Bagged W116

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MERCAR
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Bagged W116

Post by MERCAR » Sat 15 Feb, 2014 10:35 am

I am about to airbag my project custom topless W116. Primarily a show car but may do a wedding or two. Any advice from those who have already done this would be much appreciated.
TIA.
Dave.
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W116 350 SE Custom Convertible
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GNGSTA
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by GNGSTA » Mon 17 Feb, 2014 11:22 pm

I am totally into this, I can't wait to see her finished.
1969 W108 280S - parts/future project, too original to cut up - Sold 28/8/13
1971 W109 300SEL 3.5 - newest purchase, current project, keeper
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 - project on back burner - Sold 30/7/14
1996 W210 E320 Elegance - Daily driver
2003 VW B5.5 Passat 1.8T - wifemobile - Sold/Traded in without me knowing while on the way to work
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oliveoyl
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by oliveoyl » Tue 18 Feb, 2014 8:26 pm

Love it dave.
1977 280SE W116 - Magic Lounge Cruiser
1999 Jaaaag XJR
2004 Toyota Prado - The Boss Lady's Ride (can't afford a GL yet)
2004 Toyota Supra - The 600hp Cop Magnet

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kimrh
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by kimrh » Sat 08 Nov, 2014 10:00 am

Any more pics on progress?
Love it
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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beevina
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by beevina » Tue 11 Nov, 2014 5:42 pm

a vintage enginee
W126 1984 280SE Manual
Mercedes - Benz W126 built like a tank and safe as a house.

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DieselJames
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by DieselJames » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:29 pm

Wow! Looks like a lot of work has gone into your Merc, well done.

I've always been curious what mods/work is required for an airbag suspension set-up (esp DIY), it'd be great if you'd post pics & stories of your progress.

Looking forward to seeing it bounce!
1976 300D (The 'parts car' that I can't part out)
1978 300D ('Walden the avocado' - the first)
1983 300TD ('Wilma the blue whale' - turbocharged! )
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DieselJames
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by DieselJames » Thu 18 Dec, 2014 9:29 pm

Wow! Looks like a lot of work has gone into your Merc, well done.

I've always been curious what mods/work is required for an airbag suspension set-up (esp DIY), it'd be great if you'd post pics & stories of your progress.

Looking forward to seeing it bounce!
1976 300D (The 'parts car' that I can't part out)
1978 300D ('Walden the avocado' - the first)
1983 300TD ('Wilma the blue whale' - turbocharged! )
1984 300D (Sold!)

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SELamd
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by SELamd » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 12:08 am

11076073_984670031551456_353987858_n.jpg
i just finished bagging my w126 500sel, uses identical suspension set up, front is easy just put a ss6 or re6 slam air bag where the spring use to be, for the rear it depends how confident you are i built whole new shock towers back up into the boot to relocate the strut and allow an airbag to fit in the rear spring cradle let me know if you want some more pictures of what i did

second photo will give you an idea how to build the new rear shock towers, i used izuzu 4x4 shocks just because they where cheep from a wreckers then made the towers to suit, very big job either way
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Mercmad
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by Mercmad » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 9:12 pm

you bolted the shock through the anti squat link?

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kimrh
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by kimrh » Thu 19 Mar, 2015 11:24 pm

You might want to get in contact with this guy who has done this properly before on his W126 SEC and is all over the best set-up to ensure it still handles well (even race-track tested this kit on an SE)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... -quot-W126
It also contains some very good pics
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87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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SELamd
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by SELamd » Sun 22 Mar, 2015 12:51 am

well the shock doesn't just bolt into the link had to machine up a spindle for it all to fit properly and have the correct clearance,, like i said this was to allow me to use a slam air bag and not a aero sport bag with the whole in the middle, which are a far less quality bag for ride height, as that bottom link of the anti squat does not move it provides the perfect mounting point for the new shocks and allows to run pretty much any rear rear shock you want, yes it work who G60 did it but there is nearly no clearance between the strut and the bag and it extremely limits how much travel you have,

btw this was not just a cut and fit job im a 4th year mechanical engineer, spring rates where calculated and compared with shock absorber specs to ensure proper dampening effects as well as load places on the whole system in both static and dynamic conditions, like i said relocating the shocks is not for the faint hearted that aren't 100%committed and back there skills, but it is a far far better set up that the poorly performing bags that accommodate a strut through there center (if you can even get them to clear each other, they require much more pressure to lift resulting in a stiff bouncy ride in the rear,been there done that)however my front set up is basically 100% the same as G60s on the vw vortex forum and is well worth a read to get you started

