W201 brake upgrade

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190e sr20det
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 19 Apr, 2016 6:23 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Bundaberg QLD

W201 brake upgrade

Post by 190e sr20det » Sun 15 May, 2016 1:32 pm

My 1992 w201 requires a brake upgrade,have looked at a few forums & frankly the info I have found is confusing the issue.w124 will fit,won't fit,needs 3mm shims,grind edge off bottom ball joint WTF,have already gone to considerable trouble not to cut/grind any metal on this car.has solid front rotors ATM,already running 17x7 rims with 215 45 17 pirelli tyres & no lock to lock rub. Anyway I am looking for accurate information from those in the know on what the options are,pricing, performance, availability, ease of conversion. Please & Thank you :read2:

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AMG
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Posts: 5748
Joined: Thu 01 Jan, 1970 11:00 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Region: New South Wales
Location: Dark side of the Moon
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Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by AMG » Sun 15 May, 2016 9:41 pm

what is your chassis #

You could need as little as a set of vented front rotors & matching callipers, to a full-on replacement of lower control arm, steering knuckle, hub, rotor, calliper brake hose, master cylinder & booster.

It also depends on what your intended application is.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

190e sr20det
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 19 Apr, 2016 6:23 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Bundaberg QLD

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by 190e sr20det » Mon 16 May, 2016 10:17 am

It's a daily driver running approx 240rwhp,,just after more stopping power

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AMG
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Posts: 5748
Joined: Thu 01 Jan, 1970 11:00 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Region: New South Wales
Location: Dark side of the Moon
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Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by AMG » Mon 16 May, 2016 5:53 pm

190e sr20det wrote:It's a daily driver running approx 240rwhp,,just after more stopping power
Which really means stuff-all without a chassis #

it's on the radiator support panel to the left of the catch. Post it so we know what chassis spec we're dealing with.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

190e sr20det
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 19 Apr, 2016 6:23 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Bundaberg QLD

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by 190e sr20det » Tue 17 May, 2016 8:20 pm

WDB 20101826036696.new to mb so translation would also be appreciated. Thank you

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AMG
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Posts: 5748
Joined: Thu 01 Jan, 1970 11:00 am
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Region: New South Wales
Location: Dark side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by AMG » Mon 30 May, 2016 2:16 pm

OK
I'd actually typed a long-winded reply a couple of weeks ago, but i screwed up posting it and actually wiped the session out.

So let me try and sum it up in about 3 sections.

You have several options.
1. Huge $$$$ R170 SLK amg upgrade (SLK55) which ads about 10.5KG of additional rotor mass to each corner (unsprung weight) not including callipers. You need the late R129 angled balljoint LCA for that one. Its not straightforward (fiddly), and arguably a waste of money and time. Same goes for ML callipers.

2. R129 500SL (aka 500E) Brembo's 334mm rotors and LCA's. You need a donor R129 500SL for this. LCA's Spindle, Hubs rotors, callipers, master cyl and booster. complete rear hub assy, rotor and calliper. price here will still be $$$$. for parts that will require overhaul.

3. 24v W124 front & rear brakes. - same as above, but from a w124 24v sedan or coupe. it's the best option for price.

4. a DIY mix N match. Only adviseable if you have access to an EPC, a good knowledge of MB models & interchangeable parts. This is where you got your 'I need 1.25mm shims or 3mm shims or this hub and this rotor and this calliper and all it's going to do is cause issues if you do not know exactly what you are doing.


Now, the bad news.

You have a 201018 - which is essentially a 180e / 190e 1.8 It has the lowest spec front end of all 201's. It has smaller wheel bearings, and likely no ABS on your model.

The most cost effective and safe way to upgrade your brakes is to go with option 3 above. It will be way more than enough, and use OE pads. do not use some aftermarket crap equivalent. The ATE pads are the correct compound and will not fade. I have never been able to make them fade on either the 124 coupe or the cosworth, and I don't drive sedately.

Along with the replacement LCA's I'd strongly advise upgrading the LCA bushes to urethane ones. - Ake - also known as hedhehog motorsport, sells them. They are tested and proven and of a high quality. Steering response is also sharpened noticeably as a direct result of useing these. don't go for the stupid hard race version, 75 or 83 hardness is more than enough for a street application.


Differences:

The 201 front spindle has a smaller outside wheelbearing than the 124 or 129. This is particularly important when upgrading the brakes, as more load is placed on the spindle. If you increase the rotor mass, you compound the issue, so it's a mandatory swap if you upgrade.

Secondly, there is a small difference in the hub offset. consequently it is why you want the whole front suspension assembly, and not just the callipers.

If you just get the callipers, you will most likely find yourself in spacer land, or shaving material off one pad in order to get the required clearance. There are differences in the callipers, depending on year and model of the vehicle they were fitted to, another reason to get the whole assembly. for example, using late E320 w124 fronts on a standard 201 hub, will mean you need to modify for clearance, usually on the inside pad, or a spacer.
The follow on, is that the inside of the rotor will have a reduced clearance to the balljoint, which requires a small amount of material to then be removed from the outside radius of the LCA at the balljoint, in order to provide adequate clearance for the rotor, particularly under cornering load.

I have not taken into account the differences in parts for bearings etc, as it's well and truly outside the scope of work.

If you want to do it correctly, the most cost effective and straightforward way, is to either get complete hub assemblies, incl. spindle/stubaxle/wheel carrier (which ever you prefer to call it) from the front and rear of either an R129 300SL or w124 24v ( both M104 engines) or the bigger R129 500SL v8. You will need the master cyl & booster, to complete the upgrade, to ensure correct proportioning and pedal feel as well as adequate vacuum assist.

The cheapest way to do it is to find a donor vehicle, then rebuild the assemblies, then swap them out wholesale on your 201. Then you have a brand new package.

It also affords you time to consider swapping out the dampers and maybe an upgrade to the suspension spec - coils swaybars, rear suspension linkages.... list goes on, costs go up.... where do you stop?......it goes on and on and on....
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

190e sr20det
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 19 Apr, 2016 6:23 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Bundaberg QLD

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by 190e sr20det » Mon 31 Oct, 2016 4:42 pm

Thankyou for comprehensive info,have obtained 400e rotors,calipers & dust shields.am now on the hunt for 124 lca & spindles so a response from any forum members with these parts would be appreciated.

kiqnkf
C Class
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 9:29 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: S.E. Suburbs, Victoria.

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by kiqnkf » Sat 31 Dec, 2016 4:39 pm

Where do you live? ... And fill out the bloody form so we all know when you ask for help....

190e sr20det
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 19 Apr, 2016 6:23 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Bundaberg QLD

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by 190e sr20det » Mon 09 Jan, 2017 6:23 pm

I am in qld,bundaberg area

kiqnkf
C Class
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 9:29 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: S.E. Suburbs, Victoria.

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by kiqnkf » Mon 09 Jan, 2017 7:53 pm

Bugger...

We have a heap of these laying around in pickapart wreckers, but it's a long way to come to save $100ish...

190e sr20det
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue 19 Apr, 2016 6:23 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Bundaberg QLD

Re: W201 brake upgrade

Post by 190e sr20det » Thu 16 Feb, 2017 10:25 pm

Is that brisbane or gracemere,i pass the gracemere one regularly as i work in blackwater

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