An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

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An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Sun 02 Apr, 2017 11:08 pm

Hi down under,

while putting the M117-V8 into the W115 of my pick-up project, it turned out, that the steering column shift absolutely has no space whatsoever. This was the original idea to adapt it to the 4-speed gearbox. BUT I wanted to absolutely keep the front seat bench. But with a front seat bench, floor shift makes no sense.

So I didn't want to give up and I had the idea to place the original shifter mechanism behind the centre console and attach a linear drive to it. So in the end an "electrical" connection between the column shift and the gearbox. What did I get?

A linear motor, a microcontroller board (in my case a KL25Z) and a few bits and pieces of electronics (5V supply, motor driver etc.). Additionally written some software. The gearstick was replaced with an M10 screw which connects to the linear motor. A 14-segment-LED-display is also attached to show the actual gear (finally in the cluster). With my 3D-printer I designed a radial holder of microswitches which should indicate the correct gear position. So here's the prototype:

Image
Image
Image

I've made a little video of it ... you see the "comfort" functions "Drive directly to P" or "Drive directly to R" and of course gear-up/gear-down. The LED shown there simulates the rear-drive-lights.


Questions or your input:
1) would that be reliable? I'm thinking of adding an additional angle sensor, in case one of the micro switches fails? Changing to proximity switches (pretty expensive and big)? Photosensors?
2) Any more ideas / tipps?

Thanks a lot ... sorry for my weird ideas :laughing6:
Thomas

P. S.: Finally I intend to put a second indicator stick on the right side ... 180 degrees turned. Contacts are included, so this will replace those blue buttons.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby cuisses » Sun 02 Apr, 2017 11:40 pm

Very impressive Thomas.

It should be about as reliable as any modern electronics are in cars. If I made it I would give it a 6 month or 5000km warranty, but as this is German-built you can probably multiply those numbers by 10.
One thing I am not so clear on. When you say:
"I had the idea to place the original shifter mechanism behind the centre console and attach a linear drive to it"

Does this mean that all of this mechanism is hidden from view somehow, or is your ute going to have a weird linear actuator beside the driver?

Also, can you get it passed by the registration people? Putting cars into gear via a "home-made" mechanism might raise a red flag with some of those guys.
Last edited by cuisses on Sun 02 Apr, 2017 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Sun 02 Apr, 2017 11:48 pm

cuisses wrote:...
One thing I am not so clear on. When you say:
"I had the idea to place the original shifter mechanism behind the centre console and attach a linear drive to it"

Does this mean that all of this mechanism is hidden from view somehow, or is your ute going to have a weird linear actuator beside the driver?


Thanks David,

it is supposed to be hidden behind the centre console (ashtray etc.); this linear motor is pretty long, but it should just fit between that console and the heater box. If not, a stepper motor could be an alternative. Here's a dummy picture at the car (on the right you can see the "original" position of the gear stick):
Image

cuisses wrote:....Also, can you get it passed by the registration people? Putting cars into gear via a "home-made" mechanism might raise a red flag with some of those guys.


I'm pretty sure, as such things were available in the 60s/70s, e. g. Rolls Royce and afaik some american cars.

Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby CraigB » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 10:21 am

I'm impressed, but its a bit out of my league! 3 across on a bench seat is always a bit difficult with the trans hump so I gather this will just mean the middle person putting feet to side. I remember my old morris oxford i put a manual floor change with front bench and changing gears involved a conversation with a middle passenger to move their leg a bit etc - usually only happened in a car packed with teenagers heading to parties or sport or something.
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby Bartman4800 » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 11:22 am

Impressive work Thomas.

The only concerns I would have:

The linear actuator is a bit slow to change from one end to the other.
If a wire breaks, do you have an "override" to shift to Park?

That way you can at least park the car.

Did you add all the interlocks, so you cannot start the car unless in "park"?


Regards, Bart
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Mon 03 Apr, 2017 5:12 pm

Bartman4800 wrote:Impressive work Thomas.

The only concerns I would have:

The linear actuator is a bit slow to change from one end to the other.
If a wire breaks, do you have an "override" to shift to Park?

That way you can at least park the car.

Did you add all the interlocks, so you cannot start the car unless in "park"?


Regards, Bart


Thanks for your input,

the "emergency-into-park" function could be easily installed, e. g. a hidden switch that just operates the linear motor to the end. The interlocks come anyway, when I do the new harness. Additionally I plan to put the electronic speed signal into the microcontroller board too, so e. g. switching to "R" is only possible if v<5km/h. Also - in addition to the gearbox - I could prevent going down to 2 unless the speed is under 100km/h.

Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 12:49 am

To be honest ... without the help of my good friend Martin (the hardware-expert on earth, http://lightartvision.com/), I wouldn't have put this circuit together ... :laughing6:

Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby eddie » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 10:25 am

this is awesome thomas, add a couple of lamborghini style paddle shift do-dads behind the steering wheel and I think you are in business!!

paddles.jpg
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 4:51 pm

eddie wrote:this is awesome thomas, add a couple of lamborghini style paddle shift do-dads behind the steering wheel and I think you are in business!!


