Heavy/hard modded 201's

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xrqtr
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Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by xrqtr » Sun 27 Dec, 2015 1:02 am

Hey folks, kinda new here and just wanted to see/know what others have done to their 201's. I've only had mine for a couple of months but have some plans re: wheels, engine, interior and the like but wanted to see what others have done or even know peoples thoughts on what would make a hard tuned (for want of a better term) 201.

Not sure about peoples thoughts but my plans are to go with a 19" wheel similar to the current E63, coilovers, black leather interior (currently fawn fabric) with aftermarket front seats and probably a V6 mostly because they are getting cheaper and would sit further back in the body helping handling somewhat over a straight 6 sitting on the rad support :think:

Eventually I'd like to go with a Hedgehog Evo 1 kit but have found for now a genuine Zender front and rear bar (plastic not f/glass), the rear being almost identical to an Evo2 rear bar, although I may keep my current front bar which is the AMG style with the spotlights.

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AndrewsSL/SEL
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by AndrewsSL/SEL » Sun 03 Jan, 2016 10:56 am

I've got 18x8 AMG copies on my 190E 2.6 and I recommend you go 18 as a maximum.

Personally if I didn't have the w124 4pot front caliper brake upgrade I'd fit a set of 16 or 17 inch wheels.

Where are you located?

There may be an Ozbenz member in the area with a w201 that may be able to catch up to give you some ideas.
Andrew

86 Diamond Blue 420SEL [That is being parted out and stripped for spares]
87 Red 190E 2.6 [Cossie Bodykit, R129SL 4pots/rotors, Bilstein/H&R suspension=GOKART]
87 White 300SL R107 Roadster [Which has sadly become a bit of a garage queen]
89 Nautical Blue 420SEL [The new Limo thats now the wife and sons daily driver with hot old Lorinser LO rims]
13 White Ford XR6 1 ton ute[The work ute]

xrqtr
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Model you own: w201

Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by xrqtr » Sat 09 Jan, 2016 8:06 pm

Living in the North at the moment, Mickleham, just wondering why you would recommend the smaller diameter, is it for fitment or comfort?? Comfort isn't a priority as it will end up with Koni coil overs at some stage also so I can play around with heights a little easier, besides to be honest I prefer a firmer ride overall.

I'm going in this week, if I can get it going again now LOL, to trial fit them as the rears are 19x9.5, the tyres will be around a 245 so slightly stretched, but no not going for a stretched 'stanced' :naughty: look LOL.

kiqnkf
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by kiqnkf » Sat 09 Jan, 2016 10:32 pm

19 x 9.5??? I am SCEPTICAL, but excited!!! W201's are super sensitive to rim/tyre size/offset due to their radical suspension geometry. All that front caster plays havoc with hopes and dreams.

If you don't steer or go over bumps you'll be fine. Otherwise, be prepared to fit the front bumper on springs, after you rip off and run over the original one, that is.

Otherwise, can't WAIT to see it!!

xrqtr
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by xrqtr » Sun 10 Jan, 2016 9:17 pm

Ye 9.5 on the rear lol 8 for the front I think it was or 8.5, but pretty sure it was 19x8 on the front, but you're right will be awesome to have that size wheel to fit straight up without modifying, hopefully get the Koni's soon as well which would give a little more clearance regarding springs.

kiqnkf
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by kiqnkf » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:05 pm

In my experience, it is the inner guard and the bumper bar that suffers on steering and suspension movement.

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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by AMG » Tue 12 Jan, 2016 8:54 am

I'm really over offering comment on poorly researched / executed mods. But I guess some need to learn the hard way?? :think: :whistle:

If you want 19's buy Ake's evo 2 kit. the evo 1 kit will not have enough width to accommodate the full articulation of a 19" rim, without inner wheel tub modifications (i.e. you need an evo 2 inner tub sheetmetal for lock to lock clearance, not the w124 bash & crash method AMG used (hint - 201 wheel tubs are smaller).

You haven't mentioned wheel offset - absolutely critical. :wall:

You havent mentioned any proposed suspension changes :book: Would also suggest this be planned before purchasing wheels.

You have mentioned 'stance' in a negative context, yet you are fitting 19's with stretched tyres??? That statement is slightly hypocritical I would propose. :argue:

After you try and fit a 245 section in the rear, you will most likely find you need new tubs, after you rip the sidewalls on the sheetmetal. Oh and take the plastic trim off the rear arch before it comes off while you're driving, as the tyre will simply rip it off.

