190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

1982-1993 :180E, 190E, 190E 2.3, 190E 2.6, 190D 2.2, 190D 2.5, 190D 2.5 T
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Digger11
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190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Digger11 » Wed 31 May, 2017 7:08 pm

Hi,
I am guessing either battery or alternator.

Lights got duller and duller for about 15 minutes as I was driving and then it just stopped.

Any source for a recon. Alternator in Melbourne ? I can fit myself to save $'s

thanks

Digger

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AMG
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by AMG » Wed 31 May, 2017 7:59 pm

Take yours out and have it refurbed.

Don't get an exchange unit - they aren't the same.

Not a lot to them, should not be expensive either.

Brushes, slip ring, bearings, and a cleanup.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Tony From West Oz » Wed 31 May, 2017 10:32 pm

I don't know if the 190E has the same regulator arrangement as the W123, but for the W123 you can purchase a regulator which just screws into the back of the alternator. It includes new brushes and is just a 10 minute hob to swap out (on a W123).
Might be the cheapest repair you ever do. Much cheaper than paynig an auto sparky hundreds to do it for you.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

Digger11
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Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 18 Aug, 2016 6:19 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Melbourne

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Digger11 » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 9:05 am

Thanks Tony and AMG - kind of surprised that the alternator went so early - car has only done 90,000 easy kms.

Will try the regulator and brushes route - putting in a new battery first as existing is greater than 5 years old - don't think will fix the problem though.

Forum sponsor for the regulator and brushes ? Are they still active ?

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AMG
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by AMG » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 10:11 am

Auto sparky / local auto elec parts store / ashdown ingram for reg-rec. get a made in germany one not the chinese crap or you'll be at it again in 12 months.

Forum sponsor can sell you a complete alternator if you need.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.

Digger11
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Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 18 Aug, 2016 6:19 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Melbourne

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Digger11 » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 8:43 pm

Sparesbox had a Bosch regulator for $75 so bought that. Replaced battery as was 10 years old (big battery for a small car) but still only 12.6v.
Looks like i can replace new alternator regulator without removing the alternator , from below. Anyone alse tried this ?

Cheers Digger

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Tony From West Oz » Thu 01 Jun, 2017 11:47 pm

Digger11, yes, I have replaced the alternator regulator with the alternator in the car (on a W123 300D). A bit awkward getting light and my head to where I could see (glasses on too) and do the job. Much easier than R&R alternator though.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

Digger11
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Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 18 Aug, 2016 6:19 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Melbourne

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Digger11 » Fri 02 Jun, 2017 2:04 pm

Thanks Tone, I'll give it a go on the weekend, looks easier to get to from underneath so I'll pull out the ramps and have a crack.

merc-304
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by merc-304 » Fri 02 Jun, 2017 2:51 pm

Digger dont forget to disconnect Neg battery terminal before you start
380 SEC

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Tony From West Oz » Fri 02 Jun, 2017 4:43 pm

merc-304 wrote:Digger dont forget to disconnect Neg battery terminal before you start
Good point!
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

merc-304
250s
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat 09 Jul, 2016 3:55 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: North Coast NSW

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by merc-304 » Fri 02 Jun, 2017 5:29 pm

And if room is not to limited ....clean the contacts that the new reg touch inside alternator.
380 SEC

Digger11
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Posts: 20
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Model you own: w201
Location: Melbourne

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Digger11 » Fri 02 Jun, 2017 6:37 pm

Cheers, both good tips. I am fairly handy around cars, but still appreciate your tips.
I did a course on rebuilding DC motors many years ago that included under cutting the commutator with a cutoff hacksaw blade if I remember right as well as polishing it up with a piece of emery paper I think.
But a long time ago .
At 90,000 kms I will stick to just replacing the regulator/ brushes and trying to see if the contacts are smooth.

Cheers
Digger

Digger11
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Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 18 Aug, 2016 6:19 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Melbourne

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Digger11 » Sun 04 Jun, 2017 5:11 pm

IMG_20170604_154806s2.jpg
IMG_20170604_154750s2.jpg
Definitely BER. couldn't find a 1 197 311 023 in Aus, so bought a 1 197 311 028. Not sure on the difference, but a post on the UK 190E forum seems to think will work.

If like most Merc parts, the last number is often just sign of an update over the last 27 years.

Do you use an elastic band to hold the brushes in when inserting into the Alternator ?

thanks

Digger11
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AMG
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by AMG » Sun 04 Jun, 2017 5:51 pm

If it is a 12V 28mm slip ring n1 / k1 then it will work, but I don't have any x-ref for the max amp output.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.

User avatar
Tony From West Oz
OZBENZ moderator
Posts: 3082
Joined: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 10:04 pm
Model you own: w202
Location: Bedfordale WA

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Tony From West Oz » Sun 04 Jun, 2017 9:33 pm

Do you use an elastic band to hold the brushes in when inserting into the Alternator ?

thanks

Digger11
No, there is plenty of room for them to wiggle into place.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

Digger11
B Class
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu 18 Aug, 2016 6:19 pm
Model you own: w201
Location: Melbourne

Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by Digger11 » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 12:07 am

Just to close of the thread, fitted new voltage regulator and 14.2v of charging power.
Far cheaper than a new alternator, and on my 190E 2.3 was easy to reach from the top, 4 bolts and easy.

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AMG
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Re: 190E 2.3 Lights dulled then it stopped

Post by AMG » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 9:06 pm

Good stuff. Keep an eye on it over the next few weeks, just to make sure the brushes are wearing evenly - looking back at the old pic one brush was badly worn while the other wasn't, it's a sign that there could be shorting in the main winding or the diodes on one of the windings went kaboom.

sounds like the new reg rec fixed the issue, but keep an eye on nonetheless, if your battery is still floating around 13.8 fter a few weeks then it's pretty much a given that all is ok.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.

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