Well, then my history license is definitely gone :laughing6:
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby eddie » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 4:59 pm

ok,ok, the Lambo ones are a little crass, what about modifying the chrome horn ring to be paddle shifters? it's not that much of a stretch?!?


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Last edited by eddie on Tue 04 Apr, 2017 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1998 W210 E240 - yawn but like a tank
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - sold it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 w111 coupe 220seb
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 5:00 pm

That's a good idea ... and when I need the horn, I just turn down the window and shout :occasion5:
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby eddie » Tue 04 Apr, 2017 5:02 pm

what do you need a horn for? you need to change gears man!
1998 W210 E240 - yawn but like a tank
1969 Fiat 124 sport coupe - sold it...bit sad but onwards and upwards
2000 Mk4 VW Golf GTi - the german's should be ashamed - SOLD, no love lost there
1965 w111 coupe 220seb
1998 BMW M3 - interim car until the coupe is back, bit of a rocket to boot
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Wed 05 Apr, 2017 5:44 pm

Hi guys,

not too many comments ... hmm, there's two possibilities: either it's not too interesting or it should work :laughing6: ... Yesterday I connected a W108 (or similar) indicator stick to it ... it works. Just have to modifiy the "windscreen wiper" switch, as it clicks in still ... should be a push button in the future (my comfort-direct-into-P-function).
Image
Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby TheMadRacoon » Wed 05 Apr, 2017 11:39 pm

Impressive, Thomas.

I didn't realise you were going to use an indicator stalk as the gear lever (did I miss this before?) Are you intending to pull up (ie per right indicator action) to move the selector in one direction, and push down (ie per left indication direction) to move the other way? And similarly utilise the wiper position switch for quick-Park select?

Could you not use the high-beam (push stalk forward) say for Reverse, and normal beam position for Drive, with the indicator (L, R) positions as a paddle shift alternative? And the wiper-on function (perhaps a later stalk with push-on-end for wiper on) being used to select Park. A later stalk might also allow you to dedicate intermittent wiper position as Low gear, and low speed wiper position as S gear position. Actually, using high-speed wipe position as D allows you to have a safety interlock of stalk-in-low beam position as a prerequisite for the microprocessor to allow selection of any of the forward gears.

You didn't elaborate, so maybe you are already doing something like this?
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Thu 06 Apr, 2017 5:03 pm

Thanks Emad,

all implemented :laughing6: ... Blinker will be gear-up/down, wiper will be Park. Flash High-beams will be "Direct-to-R" and High-Beams (to the front) will be "Direct-to-D". Pre-1985 do not have an E/S switch; so that's obsolete. But I will use the "windscreen-wiper-speed" switch on top for the "B-Switch" of the gearbox (which is just electrical in the original car too).

The basic functions work with the stick; I just have to modify the high-beam and the windscreen-wiper, so they don't click in ... have to take it apart at the weekend.

Yesterday I showed the prototype to my workshop, where Stefan (the guy who put the 6.9 in an SLC) helped me. They all declared me "crazy" :laughing6:

Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
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T-Modell
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby cuisses » Thu 06 Apr, 2017 6:35 pm

Thomas, this car is going to be totally unstealable. Even if a thief managed to start it they could never put it in gear, and every time they tried to turn left or right or switch on the wipers it would go into reverse or park.

This will be absolutely your car - nobody else on the planet will know how to drive it, unless of course they have read this thread ...
David Williams

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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Thu 06 Apr, 2017 6:37 pm

cuisses wrote:Thomas, this car is going to be totally unstealable. Even if a thief managed to start it they could never put it in gear, and every time they tried to turn left or right or switch on the wipers it would go into reverse or park.

This will be absolutely your car - nobody else on the planet will know how to drive it, unless of course they have read this thread ...


:laughing5: :laughing5: :laughing5:
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
User avatar
T-Modell
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Re: An automated Automatic? Your input appreciated ...

Postby T-Modell » Mon 17 Apr, 2017 10:49 pm

Hi guys,

prototype 2.0 is ready and runs. Upgrades? I replaced the mechanical position switches with optocouplers. Therefore I had to adapt the holders in the 3D-print:
Image

Furthermore - as my new "gearstick" is too wide - I had to put a little ring with a small opening, so the positioning would be roughly the same from whichever direction I position:
Image

Image

Next step was the purchase of a W211 Cruise Control stick; the advantage was the non-click operation up/down/back/forward and the "limiter"-function. After dismantling the stick, disabling the click-functioin of the limiter and finding out the circuit of it, it was connected to the microcontroller as well:
Image

Next step is to rewire the stuff properly, enhance the software for all possible error-cases and build a proper case for the electronics. Regarding the cruise control stick I either just put the "original" gear-level-handle over it or design a proper new one with marks on it (what is what) ... I'll see.

Regards
Thomas
---------------------------------------------------------------
1967 W111 250SE Cabriolet, horizon blue
1973 W115 220D 5.0 Pick-Up Argentina, work in progress 2017/18
1986 R107 500SL, arctic white, the midlife crisis viagra replacement
2007 R171 SLK350, calcit white
2008 S211 E63T, calcit white, sleeper
User avatar
T-Modell
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