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Mercmad
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by Mercmad » Sun 22 Mar, 2015 9:11 am

So, the link will provide the same leverage as the position of the original shocks were at? .This leverage position, in relation to the axle center line, determines whether or not the shock is compressing and extending at the same rate as it was intended on the japanese vehicle . Dampening out excessive rebound is actually what they do. I guess you will also fit new shocks of the same type and you have used those old ones to mock it up?. i'm not a fan of the slammed look,never fully understanding the point of it all in todays context. As a kid, we would lower cars to make them corner better .
The Mercedes air bags use a cone inside which varies the air pressure, more movement increases the air pressure as the bag is pushed down onto the cone so the ride is very smooth on normal road surfaces. So,as the bag is compressed more,the air pressure within the bag rises to counteract the lower arms upward movement . So,on the roughest surface the ride feel is still very smooth . Trucks ,busses and railway carriages use the same cone idea .( I was considering using Hendrickson truck suspension valves to replace the Bosch units on my car if they wore out again) .
Mercedes also understood that with air suspension,being that it is infinitely variable unlike steel springs, that if you brake hard,the front of the car will drop as the momentum forces the cars mass onto the front axle. On the W112 they devised a floating caliper which counter acts the rear of the car rising under braking. That is what the anti squat links are for ,as they use the same principle as that early anti dive(or"brake hold down " ) linkage.
Also, the main control valve of the Bosch system feeds air to the rear at full pressure ,while restricting the front pressure . That is what appears to be lacking in most aftermarket systems I have seen. Unless this has been designed into systems today. The rear set has full airpressure but the amount supplied to the bags is measured by the height control valve ( only one on the rear ) so the ride is never hard,but ride height is constant.

V8Finny
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by V8Finny » Sun 22 Mar, 2015 9:51 pm

So........in essence, you're saying that by choosing this mounting location, his aftermarket airbag installation will only work as well as the thousands of other non-Mercedes airbag installations, while not working as well under heavy braking as the Mercedes system, so he should ring the scrappers to crush his car?

I just don't quite understand what constructive information you are trying to add.
Are you suggesting a better mounting point?

I didn't read the poster's post as asking for any advice, and I'm not sure that you're actually offering any advice, so what is the point?

I apologise if its only me confused by this........
6.3 Litres of rusty, crusty, oily power!

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68 W109 300SEL 6.3 #0952 - crushed by City of Monash
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SELamd
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by SELamd » Mon 23 Mar, 2015 1:53 am

i will post some more pictures up once next week when i have time to finish the system off, might make it much more clearer how my setup functions,initial test drive felt like it was on springs at ride height (tires just tucking under guards) and any higher the increase in pressure made the car actually feel much stiffer than standard, with the strut relocation i was able to get a strut with a much longer stroke (even tho it id further out from the pivot point than the standard position i have 9" of travel compared to the standard shocks 5", by moving the sock further away from the pivot point it has also increased the "lever arm" compressing the shock it results in a much greater damping rate aka "stiffer shocks" paired with the fact the shocks im using are much stiffer than the merc ones anyway it nearly eliminates any bounce or body roll usually associated with airbags,

and yes your correct by moving the shock into the link for the anti squat it moves the strut into a position relatively close to the equivalent swing arm position of the jap car they came out of, in actual fact they are slightly further out as its the only other place to mount a full size strut tower but that extra distance is actually beneficial for stiffening up the ride on the air bags

if you think about it carefully it in no way affects the anti squat linkages and is actually using the same principle of suspension operation as the front set up with the shock outboard of the spring (or air bag in this case) from the pivot point (lower bush).

i agree that modern cars with factory air system are probably far superior to this, however for what i want out of the car and what i have learnt about suspension undertaking this has been well worth it for me personally and i don't think you can honestly DIY build a better rear air bag suspension set up in a w126, there is no room in either the front or back for any bag larger than 6" diameter(like bus or truck bags) no matter how creative you get it just physically cant work if you want full suspension travel.