Simple tools like a measuring tape and a notebook and writing implement would be a sensible option for guidance at this stage. :read2: Look VERY carefully at the front third of your rear wheel arches, because this is where the tyre carcass will be sliced open by the sheetmetal, before it bottoms out on the upper section of the outer tub - if it can get past the rear lip.

measure twice, cut once... Because you will only get one chance at it before you f**k it up for good.

That picture of Robin Bein's that you posted of the evo 1 with the Compomotive TH1880's is a factory evo 1, with the factory sheetmetal, which is very different to your 201.
Even so, that car required significant modification to get the 18's to fit. (no they are not OZ rims, they are OZ deacals.

Good luck, will be interesting to see where this one finishes up.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift 7G-tronic Diamantweisß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

xrqtr
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by xrqtr » Sun 17 Jan, 2016 2:59 pm

As I mentioned earlier, if you'd read it, the wheels will be trial fitted first, the guys where I get my wheels and tyres from know most offsets off by heart, he actually knew the 201's offsets and is pretty sure they should fit ok. As I also mentioned the tyres will be slightly stretched not stretched as the 9.5 rear should fit under the arch this way easier, I said I'm not trying to go for a 'stanced' look as that's not the look I'm after so if the wheels are too wide then they will be changed for narrower wheels.

I'm after peoples thoughts and help here that have gone with taller and wider wheels, not peoples opinions of 'why it's not right'.

kiqnkf
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by kiqnkf » Sun 17 Jan, 2016 8:41 pm

When is it happening?

xrqtr
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by xrqtr » Mon 18 Jan, 2016 5:20 pm

kiqnkf wrote:When is it happening?

LOL soon as I get the bloody thing running again, currently washing out the cylinders.

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vanir
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by vanir » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 4:12 pm

Main problem is the front and it's the front to back distance of the wheel arch. It's not big enough for any width increase with a factory outside diameter, or else inside tyre hits at bumper/guard join, made much worse if lowered at all, because then anything wider than 205 undersize with perfect offset also hits the inner guard.
With barely slight lowering, about sportline stance, with a little clearance between top of tyre to guard lip, the widest part of the outside diameter is at least kept well below the guard/bumper join, but unless you've got really solid suspension it'll still cut right into the the face of the tyre at 215/45x17 ET42 best offset and stock outside diameter. It's as wide as I could get the front with 3 wheel attempts and tyre combinations, and it still rubs at lock, but doesn't so long as you don't full lock. I could cut the lock rub by undersizing to 40 series but then I'd have to rake the front and I don't want to turn a good looking car into cop bait and they're already damn low in the undercarriage at even stock ride height. I do country driving, I need some clearance as well as handling.

When I had it quite lowered a while ago I had to have ET49 in 7" max just to get 205 under the front and even then it hit the inner guard. With it at roughly sportline stance, 215 on the ET42 7.5" is good, but with above mentioned considerations. Front really needs to be undersize on the outside diameter or don't lower the car very much at all, keep plenty of vertical clearance. Stock outside diameter just plain gets too close to that guard/bumper join, the stock diameter is wider than the wheel arch itself at the front, that's the problem, that's why you can't get big rubber at the front without serious work as people have mentioned above. You have to keep the outside rim/tyre facing well inside the guard/arch. You can't just pop deep dish and fat rubber on it like an old Ford. Believe me, I tried. And stock inner guard prevents anything wider than 205 at stock outside diameter unless you undersize, even if perfect wheel offset, particularly if lowered.

At the back, 235 with stock outside diameter is no problem at all. No speedo error, looks fat. Could get away with 245. After that I'm guessing again, serious modification.

And for any of this, you need really solid suspension. Anything wider than 195 rubs all over the place if squishy and lowered even slightly. AMG did a fair bit just to get 215 all round. Sportline is harder sprung just to handle 205. Evos aren't even the same car.
W201.029 w/ M103.983
22/62 cam w/11mm lift
63mm exhaust
215 and 235 kumho tyres.

