111
Location: Perth WA

Re: Cleaning/Rust prevention advice needed

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 14 Nov, 2017 10:26 am

1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

Post Reply

Return to “W123”