like i mentioned in previous post my moving strut further back allows 2 main advantages.
1- a much larger choice of higher quality airbags are available it install that will ride better and lift more weight per psi than the aerosport ones with the internal hole for the strut to pass through as there is simply much more area for the air pressure to push against resulting in a greater force per psi (basic physics)

2- the new shock location is set up correctly will allow for much more suspension travel, provides a greater leaver arm (shocks provides more resistance aka dampening effect) helping to eliminate body roll and very much smooths the overall ride out also allows to fit any shock you want can go to some really nice shocks with an external reservoir or larger bore monotube gas shocks.

thats just my opinion and experience with my set up anyway i have done it and know it works, some people may not also like the idea that i ditched the K-jet system when i rebuilt the m117 and insted went to a megasquirt EFI running closed loop wideband but it runs much better than the originally K-jet, is way more tunable and much better on fuel, not original, not mercedes but modern technology that simply wasn't there back in the 80s, same idea goes with the modern air bags that don't balloon out and would be way more advanced and better designed than set of 40+ year old merc airbags from the w112.

anyway if you would like some more info on my airbag set up let me know and im more than willing to share some more detailed photos now its finished

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Mercmad
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by Mercmad » Mon 23 Mar, 2015 10:12 pm

thamks, you have added a bit to what I have known for a while. :read2: and as usual I'm always interest to see what others are doing in terms of modifications.
I was never impressed with the early bags and it seems the firestone etc are still selling the same damn things they had in the 1980's.
Didn't your 500 have a rear anti roll bar? . The 6.3's came with anti roll bars on the rear because as you say,the air suspension is a bit too compliant and the car would understeer without it. If it has a roll bar,you could stiffen it by doubling it up.
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I can see that the shock wont worry the anti squat link.
BTW, the W126 was offered with a full hydro suspension ,no steel springs. :read2: a couple of mates in the UK have used W126 rear ends in their W111 and W108's. The pivot point point for the springs is different to the torque arm pivot point so the spring rates were all wrong,being too soft with W126 springs and too hard with W111 and W108 springs.
I dont have the pics now, but another mate used merc Airride bags on the rear of his W111 coupe with a W124 diff and merc W109 air bags in front. This gives him quite a huge difference in ride and park heights,but the real clincher is the AMG engine he used ,with it's Yaw control... built in stability.
Cheers!.

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SELamd
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by SELamd » Mon 30 Mar, 2015 5:55 pm

yes as far as i know all the w126 came with anti roll bars, im yet to see a w126 that runs no springs at all even with the hydraulic suspension they still run a steel spring and the shock simply acts as a helper to rise the height, i think it may have been the w116 6.9 ran a completely springless set up.

i plan to upgrade the anti roll bar to overcome the less stiff air bags and avoid excessive body roll any yess double sway bars is a common modification when aftermarket/upgrade parts are not available. anyway here are some more completed photos you can see the roll bar attached (just) right in the very top right corner of the second photo
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MERCAR
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by MERCAR » Sat 29 Aug, 2015 2:08 am

So very sorry for the long delay in posts but my wife passed away suddenly around a year ago and my enthusiasm to continue with the project faded. My wife loved this car and wanted to see it finished so I did eventually get back into it. Won a trophy at it's second show for best custom. Still have to bag it. Fully registered now and will try to complete it this summer.
BTW Can anybody help me out with a 350 D-Jet fuel pump? mines leaking.
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W116 350 SE Custom Convertible
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KimB
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by KimB » Sat 29 Aug, 2015 12:45 pm

Hi Dave,

Fantastic!
I'm sure your wife would be proud of the monumental effort you have put into finishing this project.
What's next on the drawing board?
Cheers
Kim
W126 86 300SE Champagne
W126 84 380SEC Signal Red

redlaser
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by redlaser » Sat 29 Aug, 2015 1:03 pm

A magnificent resto and the happy looking guys around the Culture Cafe are proof of your efforts...a memorial for your sad loss.

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T-Modell
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Re: Bagged W116

Post by T-Modell » Sun 30 Aug, 2015 10:14 pm

Hi,

I'm very sorry to hear of your loss, my condolences. I admire, that you continued the project and imho it looks great!
Thomas
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1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18/19
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
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