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vanir
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by vanir » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 4:22 pm

Here's the stance/tyres currently on mine. Rims are 17x7.5 ET42, took a few tries to get the right size/offset and this is good. Definitely no wider at the front. Rear could get away with more width on the rim so long as you kept the offset relationship the same.
Tyres are 215/45 and 235/40, which is stock outside diameter so no speedo error. The front needs to be undersize at this width, or this is as low as it can go without hitting the bumper/guard join. And either way, still hits it at lock. 205 and undersize is as wide as you can go without modification if you want full lock.
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W201.029 w/ M103.983
22/62 cam w/11mm lift
63mm exhaust
215 and 235 kumho tyres.

kiqnkf
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Location: S.E. Suburbs, Victoria.

Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by kiqnkf » Thu 21 Jan, 2016 9:27 pm

vanir,

I was in TTF Dandenong the other day looking at wheels.... I stood there long and hard looking at a set of those OX wheels. mmmmmmmm yum.... Look mental on my charcoal 3.2 twincam 190e....

I told the sales assistant you had them, and they looked mad on a 190..... Looking like keeping the 15" AMG 5 spokes and going a set of Hankook Ventus RS-3's for $480 instead.

I wanted Michelin Pilot Super Sports, they don't come in anything close to 15", so guess I will put them on the LS1 commodore when she needs new dancin' shoes... I wont be driving THE ANIMAL much, having only 90 days per year, so I figure I should get 2-ish years outta the RS-3's.

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vanir
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by vanir » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 2:55 pm

Have you seen the 3-piece hammers in 17x7.5 ET42?
They're fricken stunning. Looks like racetrack AMG pacecar. Remember those Baby Hammers in the Euro tracks as the pace car in 92 I think it was? Beasty, cat delete spec they're good for 5.8 seconds 0-100 sprint and wind out to 260!

I'll be after the 3-piece hammers when the other work is done, they're like 3500 new.

Oh and hey man, my race prepped 103 goes in the car early February. Once run in (a couple of weeks for some long range weekend cruises and an oil change), we should get together somewhere appropriate and give a run with the 230-250hp M103 (target, have to wait and see the result), against the M104 3.2. Should get me in low range but the plan was to severely outpower one in upper range. I'd like to see if that was achieved.
W201.029 w/ M103.983
22/62 cam w/11mm lift
63mm exhaust
215 and 235 kumho tyres.

kiqnkf
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Posts: 46
Joined: Tue 22 Feb, 2011 9:29 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: S.E. Suburbs, Victoria.

Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by kiqnkf » Sat 23 Jan, 2016 5:52 pm

You're on J!

Greycar makes 181hp at the wheels, rich with retarded timing and engine oil (somehow???) leaking into the intake manifold and into cylinders 5 and 6. My mate reckons it should beat an early LS1 commodore as it is.

I am hoping to fix it and re-dyno/WOT street tune. Looks like the fix has got pepper on it now though... I won't lose to you a second time ;)

xrqtr
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by xrqtr » Thu 28 Jan, 2016 8:48 pm

Looks like he's in Qld but are they on here and if so why are they so quiet LOL?????


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_S6NHYWuLQ

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AndrewsSL/SEL
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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by AndrewsSL/SEL » Thu 17 Mar, 2016 8:30 am

If you want to read about the epic saga with the monster 190E Clayton was building then read this.... viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8455
Andrew

86 Diamond Blue 420SEL [That is being parted out and stripped for spares]
87 Red 190E 2.6 [Cossie Bodykit, R129SL 4pots/rotors, Bilstein/H&R suspension=GOKART]
87 White 300SL R107 Roadster [Which has sadly become a bit of a garage queen]
89 Nautical Blue 420SEL [The new Limo thats now the wife and sons daily driver with hot old Lorinser LO rims]
13 White Ford XR6 1 ton ute[The work ute]

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Re: Heavy/hard modded 201's

Post by AMG » Thu 17 Mar, 2016 8:46 pm

AndrewsSL/SEL wrote:If you want to read about the epic saga with the monster 190E Clayton was building then read this.... viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8455
Hehe. Nice one fella ;)
Some bits from that car ended up in the Red 2.6 !

The other half of Claytons car (rear end) ended up in Niccolo's 2j 190e, the getrag 6 speed, billet strut tops and some other bits are in Gretel. The original sliced m104 inlet manifold I gave to Nic a couple of years ago. The c32 brakes, rear bar, brace and a huge bunch of other bits ended up in my garage. Some bits of nickel plated stuff found their way into Hermann. Not sure where the SL600 brake set went - I think to West Oz... Engine sold, GC setup sold as well. It was a sad thing to see, but some of us are priveleged to own a piece of it's brief history.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift 7G-tronic Diamantweisß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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