W140 steering wheel wobble

If you have a non model specific technical question or some general MB related content, post it here!
Users are requested to Search through relevant topics using the "Search" function, before posting here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Tue 14 Apr, 2015 6:14 pm

Hi guys,
Nelson the W140 has occasionally a steering wheel wobble. The only time is is distinctive is after you given is a lot of right foot out of or around a 90 degree corner you get some left to right vibration back through the steering wheel when you back off.
It almost like a cycling effect where you generate all this inertia and it comes back through the wheel.
I've recently replaced the lower control arms, lower ball joints and steering damper so I don't think they're the issue.
Could it be flex discs or a steering coupler issue perhaps?
The only other time you get anything else back through the wheel, only slightly, is between 90-100kmh. Any slower or faster there's nothing.

Regards,

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

User avatar
Bartman4800
300 SLR
Posts: 1824
Joined: Fri 10 Oct, 2008 12:10 am
Model you own: w111
Location: Perth WA

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 14 Apr, 2015 7:00 pm

Could it be the body flexing when you occasionally loose/regain grip on one wheel?
1963 220 Sb Sedan "Kermit" (Australian Assembly)
1960 220 Sb Sedan "Zum Schlachten" (Early German Assembly, with a torsion bar spring for the bonnet) - Stored in Country WA
1981 Subaru Brumby 1.8 with Weber and 5-speed box "little utie" - Sold to another enthusiast!
2006 Ford Focus "daily driver"
2002 VW Passat V6 30V Station Wagon (SOLD - This car into a money pit)
2011 Kia Sportage "Missus commuter Bus"
2002 Mitsubishi Rosa Bus (converting it to a motor home)

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Tue 14 Apr, 2015 8:40 pm

With an ASD diff and ASR there is no loss of traction. The body flex on on W140 I would believe to be near zero. The wobble seems to be irregular rather than constant.

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

User avatar
Ivanerrol
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 5767
Joined: Sat 12 May, 2007 3:21 pm
Model you own: w204
Location: Melbourne

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Ivanerrol » Tue 14 Apr, 2015 11:52 pm

I had all sorts of steering anomalies with my W140.
It turned out it was the tyres.
No body flex on the "monster" Benz's
W211 - E240
W204 - C280
W210 - E240
Departed
W202 - C200, C180, C180
W126 - 380SE , 380SE (Ex SA Import), 560SEL
W124 - 300e, 260e (ex Japan)
W111 220s (Indonesia) 4 speed manual column shift
W123 230
W116 450SEL
W140 420SEL
W210 E240
W209 CLK 240
W201 190e 2.6 (ex U.K.)

User avatar
Tony From West Oz
OZBENZ moderator
Posts: 3188
Joined: Mon 20 Jun, 2005 10:04 pm
Model you own: w202
Location: Bedfordale WA

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Tony From West Oz » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 1:08 am

Have you checked wheel balancing. I have had an unusual wobble at specific speeds, due to a slight wheel imbalance and slight difference in rolling diameter. The wobble would come and go at 100 km/h, but was not noticeable at any other speed.
That would be my starting point.

Tony
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (SOLD)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 9:35 am

I had the wheels balance and front end aligned when the control arms were done. May just the driveline on hoist to look for any anomaly.

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

redlaser
Finnie
Posts: 294
Joined: Tue 02 Jun, 2009 5:38 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: Narre warren Melbourne

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by redlaser » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 12:03 pm

I had the exact same problem with my w126...on occassion the vibration was violent and kicked in at about 90K speed....turned out the local garage had used oversize brakepads (Iwas trying to save a quid!) and didn't tell me!...using the correct pads solved the prob.

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 4857
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 2:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by CraigB » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 4:25 pm

Are they brand new tyres Giles? So often tyres can be the source of all sorts of noises and vibrations. You would have some known quantity wheels and tyres to temporarily stick on and see if it feels any different? I don't drive my cars enough so often i get that sort of thing after a car sits but after a long run and tyres become round again it comes good. But i know you are using yours. Also i think some tyres will settle more than others.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Wed 15 Apr, 2015 9:28 pm

The tyres, Bridgestone Potenzas, are not new but they are pretty fresh. It's not like the wheel wobble around 90kmh is serious, I can just notice it.

The "torque wobble" on the other hand feels pretty drastic. Do you think I can replicate it, not a chance, not even on the same corner.

My thoughts now lay with the ASR has had some effect on the braking, perhaps.

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

User avatar
kimrh
Große
Posts: 1499
Joined: Tue 05 Jan, 2010 3:18 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: Perth WA

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by kimrh » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 1:37 am

Giles it is your knock-off Chinese made rims.
Tony Tatasciore (Owner of Auto Sales & Service in Guthrie St, Osborne Park) has the exact same knock-off rims on his W140 and has had no end of problem with vibration at the same speed.
He suspected the rims and between him and his mate at the tyre shop have concluded there is nothing your can do about it despite repeated attempts at re-balancing them.
Steve (StreekG) had the exact same problem with his knock-off 18" AMG replica rims on his SEC before he ditched them and i too had the same problem a few yrs ago now with those knock-off Chinese made AMG replica rims which i had to get rid of as well. Once swapped out the problem goes away.
If you still have your original MB rims swap them back in and see if the problem goes away (i bet it does!!)
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 9:35 am

I will change the wheels and tyres to an alternative.

I'm not convinced this is the issue though as the wobble at speed in barely there and the severe issue has only happened a few twice under extreme acceleration out of a 90deg corner.

As I'm using the car a s a daily it's not like it's sitting for extended periods of time.

Cheers guys.
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

CraigB
OZBENZ Admin
Posts: 4857
Joined: Thu 23 Jun, 2005 2:18 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Hawthorndene (Adelaide)

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by CraigB » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:15 am

That's a bit scary if the rims are doing that. I see your point Giles, but especially based on what Kim has said, if you have another set of wheels there you can just bolt up, its a very easy part of the diagnosis process rather than pulling apart all sorts of things and replacing them. I know some tyres had shifting balance problems from new - I had a triumph spitfire with Olympic tyres, spent heaps trying to solve the problem and then a place convinced me to put some pirellis on it and it solved the problem. And sometimes you see old tyres with really weird wear patterns that surely can only come about from the tyre flexing itself in places. But what Kim is suggesting I guess is that under that force the rim is flexing a little in part of it and that imbalance is enough to trigger the wobble. Perhaps it is not consistent because it needs just that amount of force to start it up and set it going?

Keeping an open mind though and thinking out loud, I am having trouble picturing the brakes in the centre of the hub setting up something violent like that, easier for me to picture it is something on the more outer extremities having that leverage to set up that sort of thing. And does the ASR work on all wheels or just the rear? If it is steering then that's not it. I dont think it was ESP time yet that was all 4 wheels.

And if it was something steering related, where play in the system was allowing a jolt of some sort to trigger a vibration/wobble, then I would think it has to be that side of the steering box and not the coupler and you would feel that as play - sounds like all that is tight and checked though.

Interested to see if the wheels make a difference. Did it do it once a week say...... the problem is knowing how long to wait and if you have replicated the circumstances that you don't exactly know what they are! I suppose if you cycle wheels on it for decent periods it will eventually become clear.
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 1:40 pm

Thanks Craig.

ASR is applied to rear breaking only and is integrated into the ABS so your guess is as good as mine whether or not it maybe have any effect.

I'll trial some different wheels and tyres, hey I really enjoy lift this beast off the ground. The more I think about the acceleration wobble the more I come back to thinking it's more than likely a rebounding effect from the steering damper.

Or maybe it's that a W140 has so many things going on at once it's senses are working overtime and when you push it hard it cracks a wobble. Damn nice car to drive when it doesn't gets scary when it does it though. Feels like your re-entering the earths atmosphere for a few seconds.

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 8044
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Mercmad » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 10:48 pm

Sounds like something to do with the powersteer . I would say that ECU which affects traction control and/or ABS is feeding a dud signal to the powersteer. As the speed increases the powersteer is fed signals from the ADS and ABS so it lightens or stiffens according to conditions,.speed,load on engine etc . if there is a fualt,it will be made apparent by the steering giving odd sensations. Start by looking at the gasket on the reservoir to make sure it isn't leaking...If that isd OK,check the actuator valve on the steering box . it works like a restrictor.. if that is OK ... set fire to the car.



:laughing6: :laughing6:

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Thu 16 Apr, 2015 11:18 pm

Mercmad wrote:Sounds like something to do with the powersteer . I would say that ECU which affects traction control and/or ABS is feeding a dud signal to the powersteer. As the speed increases the powersteer is fed signals from the ADS and ABS so it lightens or stiffens according to conditions,.speed,load on engine etc . if there is a fualt,it will be made apparent by the steering giving odd sensations. Start by looking at the gasket on the reservoir to make sure it isn't leaking...If that isd OK,check the actuator valve on the steering box . it works like a restrictor.. if that is OK ... set fire to the car.



:laughing6: :laughing6:
Now we're making progress. I've had the reservoir gasket replaced as there was a leak when I collected the car. I'll check the actuator valve.

This sounds more feasible as the wobble is induced rather than coming from anything bolted on.

Cheers Ron for the input. I'm currently working on a ASR defeat switch which may well delete the dud signal all together.

Then I can set fire to the car from the rear tyres.

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Fri 08 May, 2015 1:13 pm

Three weeks down the track there has been no reoccurrence, even with Nelson now having had an ECU chip upgrade.

My conclusion is he never been pushed that hard and he got spooked, I think he had one of those 'someone walked over my grave moments." Now he's got used to it he knows what to do.

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

User avatar
Mercmad
Mercedes Demigod
Posts: 8044
Joined: Sun 11 Sep, 2005 9:01 pm
Model you own: w109
Location: Brissy
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Mercmad » Fri 08 May, 2015 4:17 pm

i guess the best thing is to forget it happened .Just a slight glitch in the code.....or something. :computer:

User avatar
Giles
300 SL Gullwing
Posts: 3022
Joined: Mon 10 Nov, 2008 3:14 pm
Model you own: I own multiple different models
Location: Australind W.A.
Contact:

Re: W140 steering wheel wobble

Post by Giles » Fri 08 May, 2015 4:22 pm

Mercmad wrote:i guess the best thing is to forget it happened .Just a slight glitch in the code.....or something. :computer:
What happened?

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

burscon
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun 18 Feb, 2018 7:43 pm
Model you own: w126
Region: Victoria
Location: Australia

Re: W126 steering wheel wobble

Post by burscon » Thu 22 Feb, 2018 3:45 pm

Had intermittent vibration at steering wheel between 80 and 100+ kph on w126
. Thought it was tyre balance but when took front wheels to be re-balanced, tyre place found one rim (left hand front) was about 5mm out of true. Swapped tyre to spare rim (which ran true) had tyre balanced and problem vanished. (Out of true rim now sits in spare wheel well).

Post Reply

Return to “General Mercedes-Benz related.”